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Somebody come up with a KB mode that divides Kills by Number of People in Fleet

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Darthewok Perkone Caldari State 15	Posted - 2012.02.29 18:57:00 - [1] - Quote At this time, when 100 people kill 1 ship, all 100 get +1 kill to their killboard score on most killboards. This highly inflates the scores of those who blob and highly penalizes those in smaller gangs/solo PVPers in terms of scoring. How about adding a "Fleet Size Adjusted" mode to killboards that divides kills by number of people in the fleet. A view mode where 100 abaddons killing 1 ibis don't get 100 kills (1 per person). Instead this view mode would only add 0.01 kill to each person. Before you say you like the current way KBs work, I am not asking KBs to change, only to add a new viewing mode. I am sure killboard programmers out there eg. Battleclinic/EVE-kills etc. are more than able to add such a new mode. Eve has been around 8-9 years, time for killboards to start adding alternative scoring modes too! Please add likes if you support this so killboard makers will know if you want this. Or write requests to your favorite KBs showing your appreciation if they would add such a mode. CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux 892	Posted - 2012.02.29 19:14:00 - [2] - Quote I'm not sure that Ships & Modules is the appropriate place for this. I think this is the goal behind the "points" systems that various KBs have implemented. -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127 Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Darthewok Perkone Caldari State 15	Posted - 2012.02.29 19:23:00 - [3] - Quote Yeah, I get you about the point system. Only problem is it is not particularly intuitive. I highly doubt people look at points that much, more the number of kills and K/D ratio. There are MANY corps that live and breathe by the K/D ratio and number of kills as currently calculated. "Oh I just got 10 kills" sounds impressive. "Hurray I got 10000 points" nobody knows what that means. Tell me there isn't anyone out there who would like more choices in ways metrics are calculated on killboards. Note, I am talking about addition of new metrics and view modes, not replacement of current modes. Please give different types of corps and PVPers the option to calculate K/D ratios according to their style of PVP. The current mode can be called "Classic Mode", the new mode "Fleet Size Adjusted Mode". Then corps focusing on giant fleets can look at Classic Mode and corps specializing in smaller gangs can look at Fleet Size Adjusted Mode for a clearer idea of how they are doing at their respective niches of PVP. CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
mxzf Shovel Bros 817	Posted - 2012.02.29 19:27:00 - [4] - Quote It boils down to "Either do it yourself, talk to the people who actually run the KBs, or shut up". Whining about it not calculating kills the way you feel it should on here does no good at all.
Darthewok Perkone Caldari State 15	Posted - 2012.02.29 19:32:00 - [5] - Quote Talking about it here may reach the people who actually runs the KBs because they probably play the game too. Add a mode, not change the current mode. Showing interest in a new feature is not whining. CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux 893	Posted - 2012.02.29 19:35:00 - [6] - Quote Just to be fair, he is talking to someone who can do it themselves. I'm not sold on its need, but I agree with the general concept. -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127 Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Nalha Saldana Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 140	Posted - 2012.02.29 20:52:00 - [7] - Quote Don't nerf my 10:1 kd ratio :(
Jerick Ludhowe 2 PIRATES 1 CUP 50	Posted - 2012.02.29 21:19:00 - [8] - Quote Can't agree more. The way KBs currently calculate kills is the main contributor to the blob warfare so many of us detest... I'd say build it into the game and make points the primary focus rather than number of kills.
