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aeoluse	Posted - 2008.04.10 12:51:00 - [1] Just seen a thread about a 1v1 of a Mega and Rokh. Now as a missile and shield specced player I was wondering which out of the AC Mael and Blaster Rokh had superior performance. As I have significantly more sp in shield tanking than armour tanking so I don't want to start training armour tanking just yet so please don't say train for a Mega or something like that, also I don't have much in the way of skill points in gunnery so training up for T2 hybrids or projectiles is going to take about the same time. I was just wondering which worked better as a close range boat. I won't be flying solo so tackling won't matter that much and I don't live in 0.0. Also if you could post setups so I know what I am heading towards it would be great. Thanks.
Gnosis19 Grave Diggers Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.10 13:13:00 - [2] Being a Mael pilot, I would have to side with the mael plus Fleet EMP with 3 gyros 1 tracking enhancer and a full rack of 800 II's will chew through a rokh. \|Gnosis\|
Endless Subversion Blood Corsair's Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.04.10 13:16:00 - [3] I'd suggest a torp raven. Better dmg at better ranges, buffer tanked with utility highs, getting good torp skills will take a whole lot less time than getting good large gunnery skills. Self Destruct & LogOffs
Gnosis19 Grave Diggers Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.10 13:24:00 - [4] Originally by: Endless Subversion I'd suggest a torp raven. Better dmg at better ranges, buffer tanked with utility highs, getting good torp skills will take a whole lot less time than getting good large gunnery skills. or this :) \|Gnosis\|
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge XIII Legio	Posted - 2008.04.10 13:25:00 - [5] When you say you don't have much in gunnery skillpoints - does that include the support skills? Rapid firing, surgicial strike, gunnery, trajectory analysis, sharpshooting, controlled bursts, and so on? I would get all of those to IV and V before considering a BS. That said, a BS with a resist bonus has a better tank than a ship with a boost bonus. This is especially true if you have friends that can remote rep you (and allows the flexibility to have a HP buffer tank as opposed to an active tank). Advantage Rokh. However, you'll be more cap stable with an active tank (cap injected) Maelstrom, but you'll have less effective hitpoints. Advantage Maelstrom. Damage wise you can setup both pretty close to each other (>1000 dps with drones). Maelstrom can have 2 flights of medium drones (set of ecm and a set of combat), whereas the rokh can only use 1 flight of medium drones. Slight advantage Maelstrom. If you're doing small gang work, the Maelstrom might be a better choice. When going for larger groups the Rokh will serve you better. __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
ApaKaka Lone Starr Corporation HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.04.10 13:53:00 - [6] Originally by: Endless Subversion I'd suggest a torp raven. Better dmg at better ranges, buffer tanked with utility highs, getting good torp skills will take a whole lot less time than getting good large gunnery skills. I can vouch for this. I've fought buffer tanked T2 torp ravens and they are goddamn insane in the DPS. There's no chance any other T1 BS can bring down one of these in 1-v-1 situation imo unless you start at range +20k or manage to get out to 20k+ with your mael - which has a ~30kish range on ACs with the range rigs and Rep fleet EMP L and more than 40k range with Barrage. The problem though is getting out beyond this range once you notice the other guy has those goddamn evil torps without dying first.
Mysteriax Eve University	Posted - 2008.04.10 14:01:00 - [7] Originally by: ApaKaka I can vouch for this. I've fought buffer tanked T2 torp ravens and they are goddamn insane in the DPS. There's no chance any other T1 BS can bring down one of these in 1-v-1 situation imo unless you start at range +20k or manage to get out to 20k+ with your mael - which has a ~30kish range on ACs with the range rigs and Rep fleet EMP L and more than 40k range with Barrage. The problem though is getting out beyond this range once you notice the other guy has those goddamn evil torps without dying first. Nanophoon might work? Also a plated phoon can dish out insane DPS, more then the raven atleast
aeoluse	Posted - 2008.04.10 14:01:00 - [8] I can fly a T2 Torp Raven already, what I really want is a change. I have low sp in gunnery including support skills, but I am looking for a new challenge, I am bored of Ravens and can already fly an ECM Scorp well so I am looking to train up for something new. I know that getting the support skills in gunnery is going to take awhile, I am not looking to fly it any time soon! I don't expect to be in a gang with much remote rep support and I am in favour of active over buffer tanks. Though I do fly a Drake... I think I will have to go with Gnosis19 and Omarvelous and look at training for the Mael, as most of the gang work will be small gangs. Thanks. Time to look for an AC Mael fit...
