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Quad Core Support for Eve Online?

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Lin Haraka Legio Conquistus Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.24 10:55:00 - [31] Originally by: Shintai 100% on each core? or 25% on each? If so, your OS/Game is simply jumping the thread around. In short..performance loss. I get a nice even-ish spread on my phenom and trust you me i have none of them performance losses that intels are so fond off
Bimjo Caldari SKULLDOGS	Posted - 2008.04.24 10:55:00 - [32] Originally by: Shintai Originally by: Bimjo have to disagree whatever the limits of python and the trickery CCP uses, my 4 cores all fire up and work,pretty much evenly, when I run EVE. but knowing you guys normally know your stuff,can someone explain what is happening on my quad core? thanks 100% on each core? or 25% on each? If so, your OS/Game is simply jumping the thread around. In short..performance loss. it runs at around 25 to 30% per core. so is it a "fake" quad core support ? OS Vista
Lin Haraka Legio Conquistus Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.24 11:04:00 - [33] @Bimjo what processor you got?
Bimjo Caldari SKULLDOGS	Posted - 2008.04.24 11:07:00 - [34] Originally by: Lin Haraka @Bimjo what processor you got? Visa home premium,pre-SP1 Q6600 , not over clocked 8800 Ultra SLI , not over clocked I doubt the rest of my spec would matter?
Lin Haraka Legio Conquistus Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.24 11:11:00 - [35] Originally by: Bimjo Originally by: Lin Haraka @Bimjo what processor you got? Visa home premium,pre-SP1 Q6600 , not over clocked 8800 Ultra SLI , not over clocked I doubt the rest of my spec would matter? No i think not. Well you are getting the same thing as me. The cores divide the task among them and really thats all it matters. I bet you dont have any "performance sinks" seeing as how you got a stronger graphics card than me so its all good I wouldnt worry about any fake quad support lol
Shintai Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards	Posted - 2008.04.24 11:12:00 - [36] Originally by: Lin Haraka Originally by: Shintai 100% on each core? or 25% on each? If so, your OS/Game is simply jumping the thread around. In short..performance loss. I get a nice even-ish spread on my phenom and trust you me i have none of them performance losses that intels are so fond off Ye im sorry. We with Core 2s just enjoy some 20% faster speed at the same clock, less heat and higher frequencies. So yes, you do have a performance loss when EvE jumps around and the core that takes ownership of the thread have to load its L2 and L1 with the new data. Plus wait ofcourse. Either you OS is bugged or your CPU is. Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Shintai Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards	Posted - 2008.04.24 11:13:00 - [37] Originally by: Bimjo Originally by: Shintai Originally by: Bimjo have to disagree whatever the limits of python and the trickery CCP uses, my 4 cores all fire up and work,pretty much evenly, when I run EVE. but knowing you guys normally know your stuff,can someone explain what is happening on my quad core? thanks 100% on each core? or 25% on each? If so, your OS/Game is simply jumping the thread around. In short..performance loss. it runs at around 25 to 30% per core. so is it a "fake" quad core support ? OS Vista Yes, EVE will use 50-100% on 1 Core at a time approx. SO if you are playing EvE with 1 Client, you will have 1 core loaded and 3 cores idle. Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Lin Haraka Legio Conquistus Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.24 11:17:00 - [38] About the speed its kind of relative like time you know the question is comparing to what but ok regarding the higher freqs meh its just epeen stroking if you ask meh My phenom is working quite nicely @ 45 Celsius thank you very much.
Anubis Xian Vertigo One	Posted - 2008.04.24 11:17:00 - [39] For multiple Eve clients, the graphics card and memory seem to be the only bottleneck if you have at least 1 core for each running client. The CPU isn't really the issue. Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal. I'm the Juggernaut, *****!