Izziee University of Izziee 49	Posted - 2012.02.29 22:04:00 - [9] - Quote Darthewok wrote: At this time, when 100 people kill 1 ship, all 100 get +1 kill to their killboard score on most killboards. This highly inflates the scores of those who blob and highly penalizes those in smaller gangs/solo PVPers in terms of scoring. How about adding a "Fleet Size Adjusted" mode to killboards that divides kills by number of people in the fleet. A view mode where 100 abaddons killing 1 ibis don't get 100 kills (1 per person). Instead this view mode would only add 0.01 kill to each person. Before you say you like the current way KBs work, I am not asking KBs to change, only to add a new viewing mode. I am sure killboard programmers out there eg. Battleclinic/EVE-kills etc. are more than able to add such a new mode. Eve has been around 8-9 years, time for killboards to start adding alternative scoring modes too! Please add likes if you support this so killboard makers will know if you want this. Or write requests to your favorite KBs showing your appreciation if they would add such a mode. Well sure, but would it mean much to the person actually looking through the details for whatever reason? is it to show how worthy they are for 1v1, and that by this, it means the pilot didn't need aid of a fleet? So what about the suicide gankers, or the hulk killers, should there be a tally for those also? Or is that put under "skill" because it was a 1v1 that wasn't "aided" by a fleet? - Now don't get me wrong, nothing against anyone who plays their game how they wish, if they want to gank, cool, if they don't, cool...couldn't care less either way, but I am curious about your scoring system, since I don't really see how someone attacking a helpless ship is any more of a victory than someone in a blob of 100 strong.
Lyron-Baktos Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle 54	Posted - 2012.02.29 22:05:00 - [10] - Quote I would even go so far to do it based on a % system. if someone does 75% damage, give them 75% of the points On holiday. -áIn some other world. Where the music of the radio was a labyrinth of sonorous colours. To a bright centre of absolute convicton. -áWhere the dripping patchouli was more than scent. -á It was a sun
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux 893	Posted - 2012.02.29 22:11:00 - [11] - Quote Jerick Ludhowe wrote: Can't agree more. The way KBs currently calculate kills is the main contributor to the blob warfare so many of us detest... I'd say build it into the game and make points the primary focus rather than number of kills. If you include ship class into it, I would propose something like: min(adjusted_target_ship_class / sum(adjusted_atacker_ship_classes), 1) -Liang Ed: This takes care of the hulk gank case above BTW. Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127 Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux 893	Posted - 2012.02.29 22:13:00 - [12] - Quote Lyron-Baktos wrote: I would even go so far to do it based on a % system. if someone does 75% damage, give them 75% of the points This discounts the key contribution of support roles like tackler, logi, ECM, etc. I wouldn't be in favor of that. -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127 Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Trinkets friend Obstergo NEM3SIS. 167	Posted - 2012.02.29 23:12:00 - [13] - Quote Jerick Ludhowe wrote: Can't agree more. The way KBs currently calculate kills is the main contributor to the blob warfare so many of us detest... I'd say build it into the game and make points the primary focus rather than number of kills. Yeah, I am sure that people won't bring more to a fight than they need, chasing KB points, when they have a POS siege. Why, it will be almost a Zen experience, like the teachings of far-eastern martial arts experts, where people bring the bare minimum to the fight to win the fight. Wax on. Wax off. The skilful employer of men will employ the wise man, the brave man, the covetous man, and the stupid man. Sun Tzu @trinketsfriend on twatter
Kid Chaos Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 16	Posted - 2012.02.29 23:19:00 - [14] - Quote Lyron-Baktos wrote: I would even go so far to do it based on a % system. if someone does 75% damage, give them 75% of the points There are too many ways to contribute that aren't damage. If I'm in a super slow, super high DPS ship that could never catch anything, and my friend is a good enough team player to build a fast and sturdy tackler so that we can get kills, do I deserve 99% of the credit even though he was 50% of the team? Everyone in the fleet should be credited in the participation when the points/score are whacked up. If you have people in your fleet who are doing very little and you don't want them leeching, cut the fat or except that the increased chance of success that you get by having them there comes with a cost.