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Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.17 10:27:00 - [1] I personally love my sentinal and I think the only thing I would ever consider changing is the weeniest bit more cap but apart from that it rocks.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.17 11:07:00 - [2] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Delichon Don't look at the "54 cap per sec" thingy. Sentinel delivers 300 cap penalty from 1 hit. Meaning - it alpha-dries an inty. No point, no web, no MWD, no nothing. Than you only need 1 neut to keep the inty dry. If anything, I would fly a Sentinel over any other EAF. It still sucks. Kitsune is simply by far the best EAS. I'd love to see a kitsune try and take down a half decent cruiser solo.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.17 11:30:00 - [3] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Dheorl I'd love to see a kitsune try and take down a half decent cruiser solo. I'd like you to show me a solo cruiser kill in a sentinel. I'm pretty sure you make up alot of stuff. (I know it is possible but it doesn't mean anyone has done it) Even if you manage to show me one case I could solo that cruiser in a T1 frig aswell. I would but I don't have a killboard atm. I'll try and drag up a kill someone else has done if I can find one. After having a quick flick through battle clinic to see if you have actually flown a sentinel no wonder you can't do anything with it. You have quite possibly the worst fit I've seen.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.17 11:43:00 - [4] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 17/04/2008 11:32:53 Originally by: Dheorl I would but I don't have a killboard atm. I'll try and drag up a kill someone else has done if I can find one. After having a quick flick through battle clinic to see if you have actually flown a sentinel no wonder you can't do anything with it. You have quite possibly the worst fit I've seen. My fit has nothing to do with the absence of solo sentinel cruiser kills. Show me these mythical kills. No, your fit does however probably have something to do with why you think the sentinel is so rubbish. Still trying to find solo kills. Haven't yet found a way of searching for ship type though which makes it alot harder. Maybe I'm just being a nubbins.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.17 12:48:00 - [5] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Zhecao Vai I have a little bit of experience flying the Sentinel around in gangs and in the fifth tournament, and I think that it's a fine gang ship. It can cruise around, apply TDs, and keep itself entertained by chasing interceptors and frigates around. The Kitsune is probably more useful in protracted fights, but I would say that just represents the fact that ECM is stronger than other electronic warfare right now. Exactly. Frigs either tackle or they disrupt. ECM >> TDs and webs tackle >> neuts. Sentinel is a half assed ship. You seem to be forgetting it can fit 3 bonused TD's which you put in the same class of usefulness as webs/tackle.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.17 13:01:00 - [6] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Dheorl You seem to be forgetting it can fit 3 bonused TD's which you put in the same class of usefulness as webs/tackle. Ok simply put. If there is one ecm ship and one long range web ship in your little-medium sized gang there is no need for a sentinel nor a curse. What, so in say a 10 man gang you can effectivly knock everyone out of the fight with just those 2 ships? Now if you bring in a curse as well you probably can.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.17 14:26:00 - [7] Originally by: None Oftheabove Edited by: None Oftheabove on 17/04/2008 14:20:13 Quote: Meaning - it alpha-dries an inty. No point, no web, no MWD, no nothing. The issue is: * Even after you've nuked its cap, an mwdless but unwebbed interceptor is still moving faster than an mwding interceptor with two webs. * If a single battleship w/heavy neut or nano-hac w/medium neut shows up (which is a large percentage of pvp-fitted ships), your capacitor warfare is useless because you cannot afford to get anywhere near those ships. I understand that the Sentinel is the better solo ship - and if running around killing newbies in frigates is your thing, it could do all right. However, for fulfilling its intended role in gang warfare, I don't see how you can dispute that the Sentinel is much worse than the other two EAS (It's not even worth mentioning the stillborn Keres). If you get large neuts show up in the fight than the hyena is going to be just as useless. The point with nuking the cap of ceptors though is that they then either have a choice of running with their last burst of speed and escaping or dying, both of which help you gang and the sentinel is just as effective at getting rid of the threat of ceptors as the hyena is. The fact that it uses it's highs to do this means that it has its meds free to help protect your gang against the other ships at the same time and also has a nice drone bay which adds a bit of variety (you can either have ECM drones and just jam up all the annoying little frigs or damage drones to help break some of the tougher tanks or rep drones to get your gang mates back up to scratch after the fight). Tbh I like it and intend to carry on flying it and pimping it more and more as time goes on.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.18 11:05:00 - [8] I tell you what lyria. Seeing as if I post a killmail your most likely gona either a) say its a pile of bullcrap or b) say you could do the same in a t1 frig why doesn't one of us fight you. I'm sure others apart from me in this thread would be happy to do this but if not then I will. Seeing as I'd be the agressor I think it's fair thats I have some say in what ship you fly (don't worry, I won't tell you to fight me in a osprey) and you can't fit specifically to combat my ship. Apart from that anything goes, just give me some idea of when your online.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.18 11:33:00 - [9] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Dheorl I tell you what lyria. Seeing as if I post a killmail your most likely gona either a) say its a pile of bullcrap or b) say you could do the same in a t1 frig why doesn't one of us fight you. I'm sure others apart from me in this thread would be happy to do this but if not then I will. Seeing as I'd be the agressor I think it's fair thats I have some say in what ship you fly (don't worry, I won't tell you to fight me in a osprey) and you can't fit specifically to combat my ship. Apart from that anything goes, just give me some idea of when your online. You're going to fight me in a curse? No, in a sentinel.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:07:00 - [10] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 18/04/2008 12:04:45 Originally by: Dheorl No, in a sentinel. And you want me in what? Like an omen? Meh, dunno, what ships do you fly?
