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Buyerr
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Posted - 2008.04.15 18:12:00 -
[1]
yes i know that people properly don't really want to hear this but i think it is something that really needs to be adressed.
capital ships are so extremely strong compared to any other ship in eve that nothing have a chance in hell to take on of them on, there permanent tanks is on a minimum of 2,5k dps tanked, and there dps lay at a 1k + .
they have suprime tanking, support, and dmg abillity in all aspects that is needed.
there is no counters to the capital ships in any fight 20 vs 20 man fight or a 200vs 200 man fight or a 1vs1 if one side is pure capital and the other can't use capital ships the capital side will always win and it will have to be a very large number for the normal ships to ever have a chance to just kill one of the cap ships before wipping..
this is really wrong, since in eve all ships should have a counter and it should not only be "the bigger the better" which capital ships really are. (even the normal cap ships are way overpowered and impossible to counter with a normal ship)
one solution i can see is making a heavy attack ship that is specialized in attacking capital ships, let it have a bonus to the use of capital guns and let it get a 100% dmg increase ONLY too capital guns/launcher, then let it only have 3/4 highslots for "turrets/launchers", and only bonusses to the capital weapons, let it have a very effective tank.
with only 3/4 high slots and only bonusses for capital killing(but a very high resist letting it servive the attack of a full attacking capital ship) it will be very limited for anything else then capital slaying.
or simply nerf the cap ships a lot. but i really don't think it is needed since they do have a good role, just need a counter. (although there is a need to make some kind of handicap (a very low locking range or something to make them ineffective against pos's, and a high base speed to give them a easy time to close in on a cap ship(yer yer i know nano problems but they will soon enough be fixed with a stacking penalti))
I declare war on stupidity |
Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
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Posted - 2008.04.15 18:16:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Buyerr
capital ships are so extremely strong compared to any other ship in eve that nothing have a chance in hell to take on of them on
I should have stopped reading there but I didn't, and I regret it
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Blood Daemon
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.04.15 18:16:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Originally by: Buyerr
capital ships are so extremely strong compared to any other ship in eve that nothing have a chance in hell to take on of them on
I should have stopped reading there but I didn't, and I regret it
THanks for the warning..
tl;dr
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Laura Steel
The Chaotic Order
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.04.15 18:17:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Laura Steel on 15/04/2008 18:17:38
Originally by: Buyerr
I declare war on stupidity
Hey that was quite ironic :)
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Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.04.15 18:18:00 -
[5]
Mh, you seem to know that Capitals are a problem, but you don't know why exactly they are.
Capitals are not a problem because they can tank much, and not because they can deal much damage.
They only get overpowered when there are too many of them, reaching critical lagmass while still being able to deal damage.
Their individual tank is not that great, one carrier can die to three or four properly equiped bs with a hic or ceptor for tackling.
Their spidertank, however, is.
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Katanaha
Gallente
D'hara Federation
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Posted - 2008.04.15 18:20:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Originally by: Buyerr
capital ships are so extremely strong compared to any other ship in eve that nothing have a chance in hell to take on of them on
I should have stopped reading there but I didn't, and I regret it
QFT, 
_______________________
Please CCP pimp my sig!
orly?! |
Dianeces
Minmatar
The Illuminati.
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Posted - 2008.04.15 18:21:00 -
[7]
Just wanted to say I didn't bother to read your whole poast, but it's wrong. All of it.
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DroneCommander
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.15 18:24:00 -
[8]
Edited by: DroneCommander on 15/04/2008 18:25:49
Originally by: Buyerr
yes i know that people properly don't really want to hear this but i think it is something that really needs to be adressed.
capital ships are so extremely strong compared to any other ship in eve that nothing have a chance in hell to take on of them on, there permanent tanks is on a minimum of 2,5k dps tanked, and there dps lay at a 1k + .
they have suprime tanking, support, and dmg abillity in all aspects that is needed.
there is no counters to the capital ships in any fight 20 vs 20 man fight or a 200vs 200 man fight or a 1vs1 if one side is pure capital and the other can't use capital ships the capital side will always win and it will have to be a very large number for the normal ships to ever have a chance to just kill one of the cap ships before wipping..
