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aeoluse
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Posted - 2008.04.10 12:51:00 -
[1]
Just seen a thread about a 1v1 of a Mega and Rokh. Now as a missile and shield specced player I was wondering which out of the AC Mael and Blaster Rokh had superior performance.
As I have significantly more sp in shield tanking than armour tanking so I don't want to start training armour tanking just yet so please don't say train for a Mega or something like that, also I don't have much in the way of skill points in gunnery so training up for T2 hybrids or projectiles is going to take about the same time.
I was just wondering which worked better as a close range boat. I won't be flying solo so tackling won't matter that much and I don't live in 0.0. Also if you could post setups so I know what I am heading towards it would be great.
Thanks.
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Gnosis19
Grave Diggers
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.10 13:13:00 -
[2]
Being a Mael pilot, I would have to side with the mael plus Fleet EMP with 3 gyros 1 tracking enhancer and a full rack of 800 II's will chew through a rokh.
|Gnosis| |
Endless Subversion
Blood Corsair's
Blood Blind
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Posted - 2008.04.10 13:16:00 -
[3]
I'd suggest a torp raven.
Better dmg at better ranges, buffer tanked with utility highs, getting good torp skills will take a whole lot less time than getting good large gunnery skills.
Self Destruct & LogOffs |
Gnosis19
Grave Diggers
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.10 13:24:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Endless Subversion
I'd suggest a torp raven.
Better dmg at better ranges, buffer tanked with utility highs, getting good torp skills will take a whole lot less time than getting good large gunnery skills.
or this :)
|Gnosis| |
Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge
XIII Legio
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Posted - 2008.04.10 13:25:00 -
[5]
When you say you don't have much in gunnery skillpoints - does that include the support skills? Rapid firing, surgicial strike, gunnery, trajectory analysis, sharpshooting, controlled bursts, and so on? I would get all of those to IV and V before considering a BS.
That said, a BS with a resist bonus has a better tank than a ship with a boost bonus. This is especially true if you have friends that can remote rep you (and allows the flexibility to have a HP buffer tank as opposed to an active tank). Advantage Rokh.
However, you'll be more cap stable with an active tank (cap injected) Maelstrom, but you'll have less effective hitpoints. Advantage Maelstrom.
Damage wise you can setup both pretty close to each other (>1000 dps with drones). Maelstrom can have 2 flights of medium drones (set of ecm and a set of combat), whereas the rokh can only use 1 flight of medium drones. Slight advantage Maelstrom.
If you're doing small gang work, the Maelstrom might be a better choice. When going for larger groups the Rokh will serve you better.
__________________________________________________
Sup brosef!
Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
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ApaKaka
Lone Starr Corporation
HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.04.10 13:53:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Endless Subversion
I'd suggest a torp raven.
Better dmg at better ranges, buffer tanked with utility highs, getting good torp skills will take a whole lot less time than getting good large gunnery skills.
I can vouch for this. I've fought buffer tanked T2 torp ravens and they are goddamn insane in the DPS. There's no chance any other T1 BS can bring down one of these in 1-v-1 situation imo unless you start at range +20k or manage to get out to 20k+ with your mael - which has a ~30kish range on ACs with the range rigs and Rep fleet EMP L and more than 40k range with Barrage.
The problem though is getting out beyond this range once you notice the other guy has those goddamn evil torps without dying first. 
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Mysteriax
Eve University
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Posted - 2008.04.10 14:01:00 -
[7]
Originally by: ApaKaka
I can vouch for this. I've fought buffer tanked T2 torp ravens and they are goddamn insane in the DPS. There's no chance any other T1 BS can bring down one of these in 1-v-1 situation imo unless you start at range +20k or manage to get out to 20k+ with your mael - which has a ~30kish range on ACs with the range rigs and Rep fleet EMP L and more than 40k range with Barrage.
The problem though is getting out beyond this range once you notice the other guy has those goddamn evil torps without dying first.
Nanophoon might work?