Gnosis19 Grave Diggers Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.10 14:13:00 - [9] Here is what I use Maelstrom Highs: Full rack of 800's II with Fleet EMP and Barrage Mids: 2 Tech II amp, 1 Tech II or Dread XL Booster, 2 Tech II Invul's, Tech II Injector Lows: *If you opt for the Tech II XL booster you will most likely need a cpu upgrade which is another selling point for the Dread booster. 3 Gyros II 1 Tracking Enhancer II (drops this for cpu upgrade) 1 DC II Rigs: 1 EM 1 Thermal and 1 field extender Note: You should also invest in atleast a Low Grade Crystal set plus get your Combat Booster skills up. For me using a standard blue pill i get around 2500 boosted ever 4 sec with dread or every 5 sec with Tech II XL my 2cents \|Gnosis\|
Iteken Hotori Minmatar Eve Defence Force Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.10 14:24:00 - [10] Realistically it'll be a close run thing. Noth are shield tankers so yo are a little gimped to start with, but i simply LOVE the maelstrom for it's Gatebusting role - first raised to me by the salty old legent Scots Crusader. It's a minmatar ship, so gonna be pretty skill intensive but worth every penny, and improves exponentially with boosters / t2 implants. My current setup: 8x 800MM AC II (RF Emp or Hail) 100mn MWD II, DG X-Large Shield Booster. DG Shield Boost Amp, 2x Inv Field II, Heavy Cap Bosoter II (800 charges) 3x Gyro II, DC II, Tracking Comp. em rig, therm rig, sheild amount rig medium ECM Drones Low-Grade Crystals (not tried boosters - they good?) easy 1k dps It tanks a horrendous amount of damage for about 3 mins (when you run out of cap boosters) and when combines with logistics ships / tacklers it's prety much indestructible :) It would eat a rokh alive tbh, as Rokh is bonused for tanking / range sniping rather than close range gank. I'd sugest with a bit of judicous bumping it'd kill 2+ You'll need pretty much perfect cap skilsl to get the most out of the tank, and lots and lots of gunenry - at 6.8mil i feel i'm getting close to getting the most out of it. ps. Contrary to popular opinion, you CAN stop the rokh.
Trefnis Minmatar R.U.S.T. Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.10 14:24:00 - [11] I have never flown rokh just mael and its best (if not the only) point blank defence/shoot ship that matari have. forget tackling and mwd, just max tank and injector, warp to tackler and shoot. over 1100 dps with good skills and hail loaded, and yes i do use hail (barrage in cargo). but as you said you are low on sp and personally i would sugest to go for rokh as you have bs skill already and instead of going matari train bs V and blasters as in the future you might want to get rails for rokh or eagle anyway. you just have to know that caldari are not solo race, while matari...
aeoluse	Posted - 2008.04.10 14:36:00 - [12] Originally by: Trefnis I have never flown rokh just mael and its best (if not the only) point blank defence/shoot ship that matari have. forget tackling and mwd, just max tank and injector, warp to tackler and shoot. over 1100 dps with good skills and hail loaded, and yes i do use hail (barrage in cargo). but as you said you are low on sp and personally i would sugest to go for rokh as you have bs skill already and instead of going matari train bs V and blasters as in the future you might want to get rails for rokh or eagle anyway. you just have to know that caldari are not solo race, while matari... I'm not low on sp, just sp in gunnery. I'm in no hurry to get into either its more just something for the future to train for. I think I am going for the Mael. A major draw back of the Rokh is that it looks like a train
Barzam School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.04.10 14:40:00 - [13] Originally by: aeoluse I'm not low on sp, just sp in gunnery. I'm in no hurry to get into either its more just something for the future to train for. I think I am going for the Mael. A major draw back of the Rokh is that it looks like a train Just be aware that the Mael won't really shine until you have about 4 million SP in gunnery trained (Large AC Spec IV, all supportskills at V or IV) as well as Minmatar BS V But they're definetly not useless skills, so I would go for it - it will just take some months before you will see the sexyness of the ship though
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge XIII Legio	Posted - 2008.04.10 14:44:00 - [14] Originally by: aeoluse ...A major draw back of the Rokh is that it looks like a train Correction - it looks like a bus that flies in space. Hence I named mine Greyhound Express. I know you're looking at things from a short range perspective, but the Rokh has some steller range that the Maelstrom lacks. You have the versatility to go with an ECCM sniper fit, and kill hostile ECM ships. __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
Iteken Hotori Minmatar Eve Defence Force Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.10 14:48:00 - [15] Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: aeoluse ...A major draw back of the Rokh is that it looks like a train Correction - it looks like a bus that flies in space. Hence I named mine Greyhound Express. I know you're looking at things from a short range perspective, but the Rokh has some steller range that the Maelstrom lacks. You have the versatility to go with an ECCM sniper fit, and kill hostile ECM ships. 200km with tremmor L 45km with barrage L 's alright innit?
