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Caldari Harpy or Hawk Assault Ship set up please.

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Raymond Macario	Posted - 2008.04.15 16:19:00 - [1] May I get a set up for Harpy or Hawk. I prefer Harpy because it's better than Hawk I think, but who cares? Hope you share the set up info, thanks.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.04.15 16:23:00 - [2] The Hawk and Harpy are fundamentally different ships. Not only that, but what you plan to use them for matters a lot too. Will this ship (whichever you pick) be used as roving gang PvP tackler ? PVP gate-camping tackler ? Gang tackler destroyer ? Solo PvP boat ? Solo PvE boat ? Speed-and-spider tanking PvE boat ? Something else entirely ? You gotta' give us more here before we can even begin to help you. 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Corstaad Minmatar Vardr ok Lidskjalv	Posted - 2008.04.15 16:28:00 - [3] Spend the extra isk and faction fit the ship. You'll be happy with the returns.
Compendium	Posted - 2008.04.15 16:33:00 - [4] It may be better to save the money on the faction modules so you can pay for a Cerberus or Eagle though. The Assault Ships may have a double tank bonus, but their dps won't allow your to kill much anyway in pvp. It's possible to tank level 2s and 3s in the hawk with range over 50km easy on the missiles.
Yoko Lee	Posted - 2008.04.15 16:43:00 - [5] AS need some love, actually AS have not interet (minmatarr AS or ishkur are better) but you can have some fun. Harpy setup : 4x Ion II, 1x rocket II 1x 1mn mwd II, 1x Med shield ext II, 1x web, 1x Faction scramble (10km for cpu) 1x Micro auxi., 1x mag stab II 2x Em rigs or 4x 150mm II 2x sensor booster II, 2x Tracking computer II 1x tracking enhancer II, 1x mag stab II
Kay Rissa Russian Thunder Squad Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.04.15 17:11:00 - [6] long long time ago I was using this setup: Micro Auxiliary Power Core I Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 1MN MicroWarpdrive II Medium Shield Extender II Faint Warp Prohibitor I Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II 4 x 125mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S rigs: shield rigs anti em + something else Proud member of RTSQ ps: i dont like to kill innocent ppl, so if i killed u, u rnt innocent
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.15 18:05:00 - [7] Originally by: Yoko Lee Harpy setup : 4x Ion II, 1x rocket II 1x 1mn mwd II, 1x Med shield ext II, 1x web, 1x Faction scramble (10km for cpu) 1x Micro auxi., 1x mag stab II 2x Em rigs This.
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge XIII Legio	Posted - 2008.04.15 18:47:00 - [8] Edited by: Omarvelous on 15/04/2008 18:52:54 You're going to get webbed anyways... 2x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 1MN AB II Scram Web Tracking Disruptor 4x Light Ion II Small NOS II 2x Hybrid Damage Rigs Toss in a cheap <100k 6th slot small hybrid damage implant. ~250 dps - web resistant, and neut resistant. Use this against larger turret ships. Keep AB perma running - even webbed you can use your tracking disruptor to ensure they never hit you. Lets face it - if you get hit your small shield booster or medium shield extender won't do much anyways - you want to avoid damage in the first place. Kill drones 1st. Do not use on Missile boats - they will switch to EM missile and slaughter you. Generic fight fit is: Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Micro Auxiliary Power Core 1MN AB II Scram Web Medium Shield Extender 4x ion II Small NOS Rigs: Aux Thrusters or Anti-EM or a mix of the two. You need the NOS to keep your guns + tackle running when you get a neut fired on you. Even a BS heavy Neut is going to cycle much slower than your small NOS - so you can keep on tackling and firing away. Again kill drones first. Keep the AB perma running to minimize incoming damaged after you've been webbed. Max Gank? 2x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 1MN MWD II Web Scram small shield booster 4x Ion II (void) Rocket launcher II (faction) 2x Hybrid damage/RoF rigs = 300 dps with max skills (320 with implants). You won't last long so make sure you have ECM support with a kitsune. **EDIT - NULL ammo is your friend - take advantage of the Harpy's range bonus and fit some null - I've had it save me in a fight against a Thorax where we both were webbed and stuck around 7-8km from each other. __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
Yoko Lee	Posted - 2008.04.15 19:04:00 - [9] For gank harpy fit with neutron II (no rocket launcher) 2x mag stab But i prefer more tank (like my harpy ion setup)
Raymond Macario	Posted - 2008.04.15 19:07:00 - [10] may I get a set up for Ishtar? (Pvp)
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge XIII Legio	Posted - 2008.04.15 20:23:00 - [11] Originally by: Yoko Lee For gank harpy fit with neutron II (no rocket launcher) 2x mag stab But i prefer more tank (like my harpy ion setup) False - fit with ion II and rocket launcher. Same dps - but now you can alter some of your dps type. Also you have enough spare grid for hybrid rigs to get more dps than neutrons alone. Neutrons only advantage is beyond web range null ammo. It gimps your tank and grid too much to be worthwhile unless you have AWU IV and power grid implant. __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge XIII Legio	Posted - 2008.04.15 20:24:00 - [12] Originally by: Raymond Macario may I get a set up for Ishtar? (Pvp) Why derail your own thread? __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
Sosus Red Caldari Grave Diggers Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.16 05:27:00 - [13] Edited by: Sosus Red on 16/04/2008 05:29:12 my hawk: 4 T2 rocket launchers 1 shield extender 2 1 small shield booster 2 1 warp disruptor 1 mn AB2 1 PDU2 1 type E power core modification capacitor flux do not have any rigs currently. I can have the AB on permanently, and run the SB spradically CAP is 354 and 132 sec. Its a great tackler and I have assisted in ratting in 0.0 with it, I have taken down multiple NPC BC's and cruisers while the bigger ships work on the BS's, with no problems. The hawk is an awesome ship. Get a gang of 10 of these roaming around together and you can cause chaos. Its quite fun. take the cap flux out the low and put in a MAPC and you can fit a medium SB2. Currently I have 55.13 PG of which Im using 54.25 cpu is at 192.20 out of 225 Giddy up! MGMT ;)
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.16 05:47:00 - [14] Harpy: mostly useless outside a very narrow role of anti-interceptor sniping, and even there it isn't all that amazing. Hawk: utterly useless, gets beat in every possible area by the Caracal, including price. So given a choice between mostly useless or completely useless, I'd go with the Harpy.