Also a plated phoon can dish out insane DPS, more then the raven atleast
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aeoluse
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Posted - 2008.04.10 14:01:00 -
[8]
I can fly a T2 Torp Raven already, what I really want is a change. I have low sp in gunnery including support skills, but I am looking for a new challenge, I am bored of Ravens and can already fly an ECM Scorp well so I am looking to train up for something new. I know that getting the support skills in gunnery is going to take awhile, I am not looking to fly it any time soon!
I don't expect to be in a gang with much remote rep support and I am in favour of active over buffer tanks. Though I do fly a Drake...
I think I will have to go with Gnosis19 and Omarvelous and look at training for the Mael, as most of the gang work will be small gangs.
Thanks.
Time to look for an AC Mael fit...
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Gnosis19
Grave Diggers
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.10 14:13:00 -
[9]
Here is what I use
Maelstrom
Highs: Full rack of 800's II with Fleet EMP and Barrage
Mids: 2 Tech II amp, 1 Tech II or Dread XL Booster, 2 Tech II Invul's, Tech II Injector
Lows:
*If you opt for the Tech II XL booster you will most likely need a cpu upgrade which is another selling point for the Dread booster.
3 Gyros II
1 Tracking Enhancer II (drops this for cpu upgrade)
1 DC II
Rigs: 1 EM 1 Thermal and 1 field extender
Note: You should also invest in atleast a Low Grade Crystal set plus get your Combat Booster skills up. For me using a standard blue pill i get around 2500 boosted ever 4 sec with dread or every 5 sec with Tech II XL
my 2cents
|Gnosis| |
Iteken Hotori
Minmatar
Eve Defence Force
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.04.10 14:24:00 -
[10]
Realistically it'll be a close run thing. Noth are shield tankers so yo are a little gimped to start with, but i simply LOVE the maelstrom for it's Gatebusting role - first raised to me by the salty old legent Scots Crusader.
It's a minmatar ship, so gonna be pretty skill intensive but worth every penny, and improves exponentially with boosters / t2 implants.
My current setup:
8x 800MM AC II (RF Emp or Hail)
100mn MWD II, DG X-Large Shield Booster. DG Shield Boost Amp, 2x Inv Field II, Heavy Cap Bosoter II (800 charges)
3x Gyro II, DC II, Tracking Comp.
em rig, therm rig, sheild amount rig
medium ECM Drones
Low-Grade Crystals
(not tried boosters - they good?)
easy 1k dps
It tanks a horrendous amount of damage for about 3 mins (when you run out of cap boosters) and when combines with logistics ships / tacklers it's prety much indestructible :)
It would eat a rokh alive tbh, as Rokh is bonused for tanking / range sniping rather than close range gank. I'd sugest with a bit of judicous bumping it'd kill 2+
You'll need pretty much perfect cap skilsl to get the most out of the tank, and lots and lots of gunenry - at 6.8mil i feel i'm getting close to getting the most out of it.
ps. Contrary to popular opinion, you CAN stop the rokh.
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Trefnis
Minmatar
R.U.S.T.
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.10 14:24:00 -
[11]
I have never flown rokh just mael and its best (if not the only)
point blank defence/shoot ship that matari have.
forget tackling and mwd, just max tank and injector, warp to tackler and shoot.
over 1100 dps with good skills and hail loaded, and yes i do use hail (barrage in cargo).
but as you said you are low on sp and personally i would sugest to go for rokh as
you have bs skill already and instead of going matari train bs V and blasters as in
the future you might want to get rails for rokh or eagle anyway.
you just have to know that caldari are not solo race, while matari...
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aeoluse
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Posted - 2008.04.10 14:36:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Trefnis
I have never flown rokh just mael and its best (if not the only)
point blank defence/shoot ship that matari have.
forget tackling and mwd, just max tank and injector, warp to tackler and shoot.
over 1100 dps with good skills and hail loaded, and yes i do use hail (barrage in cargo).
but as you said you are low on sp and personally i would sugest to go for rokh as
you have bs skill already and instead of going matari train bs V and blasters as in
the future you might want to get rails for rokh or eagle anyway.
you just have to know that caldari are not solo race, while matari...