Bimjo Caldari SKULLDOGS	Posted - 2008.04.24 11:22:00 - [40] Originally by: Shintai Originally by: Bimjo Originally by: Shintai Originally by: Bimjo have to disagree whatever the limits of python and the trickery CCP uses, my 4 cores all fire up and work,pretty much evenly, when I run EVE. but knowing you guys normally know your stuff,can someone explain what is happening on my quad core? thanks 100% on each core? or 25% on each? If so, your OS/Game is simply jumping the thread around. In short..performance loss. it runs at around 25 to 30% per core. so is it a "fake" quad core support ? OS Vista Yes, EVE will use 50-100% on 1 Core at a time approx. SO if you are playing EvE with 1 Client, you will have 1 core loaded and 3 cores idle. sorry shintai, I don't understand none of my cores are idle in EVE,and they all run at similar percentages
Luh Windan Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2008.04.24 11:22:00 - [41] Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Originally by: Sazumaan Johnza Originally by: LaVista Vista It all comes down to the stackless python, it just doesn't support concurrency across more than 1 core. Is that really true..? While snippits like this do little justice to all the philosophies of scaling processes - you are correct in that one single python process is not able to use more than one core. However the way you scale python is multiple processes - and in fact this way of scaling is becoming increasingly prevalent. Threading - which became popular via Java is increasingly seen as a bad way to scale. For what it is worth - my company builds large scale python based systems scaled in just this way. Our software is built from many processes that communicate via messages and share as little as possible ("shared nothing" is a current buzz phrase in scaling terminology). Multi-core means you can throw more processes at a box.
Shintai Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards	Posted - 2008.04.24 11:28:00 - [42] Originally by: Bimjo Originally by: Shintai Originally by: Bimjo Originally by: Shintai Originally by: Bimjo have to disagree whatever the limits of python and the trickery CCP uses, my 4 cores all fire up and work,pretty much evenly, when I run EVE. but knowing you guys normally know your stuff,can someone explain what is happening on my quad core? thanks 100% on each core? or 25% on each? If so, your OS/Game is simply jumping the thread around. In short..performance loss. it runs at around 25 to 30% per core. so is it a "fake" quad core support ? OS Vista Yes, EVE will use 50-100% on 1 Core at a time approx. SO if you are playing EvE with 1 Client, you will have 1 core loaded and 3 cores idle. sorry shintai, I don't understand none of my cores are idle in EVE,and they all run at similar percentages OS? CPU? Most likely just a visual bug. Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
ls pos The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.04.24 11:41:00 - [43] Originally by: Shintai OS? CPU? Most likely just a visual bug. Probably not.. Its more often then not, that 1 game/program gets evenly distributed among the cores. Hence they all hover around the same percentage. If u want it to use only 1 core, u have to set the affinity to 1 core. with the ctrl-alt-del yadda yadda command.
Kappas. Galaxy Punks Black Core Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.24 11:59:00 - [44] Originally by: ls pos Originally by: Shintai OS? CPU? Most likely just a visual bug. Probably not.. Its more often then not, that 1 game/program gets evenly distributed among the cores. I was sure I read somewhere about the OS splitting the processing required among the different CPUs as well. __________________ Recruitment temporarily closed.
AleciaMoore	Posted - 2008.04.24 12:04:00 - [45] i do not know if it has quad core but it sure well run fast on my 2x quad core's
N0R0X Rage For Order Nihil-Obstat	Posted - 2008.04.24 12:16:00 - [46] First off Multi-Core developing is not wave wand poof program Even though peeps say that all four cores are evenly loaded it is not using the four cores as they should. Now I am no python expert here but as explain earlier python only uses one core. This means if you have a quad core only one core can be use for a single task. The evenly loaded cores you are seeing is not in fact eve using 4 cores but using 1 via thread hopping. So if core 1 does a task and the client requests another task to be done after that one then the work gets done on the next available "idle" core. (Fastest finger first) It actually has a very slight performance increase but hardly noticeable to any human. So now when core 2 is doing the next task core 1 can flush itself. But it is still only using one core. Using all cores to their full potential would be to split any calculation work up into (job devided but amount of cores) and have them each do a piece. This way the same single job is done faster. Although multicore processing/programming is already available it is a massive task to implement it. Hope I make sense since I don't think I ever do. Oh god, to many I's
Shintai Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards	Posted - 2008.04.24 12:20:00 - [47] Originally by: ls pos Originally by: Shintai OS? CPU? Most likely just a visual bug. Probably not.. Its more often then not, that 1 game/program gets evenly distributed among the cores. Hence they all hover around the same percentage. If u want it to use only 1 core, u have to set the affinity to 1 core. with the ctrl-alt-del yadda yadda command. A single threaded program will not be evenly distributed. If so its a performance losing bug and not some "feature". But in this case its most likely just a cosmetic viewing bug.
