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Sazumaan Johnza Minmatar Southern Cross Incorporated Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.24 04:43:00 - [1] I have recently sexified my PC and chucked in a quad core. Dear Devs are you ever going to support Dual / Quad systems? "Eve is more filling than roast steaks slowly grilling over a rotating fire whilst marinating in a combination of Australian fruity wines and the best imported herbs..." - SChimera [16.4.07]
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2008.04.24 04:46:00 - [2] I just upgraded to a Q6600 myself, EVE CTDs now every time after I click on my character portrait after I log in =(. I filed a bug report, but still, very lame.
Shaun Klaroh Caldari Nova Mining Manufacturing and Research LTD	Posted - 2008.04.24 04:46:00 - [3] It never supported dual cores in the first place? WTH? ----- Quote: "Are these people prisoners?" Arkhan asked. "Not at all," Melak replied. "They're free to run and get shot any time they like."
voogru Gallente Massive Damage United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2008.04.24 05:10:00 - [4] EVE supports quad core. 1 client per core, 4 accounts at once. My own little gank squad. Hate Farmers? Click Here
Cassandra B	Posted - 2008.04.24 05:19:00 - [5] I would be very happy to see dual core support at least. In my opinon, it would stop a lot of complaint about lag etc, those who have better computers will be advantatged =) would be an incentive for everybody to upgrade their computers and stop blaming CCP whe they get 'lag' even though its user side =) Just my opioion
Snaps	Posted - 2008.04.24 05:27:00 - [6] yea, these cpu's have been out for what now 2 yrs or more. lets get this software dubble threaded asap...
Benglada Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.04.24 05:31:00 - [7] works on my q6600 fine, does only run on one proc IIRC though. --------------------------- Originally by: Arkanor 0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends. Sig nerfz0r - maximum allowed siz0r is 24000 bytz0r. - Devil ([email protected])
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.04.24 05:36:00 - [8] Originally by: Snaps yea, these cpu's have been out for what now 2 yrs or more. lets get this software dubble threaded asap... On startup, eve uses 7 threads. Why do you want more? It all comes down to the stackless python, it just doesn't support concurrency across more than 1 core.
Sazumaan Johnza Minmatar Southern Cross Incorporated Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.24 06:04:00 - [9] Originally by: LaVista Vista It all comes down to the stackless python, it just doesn't support concurrency across more than 1 core. Is that really true..? "Eve is more filling than roast steaks slowly grilling over a rotating fire whilst marinating in a combination of Australian fruity wines and the best imported herbs..." - SChimera [16.4.07]
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.04.24 06:08:00 - [10] Originally by: Sazumaan Johnza Originally by: LaVista Vista It all comes down to the stackless python, it just doesn't support concurrency across more than 1 core. Is that really true..? I have no in-depth experience with stackless python, but i believe that is the case, which is the same for the server software
Angela Toren Amarr Toren Shipyards	Posted - 2008.04.24 08:20:00 - [11] Edited by: Angela Toren on 24/04/2008 08:20:38 Originally by: LaVista Vista It all comes down to the stackless python, it just doesn't support concurrency across more than 1 core. Whoa that's a pretty big statement there mr. If you are right (and I hope you're not) then what you are saying is the EVE client and server nodes run on code that will always be limited to 1 processor 1 core? If that's true then therin lies the problem of why we can't have nice things i.e. big fleet fights. Can any real stackless python programmers confirm/deny LaVistas statement? If he's right can we have a EVE II please that utilizes dual processor and multi cores? _______ Oh Mindy...
Ankhesentapemkah Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.24 08:49:00 - [12] Originally by: Sazumaan Johnza Originally by: LaVista Vista It all comes down to the stackless python, it just doesn't support concurrency across more than 1 core. Is that really true..? I'm affraid it is, out of the box, python cannot be used on multiple cores, and actually has something called the Global Interpreter Lock that prevents multiple threads from being active at the same time. However, there are workarounds, such as breaking it up into multiple processes, which each run at different cores and communicate with eachother, instead of trying to run multiple threads. It would be logical to assume that they already have this on their servers, as different processes can take care of different, very specific aspects of the game. You don't need things like the Market and the Mission Journal to be in the same process, at least that's what I'd say as programmer. But this is just speculation and even I could of course be wrong. --- Consider voting for me in the CSM elections. I invite you to take a look at the campaign website for issues and further information. Visit our Campaign Website
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.04.24 08:56:00 - [13] Edited by: LaVista Vista on 24/04/2008 08:58:26 Originally by: Angela Toren Edited by: Angela Toren on 24/04/2008 08:20:38 Originally by: LaVista Vista It all comes down to the stackless python, it just doesn't support concurrency across more than 1 core. Whoa that's a pretty big statement there mr. If you are right (and I hope you're not) then what you are saying is the EVE client and server nodes run on code that will always be limited to 1 processor 1 core? If that's true then therin lies the problem of why we can't have nice things i.e. big fleet fights. Can any real stackless python programmers confirm/deny LaVistas statement? If he's right can we have a EVE II please that utilizes dual processor and multi cores? It's definately the case on the server. ALL system services runs in 1 process, and can't be distributed across more than 1 core. EDIT: You have to remember that the source is up to about 10 years old at this point. At this point, dualcore CPU's weren't common, so the system wasn't designed with it in mind, neither that it should have to scale.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.04.24 08:57:00 - [14] Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah However, there are workarounds, such as breaking it up into multiple processes, which each run at different cores and communicate with eachother, instead of trying to run multiple threads. It would be logical to assume that they already have this on their servers, as different processes can take care of different, very specific aspects of the game. You don't need things like the Market and the Mission Journal to be in the same process, at least that's what I'd say as programmer. But this is just speculation and even I could of course be wrong. But from what i understand, it's NOT the case on the server. 1 system, which inludes several services, all has to run inside 1 core. That was what was explained at fanfest(s) and devblogs.