I'm not low on sp, just sp in gunnery. I'm in no hurry to get into either its more just something for the future to train for. I think I am going for the Mael. A major draw back of the Rokh is that it looks like a train 
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Barzam
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.04.10 14:40:00 -
[13]
Originally by: aeoluse
I'm not low on sp, just sp in gunnery. I'm in no hurry to get into either its more just something for the future to train for. I think I am going for the Mael. A major draw back of the Rokh is that it looks like a train
Just be aware that the Mael won't really shine until you have about 4 million SP in gunnery trained (Large AC Spec IV, all supportskills at V or IV) as well as Minmatar BS V
But they're definetly not useless skills, so I would go for it - it will just take some months before you will see the sexyness of the ship though 
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Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge
XIII Legio
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Posted - 2008.04.10 14:44:00 -
[14]
Originally by: aeoluse
...A major draw back of the Rokh is that it looks like a train
Correction - it looks like a bus that flies in space. Hence I named mine Greyhound Express.
I know you're looking at things from a short range perspective, but the Rokh has some steller range that the Maelstrom lacks. You have the versatility to go with an ECCM sniper fit, and kill hostile ECM ships.
__________________________________________________
Sup brosef!
Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
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Iteken Hotori
Minmatar
Eve Defence Force
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.04.10 14:48:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Omarvelous
Originally by: aeoluse
...A major draw back of the Rokh is that it looks like a train
Correction - it looks like a bus that flies in space. Hence I named mine Greyhound Express.
I know you're looking at things from a short range perspective, but the Rokh has some steller range that the Maelstrom lacks. You have the versatility to go with an ECCM sniper fit, and kill hostile ECM ships.
200km with tremmor L
45km with barrage L
's alright innit?
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aeoluse
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Posted - 2008.04.10 14:58:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Omarvelous
Originally by: aeoluse
...A major draw back of the Rokh is that it looks like a train
Correction - it looks like a bus that flies in space. Hence I named mine Greyhound Express.
I know you're looking at things from a short range perspective, but the Rokh has some steller range that the Maelstrom lacks. You have the versatility to go with an ECCM sniper fit, and kill hostile ECM ships.
Yeah short range is what I want, I don't want to snipe and I figure that if I'm gonna get into big fleet battles I'd rather spend a little bit more time and train armour tanking up and fly the much cheaper Tempest. But I will definitely keep it in mind...
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aeoluse
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Posted - 2008.04.10 15:01:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Barzam
Originally by: aeoluse
I'm not low on sp, just sp in gunnery. I'm in no hurry to get into either its more just something for the future to train for. I think I am going for the Mael. A major draw back of the Rokh is that it looks like a train
Just be aware that the Mael won't really shine until you have about 4 million SP in gunnery trained (Large AC Spec IV, all supportskills at V or IV) as well as Minmatar BS V
But they're definetly not useless skills, so I would go for it - it will just take some months before you will see the sexyness of the ship though
I don't plan on using it until I have really good support in gunnery, I can fly a Torp Raven or a Scorp till then. And I'm gonna save Minmatar BS V for when I go on holiday in the summer.
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Barzam
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.04.10 15:05:00 -
[18]
Originally by: aeoluse
I don't plan on using it until I have really good support in gunnery, I can fly a Torp Raven or a Scorp till then. And I'm gonna save Minmatar BS V for when I go on holiday in the summer.
Of course I'm assuming you have all the relevant shield support skills trained, because those are definately needed. And crystal set really really makes it sexy, a low-grade one will suffice :) It will tank like a mofo.
Also droneskills to deliver Ogre II damage is preferrable (that or remote shield rep drones for gang)
For rigging, I go with 2 range rigs, and one operational solidifier. Gives you +40k range with AC's.
In total that should net you over 1000 DPS, and tanking like 1400-1500 dps continually cap-injected for over 3 minutes. Switch to Rep.Fleet EMP ammo or Hail L and you're going to do serious damage (at less range)
A right monster.
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Alowishus
mUfFiN fAcToRy
Sex Panthers
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Posted - 2008.04.10 15:06:00 -
[19]
My Maelstrom is disgusting. Insane. If you're in a Rokh or a Raven don't even bother shooting back, it'd be pointless. Just sit there while I kill you.
