Originally by: Miss Peaches

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I think its about time a new set of learning skills come out. Same as what exists now, another 5 skills that give +1 to your attributes. But the mother of all learning skills can be called "Genius" allows you to learn all skills 5% faster.

A new set of implants should be released, like a crystal set, only for learning. The cheap set, and an expensive set, give another 20% or so learning speed. Talk about party time.

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Originally by: Erotic Irony

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And attributes are capped at 30 aren't they?

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Originally by: Erotic Irony

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Edited by: Erotic Irony on 11/04/2008 17:30:13

Originally by: Miss Peaches

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I think its about time a new set of learning skills come out. Same as what exists now, another 5 skills that give +1 to your attributes. But the mother of all learning skills can be called "Genius" allows you to learn all skills 5% faster.

A new set of implants should be released, like a crystal set, only for learning. The cheap set, and an expensive set, give another 20% or so learning speed. Talk about party time.

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Would widen the new player gap to embarrassing levels, never going to happen.

And attributes are capped at 30 aren't they? With +4/5 implants you're already very close to that.

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Originally by: Zaknussem

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I get the feeling you haven't thought this through.

CCP wants us to take our time learning skills. They've (allegedely) expressed regret over giving use the "Advanced" learning skills, which if true can give you an idea of how interested they are in adding more learning skills.

The implant set isn't such a bad idea, IMO.

Furthermore, who would benefit the most from these skills and implants, which will in all likelyhood cost an arm and two legs? Do you think it will be the new players, whom will need it the most in order to "get into the game" faster and to catch up to the veterans? Or do you think it will be the veterans, whom can easily afford whatever price you name and then rocket ahead in skills?

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Originally by: Miss Peaches

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but it would be fun lol

also they would cost alot.

Genius would be about 100 mil in cost.
The advanced learning skills would be about 20 mil isk each

And the implants, well, think in terms of the price cost of a full set of snakes. Same idea.

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Originally by: Erotic Irony

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never going to happen

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Originally by: Miss Peaches

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Edited by: Miss Peaches on 11/04/2008 17:43:40
So what though?

There is always going to be a gap between a 20 mil sp player and a 1 mil sp player. Or a 50 mil sp player and a 1 mil sp player. By the time the 1 mil sp player trains up the learning skills, and can afford to, the 20 mil sp player is already at 30 mil sp, and the 1 mil sp is at 6. Already a gap there? Like wise a 50 mil sp player with alot of cash has a +5 set and full learning skills- so hes at 60 mil sp and the 1 mil sp player is at 5?

The gap is going to be there regardless. Thas like saying- well a t1 fit cruiser is no match for a Faction fit HAC the gap is too great.

What about the gap between players with implants vs players without implants? One could argue that someone with a full set of snakes, or crystals has too much of an edge over a character without them. What about those types of gaps?

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Originally by: Miss Peaches

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Edited by: Miss Peaches on 11/04/2008 17:48:33
Ok, forget the books then.

What about a set like Crystals, or snakes that aid in learning? Why is that Taboo? 1 billion for a full set, or 1/2 that for the lesser set? Why not?

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Originally by: Erotic Irony

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Originally by: Miss Peaches

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Edited by: Miss Peaches on 11/04/2008 17:48:33
Ok, forget the books then.

What about a set like Crystals, or snakes that aid in learning? Why is that Taboo? 1 billion for a full set, or 1/2 that for the lesser set? Why not?

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jump clones > your terrible ideas

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Originally by: Miss Peaches

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Ok, forget the books then.

What about a set like Crystals, or snakes that aid in learning?

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Originally by: Miss Peaches

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Originally by: Erotic Irony

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Originally by: Miss Peaches

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Edited by: Miss Peaches on 11/04/2008 17:48:33
Ok, forget the books then.

What about a set like Crystals, or snakes that aid in learning? Why is that Taboo? 1 billion for a full set, or 1/2 that for the lesser set? Why not?

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jump clones > your terrible ideas

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What do Jump clones have anything to do with a set of implants you noob?

