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Ore Scanner	Posted - 2008.04.23 00:13:00 - [1] So I bought a character (off the official forums for 1.4bil isk) a few months ago and get the character transferred to me. I login today to see my wallet @ -549mil, the isk having been withdrawn by "GM Cash Transfer" with description "Player Donation Reversed By GM". So I wrote a rude and un-helpful stuck request (since I can't actually do anything while I have a -550mil balance), which I then updated with more info. Got the bog standard response from the GMs with no case specific information (I filed 2 petitions because a helpful ISD man told me I was in the wrong category, and got the exact same reply on both) which basically said I had bought isk. So I look back in player donations, oh wow, he did buy isk. 550mil of it.... which was immediately transferred to another player.... before I bought this character..... The reply from the GMs says something along the lines of "All reversals are investigated thoroughly"..... wtf. Yeah seems really thorough to me. Basically, if you buy a character you're holding a handgranade that may have a pin in it. Good luck with your eve experience.
Trathen	Posted - 2008.04.23 00:20:00 - [2] Full API Key or it didn't happen. First!
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2008.04.23 00:22:00 - [3] Escalate the petition. If you have not bought money on that character, then escalate the petition. Make sure its in the right place too
Zaiyo Modi	Posted - 2008.04.23 00:38:00 - [4] So what went wrong? Perhaps a 14 day quarantine would be in order, for characters put on sale so CCP can investigate their accounts first. Or else it is open for money laundering isn't it?
Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.04.23 00:41:00 - [5] 1.) Stop being an ass 2.) Escalate the petition. 3.) Explain the character transfer 4.) ???? 5.) PROFIT! -------- Ideas for: Mining Clouds
Vio Geraci Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.23 00:49:00 - [6] Did you actually transfer the character like you are supposed or did he just give you login information?
Divi	Posted - 2008.04.23 01:00:00 - [7] It maybe just me but since they stopped all the in game spam on these isk sellers there has been a bunch of these .... I got screwed by legitimately selling items, characters and Time Codes cards. I can not help to think it is a scam to start a conspiracy, on the boards. They all have certain things in common. Main characters are not posting. They all claim to have gone through proper channels and lost the isk after the fact. None of them seem to elevate the petition either. The time of the actual transaction and the lost isk is getting longer now. They all claim that Customer Service was no help. Two things are happening. 1. CCP is actually making a dent in the Isk Sellers profit lines (we could only hope that is true) 2. They are also going after Isk Launderers. Note: It you really got screwed elevate your petition. I really don't think it is true in this case. 2. I have never heard of a GM taking more than the amount of isk in question. 2. You only made 1 million isk in "a few months". 3. My dealings with customer service is they have given me a real answer when I questioned something (sometimes it takes a day or two). I'm currently running an experiment where I left myself 1 shuttle and seeing how many hours it takes to get to 100Mill before I restore all my stuff to my main. Starting with a shuttle that I blew up to get an ibis it took just over 2 hours to accumulate over 1 million isk (and I was taking my time), it took just an hour to get the next million.
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.04.23 01:02:00 - [8] Seems like these threads are appearing at an accelerated rate lately. Is this the new scam fad of the season: buying ISK and then selling the character, pocketing the legitimate ISK from the character purchaser in the process and leaving them with the negative wallet after CCP "investigates" matters fully? That's pretty cruel. Character buying is lame anyway.
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2008.04.23 01:05:00 - [9] how do you escalate the petition? ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Nora Roksi	Posted - 2008.04.23 01:10:00 - [10] Well I didn't want to sully my characters name but here you go since I guess I've done nothing wrong. You can see the character sale here: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=715496&page=1 I have no idea how to elevate the petition, its still on-going I hope (its not closed), but no reply in over 8 hours. I have 2 industrial alts, all payment for duties performed goes to my main one. The GM did not take more than the amount of isk bought. 1. Received 550mil in 50+100+200+200mil isk transfers. 2. Transferred that isk to another character within an hour. 3. Sold the character almost 2 weeks later. 4. New owner gets pinged. All this after a "thorough investigation". Its not like this is a new way of dodging the law judging from eve-search results.