Fanjita	Posted - 2008.04.24 12:45:00 - [48] Originally by: Lin Haraka Originally by: LaVista Vista It all comes down to the stackless python, it just doesn't support concurrency across more than 1 core. What he said. In other news AMD Phenom rules nuff said you didnt understand a word of what he said did you? :)
ls pos The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.04.24 12:50:00 - [49] Originally by: Shintai Originally by: ls pos Originally by: Shintai OS? CPU? Most likely just a visual bug. Probably not.. Its more often then not, that 1 game/program gets evenly distributed among the cores. Hence they all hover around the same percentage. If u want it to use only 1 core, u have to set the affinity to 1 core. with the ctrl-alt-del yadda yadda command. A single threaded program will not be evenly distributed. If so its a performance losing bug and not some "feature". But in this case its most likely just a cosmetic viewing bug. Note that i wasnt talking about threads..
Shintai Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards	Posted - 2008.04.24 13:10:00 - [50] Originally by: ls pos Originally by: Shintai Originally by: ls pos Originally by: Shintai OS? CPU? Most likely just a visual bug. Probably not.. Its more often then not, that 1 game/program gets evenly distributed among the cores. Hence they all hover around the same percentage. If u want it to use only 1 core, u have to set the affinity to 1 core. with the ctrl-alt-del yadda yadda command. A single threaded program will not be evenly distributed. If so its a performance losing bug and not some "feature". But in this case its most likely just a cosmetic viewing bug. Note that i wasnt talking about threads.. Unless you talk about something completely different than running eve. Because EVE is singlethreaded and not distributed by nature. Only by flaw or by visual bug in the taskmgr. Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Mannakin Mercurialis Inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.04.24 13:33:00 - [51] Phenoms sucked until very recently ! There is a new verision out (see PC Pro article) where they have fixed the TLB erratum issue. The performance increase boost is around 13% apparently over the "old" (bugged) versions of the chip. Interestingly if I run Eve on my Dual-core laptop, I have to set affinity of the Eve process to one core or I get a fair amount of lag both in eve and in any other application I am running (even a web browser). Setting affinity to one core completely cures the lag and doesn't affect framerates significantly. I haven't had this issue on my AMD X2 set-up or on my new intel quad-core set-up. I'm not a PC programmer (mainframe!) but doesn't windows operating system assign the threads to a processor depending on work load in a multi-cpu system? I would expect this to show up as 25% of each processor being used instead of 100% of one processor unless you manually set affinities.