this is really wrong, since in eve all ships should have a counter and it should not only be "the bigger the better" which capital ships really are. (even the normal cap ships are way overpowered and impossible to counter with a normal ship)
one solution i can see is making a heavy attack ship that is specialized in attacking capital ships, let it have a bonus to the use of capital guns and let it get a 100% dmg increase ONLY too capital guns/launcher, then let it only have 3/4 highslots for "turrets/launchers", and only bonusses to the capital weapons, let it have a very effective tank.
with only 3/4 high slots and only bonusses for capital killing(but a very high resist letting it servive the attack of a full attacking capital ship) it will be very limited for anything else then capital slaying.
or simply nerf the cap ships a lot. but i really don't think it is needed since they do have a good role, just need a counter. (although there is a need to make some kind of handicap (a very low locking range or something to make them ineffective against pos's, and a high base speed to give them a easy time to close in on a cap ship(yer yer i know nano problems but they will soon enough be fixed with a stacking penalti))
Capital letters at the beginning of sentences are cool too.
I didn't read it either, sorry.
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Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
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Posted - 2008.04.15 18:28:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 15/04/2008 18:27:57
I'll self-destruct my pod if this thread doesn't have a well-intentioned post in it by page two. I think I'm probably safe.
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caladron prime
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Posted - 2008.04.15 18:35:00 -
[10]
uhhhh........I started to drool a bit 1/2 way through.
A 'heavy attack ship that is specialized in attacking capital ships' ???
There already are a number of these-they are called other 'capital ships'!
you are whining for a anti-cap pwnmobile that you don't have to pay cap prices for. Therefore, you fail.
/caring
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Cailais
Amarr
VITOC
Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2008.04.15 18:44:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 15/04/2008 18:27:57
I'll self-destruct my pod if this thread doesn't have a well-intentioned post in it by page two. I think I'm probably safe.
Oooh I was about to post there - what implants have you got installed so I can determine if its worth it? 
C.
New Scanner Idea!
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Wild Rho
Amarr
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2008.04.15 18:51:00 -
[12]
Capitals really became an issue when they had the ability to effectively engaged sub capitals (mainly from drone/fighter spam and DDs).
The high costs, logistics and restricted mobility (through cyno field dependence) simply wasn't effective enough at balancing the benefits of investing so heavily into cap fleets (being more or less able to butcher any sub cap fleet of about the same size with far less risk to each individual pilot).
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Dianeces
Minmatar
The Illuminati.
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Posted - 2008.04.15 18:51:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 15/04/2008 18:27:57
I'll self-destruct my pod if this thread doesn't have a well-intentioned post in it by page two. I think I'm probably safe.
Looks like Wild Rho doesn't like you.
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Fad3dlight
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Posted - 2008.04.15 18:53:00 -
[14]
You sir are stupid
I actually considered to:
Make 5 accounts
Pay and activate
Make 15 alts
And make 1 post with each alt telling you how stupid youre ideas are just to force you into self destruction.
But i got a feeling this one is going to work itself out..
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Shintai
Gallente
Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.04.15 19:10:00 -
[15]
I want the time back I wasted reading...
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
Night's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.04.15 19:15:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Shintai
I want the time back I wasted reading...
Why read it?
It's a Buyerr thread without capitalization and with block of text. If it was someone else, I'd maybe bother reading it.
All I saw is that I can't kill a capital ship in something smaller, thanks for the info
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Xcom
Gallente
Genco
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.04.15 19:28:00 -
[17]
Jesus people. Immature antagonizing replyÆs makes non other but YOU look more stupid. Just ignore the OP and move on.
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Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
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Posted - 2008.04.15 19:37:00 -
[18]
Jokes on him though, I had to self-destruct my pod anyway. Unwanted jump clone tbh.
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Gimpb
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Posted - 2008.04.15 20:01:00 -
[19]
I'm a relative newb and I can think of tons of counters to capital ships using sub-caps. Granted, not 1v1 counters but caps aren't 1v1 ships for either side of the fight. You don't see them sitting out alone and vulnerable, and you don't attack one alone either.
If you really want to be able to break the tank of a cap with smaller ships, the way to do it is with neuts, imo.