Join The Muffin Factory
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Eneela M
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Posted - 2008.04.10 15:31:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Alowishus
My Maelstrom is disgusting. Insane. If you're in a Rokh or a Raven don't even bother shooting back, it'd be pointless. Just sit there while I kill you.
dreamland!
The raven has more potential DPS than a mael, and the rokh is not far behind. With equal SP players it would be a very close fight.
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Alowishus
mUfFiN fAcToRy
Sex Panthers
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Posted - 2008.04.10 15:45:00 -
[21]
I don't care how much DPS the Raven does, I can tank the DPS of any Raven for quite some time, and if it's a full DPS Raven it probably doesn't have the buffer/tank to withstand my damage for as long as I can withstand his. It's a balance. Most battles between a Maelstrom and a Raven could go either way but I have a few tricks up my sleeve and A LOT of ISK invested. Don't get me wrong, I also fly a Raven as well, and I love it too.
Realistically I don't setup for 1v1 (no tackle gear) because I'm never alone. But if a Raven pilot did catch me alone I bet I could make him warp out, unless he had EWAR or severely outspent me.
Join The Muffin Factory
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Infinity Enterprises
Odyssey.
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Posted - 2008.04.10 15:47:00 -
[22]
Originally by: ApaKaka
Originally by: Endless Subversion
I'd suggest a torp raven.
Better dmg at better ranges, buffer tanked with utility highs, getting good torp skills will take a whole lot less time than getting good large gunnery skills.
I can vouch for this. I've fought buffer tanked T2 torp ravens and they are goddamn insane in the DPS. There's no chance any other T1 BS can bring down one of these in 1-v-1 situation imo unless you start at range +20k or manage to get out to 20k+ with your mael - which has a ~30kish range on ACs with the range rigs and Rep fleet EMP L and more than 40k range with Barrage.
The problem though is getting out beyond this range once you notice the other guy has those goddamn evil torps without dying first.
Typhoon with good skills can defeat a raven. Also a Armageddon will chew trough a raven (considering you don't prepare it SPECIALLY to fight amarr ships). Both have small signatures.
-------------------------------------------------
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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Wu Jiun
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.10 15:48:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Eneela M
Originally by: Alowishus
My Maelstrom is disgusting. Insane. If you're in a Rokh or a Raven don't even bother shooting back, it'd be pointless. Just sit there while I kill you.
dreamland!
The raven has more potential DPS than a mael, and the rokh is not far behind. With equal SP players it would be a very close fight.
Not to mention raven can do 100% em damage. That being said i imagine with the right gear and imps a maelstrom might even tank the raven for as long as it has charges. So in a 1v1 my money is actually still on the maelstrom. But tough call as you say.
Anyway one should not forget what a pityful amount even 1200 or 1300 dps tanked is. Against a group of cruisers or a single bs you might feel like a champ. But against 2-3 bs you will melt like a shieldtanked geddon. In that scenario i'd much like the resistance bonus of the rokh that allows for invulni/extender/extender rig hp-buffer tank. Now unfortunately there are no slaves for shieldtankers but anyway.
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Jin Entres
Malevolent Intervention
Reavers.
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Posted - 2008.04.10 16:22:00 -
[24]
This is what I use on the Mael. Rokh can be setup very nasty for 1v1 but with a blaster setup and in most cases I'd put my money on the Mael.
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CEO
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Liang Nuren
Black Sea Industries
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.04.10 16:50:00 -
[25]
Money vs a Rokh is on the Maelstrom... but against a Raven, it goes to the Raven IMO.
-Liang
--
Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance. |
Liang Nuren
Black Sea Industries
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.04.10 16:52:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Jin Entres
This is what I use on the Mael. Rokh can be setup very nasty for 1v1 but with a blaster setup and in most cases I'd put my money on the Mael.
If you throw enough money at it, sure.. but then someone throws slaves on their Megathron or Talismans on their nos domi and you die anyway.
A lone curse could take you out no sweat. 
-Liang
--
Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance. |
ClogMan
Caldari
Unknown-Heroes
Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.10 17:23:00 -
[27]
Edited by: ClogMan on 10/04/2008 17:23:47
Ive messed a bit with the rigs on my Mael and i find the combination of a EM, a Sa***uard and Solidifier to work best for me.
