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Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2008.07.26 06:04:00 - [211] youve ma'am have made the best argument for removing local, I appauld your effort and am glad I voted for you. But like you said the ship scanner will of course need improvements, user friendlness and a more active state/role/useability. Like narrowing your scanner would be shown as a graphical representation on the scanner page by reducing the drawn range rings size, any hits will register accross the range of the as an arc (so you cant tell excatly where they are at the range but you know they are there at that range) hopefully this could be real time info instead of constantly hitting the scan button. Another thing someone mentioned passive scanning, turning on passive makes the scanner 'sweep' and record hits if they pop, bigger the angle shorter the range but better coverage and faster speed on the sweep where a narrowband sweep will give best range but slowest scan you also cant aim this scanner. Active would have 'aimable' scanners but would be very noisy in themselves. Putting results on overview would make it useable too or at least make the results rippable from the main scanner window and resizable on its own. We could possibly see an apperance of ships and more gear based around this mechanic (hacking ships that could change thier and neary ships thier IFF friendly instead of hostile/netural while they perform thier havok, a mini capitol could act as a mobile scanning platform, skills to improve sweep speed and scan resolution) Of course the idea only covers onboard scanners a deployable scanner would be all the more better than the ship's provided info. Also any room for a system wide distress beacon launch? A warpable to neutral beacon visible system wide as well might be used for baits traps and other fun things New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2008.07.26 06:10:00 - [212] Edited by: Nova Fox on 26/07/2008 06:10:56 Also if you remove maps statistics would it be possible to have a interstellar probe launch platform? POS anchorable observatory? Something that would launch a probe systems away and spill that information about that system but only certain specifics like traffic, cyno activations, and large object population. Of course homebase players can find this probe and destroy it. Also my ears perked up to devs saying how they want to add in FW elements to 0.0 conquering. This included having gate guns that have to be manned, if local is removed would you pefer these become automated and squeal alerts if they are attacked or attacking to help ease patrols and personal required to maintain space? Once again hackers could come into play allowing disabling of the guns IFF scanners letting hostile fleets though untouched. Also since these changes are so sweeping I purpose the replacement mechanics to be installed first and fully tested before removing the local. New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister
Sebastien Starstrider Minmatar Ship Construction Services	Posted - 2008.07.26 08:05:00 - [213] Admittedly I haven't read through all of the thread's responses, but I'd still like to give my own input on the matter. I'm all for removing local. I think it would be great and have many tactical advantages. Scanning would become more universally used, and not so much just by those persons that wanted to track down that person in local that seems to be evading them. I would think that it might also promote more opportunity in 0.0 security areas for those corporations and alliances without space of their own. It would become harder to detect enemy presence in some backwater outpost that might be "claimed" but not necessarily defended unless people pop onto local. Maybe we'd see some of the larger organizations scramble to put forth effective intelligence and eventually give up on such huge land claims, deciding it wasn't worth the upkeep? Perhaps they'd resort to taking smaller areas, where they could possess effective intel and quick response times. I'm just thinking of the possibilities here, of course. I've not been playing long enough to judge the full impact it may have, but I'd be more than happy to see it implemented nonetheless.
Gone'Postal Minmatar Vengeance 8 Interceptors	Posted - 2008.07.26 09:24:00 - [214] Originally by: Jade Constantine What have I forgotten? Lag. The plan and tactic in the story is mute if noone can control there ship. Sarcasm off. -V8I-
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.07.26 09:39:00 - [215] If you want to remove local, you need a whole host of things changed. Aside from the map giving away your position if you're a ratter, the truesec status of a system also gives you away. If I were a gankfleet, all I would have to do is go to a -1.0 truesec system and I would be guaranteed to have people out and about ratting. Don't need anything for that. But most of the things you already touched upon. If I had to describe an ideal system where there was no local, it would be like this: 1. Asteroid belts not visible on scanner, but need to be probed out. Or basically, remove all asteroid belts, and increase the number of exploration plexes by a factor of anywhere between 3 and 10. 2. Longrange permanent scanners. And with variation between shiptypes. A frigate could have the 15 AU scanner, but a battleship should have a 75 AU scanner and a carrier should have a 150 AU scanner. 3. Ability to set passive warnings so you know when people are warping in. 4. IFF transponder tech. I.e. I need to be able to see if that guy warping in is a friendly. 5. Ability to see whether ships are in use or powered down and remove those from the scanner. I.e. parked ships at a POS need to be filtered out if so desired. 6. Ability to detect the presence of cloaked ships. Not pinpoint em, but general presence in the area. You can make it a bit chance-based, and/or require a specific module, but the ability to at least detect is very important. Thats the most important things I can think of at this point.