I have a feeling what you're really talking about though is carriers, not caps in general. That's where the real crossover between caps and sub caps is, carriers can make a big difference in sub cap fights. Whether or not it should be that way, I don't know; but for all their strength fighters can be very expensive clay pigeons.
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Armoured C
Gallente
Globaltech Industries
The ENTITY.
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Posted - 2008.04.15 20:30:00 -
[20]
well to stop a cap jumping all you need are the following a neut domi with cap rigs and cap chargers once the 95% cap has gone which i imange will be fast the cap has become vunerable enough because it cant jump i believe a anti pirate corp did this when there was a mothership camping a low sec gate between high sec and low sec
they had like 4 neut domi and pratice there bumping skills and then called for cap ship help to take it down
they bropught 3 more after that but there not impossible to kill
just need planning
O_O WHY DID I READ THIS WHY CLONE WHY O_O
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Naqam
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Posted - 2008.04.15 20:40:00 -
[21]
Capitals...
ignore them?
...
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
LoneStar Industries
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.04.15 20:42:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
Capitals...
ignore them?
Smartast idea so far. Ignore capitals and see them no moar.
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Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Recruitment
-KB- |
ArmyOfMe
hirr
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.04.15 20:45:00 -
[23]
sorry, i just didnt manage to get myself to read more then the first couple of lines.
we have all heard these whines before, so please get over it and adapt
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Shadow Joy
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Posted - 2008.04.15 20:52:00 -
[24]
If you don't like capital, feel free to give me all of yours.
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DroneCommander
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.15 20:54:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Shadow Joy
If you don't like capital, feel free to give me all of yours.
He doesn't have any Capitals his shift key must be broken.
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Mika Meroko
Minmatar
Crayon Posting Inc
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Posted - 2008.04.15 20:55:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Mika Meroko on 15/04/2008 20:56:21
op's point being?
(Cap ships can die you know...)
edit: oh and torp raven with max skills are nice against caps =P...yes, I am aware the range got nerfed...
(since you get to select dmg type and all..)
or just any Large minitar BS...(arties!!!!)
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Lanu
Caldari
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2008.04.15 21:01:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Smartast idea so far. Ignore capitals and see them no moar.
There is no "capitals"
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Zurrar
Gallente
Epiphyte Mining and Exploration
Combined Planetary Union
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Posted - 2008.04.15 21:45:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Zurrar on 15/04/2008 21:50:12
um... my chimera tanks much more than 2.5k dps. your spelling sucks. and one year of training, just for the ability to undock the capital, then 3-4 months training for support skills, then 3 months training for the other capital, they really need to be the way they are. THEY ARE CAPITALS, kings of eve, the pay off for all those months of training. not to mention the cost, the logistics. and any smart gang can kill carriers. a dread that goes into seige mode is stuck and cant hit a bs going full speed. Capitals are balanced, you expect to take normal ships and counter a equal number of capitals?? its like saying 20 cruisers vs 20 battleships is unbalanced, because it is. And a HIC is a counter to carriers, a good bs force can kill a dread or carrier easily if done right. Hot drops are also another way of killing capitals. There are counters there your probably just too young to even fly a capital. It takes lots of logistics to fly capitals well, with out the risk of being screwed over by a few ships. Capitals are fine leave them alone... i just wish insurance was cheaper/payed more.
Originally by: Darla Dawson
Quit, and go play wow
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Corwain
Gallente
DIE WITH HONOUR
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Posted - 2008.04.15 21:55:00 -
[29]
I'd say the main problem with capitals is how easy they are to hotdrop on people. Cyno was supposed to restrict their movement, not enhance it from what I can tell. I don't claim to know the devs mind though.
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Distortion| Distortion 2 Preview |
Cailais
Amarr
VITOC
Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2008.04.15 23:21:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Corwain
I'd say the main problem with capitals is how easy they are to hotdrop on people. Cyno was supposed to restrict their movement, not enhance it from what I can tell. I don't claim to know the devs mind though.
I agree to an extent - shouldnt it work the other way around; capitals are able to drop, or rather catapult, ships into other systems?
C.
New Scanner Idea!
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