Sosus Red Caldari Grave Diggers Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.16 06:25:00 - [15] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Harpy: mostly useless outside a very narrow role of anti-interceptor sniping, and even there it isn't all that amazing. Hawk: utterly useless, gets beat in every possible area by the Caracal, including price. So given a choice between mostly useless or completely useless, I'd go with the Harpy. Hawk= Very useful. how do you even compare a hawk, small, fast rocket shooting ship, to the useless caracal? No comparison my rate of fire is 2.43 seconds, can get it fast with rigs, and im doing 48.9375 kinetic damage with each thorn rage rocket fired, with my skills. My rockets have a flight time of 7 seconds with a velocity of 2,100 meters per second, now x's this by 4. Pretty decent for close is combat, which is its role. Its not a caracal, and being that close and orbiting at a speed of 550, i do not take much damage. If I wanted to use javelin rockets my flight time is 5.60 seconds with a velocity of 6825 meters per second, and again, my rate of fire is 2.43 seconds. My damage with the javelin rickets are 37.96875. X's this by 4. Now with the above stats, please tell us why the hawk is useless.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.04.16 06:36:00 - [16] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Hawk: utterly useless, gets beat in every possible area by the Caracal, including price. Except for missions/complexes where the gates don't accept cruisers, but do accept frigates, AFs and destroyers
Gypsio III Bambooule	Posted - 2008.04.16 09:06:00 - [17] Edited by: Gypsio III on 16/04/2008 09:14:25 Quote: Now with the above stats, please tell us why the hawk is useless. You do less damage than a Kestrel, that's one of the many, many reasons why your beloved Hawk is useless. Others include being fat, slow, expensive, being gimped for PG and CPU and having a crappy shield boost bonus that you don't have the midslots/PG/CPU to really take advantage of.
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.04.16 09:08:00 - [18] Originally by: Gypsio III Quote: Now with the above stats, please tell us why the hawk is useless. You do less damage than a Kestrel, that's one of the many, many reasons why your beloved Hawk is useless. That Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Sosus Red Caldari Grave Diggers Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.16 09:20:00 - [19] Edited by: Sosus Red on 16/04/2008 09:23:37 Originally by: Gypsio III Edited by: Gypsio III on 16/04/2008 09:14:25 Quote: Now with the above stats, please tell us why the hawk is useless. You do less damage than a Kestrel, that's one of the many, many reasons why your beloved Hawk is useless. Others include being fat, slow, expensive, being gimped for PG and CPU and having a crappy shield boost bonus that you don't have the midslots/PG/CPU to really take advantage of. Its easy to say I do less damage than a Kestral, but am I supossed to just take your work for it? Prove it, give me some numbers. Better yet, meet me in Vale in your lovely kestral of doom. I will be in my hawk, then we can settle this. Back yo **** up. Talk is cheap. BTW, did you read the part where I wrote that I perma run my AB2? Still, tell me how slow my hawk is, pls. Giddy up! MGMT ;)
Gypsio III Bambooule	Posted - 2008.04.16 09:33:00 - [20] Quote: BTW, did you read the part where I wrote that I perma run my AB2? Still, tell me how slow my hawk is, pls. This must be a joke. Permarunning an afterburner is not an achievement to be proud of. Your Hawk goes about 600 m/s with an afterburner, max; a similarly fit Kestrel goes 700 m/s. It's difficult to kill a Hawk in a Kestrel, btw, but I have done. But no, I'm not going to waste my time flying out to your particular part of carebear nullsec.