Divi	Posted - 2008.04.23 01:12:00 - [11] Originally by: Erotic Irony how do you escalate the petition? Originally by: CCP Navigator Please be aware that the Forums are not the place to discuss petitions. When you have an active petition and are in dialogue with a GM you can ask to have the petition escalated to a Senior GM if you require further clarification or if you feel that the decision made was not correct. I found this in another tread sums up the process.
vx9vamp	Posted - 2008.05.03 02:17:00 - [12] Escalating will get you nowhere... The only thing it will do is keep you on a string until your bled dry with real money. Same thing happened to me, except I did not pay for the account, my friend gave it to me, so I guess I am ahead of you there. MY solution: Declare bankruptcy => CANCEL THE ACCOUNT. Funny thing is they don't make it easy for you to cancel. I thought I would find it under My Account. You have to file a petition to cancel. Hopefully they will answer it before the next billing cycle. Originally by: Divi Originally by: Erotic Irony how do you escalate the petition? Originally by: CCP Navigator Please be aware that the Forums are not the place to discuss petitions. When you have an active petition and are in dialogue with a GM you can ask to have the petition escalated to a Senior GM if you require further clarification or if you feel that the decision made was not correct. I found this in another tread sums up the process.
Messerschmitt facility Amarr Shinra Shinra Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.03 02:38:00 - [13] Originally by: vx9vamp Escalating will get you nowhere... The only thing it will do is keep you on a string until your bled dry with real money. Same thing happened to me, except I did not pay for the account, my friend gave it to me, so I guess I am ahead of you there. MY solution: Declare bankruptcy => CANCEL THE ACCOUNT. Funny thing is they don't make it easy for you to cancel. I thought I would find it under My Account. You have to file a petition to cancel. Hopefully they will answer it before the next billing cycle. Huh? I was aware that there is a button saying cancel subcription in my accounts. of course it will not be there if you are using ETC's Originally by: Divi Originally by: Erotic Irony how do you escalate the petition? Originally by: CCP Navigator Please be aware that the Forums are not the place to discuss petitions. When you have an active petition and are in dialogue with a GM you can ask to have the petition escalated to a Senior GM if you require further clarification or if you feel that the decision made was not correct. I found this in another tread sums up the process.
Aurix Lexico Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.05.03 03:20:00 - [14] http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=754835&page=2#32
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.05.03 03:25:00 - [15] Originally by: vx9vamp Escalating will get you nowhere... The only thing it will do is keep you on a string until your bled dry with real money. Same thing happened to me, except I did not pay for the account, my friend gave it to me, so I guess I am ahead of you there. That's your problem right there. If you didn't use the official character transfer option (pay 20$/euro) there's no proof you didn't buy the ISK (instead of the "previous owner"). Heck, CCP would have enough grounds to perma-ban you for that alone, not just the ISK buying the previous owner did. The one and only way to have such a negative balance reversed is if: a) you received the character via a valid character transfer (NOT somebody giving you account details) b) the PREVIOUS owner bought ISK, not you after the transfer
El'Niaga Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.05.03 04:54:00 - [16] Originally by: Nora Roksi Well I didn't want to sully my characters name but here you go since I guess I've done nothing wrong. You can see the character sale here: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=715496&page=1 I have no idea how to elevate the petition, its still on-going I hope (its not closed), but no reply in over 8 hours. I have 2 industrial alts, all payment for duties performed goes to my main one. The GM did not take more than the amount of isk bought. 1. Received 550mil in 50+100+200+200mil isk transfers. 2. Transferred that isk to another character within an hour. 3. Sold the character almost 2 weeks later. 4. New owner gets pinged. All this after a "thorough investigation". Its not like this is a new way of dodging the law judging from eve-search results. To escalate in the petition post another remark asking it be escalated. I'd also provide a link to the sale thread in the petition so that they can see that it wasn't you. At the very least they should undo the whole thing and give you the money back I'd think :).