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Originally by: Miss Peaches

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I think its about time a new set of learning skills come out. Same as what exists now, another 5 skills that give +1 to your attributes. But the mother of all learning skills can be called "Genius" allows you to learn all skills 5% faster.

A new set of implants should be released, like a crystal set, only for learning. The cheap set, and an expensive set, give another 20% or so learning speed. Talk about party time.

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Originally by: Tarminic

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Including another set of implants or skills will have one of the following effects:
1. If it's cheap enough it will also become mandatory, adding additional months of skill training time
2. If it's too expensive it will only widen the gap between wealthy veterans and everyone else

CCP regrets adding the learning skills as it is for reason #1. Anything else that boosts learning would only make things worse.

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Originally by: Miss Peaches

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I think its about time a new set of learning skills come out. Same as what exists now, another 5 skills that give +1 to your attributes. But the mother of all learning skills can be called "Genius" allows you to learn all skills 5% faster.

A new set of implants should be released, like a crystal set, only for learning. The cheap set, and an expensive set, give another 20% or so learning speed. Talk about party time.

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Originally by: Dianabolic

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Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL

Originally by: Dirk Magnum

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Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 11/04/2008 18:08:01

I've killed multiple players who have been in-game longer than me. The ship I was flying and the skills I put towards it countered whatever ship they were flying and the skills they put towards that. The notion that less experienced players can literally never compete is bogus.
That's not directly learning skill related, but the idea of ability to compete keeps getting brought up, particularly in the post above this one.

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Originally by: Miss Peaches

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I think its about time a new set of learning skills come out. Same as what exists now, another 5 skills that give +1 to your attributes. But the mother of all learning skills can be called "Genius" allows you to learn all skills 5% faster.

A new set of implants should be released, like a crystal set, only for learning. The cheap set, and an expensive set, give another 20% or so learning speed. Talk about party time.

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Originally by: Major Stallion

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Originally by: Miss Peaches

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I think its about time a new set of learning skills come out. Same as what exists now, another 5 skills that give +1 to your attributes. But the mother of all learning skills can be called "Genius" allows you to learn all skills 5% faster.

A new set of implants should be released, like a crystal set, only for learning. The cheap set, and an expensive set, give another 20% or so learning speed. Talk about party time.

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apparently you havent read any of the dev popstings on this issue. They all garee learning skills are the bane of this game, they wont add more of what they hate. Stop proposing ideas like this.

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Originally by: Tarminic

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And we have a right to shoot them down.

Yes, newer players will always be at a competitive disadvantage in terms of SP and usually ISK. However, I think that at the moment the advantage between new and older players is fairly well-balanced. Your proposal would throw it completely out of whack.

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Originally by: Miss Peaches

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How many people would have them?
How much would they cost?
How much would they aid in learning? Obviously when I say numbers like 20% they are exagerations, and CCP wouldn't use my numbers anyway. But I really think it should be added regardless.

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Originally by: Tarminic

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The point is that the learning skills are already mandatory for anyone that wants to compete with the rest of EVE (over time).

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Originally by: Miss Peaches

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I think its about time a new set of learning skills come out. Same as what exists now, another 5 skills that give +1 to your attributes. But the mother of all learning skills can be called "Genius" allows you to learn all skills 5% faster.

A new set of implants should be released, like a crystal set, only for learning. The cheap set, and an expensive set, give another 20% or so learning speed. Talk about party time.

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Originally by: CCP Oveur

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The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.

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Originally by: Gridwalker

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Originally by: Tarminic

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The point is that the learning skills are already mandatory for anyone that wants to compete with the rest of EVE (over time).

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I don't disagree that we don't need more learning skills, but I am really curious what you mean by "compete"? There are only two real benefits that veterans with a lot of SP have over younger players:

1. They have the freedom to diversify without sacrificing their existing expertise.
2. They can take the time to train some skills to level 5 so they can squeeze out that extra few percent.

Other than that, you really start hitting diminishing returns on your training at what, about one year old? 18 months?
I don't like the idea of more learning skills for the exact opposite reason I tend to hear argued. I don't think it is good to let players "catch up" to the veterans, because it devalues the time that veterans have invested.

