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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2008.04.18 21:02:00 - [31] Originally by: CCP Prism X Even more seriously. A man who deserves all my respect spent a whole lot of his younger years to generate a seeder which produced the current EVE universe. And if forum rumor is true, used the number 42 as the seed... Not that that has much baring on this thread. Just a fun fact(?).
Penguin21	Posted - 2008.04.18 21:07:00 - [32] I think that the EVE Universe does have a lot of great in depth storyline to it. And I do respect those who helped develop it. I was just suggesting that things like density of planets should be reduced by a magnitude of 1000. They would make much more sense that way. They all seem to be inflated in the same way. Also I wasn't trying to comment on any astrophysics, that is not my field, but chemistry is and a current density of that magnitude would be impressive.
winthrowe Gallente Node Alpha Defense Research	Posted - 2008.04.18 21:21:00 - [33] Edited by: winthrowe on 18/04/2008 21:24:36 Originally by: CCP Prism X Even more seriously. A man who deserves all my respect spent a whole lot of his younger years to generate a seeder which produced the current EVE universe. That seeder, and the whole map design/generation process is something I'd very much love to get more information on; not so much the essentially meaningless stuff like planetary masses and such, but the key building blocks of the space we live in, the security status, station/agent layout, and gate network. How did it come to be that there are islands of highsec and lowsec? why are certain places more interconnected than others? Agent clusters? was it all the generator, or were there many late map tweaking beer sessions in the alpha? if anyone has any ancient forum posts, bring them up, otherwise it might be good dev blog material Originally by: Penguin21 I think that the EVE Universe does have a lot of great in depth storyline to it. And I do respect those who helped develop it. I was just suggesting that things like density of planets should be reduced by a magnitude of 1000. They would make much more sense that way. They all seem to be inflated in the same way. Also I wasn't trying to comment on any astrophysics, that is not my field, but chemistry is and a current density of that magnitude would be impressive. I maybe read somewhere that there was a unit error, and kg/m3 was mistaken for g/cm3. would that be sensible?
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2008.04.18 21:34:00 - [34] Originally by: winthrowe was it all the generator, or were there many late map tweaking beer sessions in the alpha? if anyone has any ancient forum posts, bring them up, otherwise it might be good dev blog material From memory, I believe the seeder was based on the principles of crystal growth, and the vast majority of the galaxy is structured in that way. I'm not sure what happened in the alpha and beta stages, but there have been manual changes over the years as eve developed. The main ones that come to mind are: 1) The addition and subsequent removal of the highway jumps (these used to link the 4 empires so you could hop between them all in a couple of jumps once you got to the highway). 2) The addition of the "smuggler gates", which are the gates deep in 0.0 that join the otherwise separate "arms" of 0.0 together. 3) There were also a number of extra low-sec to 0.0 jumps added to try and stop the access routes being camped quite as much. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2008.04.18 21:42:00 - [35] Originally by: Matthew 1) The addition and subsequent removal of the highway jumps (these used to link the 4 empires so you could hop between them all in a couple of jumps once you got to the highway). 2) The addition of the "smuggler gates", which are the gates deep in 0.0 that join the otherwise separate "arms" of 0.0 together. 3) There were also a number of extra low-sec to 0.0 jumps added to try and stop the access routes being camped quite as much. Don't forget the gates added in the "Less traffic through Jita" patch. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.18 22:03:00 - [36] PRism, can you also make a job for me? I know you love me, and I know that CCP needs a staff photographer. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Kyanzes Amarr Utopian Research I.E.L. The ENTITY.	Posted - 2008.04.18 23:25:00 - [37] OP: Have you noticed that planets don't orbit their stars? --------------------------------------------- GET TO THE CHOPPA!!! The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
CrayC Gallente CrayC Inc.	Posted - 2008.04.18 23:55:00 - [38] Originally by: Roy Batty68 Originally by: CCP Prism X Even more seriously. A man who deserves all my respect spent a whole lot of his younger years to generate a seeder which produced the current EVE universe. And if forum rumor is true, used the number 42 as the seed... That is no rumour, he said it himself during the first fanfest, when he told about HOW he did it...