Sosus Red Caldari Grave Diggers Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.16 09:47:00 - [21] Hawk bonus: Caldari Frigate Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Missile Kinetic Damage, 15% bonus to Shield and Armor Thermal resistance and 10% bonus to Shield and Armor Kinetic resistance per level Assault Ships Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to missile velocity and 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Kestral: Special Ability: 10% bonus to Kinetic missile damage and 5% bonus to EM, Explosive, and Thermal missile damage per level. It looks like the hawk is already way ahead in the better ship game, but lest continue. The hawk powergrid output 42- low slots 2- med slots 4 -high slots 5 -cpu output 180 -launcher hardpoints 4 turret hardpoints 2 the kestral powergrid output 30- low slots 2- med slots 3- high slots 4- cpu output 150- launcher hardpoints 4- turret hardpoints 0 Hawks already looking better, bigger PG and CPU. MOre highs and mids too. Kestral shield capacity 391 shield em damage resistance 0 shield explosive damage resistance 60 shield kinetic damage resistance 40 shield thermal damage resistance 20 shield recharge time 625.00 sec Hawk: shield capacity 935 shield em damage resistance 0 shield explosive damage resistance 60 shield kinetic damage resistance 70 shield thermal damage resistance 80 shield recharge time 625.00 sec So with almost three times the base shield capacity and having the same base shield recharge time, hmmm...I wonder, which ship is tougher? So were you hawk haters just talking to make your self look smart? Or were you just trying to make me look dumb? As anyone can see, the hawk is superior to the kestral in every way, you would have to be a fool to believe otherwise. Giddy up! MGMT ;)
Sosus Red Caldari Grave Diggers Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.16 09:48:00 - [22] Originally by: Gypsio III Quote: BTW, did you read the part where I wrote that I perma run my AB2? Still, tell me how slow my hawk is, pls. This must be a joke. Permarunning an afterburner is not an achievement to be proud of. Your Hawk goes about 600 m/s with an afterburner, max; a similarly fit Kestrel goes 700 m/s. It's difficult to kill a Hawk in a Kestrel, btw, but I have done. But no, I'm not going to waste my time flying out to your particular part of carebear nullsec. because your all talk. You havent proven anything. and you cant. Giddy up! MGMT ;)
Gypsio III Bambooule	Posted - 2008.04.16 09:51:00 - [23] Here's how you would lose. Slow-arse rocket Hawk vs. Kestrel. Both have afterburners. Kestrel sits at range firing light missiles. Hawk can't get into Jav range. Hawk dies.
Sosus Red Caldari Grave Diggers Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.16 09:55:00 - [24] Originally by: Gypsio III Here's how you would lose. Slow-arse rocket Hawk vs. Kestrel. Both have afterburners. Kestrel sits at range firing light missiles. Hawk can't get into Jav range. Hawk dies. try me. or you still want to talk? Giddy up! MGMT ;)
Gypsio III Bambooule	Posted - 2008.04.16 09:56:00 - [25] Feel free to fly out to the Ishomilken area.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.04.16 10:50:00 - [26] Edited by: Akita T on 16/04/2008 10:51:47 No way in hell can you get enough DPS out of a Kestrel to kill a decently passive-shield-tanked Hawk. Not even from a dual BCU, rage or CN Kestrel against lowest resist. Heck, I've had a NIGHTHAWK shoot at me for about 3 minutes before he finally killed my "all out tank" Hawk once upon a time on SiSi. Also, if you're crazy enough, a faction-booster Hawk is even better in the tank department. But yeah, the DPS output of a gank Hawk is kind of sucky, slightly lousier than that of a gank Kestrel. Hawk vs Hawk is like Drake vs Drake... snoozefest. Originally by: Gypsio III Incidentally, the Kestrel vs. Hawk comparison is unhelpful. The problem with the Hawk is that it does nothing that's worth doing that can't be done better and more cheaply in a Caracal. That's why it's useless. LIKE I've already said, yes, there's one thing it can do better. Actually, one thing a Hawk CAN do that a Caracal just CAN'T. Enter some accel gates which are restricted to cruiser-class vessels. And for that, you NEED the Hawk. But yeah, other than that, Caracal ftw. 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Sosus Red Caldari Grave Diggers Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.16 11:36:00 - [27] Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 16/04/2008 10:51:47 No way in hell can you get enough DPS out of a Kestrel to kill a decently passive-shield-tanked Hawk. Not even from a dual BCU, rage or CN Kestrel against lowest resist. Heck, I've had a NIGHTHAWK shoot at me for about 3 minutes before he finally killed my "all out tank" Hawk once upon a time on SiSi. Also, if you're crazy enough, a faction-booster Hawk is even better in the tank department. But yeah, the DPS output of a gank Hawk is kind of sucky, slightly lousier than that of a gank Kestrel. Hawk vs Hawk is like Drake vs Drake... snoozefest. Originally by: Gypsio III Incidentally, the Kestrel vs. Hawk comparison is unhelpful. The problem with the Hawk is that it does nothing that's worth doing that can't be done better and more cheaply in a Caracal. That's why it's useless. LIKE I've already said, yes, there's one thing it can do better. Actually, one thing a Hawk CAN do that a Caracal just CAN'T. Enter some accel gates which are restricted to cruiser-class vessels. And for that, you NEED the Hawk. But yeah, other than that, Caracal ftw. Again, how do you even compare a caracal to a hawk? one uses rockets and is awesome when orbiting fast close the the target, pelting it with rockets and running a warp disruptor, and the caracal fires heavy missile from 50 km away. Where is the comparison? Giddy up! MGMT ;)
Gypsio III Bambooule	Posted - 2008.04.16 12:04:00 - [28] Quote: Again, how do you even compare a caracal to a hawk? one uses rockets and is awesome when orbiting fast close the the target, pelting it with rockets and running a warp disruptor, and the caracal fires heavy missile from 50 km away. Where is the comparison? I don't understand your vision of the Hawk. You seem to be using it as a heavy tackler and DPS support. The problem is that it's bad at both of those roles. You're so slow that tackling is difficult, you're horribly vulnerable to neuts and webs and your DPS is awful. If you want to tackle, use an inty. If you want DPS support, use anything else. The best PVP use of the Hawk is to load up on SML IIs and spam Precision Lights at enemy tacklers. The problem is that the Caracal does this better.
