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tritarian
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Posted - 2008.04.10 09:38:00 -
[1]
I noticed that the only missile defense available was defender missiles loaded into launchers.
What would be the possibility of getting a "Defender" class laser crystal, or projectile ammo, or Hybrid ammo?
I dare suggest that mounting this "Defender" ammo be limited to pulse lasers/auto cannon/or blasters.
For the simple fact that in a missile defense situation you want a rapid fire and fast target tracking ability. I Just think that all players could benefit from having the option of a better Defensive mixes. Especially helping the multitude of ships that do not have launcher hard-points. This could also have its own skill to improve effect of these new systems and/or allow use of larger versions of them.
Defender weapon(s)
Give a minor per level bonus to damage or cycling time, like 2% or 3%.
Level 1: allows use of small defender ammo
Level 3: allows use of medium defender ammo
Level 5: allows use of large defender ammo
Or this way, and go along with the current defender missile model:
Energy Missile Defender,or,Hybrid Missile Defender,or,Projectile Missile Defender
Skill with Energy/Hybrid/Projectile based anti-missile systems.
Special: 5% bonus to Cycle time for turrets loaded with defender Charge group per skill level.
In this example it is split into 3 different skills keeping with faction specific weapon/ship fittings.
Either example I like the requirement of having to skill it up to use the bigger charge sizes.
Level 1 for small
Level 3 for Medium
Level 5 for large
Then you could also make a Capital Defender system books of the same type(s) as used above.
Energy/Hybrid/Projectile Defender Level 5 as a prerequisite, and maybe a handful of other gunnery skills as do the normal capital weapon systems.
For those getting ready to say, "The Caldari get their missile boats nerfed because of this."
Think about it for a sec, this would be useful to you too for your own defense.
Besides if someone mounts these ammo types into their turrets, that means less turrets that can/will hurt you.
Expanding on this idea a little, how about a command type ship.... The missile Intercepter aka an AEGIS defense platform.
Mainly intended to safe guard stations, sieged dreadnoughts, or any slow moving or stationary target from missile/torpedo attack. This could also require an sensor link with the ship to be defended to work properly
Looking around I have not noticed this so please correct me if I am wrong.
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Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
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Posted - 2008.04.10 09:41:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 10/04/2008 09:44:09
Nerfs missiles too much IMO. I know you pointed out how it reduces the tank of the ship fitting these crystals/charges, but few ships have more than four launchers, and many ships have more than four total hardpoints. Those ships could just fit four of their hardpoints with defender weapons, and use their remaining weapons to deal damage to the opponent who has exactly zero DPS. Even if they can tank the damage of one gun... I mean is that really the direction we want to take PvP?
Even ships with mixed weapon/missile setups are going to have their DPS reduced by an extreme margin, and mixed-hardpoint ships don't usually have that good of DPS to begin with, especially if their missiles aren't ever hitting.
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Mithfindel
Argent Group
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Posted - 2008.04.10 09:48:00 -
[3]
If I am correct, at the moment defenders work against missiles fired at you. I'd rather see an Area Defense Missile variant of the current Point Defense Defenders (F.O.F. Defender Missile, fires at all warheads perceived hostile as per standings or general blinky-redness in local).
With limited-enough range, this still wouldn't provide a complete shield against missile assaults, would just require tactics (fire enough to saturate the defenses, or against larger fleets fire from all sides to find the blind spot in missile defense). And this brings us back to my favorite weapon in EVE, namely BIG GUNS which pretty much ignore defenders.
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tritarian
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Posted - 2008.04.10 10:10:00 -
[4]
I am trying to suggest more defense options for ships that do not have ANY missile turrets in the first place. 
Secondly if your skilled with missiles as a primary weapon, you most likely have missiles that can outrun most ships with afterburners anyway, so therefore they can plow through the "Defense net" of guns. IMO
I like the idea of the F.O.F. Defender missile, use it in the AGEIS system as my first post, and like in yours short range, and good speed. seems like a favorable thing to ask for....
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Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
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Posted - 2008.04.10 10:13:00 -
[5]
Missile ships rarely have the dps of gunships though. What they have is alpha strike. Stealth bombers are a good example of this. They have, with very good skills, the ability to do maybe 200 DPS... but they have an alpha strike of over 2000 damage. So in other words the principle behind missile ships is to take out large amounts of your opponents HP all at once, but giving them more time to repair between volleys, as opposed to gunships which do a steady stream of damage. Defender missiles are meant for reducing the effect of missile ship alpha damage. I really don't think it's balanced to nerf missile ship DPS any further.
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tritarian
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Posted - 2008.04.10 10:24:00 -
[6]
Edited by: tritarian on 10/04/2008 10:24:25
 Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Missile ships rarely have the dps of gunships though. What they have is alpha strike. Stealth bombers are a good example of this. They have, with very good skills, the ability to do maybe 200 DPS... but they have an alpha strike of over 2000 damage. So in other words the principle behind missile ships is to take out large amounts of your opponents HP all at once, but giving them more time to repair between volleys, as opposed to gunships which do a steady stream of damage. Defender missiles are meant for reducing the effect of missile ship alpha damage. I really don't think it's balanced to nerf missile ship DPS any further.