It gives the EM resist, and the extra cap reduction of the shield mods + duration of the shield booster cycle.
Pop a booster on top and i get 1800 shield boosted every cycle, using plain T2 mods and very good skills in cap, shield, energy and gunnery.
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Jin Entres
Malevolent Intervention
Reavers.
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Posted - 2008.04.10 17:46:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Jin Entres
This is what I use on the Mael. Rokh can be setup very nasty for 1v1 but with a blaster setup and in most cases I'd put my money on the Mael.
If you throw enough money at it, sure.. but then someone throws slaves on their Megathron or Talismans on their nos domi and you die anyway.
A lone curse could take you out no sweat.
-Liang
It tanks 840 of hybrid DPS without the crystals and with an XL C5-L booster which effectively makes that a cheap budget T2 setup. That's pretty much what you can get in terms of DPS out of a Neutron Blaster Rokh with 3 damage mods.
Max skilled neutron mega with 2 damage mods and 5 Ogre II's will do 1040 damage which leaves 200 leaking through the tank. With DCU, EANM, 3 plates and trimarks it will have 122k EHP while the strom will have 78k. 78k / 200 = 390 seconds of which cap charges will last about 280 seconds vs 122k / 957 = 127+ seconds.
---
CEO
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Happster
Polaris Project
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Posted - 2008.04.10 17:53:00 -
[29]
Rokh vs Mael....Rokh for sure.
I would fit 4x torps + 4x heavy neuts on the Rokh.
As Rokh has built in higher resistance it wouldnt be hurt so bad running out of cap as the mael would.....
Also, if im not mistaken the rokh has a bigger amount of shield HP?
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2008.04.10 18:12:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Happster
Rokh vs Mael....Rokh for sure.
I would fit 4x torps + 4x heavy neuts on the Rokh.
As Rokh has built in higher resistance it wouldnt be hurt so bad running out of cap as the mael would.....
Also, if im not mistaken the rokh has a bigger amount of shield HP?
yea but the rohk would be doing far less damage, not to mention the amount of cap mods/booster to keep the 4 neuts running
oh and when the malestorm caps out it can still shoot, and if you time the shield booster to go off right after cap booster it will last a while
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Happster
Polaris Project
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Posted - 2008.04.10 18:25:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
Originally by: Happster
Rokh vs Mael....Rokh for sure.
I would fit 4x torps + 4x heavy neuts on the Rokh.
As Rokh has built in higher resistance it wouldnt be hurt so bad running out of cap as the mael would.....
Also, if im not mistaken the rokh has a bigger amount of shield HP?
yea but the rohk would be doing far less damage, not to mention the amount of cap mods/booster to keep the 4 neuts running
oh and when the malestorm caps out it can still shoot, and if you time the shield booster to go off right after cap booster it will last a while
With no active hardners on the mael, it will have 0% EM resistance. The faction em torps will eat through your shield like no tomorrow....
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aeoluse
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Posted - 2008.04.10 22:34:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Ath Amon
1vs1 is not a measure for superior performance
you should say what you plan to use it for, Mael is good only in small gang warfare, rokh is more suited for fleet engagements
if you look for sort of versatile ship to use solo or in gang prob you should look elsewhere
still i dont suggest to train minmatar for BS as their ones atm are bit subpar
if you just want to know who will win in 1vs1 whitout tackling... i go with the rokh with missiles/neuts/noses, still it will be a pretty boring fight
I never said that I was looking for a comparison 1v1, I was looking for a comparison of the ships when they were setup for close range, small gang warfare. Reason I picked Mael and Rokh was because they are both shield tanked BS's that don't use missiles, as I can already fly well a Raven and Scorp and I want a change. Plus I don't want to train up armour tanking just yet, so they are really the only option for none missile, shield tanked BS's.
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Gavin Darklighter
THE FINAL STAND
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Posted - 2008.04.10 23:09:00 -
[33]
Originally by: aeoluse
I never said that I was looking for a comparison 1v1, I was looking for a comparison of the ships when they were setup for close range, small gang warfare. Reason I picked Mael and Rokh was because they are both shield tanked BS's that don't use missiles, as I can already fly well a Raven and Scorp and I want a change. Plus I don't want to train up armour tanking just yet, so they are really the only option for none missile, shield tanked BS's.