The Tzar Havoc Inc	Posted - 2008.04.16 12:23:00 - [29] Assault Frigs are a nice toy to have, you can kit them out with shiny mods and get impressive stats for a frigate..., but thats exactly it. The other T2 frigs fill their role much better imo. I would never go for the hawk personally, it has to be in web range to give any dps out.., possibly use it as an anti inty platform (see caracal though) With the Hawk you can play to the scram range quite well. As I wouldn't want to throw my ~20M into suicide web range, your never gonna achieve stella dps. [Harpy, NubNeedle] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Micro Auxiliary Power Core I Fleeting Warp Scrambler I Cap Recharger II Medium Shield Extender II Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters 125mm Railgun II, Spike S 125mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S 125mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S 125mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S [empty high slot] Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Optimal with CN AM 15km with falloff past the 20km scram. The setup pretty much perma runs if you slow pulse the MWD. Could fit a rocket launcher for drones if you wanted. With spike ammo you can pester things at max lock range circa. 60km.
Sosus Red Caldari Grave Diggers Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.16 12:29:00 - [30] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Sosus Red Again, how do you even compare a caracal to a hawk? one uses rockets and is awesome when orbiting fast close the the target, pelting it with rockets and running a warp disruptor, and the caracal fires heavy missile from 50 km away. Where is the comparison? There is absolutely no reason to sit 50km off in a Caracal lobbing heavy missiles, except PvE. AML anti-frigate fits are only 10 times better at ganking frigate-sized ships then a Hawk could ever be, with way more buffer, same range (if both using Light Missiles, or more range vs a Hawk using Rockets), etc. I'm actually worried when engaging a Caracal with a non-noob pilot in my Wolf (essentially a toy ship for belt/complex pirating which has strangely menaged to survive way more fights then I expected), while a Hawk regularly provokes a 'LOL, Hawk!' reaction. It's that bad Orbiting fast+close in a Hawk? 600m/s is not fast. Take into account that a MWD-ing plated Rupture does 1.5km/s... MWD-ing Thorax does 1.2km/s or something. A 400mm RT plate Wolf with a AB on is faster then you, and that's just embarrasing because 400 plate Wolfes plus AB is... well, really sluggish. 600m/s is embarrasingly slow. You stated it yourself that the Hawk gets outdamaged by a Kestrel (10% bonus or 5% bonus.... hmmm... what's more?). Compare it to the Harpy if you'd like, the Harpy only gets about over twice the DPS of a Hawk. Which one is more useful, hmmm? Harpy gets twice as much dps you say? Funny, I have a harpy too and I dont get make 96 dmg per shot using my t2 125s with spike. and 600 is fast...its fast enough to do what I gotta do. I NEVER said the hawk was an interceptor. Giddy up! MGMT ;)
Gypsio III Bambooule	Posted - 2008.04.16 12:33:00 - [31] Quote: Funny, I have a harpy too and I dont get make 96 dmg per shot using my t2 125s with spike. Oh well done, you've just compared damage from close-range weapons to that of sniper weapons. Good job, man.
Matrixcvd Caldari Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.16 12:41:00 - [32] don't bother with these ships they are useless, unless you wanna PVE in them
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.04.16 12:44:00 - [33] Originally by: Sosus Red Harpy gets twice as much dps you say? Funny, I have a harpy too and I dont get make 96 dmg per shot using my t2 125s with spike. (a) Blasters. (b) Faction antimatter (c) Do you even know how to calculate DPS? If you did, you wouldn't be quoting damage per shot, it's a totally worthless piece of information. Originally by: Sosus Red and 600 is fast...its fast enough to do what I gotta do. I NEVER said the hawk was an interceptor. 600m/s is slower then: -any cruiser with MWD (obviously) -any battlecruiser with MWD -any battleship with MWD (lol) -any T1 frig with AB or MWD -most AFs with AB or MWD etc... Nobody even mentioned interceptors. 600m/s is not something you're proud about, and it's not fast in any way Face it, Hawk is total fail. You only survive because you do so pitifully little DPS that Kestrels, Rifters and such are higher on the target priority list then Hawks. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Psorion The Nine Gates	Posted - 2008.04.16 12:48:00 - [34] Hawks and Harpies are not Fail, and they are just not Gankers. They are Heavy Tacklers and Pod killers. Hawks have great scan resolution and lock speed, and Harpys can 1 shot pods at will. I like using them in gate camps as tacklers. Throw a web on it and lock / web whatever jumps through, let your friends put the DPS on them. Not many Pods will escape a properly set up Harpy.
Dearest Wish State War Academy	Posted - 2008.04.16 13:39:00 - [35] Edited by: Dearest Wish on 16/04/2008 13:40:07 [Hawk, New Setup 1] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II 1MN Afterburner II [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] Standard Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Standard Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Standard Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Standard Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile [empty high slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] 105dps [Kestrel, New Setup 1] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II 1MN Afterburner II [empty med slot] [empty med slot] Standard Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Standard Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Standard Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile [empty high slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] 95 dps. to fit any amount of tank on the hawk you would need to lower its DPS substantially. The hawk is a bad ship. at 105dps it would be lucky to kill a rifter before getting ripped apart by any competent pilot. Fitting rockets on it is absurd, given its incredibly high mass for a frigate, it's slow as a brick. On top of that it costs 40x as much as the kestrel and does all of 10 more DPS. Put a web on it and it'll get shreded just as fast as that kestrel. Faction booster or not, it's mince meat to any decent T1 fitted cruisers. So grats, you might be able to kill frigates in your hawk if you can catch them. But if you fit tackle on it you have to give up DPS, which turns you into a slow as hell crow with cap issues and no MWD.
