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egegergergsdgedgege	Posted - 2008.04.22 12:01:00 - [1] I thought about a ship thats main purpose is to suck up damage from a enemy gamg. This has to be a ship that is likley to be called primary and at the same time has to be able to field a heavy tank. Also it should be cheap, because its likely to die under concentratet fire of a fleet. Icame up with a scorpion because its cheap, almost always primary and can have a nice tank due to eight medslots. I have two setups. Both deal damage like a wet towel, but thats not their purpose. The first setup is all about hitpoints. it has about 150,000 effective Hitpoints with my skills. The second setup is about sustained damage it tanks about 1200dps. I like the second more because i can support gang members with the shield transporters if im not primaried or the enemy switches the target. What do u think about the idea? [Scorpion, hitpoints] 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II Damage Control II Co-Processor II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Large Shield Transporter II Large Shield Transporter II Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Cruise Missile Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I [Scorpion, sustaind] Damage Control II Co-Processor II Co-Processor II Co-Processor II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 X-Large Shield Booster II X-Large Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier II Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II 'Malkuth' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Malkuth' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Malkuth' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Malkuth' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile Large Shield Transporter II Large Shield Transporter II Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Achran Dexx Caldari CompleXion Industries	Posted - 2008.04.22 12:04:00 - [2] Cap boosters aren't a good way of sustained tank, once you run out of charges you are going to go down like a wet towel.
Katarlia Simov Minmatar Cowboys From Hell	Posted - 2008.04.22 12:13:00 - [3] Both these ideas are awful. Remember that 'cheap' is a relative term with T1 ships, as they are insured to at least full value. And with that in mind, please god use a rokh or something similar. The scorpian has never been designed to have a tank. You can fit a reasonable one to it if you so choose, but this will maily have the effect of people laughing lots at your killmail. It is especially worth remembering that scoprians are normally targetted becuase of their ECM ability, and when an enemy gang realises that you won't go down easilly but aren't jamming them they will probably pull their fire onto more vulnerable targets. Ships that are good for baiting/taking punishment while still achieing things: Domi - Drones are a big threat and has plenty of space for tank since it doesn't have to fit guns Abbadon - Armor resist bonus is sexy and fits a mean set of guns. Rokh (kinda)- Shield resist bonus is sexy but made for range Drake - Shield resist bonus is sexy and has heavy missiles, which will probably out damage the scorp :)
Rutefly Amarr Freedom-Technologies	Posted - 2008.04.22 12:17:00 - [4] Originally by: Achran Dexx Cap boosters aren't a good way of sustained tank, once you run out of charges you are going to go down like a wet towel. If you expect to be called primary for a loooong time and is able to tank it, you need to find some real stupid opponents to pew with. If they cant budge you they try something else usually. Maybe passive tank to buy alot of time. But yes, its a horrible idea to begin with. You weaken your chances to win all in all, and just get to stay around longer b4 the inevitable. Id go for gank. 'Example. Veldspar roids tank against most damage types real well. Not many kills done by veldspar roids. PROOF!
El'Tar Caldari Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.04.22 12:19:00 - [5] He is using a Scorpion because it will be primary ( I assume ) ________________________________________________ ME BEING JESUS ******* CHRIST IN MY BATTLEWAGON OF DOOM
Corwain Gallente DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2008.04.22 12:19:00 - [6] Originally by: Katarlia Simov Remember that 'cheap' is a relative term with T1 ships, as they are insured to at least full value. And with that in mind, please god use a rokh or something similar. Yes, because a Rohk is so likely to be called primary before a Scorp. This trick will work great at being called primary as a kneejerk reaction, but they it'll either break (albeit slowly) or they'll figure out it's a baitship and change targets. Either way it could be useful. I've heard that the Scorp can be passive shield tanked for recharge pretty well. I haven't run the numbers but it is something to look into (if it's a better tank or not). Luckily it isn't a gallente ship so we probly won't have to deal with Pottsey barging into the thread. -- Distortion\| Distortion 2 Preview
Raymond Sterns Utopian Research I.E.L. The ENTITY.	Posted - 2008.04.22 14:18:00 - [7] Originally by: Katarlia Simov Rokh (kinda)- Shield resist bonus is sexy but made for range A Rohk can be a pretty good Blaster ship, albeit not as good as a Megathron. I would think a Brohk is like a giant Blaster Ferox. Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
mama guru Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.22 14:23:00 - [8] Originally by: Raymond Sterns Originally by: Katarlia Simov Rokh (kinda)- Shield resist bonus is sexy but made for range A Rohk can be a pretty good Blaster ship, albeit not as good as a Megathron. I would think a Brohk is like a giant Blaster Ferox. This is definately true, but i hate to say it the rokh is inferior to the megathron in so many ways that your gang is better of bringing a scorpion. And the argument that "not all caldari can use jammers" is about as reasonable as "not all gallente can use drones". It does not take long to train for T2 jammers and lvl 3-4 supportskills EVE is like the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMOs. If it's too hard, you are too weak.
egegergergsdgedgege	Posted - 2008.04.22 14:26:00 - [9] Originally by: Raymond Sterns Originally by: Katarlia Simov Rokh (kinda)- Shield resist bonus is sexy but made for range A Rohk can be a pretty good Blaster ship, albeit not as good as a Megathron. I would think a Brohk is like a giant Blaster Ferox. A Rock is a good ship. But i dont think it will be first target when other BS are around. I dont need a tank when nobody shoots at me. Its highly likely that a scorpion is first target A Rock not, because everbody expects it to have a mean tank.