Assassin Akah	Posted - 2008.04.18 23:56:00 - [39] woaaaaaaah thats so uniterresting... and useless. Waste of time to change all that stuff anyway.
Kristiana Lee Caldari Flying Fox Industries	Posted - 2008.04.19 00:02:00 - [40] Originally by: Kyanzes OP: Have you noticed that planets don't orbit their stars? There are a few settled worlds that rotate at an insane rate as well.
Ryzolette Deer Hunters	Posted - 2008.04.19 00:21:00 - [41] Speaking of unrealistic descriptions, C&P is described as "A forum for bounty hunters and their prey" yet there are no bounty hunters. Support fixing the UI Support EVE History, fill in what you know
Daan Sai HAZCON Inc	Posted - 2008.04.19 00:51:00 - [42] Originally by: Penguin21 For example: Salah I has a density of 4100.6 g / cm^3 and a radius of 1,865 km or 1,865,000 meters. ... The average density of the earth is estimated by scientists to be 5.515 g / cm^3. It is simply a typo. Really. Change g/cm^3 to kg/m^3 and it all works, escape velocities, surface gravities and all. The only real problem is jump gates being smaller than their Schwartzchild radius, but I figure that they are game mechanics rather than physics.
Xen Gin Universal Mining Inc Forged Dominion	Posted - 2008.04.19 00:54:00 - [43] Edited by: Xen Gin on 19/04/2008 00:54:28 Originally by: CCP Prism X Edited by: CCP Prism X on 18/04/2008 20:47:54 Heh, based on the stats from the Amarr Homeworld they are, supposedly, utterly nocturnal pancake people. But seriously. You go get a doctors degree in astrophysics (cause otherwise I can't really trust you know everything about all things stellar). Afterwards commit yourself to get a job here as the resident astrophysicist, or just as a contractor. Convince my superior that he should devote my attention to you. Sit down with me and we'll discuss some sane ways to re-calculate these stats based on the planets orbit distance from their star of stellar class X, their sattelites and the effects of their distance from other orbital bodies of the same star, the systems distance from the center of the universe, the effects of the systems around it, shape of the constellation it is in along with the plethora of other effects which would define the celestials statistics. Obviously there's more to it than just that. I wouldn't really know as I didn't have much time to dive into astrophysics while I was getting my computer science degree. Won't be very easy to accomplish through the limited scope of T-SQL but where there is will there is a way, no? Even more seriously. A man who deserves all my respect spent a whole lot of his younger years to generate a seeder which produced the current EVE universe. I'm sure you mean no disrespect but at some point you realize you're losing yourself to the devil in the details and you arrive at a compromise. After all you're making an MMO rather than a perfect replica of the Big Bang. Furthermore a lot of other great people spent a portion of their lifetime creating the lore behind the EVE universe and I reckon none of them had the time to study astrophysics on the side as they had to generate content to keep their jobs. But I'm not kidding. You come to my desk with complex mathematics I can implement perfectly in X much time. I'll be happy to do it (and usually when people approach my desk I make a point out of making them understand they're diverting my attention from other things). But it has to be 100% perfect. 100%. I'm not going to waste my time to raise the bar from X% to Y% as it has zero gameplay effect and I do have things on my todo list which will imrpove the MMO we're making here. Don't get me wrong. There is nothing wrong with perfection in theory. It's the practical bit that gets me. If you can make it practical, I'll make it happen. Or you could, I don't know, maybe read wikipedia to get the relavent formulas/values etc, and make a script to change the values? Probably closer to more normal 'values' than whats currently used.
