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Hannobaal
Gallente
Shadow Forces Inc.
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Posted - 2008.04.24 10:28:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Hannobaal on 24/04/2008 10:33:26
 Originally by: Zhecao Vai
Edited by: Zhecao Vai on 24/04/2008 05:01:44
Well, web vs. TP is a big point, since you're choosing what to put in your midslots, right? When one is six times as effective as the other, that is a pretty big selling point.
Yes, but that is assuming one of 2 things. Either that you have a webbing range bonus that makes webs compete with target painter range wise (the target painting bonus on Minmatar Recons is only really useful if they're supporting torpedo battleships or missile dreadnoughts), or that you will be able to get in regular web range on your target.
Sometimes neither of those things are true. On an anti-drone/anti-interceptor artillery Thrasher I do use a web, just in case the target comes close to try and speed tank my turrets that way or drones get put on me, but I figure a warp disruptor is pretty useless because unless webbed the targets are fast enough to be able to run away anyway even if I have them scrambled. Therefore, it's mwd, web, and target painter.
I would also use them on any cruiser sized or battle cruiser sized ship (tech 1 or tech 2) trying to use long range turrets against fast cruiser size ships, for the same reasons.
Edit: There is also another situation where a target painter would be useful, and that is if you are in fast ship orbiting a slow one out of web range. Obviously a web is useless to you in that situation, but a target painter is not. |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.04.24 10:42:00 -
[32]
Give me a high-slot TP and I would use it every day.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Lord WarATron
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.04.24 10:52:00 -
[33]
Originally by: RuleoftheBone
Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 24/04/2008 07:28:12
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 24/04/2008 07:17:31
Typical Fleet/0.0 pvp
.........
Fixed for you.
Think outside the Blob BoB 
**EDIT**Poor jokes aside TP's are useful with a bit of thought and the right ship mix.
All modules are useful in this game. Seige torp raven vs hacs and I am sure someone can pull stats to say TP's are useful, that is of no doubt. What is being argued is that only a few trick situations are TP's useful and that TP's could use a bit of looking at.
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Billion Isk Mission |
Gartel Reiman
Civis Romanus Sum
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Posted - 2008.04.24 11:27:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Kyra Felann
I think most of the people in this thread don't understand tracking, sig resolution, etc.
Target painter increase signature radius, which has absolutely nothing to do with tracking.
This is why they're unpopular. Most people seem to hold the same opinion as Kyra, and think that target painting is only useful for missiles that are shooting at undersized targets. Some people go a bit further and make the link with turret tracking, but again think that it only applies to turrets shooting targets smaller than their sig resolution.
If people realised that a 50% increase in sig radius is a 50% increase in tracking for everyone (as well as the missile and lock time bonuses) then they would undoubtedly be more popular. There is definitely mileage in the fact that a web will do the job many times better if it can be applied, and I agree they're not a panacea, but I'm sure they do get overlooked in situations where they would be pretty useful. For example, they'd be great when you have medium pulse lasers shooting at nano-HACs, as that's a typical situation where 1) webs don't apply, and 2) raw tracking is in the band where it will benefit from an increase (i.e. not hitting all the time, but high enough to actually make a difference).
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kyrv
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Posted - 2008.04.24 11:47:00 -
[35]
For the exacting pew pew pilot just add two target painters and 4 tp-300's to a bellicose for Laser effects, pew pew noise and less gang screw-ups :p
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Diomidis
Amarr
Mythos Corp
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.24 11:56:00 -
[36]
Target Painters provide a global bonus that boosts:
* Locking time > more ewar, and dps reaching the target - webs > TP, if you lock and apply them that is.
* Tracking speed > for turrets - your turrets need to track to cause some dmg...
* Sig radius > for all weapons - your dmg is spread by default, TPs help you concentrate it
So by default TPs ought to be "weaker" than more specialized, scripted modules like TCs on most setups...when gang sizes goes up, the ships that benefit out of a single TP increase proportionally.
Having 10 or 11 webbers make a little difference, even none. Surely Minmatar recons are 95% better of with a second webber instead of a TP , still a meh Vigil with a TP is way more efficient than with an xtra webber. Even total noob gang members could do more in a Vigil with 1-2 TPs instead of mediocre flying in web range (heated or not)...
The rule of thumb webber >> TP is surely true up to a certain gang size.
Join the Biggest Greek Corp!
www.Mythos-eve.com - Join Mythos Channel in game!
Introduce HEAT EMMITERÖ for the Pilgrim |
Bronson Hughes
Knights of the Wild
Visions of Warfare
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Posted - 2008.04.24 12:21:00 -
[37]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Lots of people don't understand signature radius, and why it's important.
...
So it's mid range that it's good at.
And ... not much combat happens at mid range.
/thread.
Webs are better close up, tracking computers are better for sniping. Since not much tends to happen in the middle, where Target Painters work their best, they aren't overly popular. The fact that a lot of people don't understand how they relate to tracking doesn't help either. |
RuleoftheBone
Minmatar
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.04.24 13:10:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Originally by: RuleoftheBone
Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 24/04/2008 07:28:12
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 24/04/2008 07:17:31
Typical Fleet/0.0 pvp
.........
Fixed for you.
Think outside the Blob BoB
**EDIT**Poor jokes aside TP's are useful with a bit of thought and the right ship mix.
All modules are useful in this game. Seige torp raven vs hacs and I am sure someone can pull stats to say TP's are useful, that is of no doubt. What is being argued is that only a few trick situations are TP's useful and that TP's could use a bit of looking at.
*Sigh*
0.0 blob mentality again.
It works...it's just a more subtle effect (although not subtle to the target).
Combine with well-skilled TP-bonus ships (Rapier/Huginn/Hyena/whatever) and it works very well.
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way"
General George Patton USA
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Jones Maloy
Minmatar
Unified Naval Command
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Posted - 2008.04.25 10:46:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel
Umm. I don't think web vs TD is the point here?
Target Dainter?
Unofficial Official Jita Fubar Thread |
Faroe
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Posted - 2008.04.25 11:37:00 -
[40]
TP are better than Webs on ceptors cos you dont want your ceptor to get into web range
Say you fit your 4 Med slots
MWD
Point
Targeting computer ( with speed script cos you dont need to lock targets far away )
and your last slot ?
TP or another Targeting Comp? Damps are a bit **** now
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