Alowishus mUfFiN fAcToRy Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.04.22 14:28:00 - [10] Originally by: El'Tar He is using a Scorpion because it will be primary ( I assume ) This. Of course depending on how many enemies there are, actually using EWAR might be beneficial. But that's what cloaked Falcons are for. I would go the totally passive route and also use Slaves. Join The Muffin Factory

Omarvelous Destry's Lounge XIII Legio	Posted - 2008.04.22 14:31:00 - [11] Want 200,000 effective hitpoints? 3x 1600mm Rolled Tungsten Plates Damage Control II 3x Invulnerability Field II 5x Large Shield Extender II 4x Cruise Missile Launcher (Friend or Foe) 2x NOS/Shield Transfers/Rails/whatever 3x Core Defense Field Extenders For 0.0 swap out a LSE II for a 100MN MWD 37,577 Shields Resists in the 60's and 70's across the board. 22,586 Armor Hitpoints meh resists 6836 structure at 60% resists. You're slow, you hit for crap damage, and you can't tackle. But you're cap stable and able to take a severe beating. __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
Alowishus mUfFiN fAcToRy Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.04.22 14:41:00 - [12] Originally by: Omarvelous Want 200,000 effective hitpoints? 3x 1600mm Rolled Tungsten Plates Damage Control II 3x Invulnerability Field II 5x Large Shield Extender II 4x Cruise Missile Launcher (Friend or Foe) 2x NOS/Shield Transfers/Rails/whatever 3x Core Defense Field Extenders For 0.0 swap out a LSE II for a 100MN MWD 37,577 Shields Resists in the 60's and 70's across the board. 22,586 Armor Hitpoints meh resists 6836 structure at 60% resists. You're slow, you hit for crap damage, and you can't tackle. But you're cap stable and able to take a severe beating. I agree with this. It's no Abbadon but it has the added bonus of always being primaried, whereas Amarr ships are ignored. As a solo bait ship an Abbadon is superior but this Scorpion does have a role. For added fun put a Cyno on it. Join The Muffin Factory
Captator Universal Securities	Posted - 2008.04.22 14:53:00 - [13] you can get a 1400dps tank out of a scorpion with 1 booster and some boost amps and more hardeners as far as I remember, something like: XL booster, large injector, invul, em/kin/therm, 2 boost amps cannot remember rigs, something like core defence solidifiers and capacitor sa***uards.
egegergergsdgedgege	Posted - 2008.04.22 15:06:00 - [14] Originally by: Alowishus For added fun put a Cyno on it. Great Idea. I will think about that.
Nguyen VanPhuoc Minmatar The Halibuts	Posted - 2008.04.22 15:08:00 - [15] rokhs are great mission tanks but an organised gang always go for dps bs's first which is nice when you're flying a blaster rokh and get within range :D ___________________ What was that word young man!?!
Bronson Hughes Knights of the Wild Visions of Warfare	Posted - 2008.04.22 15:10:00 - [16] Uber tank bait ship + cyno = fun. Works best when you have some tacklers warp in just as you drop the cyno. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge XIII Legio	Posted - 2008.04.22 15:27:00 - [17] Originally by: Captator you can get a 1400dps tank out of a scorpion with 1 booster and some boost amps and more hardeners as far as I remember, something like: XL booster, large injector, invul, em/kin/therm, 2 boost amps cannot remember rigs, something like core defence solidifiers and capacitor sa***uards. You mean... 3x Power Diagnostic Unit II Damage Control Unit II X-Large Shield Booster II 3x Shield Boost Amp II 3x Invulnerability Field II Heavy Cap Injector II 4x Cruise Launchers 2x heavy NOS 3x Core Defence Operational Solidifiers 1655 DPS tanked omni (resists in 60's and 70's) - lasts 2min 42 sec without NOS. (Rich man with HG crystal set 2509 DPS, or LG set 2194 DPS) Swap out a solidifier rig for a Safe-guard rig... 1416 DPS tanked for 7 min without NOS. (Rich man with HG crystal set 2142 DPS, or LG set 1874 DPS) Its an interesting theoretical active tank with 8 slots at your disposal. However you have no speed, little attack, and no tackle - did I mention a smart enemy with neuts would ruin your day? 2x operational solidifiers and a safe-guard is a good tank to sustainability tradeoff - the fight shouldn't last longer than 7 min for a small gang. If you're in a bigger gang and the fight will take time - I'd go for the 200k hitpoint buffer tank. __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge XIII Legio	Posted - 2008.04.22 15:30:00 - [18] Originally by: Alowishus For added fun put a Cyno on it. Probably the best mod to put in your high slots for these 'hoover' setups. Since the tanks I gave are really overkill - fit a scram and web to make your trapped target cry when the cyno lights up... __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
Gawain Hill	Posted - 2008.04.22 15:56:00 - [19] i always thought the scorp had a pretty decent ecm tank what with those 8 mid slots for ecm and some low slots for the ecm booster thingy :S
egegergergsdgedgege	Posted - 2008.04.22 16:41:00 - [20] Originally by: Gawain Hill i always thought the scorp had a pretty decent ecm tank what with those 8 mid slots for ecm and some low slots for the ecm booster thingy :S Indeed. Thats because the Scorpion is almost always primary.