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:13:00 - [11] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Dheorl Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 18/04/2008 12:04:45 Originally by: Dheorl No, in a sentinel. And you want me in what? Like an omen? Meh, dunno, what ships do you fly? Well I can't fly anything big if you're going to be in a sentinel. BCs and BSs and HACs will destroy your sentinel. T1 cruisers is all I can think of that might be intresting. If you win you prove that sentinel can kill something bigger then a frig, if I win I prove sentinel can't kill anything. Dunno, BC could be an interesting challange. What bout a standard fit harb?
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:25:00 - [12] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Dheorl Dunno, BC could be an interesting challange. What bout a standard fit harb? Are you going to fit your sentinel standard? Does standard mean no light drones on the harbinger? Yes standard does mean no light drones and yes I will be using the fit I always use.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:29:00 - [13] If you feel it would be unfair with you in a harb i'd be happy to fight you in a maller seeing as this argument was originally about taking down a cruiser.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:39:00 - [14] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Dheorl If you feel it would be unfair with you in a harb i'd be happy to fight you in a maller seeing as this argument was originally about taking down a cruiser. Why are you trying to pick cruisers without drone bay? It is quite normal to face cruisers with drone bays. Thats the point though. I wouldn't on purpsoe engage a cruiser which is likely to have t2 light drones. That still leaves me open to attack mallers, harbs and rax's with absolutly no worry of dying which also happen to all be reasonably common PvP ships. All they can do is sit there and try and pop my drones whilst they slowly die. I can fight ships with drone bays if I don't expect the user to have decent drone skills which leave me still able to attack omens, caracals and moas (I could of course attack stuff like augorors but you never see them and yes you probably could kill them in a t1 frig)
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:45:00 - [15] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Dheorl Thats the point though. I wouldn't on purpsoe engage a cruiser which is likely to have t2 light drones. That still leaves me open to attack mallers, harbs and rax's with absolutly no worry of dying which also happen to all be reasonably common PvP ships. All they can do is sit there and try and pop my drones whilst they slowly die. I can fight ships with drone bays if I don't expect the user to have decent drone skills which leave me still able to attack omens, caracals and moas (I could of course attack stuff like augorors but you never see them and yes you probably could kill them in a t1 frig) Well thats the thing. You have to catch one of those ships at a belt or theyll get away. I mean many of those ships would be killable with a beam sader too. A few of them could probably permatank a beamsaders damage though (depedning on setup of course) which is where the sentinels cap warfare comes into play. Anyways, whats your point? It doesn't mean a sentinel can't kill them. I mean to kill most things a vaga has to catch them in a belt otherwise anything cruiser and up can jump or dock but it doesn't mean that it's not a reasonable PvP ship.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.18 13:06:00 - [16] Originally by: Pilgrippa Even a webbed, neuted crow at 1km will still kill it before it's 4 light drones can return the favour. How do you figure that one out - crow has about 100 more effective hp but does about 20 less dps.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.18 13:22:00 - [17] Originally by: Pilgrippa Originally by: Dheorl Originally by: Pilgrippa Even a webbed, neuted crow at 1km will still kill it before it's 4 light drones can return the favour. How do you figure that one out - crow has about 100 more effective hp but does about 20 less dps. Lots of Sisi tests. Step away from the EFT. A crow will get a couple volleys off before you can catch him(if you do), and a couple more before your drones start damaging him. It's kinetic bonus works against your kinetic weakness. If you tank for kinetic, you'll never catch him, and he'll still kill you. Sorry, when you said neuted sitting at 1km I thought you meant as in just a straight out slug fest from 100%hp down to nothing.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.18 13:49:00 - [18] We gona have a duel then lyria or do you accept that there are quite a few cruisers that the sentinel can reasonably kill. Hell, soon I'll be able to engage any cruiser in mine but for the moment I'm staying away from T2 light drones when I can avoid it.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.18 14:04:00 - [19] Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 18/04/2008 13:54:14 Originally by: Pilgrippa Originally by: Dheorl Sorry, when you said neuted sitting at 1km I thought you meant as in just a straight out slug fest from 100%hp down to nothing. Oh right, well that's not really a realistic scenario, so it's not really what I meant. It's simply the ideal place for a sentinel (or any ship) to have a crow. To get a crow to 1km and in your clutches with a sentinel requires taking a lot of damage first, which is the main reason why a crow will usually win a straight up fight. Not just a crow, lots of other ships can also easaly kill a sentinal. A Plated kestrel would create a lot of problems as well. But main issue is cathing targets. Sentinal lacks range on nos/neuts and more importantly, its just not reasonable to expect a sentinal to catch 10k/sec crows etc. Sentinal is basically a poor mans ship. The sentinal is more a afterthought than anything else. I don't know why someone would boher to fly one unless they cannot afford a heretic/cepter or even a curse, and even then it does not make that much sense. If the sentinal could use a cov ops cloak, then yes, it suddenly becomes useful. It fills in a niche as a combat cov ops. But as it stands, it basically looks like little thought is put in how someone is meant to use one in real pvp as opposed to "lets fly this for a laugh" Oh no, you have to stay clear of missile ships... so does basically every other nano ship in the game. 20km isn't exactly that bad a range NOS wise, same as hyena gets with it's webs. Also sentinel can kill more stuff than ceptors can solo. If a crow came up to my vengeance (just an example) and starting letting of missiles I'd sit there and laugh and wait for it to give up. If a sentinel did it I'd start thinking O **** and trying lobbing jav rockets at it to little effect whilst loosing all my cap and dieing.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.19 13:36:00 - [20] Luria, are we gona have this fight or not. You have a choice now really. Either fight me, accept there are quite a few cruisers/BC's I could kill 1 on 1 or in my eyes you don't really have a leg to stand on.

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