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.07.26 10:02:00 - [216] First off: Intelligence needs to be more proactive, and it's own game mechanic. So I completely agree with the removal of the instant intel with local and the statistics info from map. Secondly: This change is a boon to pirates AND carebears. It helps pirates, by allowing them to actually set traps at locations other than gates. They can camp roid belts with a scout, and drag the other ships from roaming safespots. And carebears benefit by having a modest level of protection by not being immediately identified when a pirate enters system. Third: New tools should be added that gives an alliance the means to get system intelligence (anchored scanning dishes), and gives players the ability to make intelligence gathering their key function (recon probes, etc). Fourth and Final: Now, make this information available to fleet commanders (through scout assignments) and alliance leaders (through tactical maps). Make it so that having these assets in place and using gathering intelligence actively is a important as having a tackler in your group. - A player or corporation shouldn't be able to see what's happening in another 0.0 system all the way across the map. If you don't have assets there or the rights to check those assets (a radar dish sitting in one of your covert POS's), the place is unknown to you. - Players of all pursuasions should be able to avoid conflict simply by watching a chat channel. I've used both myself. I know how EASY and i-win it is. If I'm in a carebear setup, some identified comes in local, my cloak goes up and I can wait them out. If I am in a corp war or tactical situation, and a blob of enemy enter system, I'll go to station and either log or go afk. It's too simple. - Players need to be proactive about using scanners and protecting themselves. Smart fleets already have scouts ranging ahead and behind. This will make it crucial for survival, and make you post scouts to your sides as well. I'm 100% for this, and have been for two+ years now. Please take the I-win button away, and make it mysterious again. Genesis Project
Carrier Eleven Gallente EVE Posting Service	Posted - 2008.07.26 11:14:00 - [217] Remove local, every two-bit lowsec pirates gankers wet dream. you go!! This Idea while popular with the small group posting here, would not set well with the masses.
ceyriot Entropians on Vacation	Posted - 2008.07.26 12:05:00 - [218] Love the idea, and there really does need to be some way of seeing cloaked people if this goes into effect or cloaked guys/recons/whatever will become overpowered. Its been said in the thread before, I know, but just my thought. Faction Store - Killboard
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.07.26 17:09:00 - [219] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 26/07/2008 17:09:24 Wow Kinky! My thread is back from the dead. I support! Star Fraction \| Dare to Dream!
Neth'Rae Gallente Decorum Inc Tygris Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.26 18:49:00 - [220] Edited by: Neth''Rae on 26/07/2008 18:50:28 Originally by: Astria Tiphareth Overall, the way I see local at the moment is vastly over-powered, but also very simple to implement and to use. On the other hand, it's pretty trivial to write a radar system or something similar for every ship so you get an idea of what's out there, and sensor specifics and warp spikes and all that jazz can be incorporated pretty easily. I even have visions of a solar system map with compiled data for fleet commanders, the way real naval battles are conducted... The question is does it benefit the game? Not knowing what is out there enables more tactics, more ways to confuse and defeat your foe. Feints, lures, jamming, all become possible. As already mentioned cloaks need some suitable proximity warning (I would suggest only if moving, otherwise ambushes go out the window) otherwise they become far far too powerful. Do players have time and coordination enough to pull these sorts of things off? One issue that does come to mind: how much of an intel tool can scanning be given the use of gates? Ultimately everyone has to come through one. If scanning replaced local by some means, would this just lead to gatecamps galore? Lets assume for a moment it wouldn't, perhaps simply due to time-zones... Conversely, not knowing what is out there reduces the ability to actually engage the enemy. For comparison, a typical submarine engagement can last days if not weeks trying to hunt the other without giving away your own position. PvP has to happen reasonably quickly otherwise it's just a time-sink with no satisfaction at all. In short, you need a balance. Whatever scanning system is implemented needs to be easy to use, just powerful enough that it doesn't take hours to find an enemy, and just underpowered enough that it doesn't immediately replace local, in which case you've achieved nothing. I could mention how real carrier battles are theorised (since we've not really had one in any modern military) and all about the choice to radiate or not, scouting, passive sensors, active sensors, (a lot of the same applies in different ways to submarine combat) but it's really all fluff as far as EVE is concerned. Nice to have, not the core of the concept. I'm all for a scanning system, and seen some great ideas like spotting concentrations of ships, but it must be easy to use, still enable PvP, and not protect attackers so much that people daren't set foot outside a station. Heck, put it in empire and low-sec, I don't see why they need any special treatment. Actually the comparison to naval and submarine combat is pretty spot on as to what similar mechanics I'd like to see :) I got stuck a few hours in a game called 'silent hunter 4' after watching the movie Das Boot, and I got to say submarine combat is awesome, though the game has a fast-forward function that lets you roam the pacific in 8000 times faster than normal, because otherwise traveling would take weeks. I also just learned to use the hydrophone, it's so exciting listening and hearing the enemy destroyers engines, and at which bearing they are located. And it's really scary when you're in the command room in silent running mode and you suddenly hear the sound of the enemy ships active sonar and shortly after depth charges explode all around you shaking the boat like crazy.. But my point is, the most awesome thing about it is the hunt, you don't know what is out there and you have to use all sensors and means necessary to find out, some methods make yourself valunerable by for example, surfacing the boat to use the radar. I'd really love for the scanner to be more powerful and dynamic, and not favor either the hunter or the hunted. Like in reallife you could have passive and active modes, active could have longer range but those using passive would get a warning that someone is using it and thus they would be able to warp out. Also detecting someone warping would be awesome.. Request signatures at EVE-GFX

Straight Chillen Gallente Solar Wind Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2008.07.26 19:25:00 - [221] this could make the system scanner POS mod useful
Mister Xerox	Posted - 2008.07.26 20:21:00 - [222] Not supported. I'm no 0.0 plebe, to be sure. 0.0 Politics drive me utterly insane. But I don't believe ants like Jade should be able to run in and trash the hard work people have put into establishing a 0.0 presence as easily as they currently can. Speed changes won't change the raiders at all except make their nano gangs catchable (more or less). I say boost 0.0 presence; allow the anchoring of sentry guns at gates or other defense modules. After all, there's a whole fleet of covert ships that can bypass them. Blobs should find themselves under heavy fire when they jump into enemy space through gates.