Wideen Caldari Eon Project Legion of Honor	Posted - 2008.04.22 16:44:00 - [21] Sitting duck abaddon; +231k effective HP. Even has +500 dps! [Abaddon, Effective HP] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I
AnKahn Caldari Occassus Republica DeStInY.	Posted - 2008.04.22 16:56:00 - [22] Command ships often take on this role. FCs want the command ship on the killmail but in the time it takes to kill one his whole fleet is gone. So you trade one command ship for 3-4 BS. You win the engagement but sigh when the 3-4 (or more) BS are noob fitted. Only an idiot FC would keep shooting at a ship that does not go down in maybe 90 sec. Like chess you hope the early exchanges leave you at advantage. And if you keep fighting the same people, tricks only work once.
LITTLE W0LF	Posted - 2008.04.22 19:09:00 - [23] Originally by: AnKahn Only an idiot FC would keep shooting at a ship that does not go down in maybe 90 sec. In an ideal world. In the real world the FC might make an informed decision to switch targets but when his fleet is jammed and tackled, and see a cyno popped, getting them to switch targets as they're panicking and dying may be difficult. 90 seconds is a long battle, by the way. I'd have said 30 seconds.
AnKahn Caldari Occassus Republica DeStInY.	Posted - 2008.04.22 19:28:00 - [24] Originally by: LITTLE W0LF Originally by: AnKahn Only an idiot FC would keep shooting at a ship that does not go down in maybe 90 sec. In an ideal world. In the real world the FC might make an informed decision to switch targets but when his fleet is jammed and tackled, and see a cyno popped, getting them to switch targets as they're panicking and dying may be difficult. 90 seconds is a long battle, by the way. I'd have said 30 seconds. As one of those people who easily panics, I agree with your statement. Fortunately the way to learn how not to panic is to loose a few ships and keep on trying. So, I guess its all good. Time slows down for me in battle, so I'm not a good judge of how long one lasts. The underlying theme here is the perpetual question of gank vs. tank. Also the min/max theory. So yes, an all tank ship will confuse a 30 sec EvE battle. An all gank ship will have similar results.
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2008.04.22 22:28:00 - [25] Silly version - requires a PG8 implant & 1 relatively cheap officer RCU, but no T2 rigs. Works best with plenty of remote cap transfer help. [Maelstrom, Bait] Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Selynne's Modified Reactor Control Unit Capital Shield Booster I Heat Dissipation Amplifier II Photon Scattering Field II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Cynosural Field Generator I Ancillary Current Router I Ancillary Current Router I Ancillary Current Router I Each activation nets you almost 10k shield HP - a boost amp would be redundant as the setup only has 10k shields.
Tai Paktu Mortis Incarnatus	Posted - 2008.04.22 22:39:00 - [26] Alternatively, you run your Scorp with 3x Trimarks, a Damage Control and a bunch of 1600 Tungstens in the lows, as many as you feel comfortable with, and then actually fit jammers in your mids and a couple remote reps in your highs. Lots of effective hitpoints, e-war capable, and primary. I've flown this set-up mysel a couple times or have had at least one of these in gang with me and we have literally had the enemy gang switch primary because they couldn't kill the Scorp (keep in mind we are spider tanking).
Atwa Awta Fusion Enterprises Ltd Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.04.22 22:48:00 - [27] Shield tank Scorpion make a good bait ship, no one expects it
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2008.04.23 00:08:00 - [28] pfft. You need to change your name to this: "aaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaa" or something if you want to get primaried
Falcon Troy Caldari Awesome People Secret Corp	Posted - 2008.04.23 00:24:00 - [29] Hull tanked Megathron? _____________ Hai.
The Tzar	Posted - 2008.04.23 11:08:00 - [30] Originally by: mama guru Originally by: Raymond Sterns Originally by: Katarlia Simov Rokh (kinda)- Shield resist bonus is sexy but made for range A Rohk can be a pretty good Blaster ship, albeit not as good as a Megathron. I would think a Brohk is like a giant Blaster Ferox. This is definately true, but i hate to say it the rokh is inferior to the megathron in so many ways that your gang is better of bringing a scorpion. And the argument that "not all caldari can use jammers" is about as reasonable as "not all gallente can use drones". It does not take long to train for T2 jammers and lvl 3-4 supportskills Lol, blasterokh with good skills will nail any mega setup solo. Better tank, better range, better mobility and because you can kite well out of mega's pathetic 5km optimal you will receive a fraction of the mega's damage whilst it will receive full damage at 20km from you. __________________________________________ 'Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear intelligent until they speak' __________________________________________



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