Dearest Wish State War Academy	Posted - 2008.04.16 13:41:00 - [36] Edited by: Dearest Wish on 16/04/2008 13:42:24 Originally by: Psorion Hawks and Harpies are not Fail, and they are just not Gankers. They are Heavy Tacklers and Pod killers. Hawks have great scan resolution and lock speed, and Harpys can 1 shot pods at will. I like using them in gate camps as tacklers. Throw a web on it and lock / web whatever jumps through, let your friends put the DPS on them. Not many Pods will escape a properly set up Harpy. My taranis one shots Pod's as well. It also moves at 6km/s, locks faster, shoots harder, and can perma run it's MWD, Web, Point, And guns. Also, I'm sure your a massive boon to your gang. If ever your gang comes under fire from enemy pod's, you'll be a life saver.
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge XIII Legio	Posted - 2008.04.16 13:58:00 - [37] Edited by: Omarvelous on 16/04/2008 14:04:31 Originally by: Sosus Red stuff on why a Hawk is great Ive flown both Hawk's and Harpies extensively. I can tell you this. ANYTHING a Hawk can do - a Caracal can do much better - FOR LESS. That makes the Hawk suck - nothing else. Don't compare it to a Kestrel - ofc it will beat a kestrel if both pilots are competant - however, a Caracal is superior in every way to a Hawk. The Hawk struggles to fit a competent dps fit with enough CPU. 2x Cross Linked Bolt Array 1MN Afterburner II Web Scram Faction Small Shield Booster 4x rocket Launcher II Small NOS Anti-EM rigs/Active Shield Tank rigs Effective HP ~ 4000-5000(anti-em rigs), about 72-95 (operation solidifier rigs) DPS shield defense, ~560 m/s, and about 118 dps (faction rockets) @ 15km. Cost? Dozens of millions (uninsurable). Caracal 2x Ballistic Control Unit II 10MN MWD II Warp Disruptor II Webifier 2x Large Shield Extender II 5x Assault Missile Launcher II 2x hobgoblin II Effective HP 15,856, 32 DPS tanked peak regen, ~1500 m/s, 200 DPS @ +60km (faction bloodclaw) - 183 DPS precision bloodclaw. Cost? Maybe 10-12mil but you get the ship insurance. The Caracal is faster, hits much harder (and can use precision lights to slaughter interceptors, and damage nano-ships - something a rocket Hawk can dream about), has 4x the effective HP - WITHOUT RIGS, and can tank almost 1/2 the active tanked Hawk's DPS without by virtue of passive shield recharge (mind you the Caracal is buffer tanked not even regen tanked). Did I mention the Caracal is hitting from 60km out whereas the Hawk has to switch to javelins - dropping its DPS below 100 and hits out to 44km. The Hawk has a smaller sig, can tank a little more incoming dps, and locks quicker. Is it worth paying several times the price of a fully tech 2 fit Caracal? No. This is why people say the Hawk (and to a certain degree assault frigates in general) suck. A tech 1 cruiser can do a better job for much less. Did I mention the Caracal actually aligns to warp 0.2 seconds faster than a Hawk? You can't even say AF are more agile! __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
Dearest Wish State War Academy	Posted - 2008.04.16 14:00:00 - [38] Originally by: Omarvelous hawk all this is true, except precision lights can't hit an interceptor worth their salt.
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge XIII Legio	Posted - 2008.04.16 14:03:00 - [39] Originally by: Dearest Wish Originally by: Omarvelous hawk all this is true, except precision lights can't hit an interceptor worth their salt. Note how I left the Caracal un-rigged. Fit 2 explosion velocity rigs, and 1 missile velocity rig and you can hit AND damage interceptors going about 8500 m/s. Odly enough for that job, I've found a Harpy with tech 2 rails and antimatter ammo to do the best job against interceptors (like an overconfident crow pilot going over 8000 m/s). __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
Psorion The Nine Gates	Posted - 2008.04.16 16:10:00 - [40] Originally by: Dearest Wish Edited by: Dearest Wish on 16/04/2008 13:42:24 Originally by: Psorion Hawks and Harpies are not Fail, and they are just not Gankers. They are Heavy Tacklers and Pod killers. Hawks have great scan resolution and lock speed, and Harpys can 1 shot pods at will. I like using them in gate camps as tacklers. Throw a web on it and lock / web whatever jumps through, let your friends put the DPS on them. Not many Pods will escape a properly set up Harpy. My taranis one shots Pod's as well. It also moves at 6km/s, locks faster, shoots harder, and can perma run it's MWD, Web, Point, And guns. Also, I'm sure your a massive boon to your gang. If ever your gang comes under fire from enemy pod's, you'll be a life saver. A taranis.. oh ya. Your lil Inty wont last very long in web range of a hawk. But if you like it fly it. This thread is about the Caldari Assault ships btw.
Grendel Marqun Caldari Ars ex Discordia	Posted - 2008.04.16 16:13:00 - [41] Originally by: Cpt Branko (c) Do you even know how to calculate DPS? Come on, cut the guy some slack. He's from Hydra, they don't know any better, and you can't teach them. But seriously, the Hawk fails, hard. I won't bother to reiterate the arguements in the thread, except to say I've seen an assault armed Caracal solo a gang of 4 inties, killing one and driving the rest off with _T1_ missiles. A Hawk would have died almost instantly.