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux 893	Posted - 2012.02.29 23:24:00 - [15] - Quote Trinkets friend wrote: Jerick Ludhowe wrote: Can't agree more. The way KBs currently calculate kills is the main contributor to the blob warfare so many of us detest... I'd say build it into the game and make points the primary focus rather than number of kills. Yeah, I am sure that people won't bring more to a fight than they need, chasing KB points, when they have a POS siege. Why, it will be almost a Zen experience, like the teachings of far-eastern martial arts experts, where people bring the bare minimum to the fight to win the fight. Wax on. Wax off. Hmmmm, it almost certainly wouldn't affect things like POS bashes. Another interesting effect is that your biggest "dig" comes in the jump from solo to small gang, not in the jump from small gang to big gang. The difference from 1 to 1/3 is pretty big, while the difference from 1/10 to 1/20 is pretty small in absolute terms. Maybe a different function would work better for encouraging small gang play without blobs? Maybe just let the chips fall where they may? If they fall where they may, whats the difference from now? -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127 Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Darthewok Perkone Caldari State 18	Posted - 2012.02.29 23:45:00 - [16] - Quote My request is that there are additional statistics, not change in the current statistics. New stats in bold For example: Character X Kills: Adjusted Kills: Losses: Adjusted Losses: K/D ratio: Adjusted K/D ratio: The players/corps in blob warfare can still look at and pay attention to the left column stats. While the players/corps focusing more on small gang can look at the right column stats. It does not have to be either/or system. Just give alternative stats that small gang players can look at as well. TL;DR give more stats people can look at so they can have their own benchmarks for whatever playstyle they want. CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
Mfume Apocal Origin. Nulli Secunda 332	Posted - 2012.03.01 00:56:00 - [17] - Quote This would do nothing to prevent the Sabre+Falcon or ship storage dudes from rising to the top of the rankings.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux 893	Posted - 2012.03.01 01:00:00 - [18] - Quote Mfume Apocal wrote: This would do nothing to prevent the Sabre+Falcon or ship storage dudes from rising to the top of the rankings. I'm not sure why you feel that Sabre + Falcon should somehow be dealt with differently than 2x Hurricane? What am I missing besides the lame factor of ECM? Ship storage guys are something that's just going to have to be addressed in another way - I don't think any KB scheme could work around that. -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127 Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Mfume Apocal Origin. Nulli Secunda 332	Posted - 2012.03.01 05:33:00 - [19] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: I'm not sure why you feel that Sabre + Falcon should somehow be dealt with differently than 2x Hurricane? What am I missing besides the lame factor of ECM? I never contrasted it to 2x Hurricanes, but rather a 5 on 5 small gang fight in which you kill 2 getting you less points than killing a Rifter with your Sabre and Falcon. I'm not particularly against ECM as a mechanic or ganking as a lifestyle, but surely if people are complaining about "blobbing" requiring no skill and being awarded no points, then they need to take the same stance on some of the PvP done with fewer numbers, but even less risk or skill involved.
Patient 2428190 DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School 87	Posted - 2012.03.01 06:02:00 - [20] - Quote I guess extra KB tools would be nice and give people more reasons to wave their e-pickles at each other, but realistically, won't change how people play the game. You'll get the same amount of Sabre/Falcon guys, same amount of nanoship/Ganglink Loki guys, same amount of neutral logistics guys. Nothing beats either winning or avoiding losing.
Fon Revedhort Monks of War DarkSide. 589	Posted - 2012.03.01 06:40:00 - [21] - Quote That's actually the only way to calculate kills. I use this principle all the time when evaluating someone's experience. Say. a guy with 1k kills with 50 people in killmails on average is more or less of the same experience as a dude with merely 40 kills done by 2 participants on average. "I killed an archon!" or "I've got a titan kill". Dude, your contribution was almost non-significant! Fon Revedhort for CSM 7
Kitt JT Crimson Empire. Nulli Secunda 18	Posted - 2012.03.01 07:05:00 - [22] - Quote Jerick Ludhowe wrote: Can't agree more. The way KBs currently calculate kills is the main contributor to the blob warfare so many of us detest... I'd say build it into the game and make points the primary focus rather than number of kills. Really. You think that individual pilot kb efficiency drives fleet tactics?