MilowFV Echo Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.05.03 05:41:00 - [17] In one of the many GMs stole my ISK threads that came before this one someone had this happen. They petition and point out they purchase the character thru the secure method and got thier ISK returned once the GMs saw that he didnt buy the ISK. I agree that it seem we have 1 or 2 person / day hitting the help channel to whine and a couple of post a week here now. The best one from the help channel was the guy crying that he lost 1 trillion ISK that he earned thru running missions. His char was less then a year old so that must have been alot of missioning farming.
Freya Runestone Minmatar	Posted - 2008.05.03 07:31:00 - [18] Originally by: vx9vamp Escalating will get you nowhere... The only thing it will do is keep you on a string until your bled dry with real money. Same thing happened to me, except I did not pay for the account, my friend gave it to me, so I guess I am ahead of you there. MY solution: Declare bankruptcy => CANCEL THE ACCOUNT. Funny thing is they don't make it easy for you to cancel. I thought I would find it under My Account. You have to file a petition to cancel. Hopefully they will answer it before the next billing cycle. you find canceling an account difficult? "My account" in the menu on the left side. log in. it's right there "cancel subscription" I canceled my account and reactivated multiple times, it's not hard. it's not hidden, its right there where you would expect it to be. being stupid is not an excuse.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.05.03 08:02:00 - [19] Originally by: MilowFV the guy crying that he lost 1 trillion ISK that he earned thru running missions. His char was less then a year old so that must have been alot of missioning farming. 120 mil ISK/hour in one year of non-stop 23/7 activity would be needed to get 1 trillion ISK...
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.03 08:23:00 - [20] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: MilowFV the guy crying that he lost 1 trillion ISK that he earned thru running missions. His char was less then a year old so that must have been alot of missioning farming. 120 mil ISK/hour in one year of non-stop 23/7 activity would be needed to get 1 trillion ISK... Dr Evil is [DISAPPOINTED]
RagnarH Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.03 08:54:00 - [21] well, u bought a char from someone who dont know the diffrence in Timecode bazaar and char sale bazaar
RSBHWARLORD Amarr Black Podding	Posted - 2008.05.03 11:21:00 - [22] Originally by: Ore Scanner I login today to see my wallet @ -549mil, oh wow, he did buy isk. 550mil of it the only thing odd about this post, is that you only had 1m in your wallet :(
Kvirie Caldari Children of the Wind	Posted - 2008.05.03 19:16:00 - [23] Originally by: vx9vamp Escalating will get you nowhere... The only thing it will do is keep you on a string until your bled dry with real money. Same thing happened to me, except I did not pay for the account, my friend gave it to me, so I guess I am ahead of you there. If someone gave you an account you should be glad you got to keep it, since that's against the EULA I think. If you were 'given' the account they can't verify you didn't buy the ISK probably, whereas if there's a character sale thread, or transfer record, it probably shows up and they can see "oh he got the char in december and the char's bought isk was october", and the guy who sold you the char will probably login ti find their isk missing once yours is fixed. Also, you can login to your account on this website and edit subscription details and cancel your account there can't you?
Haraldhardrade Amarr Pax Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.03 19:21:00 - [24] The amount of ISK selling spam in the rookie channel is very disturbing. I'm talking about MASSIVE spammage wreacking for utter annoyance
Maj Woodcock Minmatar United Space Aillance USA	Posted - 2008.05.04 19:27:00 - [25] 1.4 Billion for a 6 million SP toon!!! Time to clean houser and sell some of my alts.
Spitfire451	Posted - 2008.05.04 19:58:00 - [26] Edited by: Spitfire451 on 04/05/2008 20:04:07 I had the same thing happen to me. Only I checked the character's wallet after I bought it and didn't see any suspicious transactions. But it only shows transfers that go back 2 months ... Anyhow so i train the char for about a month, don't really play with it, just train long skills. Then one day a long skill is finishing up I log it and voila! the char is in negative balance. Its previous owner apparently bought ISK more than 3 months ago. So I filed a very friendly and detailed petition under Rules and Policies -> GMs explaining that I bought this character for so-and-so much ISK from so-and-so char. I linked the sale thread in the petition of course. I then stated that I never bought ISK and that they should go after the previous owner. Within 24 hours I got an apology and my ISK back. And i was very happy with such quick customer service. So if you have proof that you bought the character for ISK with a forum sale thread and everything according to the rules, there's nothing to worry about as GMs will go after original owner in this case.