Anyone who has ever fitted an raven or other missile boat can tell you this....
You can totally out gun a ship with missiles. "The shortest road to high-firepower"
But I Digress, I am trying to spark some discussion on different ship fits, and give the ability to defend against missiles without having to have missile turrets in the first place. I am not trying neuter missile boats, or get into a flame war.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2008.04.10 10:50:00 -
[7]
One idea about missile defense would be a midslot module, call it "Proximity Detonation Stimulator", that causes missiles to explode prematurely and less focused, thus effectively increasing explosion radius and decreasing explosion velocity. Can be scripted to be specialized in either of the stats.
This would be somewhere in line with tracking disruptors or the (weaker) opposite of target painters. Active module, only works for one self.
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Ideas for:
Mining
Clouds
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Norb Xenthios
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Posted - 2008.04.10 13:14:00 -
[8]
How many people that you know use defender missiles?
Something does need done. Perhaps instead of wasting our missile high slot make a totally separate anti missile laser defense system to be trained as it's own skill line and fitted in any high slot. You could make it about same effectiveness as defenders. Missile users wouldn't be taking it twice as bad then. We have to give up a launcher to use them and they suck too. Lose lose situation.
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Albaluna74
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Posted - 2008.04.10 13:53:00 -
[9]
want an uberdefence against missiles? it's called speed.
base exp vel torp 250m/s
base exp vel cruise 500m/s
base exp vel ham 750m/s
base exp vel heavy 750m/s
u donĘt need to waste any mid/high slot to defend yourself from missiles.
u need just to use mwd to be immune to missiles. It's easy and alrdy available.
But unless u cant go faster than 1500m/s still same frigates will be able to hurt you with same rockets/light missiles... this is disappointing and must be fixed asap.
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Suitonia
Gallente
interimo
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Posted - 2008.04.10 14:03:00 -
[10]
Personally I'd like to see a mid-slot counter for missles, similar to tracking disruptors. A module that could reduce the velocity/flight time of missles on the ship using them.
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I've always wondered about those Vagabond pilots... |
Thera Romana
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Posted - 2008.04.10 14:20:00 -
[11]
Maybe I am just not understanding the issue, just about everyship has at least one missle slot.
The anti-missle is defenders, If your in a non missle specific ship, that one or 2 missle slots is so that you can mount launchers for defender missles. Missle ships need only carry the ammo.
Missle ships are current the only ships that loose dps capability by using defenders. every one else for the most part can still have all thier turrets and defender missles. Minus those few ships that are maxed turrets, which by the way tend to have a rep or boost bonus to thier tank.
This is all fairly well taken care of, you just have to make the choice when outfiting your ship.
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tritarian
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Posted - 2008.04.12 03:49:00 -
[12]
I am seeing if my idea of an non-missile based missile defense system would be welcome of just flamed, with some thoughts and opinions on the subject. Their are alot of ships in the eve universe that do not have missile turret ability. Being an Amaar laser monkey I am trying to see if a missile defense option for a Armageddon, for example, would work or would it just be a another lost idea that goes nowhere. |
Rook Highwind
Miners-R-us
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Posted - 2008.04.12 13:49:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Rook Highwind on 12/04/2008 13:50:04
In-EVE Goalkeeper analog for the massive win. Not much need to worry about them being overpowered, just make hit chance inversely proportional to missile velocity.
/signed, if you hadn't worked it out. It's rather annoying when you can't fit defenders due to a lack of turret slots.
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Commander 598
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.12 18:26:00 -
[14]
Point defense. You're looking for a dedicated point defense system like that found on ships that are intelligently designed (Most in EVE are not), anyone that's been watching Galactica or has seen footage of a carrier group in WW2 fighting off an aerial assault should know quite well what the words "Point defense" mean.
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Altho Regilian
Caldari
Port Royal Independent Kontractors
Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.04.14 15:10:00 -
[15]
One of the main problems with your missile defense ideas is that missiles are vastly underpowered as is. The whole idea behind the missiles was that they were supposed to hit consistently for lower damage than guns. The guns would have higher damage but a chance to miss and the approximate DPS would balance itself out. If you were a gun user you could put on a rocket launcher with defender missiles (yes, you can put defender missiles into a rocket launcher... 10 to be exact) then they can already cut some of the damage caused by the missiles. You can click the link to read my thread as to the current problems and proposed solutions to missiles below. Please read the entire thread as different ideas and solutions/possibilities are added later on.
My Proposed Solutions to make Caldari more PVP viable
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Cadien Cybernetics
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Posted - 2008.04.14 15:29:00 -
[16]
At the moment people complain about missiles being a poor choice for PvP.
Therefore additional defence would be a bad idea right now.
I understand this might be aimed at PvE, but it would have consequences for PvP, too, unless someone finds an appropriate PvE only solution.
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- Balance is power, guard it well -
Nothing spells 'incompetence' or 'don't take me serious' like 'nerf'
Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam |
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