Basically, with the exception of a few more level 5 skills here and there, everyone would basically be the same. It would be like hitting the level caps in other MMO's which will not be named. :)

Just my opinion. I agree with the concept of no more learning skills. I just disagree with the reasoning. :)

-Grid

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Originally by: Xetu Noi

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Edited by: Xetu Noi on 11/04/2008 18:54:02

Originally by: Miss Peaches

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I think its about time a new set of learning skills come out. Same as what exists now, another 5 skills that give +1 to your attributes. But the mother of all learning skills can be called "Genius" allows you to learn all skills 5% faster.

A new set of implants should be released, like a crystal set, only for learning. The cheap set, and an expensive set, give another 20% or so learning speed. Talk about party time.

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This has to be a troll post. No one who actually thought this through could be in favor of this idea.

CCP currently has the distinction of having the most absurd time sink in an existing MMO, the learning skills. The learning skills are a pure META skill, that have NO effect on actual game play, and only reduce the time it takes to learn OTHER skills, which DO have an effect on actual game play. I have never seen such a blatant time sink in a MMO and I've been playing them since they were invented.

During the 5th Allaince Tournement Magnus Bergson, the then CMO of CCP, openly said he thought the learning skills were a serious mistake and should be removed from the game. He's right. All learning skill should be removed, the SP spent on them should be refunded to each player to be used to learn other actual useful skills, and the skill learning multipliers should be reduced on all skills so that training them would be equal to if everyone had advanced learning skills 5 in ever stat.

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Originally by: Malcanis

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I beg to disagree.

The current balance has new players distributing 39 points at character creation and (on average) up to 35-50 points from skills: an approximately equal balance. Enough to allow some distinctiveness during character creation, but also allowing players to balance out any mistakes made due to ignorance or deficits from roleplaying choices.

As it stands, you can get about +10 in every stat by spending 50% of your training time for the first 6 weeks doing learnings = a skillpoint investment almost exactly equal to the 800k skillpoints new characters start with these days. For all practical purposes, learning skills have been removed in the sense that by the time you have 4+4 trained you have the same SP that you would have by simply starting with an extra 50 points of stats and no more "free" skills than I started with back in '06.

The option remains to truly specialise in developing your stats for very long term development, and sure this takes longer. But someone who's planning to stay in the game for years is hardly going to be troubled by the time I takes to train 6 rank 1 skills to 5 and 5 rank 3 skills to 4-5.

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Originally by: Miss Peaches

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Originally by: Dirk Magnum

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Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 11/04/2008 18:08:01

I've killed multiple players who have been in-game longer than me. The ship I was flying and the skills I put towards it countered whatever ship they were flying and the skills they put towards that. The notion that less experienced players can literally never compete is bogus.
That's not directly learning skill related, but the idea of ability to compete keeps getting brought up, particularly in the post above this one.

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Really? So you just brought in a completly random situation that doesn't even apply to any of this. Youre talking about Ship counters/anti counters, and are trying to argue your point in skills that has no merit to this discussion at all. The point is you can never compete against someone in the same ship as you that is a vet vs. you. Its that simple.

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Originally by: Miss Peaches

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A new player, over time, will never be competitive with a skilled vet. Ever. You cannot ever have the same skills, you can have similar skills, but they will never be maxed out- not for a long time- and by the time thats done, the "vet" will already have the more advanced skills...

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Originally by: Akita T

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Actually, you know what... just introduce, oh, let's say, 4 new tiers of learning skills (rank 5, 8, 12 and 16 skills), which have as prerequisite L5 in the previous tier.
That way, "finishing" all learning skills to L5 will put you at the "mere" total of 57.6 mil SP, all of it in learning... and should take only, like, what, 3 years to finish or somesuch ? Of course, they'll only pay off after your biological death of old age, so they'd be completely and utterly pointless from a practical standpoint.
Still, I bet some of you will STILL whine that they HAVE to train them to "be competitive".
Right ?

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