Mr Cleann	Posted - 2008.05.05 21:39:00 - [27] I would escalate the petition have CCP see the billing history for that account to verify that the account was indeed transfered to a different player. and to match that information aginst the timeframe in which the crime took place. This should hopfully resolve your situation, refund your isk back to that toon and point CCP's daggers in the right direction and take the isk out of that players account.
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2008.05.05 21:49:00 - [28] Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 05/05/2008 21:50:05 Originally by: Ore Scanner So I bought a character (off the official forums for 1.4bil isk) a few months ago and get the character transferred to me. I login today to see my wallet @ -549mil, the isk having been withdrawn by "GM Cash Transfer" with description "Player Donation Reversed By GM". So I wrote a rude and un-helpful stuck request (since I can't actually do anything while I have a -550mil balance), which I then updated with more info. Got the bog standard response from the GMs with no case specific information (I filed 2 petitions because a helpful ISD man told me I was in the wrong category, and got the exact same reply on both) which basically said I had bought isk. So I look back in player donations, oh wow, he did buy isk. 550mil of it.... which was immediately transferred to another player.... before I bought this character..... The reply from the GMs says something along the lines of "All reversals are investigated thoroughly"..... wtf. Yeah seems really thorough to me. Basically, if you buy a character you're holding a handgranade that may have a pin in it. Good luck with your eve experience. There is only one thing you can do: Petition. and ask for escalation! Tell the GMS - NICELY - and - CONSTRUCTIVELY - by giving a - DETAILED - report on your full situation. Sorry. But I cant help you. Although for a start, you could start with posting your FULL API key for at least SOME support - until the GMs tell you its your fault ofcource. We the forumcrawlers dont give GM support. Again, I dont know about your truthfullness in your post. But for the last 2-3 players running to the forums CCP have been correct. When it comes to character transfer though I dont know if CCP reverse former deals. Maybe they do. If so this will be fixed by asking NICELY and CONSTRUCTIVELY for your case to be escalated and having your character fully analyzed. Thats all I can help you with. Be nice and things will go you well. As long your path is clean and white. Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL
DubanFP Caldari Four Rings Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.05 23:23:00 - [29] Edited by: DubanFP on 05/05/2008 23:24:56 Originally by: Ore Scanner So I wrote a rude and un-helpful stuck request Well there's your problem. Go up to a police officer and start insulting him on something he's just here to enforce. See where it lands you. Considering the fact GMs only enforce the rules rather then making them I can honestly say you'll recieve no pity from me. Day in day out recieving complaint after complaint, having to deal with ****heads like yourself. You sir are an asswhole and the game will be better off without you. P.S. Every time i've had to deal with a GM they did a polite & good job. Thank you GMs, keep up the good work and ignore the asswholes. _______________ ReiAyanami> We bring you tidings of AARRRRRRRRR
Wolf Spyder	Posted - 2008.05.05 23:43:00 - [30] "So I wrote a rude and un-helpful stuck request".-----I wouldn't help you either under that situation. If you feel you been wronged. Don't go off half***ed (an old term used in the shooting sports). For one thing the GM's are not the cause of your problem, but could be the answer to it. It wasn't their fault you got screwed over in a bum deal. You bought a character thyat someone more than likely had some idea that it was going to be hammered soon or just got lucky with the deal. When you run in to a SNAFU and need their help. no matter how mad you are at the time. ALWAYS be polite to them. If you need to cool down. Then wait a day or two. The people that handel petition will usually give a player about a week to file a petition for their problem. When you do, Give as much detail as you can. For example, for reimburstments, give the system name, mission agent name, name of mission and the details that led to the loss. If you want a reimburstment always use the "Respectfully request that my ship be reimburst" or something simular. Also look for the closest category that your problem best fits. If you choose to send in a petion while you are emotional and **ed then you reap what you soe. Good luck with getting your situation resolved. I hope they go after the person that illegally bought the isk and hammer their butt out of the game. Permantly.

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