aeoluse	Posted - 2008.04.10 14:58:00 - [16] Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: aeoluse ...A major draw back of the Rokh is that it looks like a train Correction - it looks like a bus that flies in space. Hence I named mine Greyhound Express. I know you're looking at things from a short range perspective, but the Rokh has some steller range that the Maelstrom lacks. You have the versatility to go with an ECCM sniper fit, and kill hostile ECM ships. Yeah short range is what I want, I don't want to snipe and I figure that if I'm gonna get into big fleet battles I'd rather spend a little bit more time and train armour tanking up and fly the much cheaper Tempest. But I will definitely keep it in mind...
aeoluse	Posted - 2008.04.10 15:01:00 - [17] Originally by: Barzam Originally by: aeoluse I'm not low on sp, just sp in gunnery. I'm in no hurry to get into either its more just something for the future to train for. I think I am going for the Mael. A major draw back of the Rokh is that it looks like a train Just be aware that the Mael won't really shine until you have about 4 million SP in gunnery trained (Large AC Spec IV, all supportskills at V or IV) as well as Minmatar BS V But they're definetly not useless skills, so I would go for it - it will just take some months before you will see the sexyness of the ship though I don't plan on using it until I have really good support in gunnery, I can fly a Torp Raven or a Scorp till then. And I'm gonna save Minmatar BS V for when I go on holiday in the summer.
Barzam School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.04.10 15:05:00 - [18] Originally by: aeoluse I don't plan on using it until I have really good support in gunnery, I can fly a Torp Raven or a Scorp till then. And I'm gonna save Minmatar BS V for when I go on holiday in the summer. Of course I'm assuming you have all the relevant shield support skills trained, because those are definately needed. And crystal set really really makes it sexy, a low-grade one will suffice :) It will tank like a mofo. Also droneskills to deliver Ogre II damage is preferrable (that or remote shield rep drones for gang) For rigging, I go with 2 range rigs, and one operational solidifier. Gives you +40k range with AC's. In total that should net you over 1000 DPS, and tanking like 1400-1500 dps continually cap-injected for over 3 minutes. Switch to Rep.Fleet EMP ammo or Hail L and you're going to do serious damage (at less range) A right monster.
Alowishus mUfFiN fAcToRy Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.04.10 15:06:00 - [19] My Maelstrom is disgusting. Insane. If you're in a Rokh or a Raven don't even bother shooting back, it'd be pointless. Just sit there while I kill you. Join The Muffin Factory
Eneela M	Posted - 2008.04.10 15:31:00 - [20] Originally by: Alowishus My Maelstrom is disgusting. Insane. If you're in a Rokh or a Raven don't even bother shooting back, it'd be pointless. Just sit there while I kill you. dreamland! The raven has more potential DPS than a mael, and the rokh is not far behind. With equal SP players it would be a very close fight.
Alowishus mUfFiN fAcToRy Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.04.10 15:45:00 - [21] I don't care how much DPS the Raven does, I can tank the DPS of any Raven for quite some time, and if it's a full DPS Raven it probably doesn't have the buffer/tank to withstand my damage for as long as I can withstand his. It's a balance. Most battles between a Maelstrom and a Raven could go either way but I have a few tricks up my sleeve and A LOT of ISK invested. Don't get me wrong, I also fly a Raven as well, and I love it too. Realistically I don't setup for 1v1 (no tackle gear) because I'm never alone. But if a Raven pilot did catch me alone I bet I could make him warp out, unless he had EWAR or severely outspent me. Join The Muffin Factory
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.04.10 15:47:00 - [22] Originally by: ApaKaka Originally by: Endless Subversion I'd suggest a torp raven. Better dmg at better ranges, buffer tanked with utility highs, getting good torp skills will take a whole lot less time than getting good large gunnery skills. I can vouch for this. I've fought buffer tanked T2 torp ravens and they are goddamn insane in the DPS. There's no chance any other T1 BS can bring down one of these in 1-v-1 situation imo unless you start at range +20k or manage to get out to 20k+ with your mael - which has a ~30kish range on ACs with the range rigs and Rep fleet EMP L and more than 40k range with Barrage. The problem though is getting out beyond this range once you notice the other guy has those goddamn evil torps without dying first. Typhoon with good skills can defeat a raven. Also a Armageddon will chew trough a raven (considering you don't prepare it SPECIALLY to fight amarr ships). Both have small signatures. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Wu Jiun State War Academy	Posted - 2008.04.10 15:48:00 - [23] Originally by: Eneela M Originally by: Alowishus My Maelstrom is disgusting. Insane. If you're in a Rokh or a Raven don't even bother shooting back, it'd be pointless. Just sit there while I kill you. dreamland! The raven has more potential DPS than a mael, and the rokh is not far behind. With equal SP players it would be a very close fight. Not to mention raven can do 100% em damage. That being said i imagine with the right gear and imps a maelstrom might even tank the raven for as long as it has charges. So in a 1v1 my money is actually still on the maelstrom. But tough call as you say. Anyway one should not forget what a pityful amount even 1200 or 1300 dps tanked is. Against a group of cruisers or a single bs you might feel like a champ. But against 2-3 bs you will melt like a shieldtanked geddon. In that scenario i'd much like the resistance bonus of the rokh that allows for invulni/extender/extender rig hp-buffer tank. Now unfortunately there are no slaves for shieldtankers but anyway.