I would train hybrids. The Maelstrom is the better ship 1v1 IMO but the extra HP of the Rokh is a lifesaver in gang combat. Plus, with good hybrid skills you can cross train into gallente very easily.
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XFreedomX
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Posted - 2008.04.10 23:09:00 -
[34]
Maelstrom is better.
Its more mobile
Its looks better.
Its CHEAPER!!!
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Vrognem
Altruism.
Malice.
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Posted - 2008.04.11 03:08:00 -
[35]
Strom is primarily a gang AC boat. So.. it's pure tank and gank. From the run-ins in the past with rokhs 1v1 I've smacked them good at equivalent skills.
THey are VERY skill intensive and yes 3kk SP in gunnery is where it starts to come out and really play. Could sort of liken it to a mini dread.. nutty tank and nutty dps and very flexible for small gang engagement range with t2 guns and falloff rigs (2-50k or so). |
Liang Nuren
Black Sea Industries
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.04.11 03:30:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Vrognem
Strom is primarily a gang AC boat. So.. it's pure tank and gank. From the run-ins in the past with rokhs 1v1 I've smacked them good at equivalent skills.
THey are VERY skill intensive and yes 3kk SP in gunnery is where it starts to come out and really play. Could sort of liken it to a mini dread.. nutty tank and nutty dps and very flexible for small gang engagement range with t2 guns and falloff rigs (2-50k or so).
Erm, I would have said that the Maelstrom doesn't even begin to shine until 5.5-6kk SP in gunnery. The same could probably be said about the Rokh.
-Liang |
Julius Romanus
Fatalix Inc.
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.11 04:26:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Vrognem
Strom is primarily a gang AC boat. So.. it's pure tank and gank. From the run-ins in the past with rokhs 1v1 I've smacked them good at equivalent skills.
THey are VERY skill intensive and yes 3kk SP in gunnery is where it starts to come out and really play. Could sort of liken it to a mini dread.. nutty tank and nutty dps and very flexible for small gang engagement range with t2 guns and falloff rigs (2-50k or so).
Erm, I would have said that the Maelstrom doesn't even begin to shine until 5.5-6kk SP in gunnery. The same could probably be said about the Rokh.
-Liang
Indeed, i'm at something over 3mil, and my harbinger is just starting to shine.
------------------
For Medicinal Use Only. |
Tikanom
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.11 05:04:00 -
[38]
1v1 close range?
Active shield tank cap boosting Maelstrom. The only ship that would have a chance against it is a dual rep Hyperion. |
Cpt Cosmic
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Posted - 2008.04.11 07:33:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Cpt Cosmic on 11/04/2008 07:34:18
lol
all those active shield tanking in pvp ~~ and where do you fit your mdw/disruptor/web? active tanking with 3 mid slot is kind of waste of ship. rokh is much better for pvp and 1on1 is not a measure for pvp effectiveness because there is no 1on1 in EvE and even if you dont do it in battleships.
you just slap 1 Large Extender, 2 Invuls, WEB/MWD/DISRUPTOR, 3 dmg mods, DCU II, PDU II and neutrons + 3 extender rigs resulting in more EHP than a gank mega with a bit less dmg but much more range.
do something similar on the mael and it will suck and active tanking is waste of ship in gangs since once you are primary even a shield booster wont keep up.
only one thing that mael have is, it doesnt need cap to fire guns and has high fall off with rigs, and that is all.
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Barzam
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.04.11 07:56:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Cpt Cosmic
Edited by: Cpt Cosmic on 11/04/2008 07:34:18
lol
all those active shield tanking in pvp ~~ and where do you fit your mdw/disruptor/web? active tanking with 3 mid slot is kind of waste of ship. rokh is much better for pvp and 1on1 is not a measure for pvp effectiveness because there is no 1on1 in EvE and even if you dont do it in battleships.
you just slap 1 Large Extender, 2 Invuls, WEB/MWD/DISRUPTOR, 3 dmg mods, DCU II, PDU II and neutrons + 3 extender rigs resulting in more EHP than a gank mega with a bit less dmg but much more range.
do something similar on the mael and it will suck and active tanking is waste of ship in gangs since once you are primary even a shield booster wont keep up.
only one thing that mael have is, it doesnt need cap to fire guns and has high fall off with rigs, and that is all.