Shintai Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards	Posted - 2008.04.24 13:40:00 - [52] Originally by: Mannakin Phenoms sucked until very recently ! There is a new verision out (see PC Pro article) where they have fixed the TLB erratum issue. The performance increase boost is around 13% apparently over the "old" (bugged) versions of the chip. Interestingly if I run Eve on my Dual-core laptop, I have to set affinity of the Eve process to one core or I get a fair amount of lag both in eve and in any other application I am running (even a web browser). Setting affinity to one core completely cures the lag and doesn't affect framerates significantly. I haven't had this issue on my AMD X2 set-up or on my new intel quad-core set-up. I'm not a PC programmer (mainframe!) but doesn't windows operating system assign the threads to a processor depending on work load in a multi-cpu system? I would expect this to show up as 25% of each processor being used instead of 100% of one processor unless you manually set affinities. Windows assigns 1 thread to 1 Core. EvE is singlethreaded, 1 thread. So 1 core loaded. Phenom still suck with all respect. They just sucked incredible much with the TLB workaround aswell. Even today X2s still beat Phenoms due to the clockspeed advantage. The newly relased Phenom X3 reviews aint pretty either. http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/phenom-x3-8750.html http://www.hothardware.com/Articles/AMD_Phenom_X3_8750_TriCore_Processor/ http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/amd_phenom_x3_cpu_review/ http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=12877 http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=550 http://techreport.com/articles.x/14606 http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/view.php?cid=2&id=2539 http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3293 http://www.motherboards.org/reviews/hardware/1769_1.html http://www.guru3d.com/article/processor/529/ http://www.legitreviews.com/article/697/1/ http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2008/04/23/amd_phenom_x3_8750/1 http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/1397/amd_phenom_x3_triple_core_cpu/index.html Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Banana Torres The Green Banana Corporation	Posted - 2008.04.24 13:54:00 - [53] Originally by: Cassandra B I would be very happy to see dual core support at least. In my opinon, it would stop a lot of complaint about lag etc, those who have better computers will be advantatged =) would be an incentive for everybody to upgrade their computers and stop blaming CCP whe they get 'lag' even though its user side =) Just my opioion Could you take a look at the specs of my new computer and tell me what, in your opioion(sic), I should change on it to get rid of lag. Your are obviously more of an expert at PCs than me, cause I was sure that my computer was pretty good. I had to downgrade the size of the hard disks cause of a BIOS bug, maybe that's the problem. Or maybe its the graphics cards, they are getting a bit old now. My GX2s will arrive soon, do you think that this will cure the lag? Specs: Motherboard: EVGA S775 nForce 790i Ultra Triple SLI CPU: Intel Quad Core Extreme QX6850 3.00GHz Memory: Crucial 4GBKIT (2GBx2) DDR3 Disks: 5 x Hitachi 500MB 7200RPM Graphics: 2 x EVGA GeForce 8800GTX Optical: Pioneer 5x BluRay Reader DVD+-R/RW Internet: Virgin Media 20Mb Connection
Bimjo Caldari SKULLDOGS	Posted - 2008.04.24 14:46:00 - [54] lag is server side,your PC is fine
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.04.24 14:49:00 - [55] Edited by: LaVista Vista on 24/04/2008 14:54:19 Originally by: Bimjo lag is server side,your PC is fine If there is lag(There will always be latency), then there is "lag" on your client too. Try and load your market and go to search and search for "a". EDIT: Im sorry, i was a bit in a hurry posting that.
The TX Gallente Earth Inc. Zeta Tau Epsilon	Posted - 2008.04.24 14:50:00 - [56] I'm confused. -------------------- [Signature] [/Signature]
Shintai Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards	Posted - 2008.04.24 14:55:00 - [57] Originally by: LaVista Vista Edited by: LaVista Vista on 24/04/2008 14:54:19 Originally by: Bimjo lag is server side,your PC is fine If there is lag(There will always be latency), then there is "lag" on your client too. Try and load your market and go to search and search for "a". EDIT: Im sorry, i was a bit in a hurry posting that. I hope so, because that search is a query search on the server :P Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.24 14:58:00 - [58] Originally by: LaVista Vista Right, that's pretty much what I'm saying. If there is lag on the server, you will perceive it as lag on the client, because the UI can't draw while it's waiting for a response from the server. Further "proof" that the client is single-threaded. CCP did make a comment about 6 months ago they were working on that though... Originally by: Audri Fisher On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear
Kaimon ValDreth Minmatar	Posted - 2008.04.24 15:10:00 - [59] How unreasonable is it that after 10 years the entire code is rewritten into the latest code languages? Upgrade hardware all you want but you gotta remember the late 90s that was like windows ME and NT days... come on its time for an overhaul.
Faife Noctiscion	Posted - 2008.04.24 15:17:00 - [60] Originally by: Kaimon ValDreth How unreasonable is it that after 10 years the entire code is rewritten into the latest code languages? Upgrade hardware all you want but you gotta remember the late 90s that was like windows ME and NT days... come on its time for an overhaul. non-programmer spotted.

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