Darthewok Perkone Caldari State 19	Posted - 2012.03.01 08:47:00 - [23] - Quote Kitt JT wrote: Jerick Ludhowe wrote: Can't agree more. The way KBs currently calculate kills is the main contributor to the blob warfare so many of us detest... I'd say build it into the game and make points the primary focus rather than number of kills. Really. You think that individual pilot kb efficiency drives fleet tactics? Sometimes yes and sometimes no. Depends on the type of corp, location of corp (low-sec, high-sec, nullsec, WH), average gang size (small gang, solo, blob) and direction/goal of the corp/player (holding sov, just having fun, like engaging outnumbered as a challenge etc.) I am sure though that concern about KB stats does cause corps trying to gain a track record with an alliance to force their members to be very risk-adverse. You can look at many corp recruitment threads and corp policies and you will find the statement, our goal is to maintain X K/D ratio. In other words, blobbing is an enforced policy in many many corps because of how the KB stats look. CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
Cartheron Crust Matari Exodus 17	Posted - 2012.03.01 09:55:00 - [24] - Quote So what you are saying is killmails should be removed from the game. I approve of this message and/or service.
Wacktopia Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group 199	Posted - 2012.03.01 10:05:00 - [25] - Quote It's a good idea but people will not want this in general because players probably like the idea of turning up in fleet, blobbing some doodz and then +10'ing their kill count and feeling all happy about their KB. Also, if I solo-gank a ratting ship 1v1 is that somehow better than a gang of 20 killing a gang of 10 pvp ships? There are more metrics than you have mentioned I think. Vote Alekseyev Karrde for CSM7. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=67574 Get War Decs, Sov, Low Sec that works.-á
Jerick Ludhowe 2 PIRATES 1 CUP 51	Posted - 2012.03.01 12:37:00 - [26] - Quote Wacktopia wrote: It's a good idea but people will not want this in general because players probably like the idea of turning up in fleet, blobbing some doodz and then +10'ing their kill count and feeling all happy about their KB. Also, if I solo-gank a ratting ship 1v1 is that somehow better than a gang of 20 killing a gang of 10 pvp ships? There are more metrics than you have mentioned I think. This attitude is what is wrong with eve these days....
FT Diomedes Factio Paucorum 3	Posted - 2012.03.01 14:49:00 - [27] - Quote I thought the whole point of Eve was that it was fun just to blow **** up. Am I missing the point here? Should I instead be worried about some stupid set of metrics that can make my e-peen look just a little bit longer?
Jerick Ludhowe 2 PIRATES 1 CUP 51	Posted - 2012.03.01 15:03:00 - [28] - Quote Cartheron Crust wrote: So what you are saying is killmails should be removed from the game. I approve of this message and/or service. Yep, remove kms and integrate the statistics of a fight directly into a built in eve wide service that has a far less biased approach to displaying this information. Furthermore, being able to copy paste someones name into BC to gain access to their fits is also broken. Removing this information from the meta gaming that now is mandatory in eve would be a huge step forward in overall game balance and progression. Essentially if you want to know what someone was using when they died, being present on the kill or word of mouth are going to be your options.
Fon Revedhort Monks of War DarkSide. 594	Posted - 2012.03.01 18:17:00 - [29] - Quote Jerick Ludhowe wrote: Cartheron Crust wrote: So what you are saying is killmails should be removed from the game. I approve of this message and/or service. Yep, remove kms and integrate the statistics of a fight directly into a built in eve wide service that has a far less biased approach to displaying this information. Furthermore, being able to copy paste someones name into BC to gain access to their fits is also broken. Removing this information from the meta gaming that now is mandatory in eve would be a huge step forward in overall game balance and progression. Essentially if you want to know what someone was using when they died, being present on the kill or word of mouth are going to be your options. Agreed. Also, ship scanners are there for a reason. It's utterly stupid that people are allowed to gather that precious intel with no effort by simply visiting external killboards and checking out latest lost ships of that particular type. Fon Revedhort for CSM 7

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