Jin Entres Malevolent Intervention Reavers.	Posted - 2008.04.10 16:22:00 - [24] This is what I use on the Mael. Rokh can be setup very nasty for 1v1 but with a blaster setup and in most cases I'd put my money on the Mael. --- CEO
Liang Nuren Black Sea Industries Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.10 16:50:00 - [25] Money vs a Rokh is on the Maelstrom... but against a Raven, it goes to the Raven IMO. -Liang -- Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance.
Liang Nuren Black Sea Industries Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.10 16:52:00 - [26] Originally by: Jin Entres This is what I use on the Mael. Rokh can be setup very nasty for 1v1 but with a blaster setup and in most cases I'd put my money on the Mael. If you throw enough money at it, sure.. but then someone throws slaves on their Megathron or Talismans on their nos domi and you die anyway. A lone curse could take you out no sweat. -Liang -- Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance.
ClogMan Caldari Unknown-Heroes Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.10 17:23:00 - [27] Edited by: ClogMan on 10/04/2008 17:23:47 Ive messed a bit with the rigs on my Mael and i find the combination of a EM, a Sa***uard and Solidifier to work best for me. It gives the EM resist, and the extra cap reduction of the shield mods + duration of the shield booster cycle. Pop a booster on top and i get 1800 shield boosted every cycle, using plain T2 mods and very good skills in cap, shield, energy and gunnery.
Jin Entres Malevolent Intervention Reavers.	Posted - 2008.04.10 17:46:00 - [28] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Jin Entres This is what I use on the Mael. Rokh can be setup very nasty for 1v1 but with a blaster setup and in most cases I'd put my money on the Mael. If you throw enough money at it, sure.. but then someone throws slaves on their Megathron or Talismans on their nos domi and you die anyway. A lone curse could take you out no sweat. -Liang It tanks 840 of hybrid DPS without the crystals and with an XL C5-L booster which effectively makes that a cheap budget T2 setup. That's pretty much what you can get in terms of DPS out of a Neutron Blaster Rokh with 3 damage mods. Max skilled neutron mega with 2 damage mods and 5 Ogre II's will do 1040 damage which leaves 200 leaking through the tank. With DCU, EANM, 3 plates and trimarks it will have 122k EHP while the strom will have 78k. 78k / 200 = 390 seconds of which cap charges will last about 280 seconds vs 122k / 957 = 127+ seconds. --- CEO
Happster Polaris Project	Posted - 2008.04.10 17:53:00 - [29] Rokh vs Mael....Rokh for sure. I would fit 4x torps + 4x heavy neuts on the Rokh. As Rokh has built in higher resistance it wouldnt be hurt so bad running out of cap as the mael would..... Also, if im not mistaken the rokh has a bigger amount of shield HP?
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.04.10 18:12:00 - [30] Originally by: Happster Rokh vs Mael....Rokh for sure. I would fit 4x torps + 4x heavy neuts on the Rokh. As Rokh has built in higher resistance it wouldnt be hurt so bad running out of cap as the mael would..... Also, if im not mistaken the rokh has a bigger amount of shield HP? yea but the rohk would be doing far less damage, not to mention the amount of cap mods/booster to keep the 4 neuts running oh and when the malestorm caps out it can still shoot, and if you time the shield booster to go off right after cap booster it will last a while

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