Sosus Red Caldari Grave Diggers Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.16 16:27:00 - [42] Originally by: Grendel Marqun Originally by: Cpt Branko (c) Do you even know how to calculate DPS? Come on, cut the guy some slack. He's from Hydra, they don't know any better, and you can't teach them. But seriously, the Hawk fails, hard. I won't bother to reiterate the arguements in the thread, except to say I've seen an assault armed Caracal solo a gang of 4 inties, killing one and driving the rest off with _T1_ missiles. A Hawk would have died almost instantly. That was cold I will just leave this little flame war with this: My hawk works for me. It does what I want it to do and it has not failed me. Yes there are better ships, and I fly better ships but when I want to play tackler I jump in my hawk and accomplish the task. The hawk may now work for you, or your personal preferance may not be the hawk, but to say someone else is basically an idiot who doesent know how to play eve just because he likes a certain ship, thats really low. I often wonder why cant people in eve be kind to eachother. Ive been to fan fests and everyone is really cool, I dont feel the urge to punch anyone, but get them away from the fan fest and back in front of thier computer and everyones fair game. Giddy up! MGMT ;)
Dearest Wish State War Academy	Posted - 2008.04.16 16:31:00 - [43] Originally by: Psorion Originally by: Dearest Wish Edited by: Dearest Wish on 16/04/2008 13:42:24 Originally by: Psorion Hawks and Harpies are not Fail, and they are just not Gankers. They are Heavy Tacklers and Pod killers. Hawks have great scan resolution and lock speed, and Harpys can 1 shot pods at will. I like using them in gate camps as tacklers. Throw a web on it and lock / web whatever jumps through, let your friends put the DPS on them. Not many Pods will escape a properly set up Harpy. Fit 125's, Orbit at 15km, negate 100% of your damage. My taranis one shots Pod's as well. It also moves at 6km/s, locks faster, shoots harder, and can perma run it's MWD, Web, Point, And guns. Also, I'm sure your a massive boon to your gang. If ever your gang comes under fire from enemy pod's, you'll be a life saver. A taranis.. oh ya. Your lil Inty wont last very long in web range of a hawk. But if you like it fly it. This thread is about the Caldari Assault ships btw. Why would I get in web range of a hawk lol? Quote: Note how I left the Caracal un-rigged. Fit 2 explosion velocity rigs, and 1 missile velocity rig and you can hit AND damage interceptors going about 8500 m/s. Odly enough for that job, I've found a Harpy with tech 2 rails and antimatter ammo to do the best job against interceptors (like an overconfident crow pilot going over 8000 m/s). Any good tackling interceptor will be going over 9.5km/s
Gypsio III Bambooule	Posted - 2008.04.16 16:34:00 - [44] Quote: My hawk works for me. It does what I want it to do and it has not failed me. Yes there are better ships, and I fly better ships but when I want to play tackler I jump in my hawk and accomplish the task. What exactly do you tackle in a 600 m/s Hawk? Veldspar?
Sosus Red Caldari Grave Diggers Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.16 16:45:00 - [45] Originally by: Gypsio III Quote: My hawk works for me. It does what I want it to do and it has not failed me. Yes there are better ships, and I fly better ships but when I want to play tackler I jump in my hawk and accomplish the task. What exactly do you tackle in a 600 m/s Hawk? Veldspar? 05:11 Victim: April Knox Alliance: Mordus Angels Corp: COLD-Wing Destroyed: Arazu System: O-N8XZ Security: 0.0 Involved parties: Name: Gemini Zero Security: 4.1 Alliance: Agony Empire Corp: Agony Unleashed Ship: Raven Weapon: Hammerhead II Name: Sosus Red (laid the final blow) Security: 2.7 Alliance: Agony Empire Corp: Agony Unleashed Ship: Hawk Weapon: Thorn Javelin Rocket Name: Choran Security: 5.0 Alliance: Agony Empire Corp: Agony Unleashed Ship: Arazu Weapon: Hobgoblin II Name: Shadow Grim Security: 1.6 Alliance: Agony Empire Corp: Agony Unleashed Ship: Cormorant Weapon: 125mm Railgun I Name: Joss Sparq Security: 0.5 Alliance: Agony Empire Corp: Agony Unleashed Ship: Caracal Weapon: Remote Sensor Dampener I Name: Haai'd D'Salahmi Security: 2.3 Alliance: Agony Empire Corp: Agony Unleashed Ship: Tristan Weapon: Warp Disruptor I ----------------------------------- 05:01 Victim: Pax Deora Alliance: Mordus Angels Corp: Freelance Economics Astrological resources Destroyed: Tristan System: O-N8XZ Security: 0.0 Involved parties: Name: Sosus Red (laid the final blow) Security: 2.7 Alliance: Agony Empire Corp: Agony Unleashed Ship: Hawk Weapon: Thorn Javelin Rocket Name: Shadow Grim Security: 1.6 Alliance: Agony Empire Corp: Agony Unleashed Ship: Cormorant Weapon: Cormorant Name: Haai'd D'Salahmi Security: 2.3 Alliance: Agony Empire Corp: Agony Unleashed Ship: Tristan Weapon: Sabretooth Light Missile Giddy up! MGMT ;)