J'Mkarr Soban Proxenetae Invicti	Posted - 2008.07.26 20:46:00 - [223] First for support! -- These are my personal views and in no way represent the views of Proxenetae Invicti, which maintains a neutral stance stemming from the strong ethics demanded of its work.
Neth'Rae Decorum Inc Tygris Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.27 08:55:00 - [224] Cool, now I can give it thumbs up aswell ^^ Request signatures at EVE-GFX
Tchu Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.07.27 09:51:00 - [225] I like it
McDonALTs	Posted - 2008.07.27 15:33:00 - [226] I want to kill some ratter. If local was removed, how will I find the ratter as quickly? I do not have 10 hours to check manually all over teh place.
MirrorGod Heretic Militia	Posted - 2008.07.27 15:53:00 - [227] You know, I never liked the idea until I had a look at what it might offer via Jade's poast. If implemented, I'm all for it, if nothing else, in 0.0. Supporting it. Save Small Gang Warfare
NanDe YaNen The Funkalistic	Posted - 2008.07.29 19:22:00 - [228] local = no suspense kill local, give us scanning tools. make flying around in space meaningful. let us use the entire system for combat instead of just gates/moons/stations.
Fluent Designs	Posted - 2008.08.03 22:19:00 - [229] killing local is a great idea, but the reason we fight over 00 if memory serves me right is for the industrial value that the moons and minerals bring us , it used to be hard enough making the trip from the belts to the stations everytime a unknown would arive in the system, this would only make that hard if not impossible for miners to stay safe. Unless ccp added some kind of long lasting scanners and a window , maby like a radar system for the miners to use, drop a probe at each gate, thatmay help keep them safe for a few hours, a system only launchable from a mining barge even would work and then the miners in 00 would become a part of the eyes and ears of keeping systems guarded, that information would not have to be of a tactical nature just a informative one ie friendly or unfriendly just arived time to run or stay and mine, that simple information could then be given to any local defence force
Marcus Gideon Gallente Excessive Force	Posted - 2008.08.03 23:26:00 - [230] Edited by: Marcus Gideon on 03/08/2008 23:26:22 Three things... 1) Make Local a "Recent Speakers" channel. Then you have no idea who is actually in your area unless they are chatty, which Spies shouldn't be. 2) Make Hunter modules for tracking down nearby Cloaks. 3) DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES allow Probes to find a Cloak. --- Don't take my ranting personally. I may just be arguing the topic, unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word. "Players don't want Variety. They want THE BEST"

Demus DaVet Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.04 09:41:00 - [231] I would like to see local go. It's gamey, it's out of character and it is generally abused in a way it was not designed for. However, you do understand that players are also humans. Real life humans. Most of the time one just wants to jump through 5 systems to go from station to station to pick something up, it doesn't necessarily mean he/she undocks in order to have the adventure of their lives, and generally, people most of the time don't have the time to have the time of their lives... Local should be replaced by something that is more in character and that gives certain concrete advantages when flying through your alliance's space. I do agree it can't be completely safe but owning space does lose some of it's meaning when there is no way of flying through it in relative safety. Maybe a POS module you can anchor with Sov 1 and provides a number (doesn't have to be names) of Friendlies, Hostiles and Neutrals in the system to your overview. It won't be out of character since the module supposedly could scan the system every 30 seconds to get ship signatures or something. If one is flying in uncontested space... well, that's always something of an adventure anyway. Local could be kept as a chat where only the name of someone talking shows, but there is no list with portraits on the right side of it. It also has to be an automatic warning system. It's no fun loosing a warp-in because you had to roll a cigarette ------------------------------------------------- Things are generally simple EVE PVP Gameplay: Reloaded
Cheap Dude	Posted - 2008.08.04 11:13:00 - [232] Well that would make mining a dead profession. Atleast ratters jump from belt to belt to kill new spawns.