Umm well, Mael is a gang ship as stated before - hence there are other tacklers, so you don't bother with disruptor/web/mwd etc as in the normal case. Also in most gangsetups I've flown we use remote shield drones, or scimitars to circlerep.
They own the field when set up correctly in a competent gang.
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Phersephone
Caldari
Mutually Assured Destruction
Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.04.11 08:53:00 -
[41]
What about some of the faction ships? specifically the Machariel.. how does it stand up against the maelstrom?
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Barzam
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.04.11 11:05:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Phersephone
What about some of the faction ships? specifically the Machariel.. how does it stand up against the maelstrom?
Machariel's only good for the extreme capital ship bumpage [15km/s BS ftw] and looking sexy. Too expensive to use in any normal gang-roam though.
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Ath Amon
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Posted - 2008.04.11 11:41:00 -
[43]
Originally by: aeoluse
Originally by: Ath Amon
1vs1 is not a measure for superior performance
you should say what you plan to use it for, Mael is good only in small gang warfare, rokh is more suited for fleet engagements
if you look for sort of versatile ship to use solo or in gang prob you should look elsewhere
still i dont suggest to train minmatar for BS as their ones atm are bit subpar
if you just want to know who will win in 1vs1 whitout tackling... i go with the rokh with missiles/neuts/noses, still it will be a pretty boring fight
I never said that I was looking for a comparison 1v1, I was looking for a comparison of the ships when they were setup for close range, small gang warfare. Reason I picked Mael and Rokh was because they are both shield tanked BS's that don't use missiles, as I can already fly well a Raven and Scorp and I want a change. Plus I don't want to train up armour tanking just yet, so they are really the only option for none missile, shield tanked BS's.
ok, so imo mael is better for very small gang due to better dps, if gangs get bit larger (maybe with some logistic support) things get more even as the mael shield bonus is pretty useless while rokh can fit a nice buffer and mael compensate with bit better dps and eventually range (if going to use faloff rigs)
so by what it seem you are aiming the mael is a better choice but the ships are pretty close so not sure is really worth.
Rokh offer a more solid long range setup and use hybrids so going for it will save you lot of time if tomorrow you will train for gall BS (that atm are quite superior to both mael and rokh for close range) is also caldari so no again you save time as you can alredy fly a raven.
oh and is not true that mael is more skill intensive, minnie is more skill intensive race but because it mix shield and armor tankers or have ships with (crap) split weapon system but is not the case of mael
Originally by: Diana Merris
Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".
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The Tzar
Havoc Inc
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Posted - 2008.04.11 13:44:00 -
[44]
I'd go for the rokh any day.
Better tank, better dps to 20km.
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Impolite Andevil
The Shadow Knights
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Posted - 2008.04.11 21:51:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Phersephone
What about some of the faction ships? specifically the Machariel.. how does it stand up against the maelstrom?
A Nightmare would burn down a Maelstrom without any trouble whatsoever - it has full Abaddon gank while still having more highslots for nos/neut and with an extra midslot it can exactly match the Maelstrom's tank. Just fit another boost amp to match the built-in Maelstrom amp. It also has over 1k more base hp. That said, bringing faction ships into it is kinda silly - that starts to go the route of calculating with Estamel mods, etc. I use a nightmare for missions only, and wouldn't think of putting a ship that spendy on the line for PVP. Not when 4 6 month old noobs in Domi's could utterly destroy it.
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Everyone Dies
Caldari
Lucky Tampon
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Posted - 2008.04.11 22:11:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Everyone Dies on 11/04/2008 22:22:48
Originally by: Alowishus
I don't care how much DPS the Raven does, I can tank the DPS of any Raven for quite some time, and if it's a full DPS Raven it probably doesn't have the buffer/tank to withstand my damage for as long as I can withstand his. It's a balance. Most battles between a Maelstrom and a Raven could go either way but I have a few tricks up my sleeve and A LOT of ISK invested. Don't get me wrong, I also fly a Raven as well, and I love it too.