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge XIII Legio	Posted - 2008.04.16 16:51:00 - [46] Originally by: Sosus Red That was cold I ALMOST allllmmmmooooost felt bad for a member of Hydra... OK silly flames aside - look at my comparison between a Caracal and a Hawk - the Caracal I gave will do the tackling job for you in a far better way. You'll get to your target more than 2x faster, withstand 4x as much firepower, and hit almost twice as hard. This is all without the need for rigs or faction shield mods! Just because something works - does not mean its the best ship for the job. Believe me , when I was 1st able to fly a Hawk, I was in love with it. Then I actually analyzed its performance vs a Caracal - and I was so utterly disappointed. A Hawk can be flown for fun, you may even do quite well against a Raven... However for the vast majority of situations you would fly a Hawk - the trusty tech 1 Caracal will do the same job better for less. That (sadly) can be said for just about any assault frigate vs a tech 2 cruiser. This is why you see an AF thread every couple of days (some new pilot gets excited to have trained frig V - asks for a setup) and you always hear the same response on assault frigates. Originally by: Dearest Wish Any good tackling interceptor will be going over 9.5km/s For the ammount of isk involved in that interceptor I wouldn't expect a 20-30 mil caracal with rigs to hit it. Then again I'd just tank the 9km/s inty, call in back up and snipe/neut/ecm the inty and be on my way (assuming I can do that faster than he can call in backup). __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.16 17:06:00 - [47] Quote: killmails Wow... so your arguments that the Hawk is a good ship: 1) A recon ship getting ganked by multiple ships, including a recon of your own. Arazu vs. Arazu would be a fair fight, adding in a Raven on your side just makes it a massacre. It doesn't matter if your Hawk is there or not, that Arazu was going down. 2) A tech 1 frigate getting ganked by an AF, a destroyer, and a T1 frigate. If you're trying to claim that the Hawk is awesome when ganking the worst ship class in the game with superior numbers, I guess I'll concede that point. But I'd still rather fly a ship that's good at other things as well. But really, stop thinking about rockets, they suck. Compare the rocket hawk to the precision light missile (assault launcher) Caracal. The Caracal has more range, more dps (you can actually fit 2x BCUs on the Caracal, but the Hawk doesn't have enough CPU), better speed, a better tank, better explosion radius/velocity. And just to add insult to injury, the Caracal is cheaper than the Hawk. As for 600m/s being fast... never use an AB in PvP. MWDs are mandatory for good reason. Outside web range, 600m/s is slower than any PvP ship, and inside web range you're down to a nice easy to hit 60m/s. And you WILL get into web range, even if you can manage to spam your rockets from over 10k, anything with a MWD will just run you down, web you, and gank you before you can hit the 'warp out' button. So what exactly does the Hawk do? Gank? Hell no. You have less damage than a Kestrel, and far less damage than any real gank ship. Tank? No. Any T1 cruiser will out-tank an AF, and that's not even counting inties/HACs/etc. Tackle? No. AFs are way too slow, and inferior to interceptors in every way here. Why would you ever want to tank the target in an AF at 60m/s and die, when you can just use a god-mode interceptor to orbit 20km away at 15,000m/s. Kill interceptors? Hell no, rockets will never hit an interceptor, and the Caracal with assault launcher IIs will do far better damage with precision lights. So I repeat: the Hawk is utterly useless, and there is no reason to ever fly one.
Gypsio III Bambooule	Posted - 2008.04.16 17:28:00 - [48] Yeah, those killmails are a load of fail. You used Jav in both cases - indicating that you were unable to get within rocket range and so weren't actually tackling at all. The first one has an Arazu doing the tackling! But the critical point is that your Hawk is quite unable to tackle anything that doesn't want to be tackled - which is when you actually need a tackler. Your speed of 600 m/s makes you slower than anything (subcapital) with a MWD (and slower than a lot of things with AB!), and when you do actually waddle into range, you can't actually keep anyone there because they're faster than you and, most importantly, you don't have a web.
Zhecao Vai Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.16 17:38:00 - [49] In this thread a Hawk, moving at a blazing 600 m/s, successfully tackles a Tristan, proving once and for all how totally awesome the Hawk is! Now there can be no doubt!
Dearest Wish State War Academy	Posted - 2008.04.16 22:33:00 - [50] Edited by: Dearest Wish on 16/04/2008 22:33:34 Originally by: Zhecao Vai In this thread a Hawk, moving at a blazing 600 m/s, successfully tackles a Tristan, proving once and for all how totally awesome the Hawk is! Now there can be no doubt! lol, groon light is making fun of you. you have hit rock bottom.
Stuart Price Caldari Havoc Inc	Posted - 2008.04.17 00:15:00 - [51] Edited by: Stuart Price on 17/04/2008 00:19:31 Edited by: Stuart Price on 17/04/2008 00:16:30 Want to mangle all known interceptors with a Harpy? HIGHS 4 x 75mm Gatling Rail II (Faction AM, Faction Iridium, Spike) 1 x Standard Missile Launcher II MEDS 1 x 1mn AB II 1 x Warp Disruptor II 1 x 'Fleeting' Web 1 x MSE II LOWS 1 x MFS II 1 x Tracking Enhancer II RIGS 2 x EM Resist Use the AM if they come into web range, the iridium if they hover around point range and the spike if they're further away and need moving. If they get webbed, they die. If they stay and fight, at whatever range, you will outgun and outlast them. If they run, good, that's what this setup is for - negating interceptors. In a pinch, you can engage other af's with it (As long as they aren't smart ishkur pilots or anything amarr) but avoid bombers (like the plague) and stay clear of anything large with webs or neuts. If they aren't packing either, go for it since your speed should see you safe from guns and you can survive enough missiles to bail. I've taken on multiple interceptors at once with this setup and beaten them handily. It also shreds drones, which is handy if your gang comes up against ECM drones (or any drones really). They either have to switch the drones to you, kill you or watch them die, allowing your other ships to do their job. If you're attacking someone who is relying completely on drones to kill you this is also handy as you can remove their dps very quickly.