NanDe YaNen The Funkalistic	Posted - 2008.08.04 15:11:00 - [233] You have to read the whole thing. Replacing current local, you would have an alarm functionality on scanner. Almost assured there will be specialized ships or modules for this when you really need it (sitting in one spot mining.) You can always put people on the gates. Always scan a system you enter to mine.
Fireball Jones	Posted - 2008.08.04 18:03:00 - [234] /support
Cyberus Caldari Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels	Posted - 2008.08.06 16:19:00 - [235] i like the idea in general.(nice fiction story btw) But i'm afraid at the long scale this will only involve more that some part of pilots who curently living in outlaw space will return to more save space and thats probebly the last thing what our developers want to happence in game. Atm they are still not managed get to the point where pilots out Empire switch to to 0.0 securety space life. and any posseble change what could bring whit in possebility that will result in discrasing population on the long run, will be probebly avoidet by CCP in any means. So long CCp will not find out or get any good idea from citizens of EVE what can replase LOCAl and still not do any impact on population in 0.0 space they will move that ideas in the corner and wait for better solution. Just my 2cents. regard Cyb [/url]
sexyminer	Posted - 2008.08.08 06:39:00 - [236] JADE could you say all that but in a shorter way plz i carnt read it all properly :(
Terra Mikael NightCrew	Posted - 2008.08.08 12:05:00 - [237] Edited by: Terra Mikael on 08/08/2008 12:15:09 You forgot to tell the story of how you were in an empty system and couldn't tell it was empty, so you wasted 20 minutes scanning and found nothing. Or the story of how a couple missioners in the same system wanted to fleet up with some one to speed things along, but can't. Or perhaps the story or of the miner who suddenly started to get his ass handed to him by a handful of rat frigates and couldn't even yell "help," (call it a "distress signal" if you want fancy storytelling) Or how about the time you find several people who you'd like to talk to at the same time, but you have to convo them all individually instead of saying "hey guys, let's [insert meaningless social activity that carbears do here]" Or how about just wanting to get on the damn radio and talk to anyone whose out there because you're **ing bored and you wanna see whose out there. You seem to forget that eve is a social game. Local will never go away because of this. Local could be changed to not display anyone in the local sidebar unless they decided to talk in local (somewhat the way other chat channels do only a lot faster), but to simply make such a powerful socializing tool just vanish is, excuse me, ing stupid. If giving away your presence is what you're worried about, perhaps a few line of codes can be added that remove you from local while your cloaked, but if surpises is what you want, then just go with the above idea. Edited: emphasizing the important parts Originally by:** VicturusTeSaluto All piracy is built upon honoring one's word.
Marcus Gideon Gallente Excessive Force	Posted - 2008.08.08 12:19:00 - [238] Originally by: Terra Mikael ...Local could be changed to not display anyone in the local sidebar unless they decided to talk in local (somewhat the way other chat channels do only a lot faster... These types of channels are called "Recent Speakers", and I'm going to promote that until something better comes along. But I agree completely, that just POOF removing Local wouldn't work. And voting for such a total removal will not prompt CCP to do it any faster than NEVER. BUT... removing the Intel gathering aspect (the names and faces) would alleviate the problem, while still leaving the chat function itself intact. --- Don't take my ranting personally. I may just be arguing the topic, unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word. "Players don't want Variety. They want THE BEST"
Cyberus Caldari Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels	Posted - 2008.08.08 12:50:00 - [239] Originally by: NanDe YaNen You can always put people on the gates. So what you saying if someone deside to go out mine alone in syetm with 5 gates he must to find 5 ppl to cover it those gates? Dont beleave they will do it for free and how much profit will ppl get after? I dont know. Like i said i like idea in general but it can bring lots of concequnces with it and have poseble huge impact on 0.0 population on the long run. Now we did read the story showed from one side (combat situation) and it is sound fun but what about if you travel from dest A to dest B ? We all do arent we? and we all have local open and trying to get fast to our destenation and dont run in the camp or atleast try to avoid. In this scenarion you will have 2 options: a) run like headless chiken and hope you dont get in any camp on your way b) you have to scan every system you enter and will cost you alot of time to finish your jurney. My 2 cents. Cyb [/url]
Akarr Creitos	Posted - 2008.08.12 16:05:00 - [240] I like it, you have my support.



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