Realistically I don't setup for 1v1 (no tackle gear) because I'm never alone. But if a Raven pilot did catch me alone I bet I could make him warp out, unless he had EWAR or severely outspent me.
This.
Maelstrom can beat any bs 1v1.
[Maelstrom]
Internal Force Field Array I
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Power Diagnostic System II
'Copasetic' I Particle Field Acceleration
X-Large Shield Booster II
'Copasetic' I Particle Field Acceleration
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Core Defence Operational Solidifier I
Core Defence Capacitor Sa***uard I
Core Defence Capacitor Sa***uard I
Ogre II x4
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Sionide
Minmatar
THE FINAL STAND
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Posted - 2008.04.12 00:56:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Everyone Dies
This.
Maelstrom can beat any bs 1v1.
[Maelstrom]
Internal Force Field Array I
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Power Diagnostic System II
'Copasetic' I Particle Field Acceleration
X-Large Shield Booster II
'Copasetic' I Particle Field Acceleration
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Core Defence Operational Solidifier I
Core Defence Capacitor Sa***uard I
Core Defence Capacitor Sa***uard I
Ogre II x4
Umm...until it meets a BS pilot that knows your setup, fits an ab or mwd, and just sits at 20 km (scrams you with t2 which goes to 24km) and just pounds you to death. Good luck doing well as you hit for 25-50% less damage fighting completely in your falloff.
Stop making stupid blanket statements.
===
In Eve, never bring a knife to a knife fight.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2008.04.12 01:17:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Happster
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
Originally by: Happster
Rokh vs Mael....Rokh for sure.
I would fit 4x torps + 4x heavy neuts on the Rokh.
As Rokh has built in higher resistance it wouldnt be hurt so bad running out of cap as the mael would.....
Also, if im not mistaken the rokh has a bigger amount of shield HP?
yea but the rohk would be doing far less damage, not to mention the amount of cap mods/booster to keep the 4 neuts running
oh and when the malestorm caps out it can still shoot, and if you time the shield booster to go off right after cap booster it will last a while
With no active hardners on the mael, it will have 0% EM resistance. The faction em torps will eat through your shield like no tomorrow....
note the em rig, damage control, and offline resist from the hardener.
not to mention unless you can time it damn good, the mael will still be able to cap boost then hardener+shield boost every time the cap booster cycles.
and not exactly sure how much cap recharge it will have but it might even be able to cycle a hardener on in between neut cycles.
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blanked
Caldari
Vitai Lampada
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Posted - 2008.04.16 13:38:00 -
[49]
convo me if you want a run through but "Everyone Dies"'s setup doesn't actually fit.
Just quickly, i would go for the rokh over the mal but if you want a run through I'll gladly go through it with you.
You are perhaps the sexiest eve gamer I have ever had the fortune to encounter on these forums! -Conuion Meow ([email protected])
Much love Conuion <3 |
Vagra
Minmatar
Gods Unwanted
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.16 14:54:00 -
[50]
No body can say what the outcome would be against a another player till the engagement is over. One ****-up would cause a higher class ship to turn into a wreak. I have flown both ships and have fought a Blaster Rohk in my Mael. The outcome was me winning due to better Cap management.
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The Tzar
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Posted - 2008.04.18 08:37:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Everyone Dies
Maelstrom can beat any bs 1v1.
[Maelstrom]
Internal Force Field Array I
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Power Diagnostic System II
'Copasetic' I Particle Field Acceleration
X-Large Shield Booster II
'Copasetic' I Particle Field Acceleration
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Core Defence Operational Solidifier I
Core Defence Capacitor Sa***uard I
Core Defence Capacitor Sa***uard I
Ogre II x4
Ha, absolute rot!
T2 Neutronblasterokh would have your mael for breakfast. Something near 90% resist for Minnie damage on my rokh. Except Rokh doesn't need the fitting mod in lows so I'll go for a plate and outlast you at the very least... |
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