techzer0 IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.04.19 01:00:00 - [44] Originally by: CCP Prism X I'm sure you mean no disrespect but at some point you realize you're losing yourself to the devil in the details and you arrive at a compromise. After all you're making an MMO rather than a perfect replica of the Big Bang. /tinfoil hat on Assuming you believe that nothing can become something, then explode creating more things. /tinfoil hat As someone else pointed out I agree that the C&P forum needs the description "A forum for Pirates and their prey" Since bounty hunters don't exist ------------ Originally by: CCP Mitnal It's great being a puppetmaster
Dal Thrax Multiverse Corporation Cosmic Anomalies	Posted - 2008.04.19 01:28:00 - [45] Edited by: Dal Thrax on 19/04/2008 01:29:35 Originally by: CCP Prism X [ But I'm not kidding. You come to my desk with complex mathematics I can implement perfectly in X much time. I'll be happy to do it (and usually when people approach my desk I make a point out of making them understand they're diverting my attention from other things). But it has to be 100% perfect. 100%. I'm not going to waste my time to raise the bar from X% to Y% as it has zero gameplay effect and I do have things on my todo list which will imrpove the MMO we're making here. Don't get me wrong. There is nothing wrong with perfection in theory. It's the practical bit that gets me. If you can make it practical, I'll make it happen. Prism. I would suggest you review this GURPS Traveller First In If you are looking for something on which to base a universe generation function on. While not up to date with the latest in astrophysics, it probably gets close enough. Originally by: HEXXX In all seriousness; I think I made a miscalculation originally. . . We either need to fix this or fix our advertising.
Trathen	Posted - 2008.04.19 01:33:00 - [46] Hey guys whats going on he-- collapses from nerd rage
EnslaverOfMinmatar Amarr Adv Asteroid Mining and RD Sobaseki Corporation	Posted - 2008.04.19 01:36:00 - [47] OP, you're totally wrong in all of your calculations. Based on the fact that you can warp through a planet FTL, the density of each and every planet in EVE is 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 g/cm^3
Dex Nederland Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems	Posted - 2008.04.19 02:07:00 - [48] Edited by: Dex Nederland on 19/04/2008 02:08:12 This has been brought up more than once. PHDs in Astrophysics are not needed. CCP Prism X - the equations are already used based on everything I can tell from the client end of the game. So I suppose it goes back to which numbers and how the range of those numbers was determined. The mass, density, surface gravity, escape velocity, and radius (assuming surface) all in relate well. Equations where used for some of these numbers based on others involved. I found one inconsistency between the numbers themselves I found was the units on the comparison of mass to density was that g/cm^3 should be changed to kg/m^3 to be near accurate (1% difference due to rounding) instead of off by a magnitude of 1000. I can not check the relation between the orbit period and orbital radius. This is because there is no information given on the mass of the star. The last two numbers given, Temperature and Pressure could be interrelated, but there is critical information like what kind of elements make up the atmosphere missing to do a basic determination if they two are related correctly. So I think the problem really arises when these numbers do not relate well to what we warp to and see or when a planet is described as being terraformed or having a 'native' population. So this isn't a question of applying Astrophysics to the 'problem' but instead recognizing what the numbers mean. You do not need to be a high school graduate, let alone a PHD, to realize that 46 K is -227.15 degrees Celsius and really cold, not somewhere people are going to live like Luminaire VI (Gallente Prime). You just have to plug 46 K in C into Google and realize that is very very cold. There is a scale of where people can live, Iceland being colder than Hawaii. *Someone who can look up comparative information and equations on Wikipedia and plug in the numbers. Not an LDIS press release.
Daan Sai HAZCON Inc	Posted - 2008.04.19 02:09:00 - [49] Originally by: Xen Gin Or you could, I don't know, maybe read wikipedia to get the relavent formulas/values etc, and make a script to change the values? I repeat, the values are fine, just the units label is in cgs units by mistake, in SI units it works fine. The densities given are in kg/m^3, not g/cm^3. On this scale water has a density of 1000 kg/m^3, equivalent to 1 g/cm^3. The only problem is the units label in the dialog boxes, all the numbers are fine!!

CCP Prism X C C P	Posted - 2008.04.19 02:17:00 - [50] Oh.. I had no idea Wikipedia had a simple equation as to how a universe is formed... ... wait. No. You missed it the first time. This time wont be any different if experience serves me right. ~ Prism X EvE Database Developer Relocating your character to a cozy, secure container since 2006. Relocating your cozy, secure container to the EVE cemetery since 2008.

Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Ursa Stellar Initiative	Posted - 2008.04.19 02:19:00 - [51] Gelfiven IX - Moon 4: radius 293km, mass 7.5e+19 kg, density 709.2 g/cm^3 4/3 PI (293km)^3 = 1.053e+08 km^3 = 1.053e+26 cm^3 7.5e+22 g / 1.053e+26 cm^3 = 7.123e-4 g/cm^3 It should be pretty obvious that whomever did this forgot that since we're dealing with volumes, km^3 = 1e9 m^3 = 1e18 cm^3, not 1.e12 cm^3 as if we were dealing with area. --- Author of rTorrent, the BitTorrent client for real men and mice.
Furious Hawk Caldari Farlight Optic Council	Posted - 2008.04.19 02:25:00 - [52] Originally by: CCP Prism X class X, X much time, X% to Y% Prism X make good argument. Prism X pwned that noob. Prism X likes variables. Now we know why Prism X called Prism X. -------------------------------------------------- Everyone is entitled to my opinion.
DroneBay Diva AbChao Synchr0nicity	Posted - 2008.04.19 03:10:00 - [53] Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab Gelfiven IX - Moon 4: radius 293km, mass 7.5e+19 kg, density 709.2 g/cm^3 4/3 PI (293km)^3 = 1.053e+08 km^3 = 1.053e+26 cm^3 7.5e+22 g / 1.053e+26 cm^3 = 7.123e-4 g/cm^3 It should be pretty obvious that whomever did this forgot that since we're dealing with volumes, km^3 = 1e9 m^3 = 1e18 cm^3, not 1.e12 cm^3 as if we were dealing with area. I TOLD them it was 1.e12 cm^3!! _____________________________________________________________________________
Orar Ironfist Incarnation of Evil Nocturnal Legion	Posted - 2008.04.19 03:36:00 - [54] Originally by: Shionoya Risa You know eve is a game, right? Pirate for Life(no matter my sec)
Diek Ran Amarr Autonums	Posted - 2008.04.19 05:01:00 - [55] Originally by: Daan Sai It is simply a typo. Really. Change g/cm^3 to kg/m^3 and it all works, escape velocities, surface gravities and all. Ey, Prism X, instead of trying to appear superior I'd just listen to Daan and ask the 'seeder' what he thinks about it.
Idara Caldari Contraband Inc.	Posted - 2008.04.19 05:12:00 - [56] The player Titans (Erebus, Avatar, Rag and Lev) aren't the empire Titans that are described to "alter tides" FYI. Player titans are smaller ships, Empire ones are OMFGXBOXHUEG ships. Although I guess the events with the Gallente one that got stoeled a few years back didn't exactly work in the backstory's favour by the ship looking fairly small by today's ship sizes. --- in EVE - Idara
Shananigan	Posted - 2008.04.19 05:28:00 - [57] Originally by: Diek Ran Originally by: Daan Sai It is simply a typo. Really. Change g/cm^3 to kg/m^3 and it all works, escape velocities, surface gravities and all. Ey, Prism X, instead of trying to appear superior I'd just listen to Daan and ask the 'seeder' what he thinks about it. Yup you guys should listen to Daan, checks out good, and just seems like a simple mistake that wasnt ever noticed because no one has been as OCD as the OP :) After all this is a game and since we can't even go to our homeworlds it really matters not what they are.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.19 05:48:00 - [58] Originally by: CCP Prism X ------------------Sig-------------------------- Goons' greatest Pubbie!
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.04.19 06:02:00 - [59] I think it's a good thing that the devs turn from being crash test dummies to slapping the whiny teenagers in their face so they can cry all the way back to WoW. Black Hand.
Diek Ran Amarr Autonums	Posted - 2008.04.19 06:16:00 - [60] Originally by: Tobias Sjodin I think it's a good thing that the devs turn from being crash test dummies to slapping the whiny teenagers in their face so they can cry all the way back to WoW. Certainly a good method for CCP to make money in the future :/

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