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.04.17 09:12:00 - [52] Originally by: Merin Ryskin As for 600m/s being fast... never use an AB in PvP. MWDs are mandatory for good reason. Outside web range, 600m/s is slower than any PvP ship, and inside web range you're down to a nice easy to hit 60m/s. And you WILL get into web range, even if you can manage to spam your rockets from over 10k, anything with a MWD will just run you down, web you, and gank you before you can hit the 'warp out' button. Actually, in low-sec, ABs on frigates (and on some AFs) make sense sometimes... and tbh, even with a MWD the Hawk is getting caught by preety much any cruiser, it's that slow But everything else, I agree with. No bubbles, so as long as you have enough agility and/or small enough sig, you don't need to burn back to gates. Not that AFs can get by competent tacklers with a sensor booster and watching overview closely enough, they have crap agility... but you prey a lot that the tackler isn't watching closely enough Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Opertone Caldari Simtech Productions	Posted - 2008.04.17 09:59:00 - [53] Originally by: Omarvelous Edited by: Omarvelous on 15/04/2008 18:52:54 You're going to get webbed anyways... 2x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 1MN AB II Scram Web Tracking Disruptor 4x Light Ion II Small NOS II 2x Hybrid Damage Rigs Toss in a cheap <100k 6th slot small hybrid damage implant. ~250 dps - web resistant, and neut resistant. Use this against larger turret ships. Keep AB perma running - even webbed you can use your tracking disruptor to ensure they never hit you. Lets face it - if you get hit your small shield booster or medium shield extender won't do much anyways - you want to avoid damage in the first place. Kill drones 1st. Do not use on Missile boats - they will switch to EM missile and slaughter you. Generic fight fit is: Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Micro Auxiliary Power Core 1MN AB II Scram Web Medium Shield Extender 4x ion II Small NOS Rigs: Aux Thrusters or Anti-EM or a mix of the two. You need the NOS to keep your guns + tackle running when you get a neut fired on you. Even a BS heavy Neut is going to cycle much slower than your small NOS - so you can keep on tackling and firing away. Again kill drones first. Keep the AB perma running to minimize incoming damaged after you've been webbed. Max Gank? 2x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 1MN MWD II Web Scram small shield booster 4x Ion II (void) Rocket launcher II (faction) 2x Hybrid damage/RoF rigs = 300 dps with max skills (320 with implants). You won't last long so make sure you have ECM support with a kitsune. **EDIT - NULL ammo is your friend - take advantage of the Harpy's range bonus and fit some null - I've had it save me in a fight against a Thorax where we both were webbed and stuck around 7-8km from each other. very nice one! this can tear cruisers apart! but we tested a gallente blaster AF vs blaster harpy... gallente tanked better in general blaster harpy can beat the rocket hawk for PVE both hawk and harpy are good as tankers for PVP blaster harpy FTW
Squatdog DROW Org Brotherhood of the Spider	Posted - 2008.04.17 10:01:00 - [54] To make a Hawk work, you MUST use a Gisti-B Shield Booster. They only cost 8m or so and make the world of difference. With rockets and a Medium Extender, you're looking at 2500 shields witn an assload of resist and cap stable regen. [yellow]Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Navigato
Squatdog DROW Org Brotherhood of the Spider	Posted - 2008.04.17 10:09:00 - [55] I tried using the Hawk as an anti-nano precsion-missile boat, but then realised that a Caracal would have triple the tank and double the damage while being only marginally slower... The only use I've found for my beloved semi-faction Hawk is for mounting snap bubble camps to catch enemy scouts or stragglers coming down the pipe (faster lock time is one of the only things in the Hawk's favour).
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge XIII Legio	Posted - 2008.04.17 14:54:00 - [56] Originally by: Opertone very nice one! this can tear cruisers apart! but we tested a gallente blaster AF vs blaster harpy... gallente tanked better in general blaster harpy can beat the rocket hawk for PVE both hawk and harpy are good as tankers for PVP blaster harpy FTW Thanks - those setups I gave taught me a lot on short range pvp because you have to think fast. They also showed me how a tech 1 cruiser like a Thorax or Moa can do the same job better - unless I thought outside the box with a tracking disruptor or if I took on BS where my sig radius was more useful than my HP buffer, and my small blasters were able to tear up the incoming drones better than medium blasters would be able to. As for a Harpy vs Enyo/Ishkur. Vs the Enyo - you can try kiting it to stay in optimal with null and out of optimal for him. Remember the Enyo has to pick point or web - not both like the Harpy - so you can dictate the fighting range. The Ishkur would be a tougher fight. If he uses hobgoblins you just have to pound the ship and hope your 80% thermal resit is enough. If he's smart and is using warrior II's, you might want to pop them first to reduce incoming damage. __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.

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