Lin Haraka Legio Conquistus Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.24 09:00:00 - [15] Originally by: LaVista Vista It all comes down to the stackless python, it just doesn't support concurrency across more than 1 core. What he said. In other news AMD Phenom rules nuff said
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.04.24 09:02:00 - [16] Originally by: LaVista Vista It's definately the case on the server. ALL system services runs in 1 process, and can't be distributed across more than 1 core. Hence Jita.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.04.24 09:06:00 - [17] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: LaVista Vista It's definately the case on the server. ALL system services runs in 1 process, and can't be distributed across more than 1 core. Hence Jita. Exactly. If the market service was moved to another core, it would help a lot. Originally by: Lin Haraka Originally by: LaVista Vista It all comes down to the stackless python, it just doesn't support concurrency across more than 1 core. What he said. In other news AMD Phenom rules nuff said I haven't read a lot about the Phenom. But does the Phenom actually have any algorithms to splits threads across cores?
Lin Haraka Legio Conquistus Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.24 09:13:00 - [18] LaVista talked to me daaaang my medications are working :P Well i dont know about the thread splitting but AMD Phenom philosophy for quads is 4 standalone cores opposed to Intels "quad" which is 2*core duo. The test favour the Intel but i think thats just programming bias-ness-itty :P Tbh i didnt experience any freezeups or anything since i welded it in to me box.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.04.24 09:16:00 - [19] Originally by: Lin Haraka LaVista talked to me daaaang my medications are working :P Hi there Mr/Mrs. How are you today? It's nice to meet you. I shall read a bit more about the Phenom doing my lunch break.. T-Minus 4+ minutes!
Lin Haraka Legio Conquistus Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.24 09:18:00 - [20] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Lin Haraka LaVista talked to me daaaang my medications are working :P Hi there Mr/Mrs. How are you today? It's nice to meet you. I shall read a bit more about the Phenom doing my lunch break.. T-Minus 4+ minutes! Uuuuh 4mins I always wanted to know how to tell Pleasant eating must be a phrase for it somewhere :( Damn my non english native language
Shintai Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards	Posted - 2008.04.24 09:40:00 - [21] Edited by: Shintai on 24/04/2008 09:41:58 Originally by: Lin Haraka Originally by: LaVista Vista It all comes down to the stackless python, it just doesn't support concurrency across more than 1 core. What he said. In other news AMD Phenom rules nuff said Ye, they rule the flop and suck of the CPU world. Anyway, Eve is single threaded. The best performance right now would be a Core 2 Duo if 1-2 clients. Or a Core 2 Quad if you are in the 3-4+ range. But on the other hands Quads are so cheap anyway. Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.04.24 09:42:00 - [22] Originally by: Lin Haraka Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Lin Haraka LaVista talked to me daaaang my medications are working :P Hi there Mr/Mrs. How are you today? It's nice to meet you. I shall read a bit more about the Phenom doing my lunch break.. T-Minus 4+ minutes! Uuuuh 4mins I always wanted to know how to tell Pleasant eating must be a phrase for it somewhere :( Damn my non english native language My lunchbreak ends in 4 minutes now. I ate a nice egg and bacon sandwhich, and i found out that the Phenom is worthless!
Robacz Essence Trade Essence Enterprises	Posted - 2008.04.24 09:49:00 - [23] Edited by: Robacz on 24/04/2008 09:49:53 Originally by: LaVista Vista Exactly. If the market service was moved to another core, it would help a lot. Hmm, I remember dev saying that market itself has very low effect on Jita's lag. He said item manipulation is what is causing the lag (which includes goods movement from/to hangars when people buy/sell, but also fitting, all container work, ship cargo, industry jobs etc etc). Also I am not 100% sure, but I think I remember one of them saying that market service is not running on same machine as Jita solar system. Since market is region wide, it would make sense.
Lin Haraka Legio Conquistus Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.24 09:52:00 - [24] Originally by: LaVista Vista My lunchbreak ends in 4 minutes now. I ate a nice egg and bacon sandwhich, and i found out that the Phenom is worthless! first off dont mention Bacon to me second off phenom worthless is not its the true quad processor none of that weld another product to our previous (references two coreduos) c**p for me
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.04.24 09:57:00 - [25] Originally by: Robacz Edited by: Robacz on 24/04/2008 09:49:53 Originally by: LaVista Vista Exactly. If the market service was moved to another core, it would help a lot. Hmm, I remember dev saying that market itself has very low effect on Jita's lag. He said item manipulation is what is causing the lag (which includes goods movement from/to hangars when people buy/sell, but also fitting, all container work, ship cargo, industry jobs etc etc). Also I am not 100% sure, but I think I remember one of them saying that market service is not running on same machine as Jita solar system. Since market is region wide, it would make sense. Wait, i could swear that the dev said that it was the market, which caused all the lag.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.04.24 09:59:00 - [26] Originally by: Lin Haraka Originally by: LaVista Vista My lunchbreak ends in 4 minutes now. I ate a nice egg and bacon sandwhich, and i found out that the Phenom is worthless! first off dont mention Bacon to me second off phenom worthless is not its the true quad processor none of that weld another product to our previous (references two coreduos) c**p for me Oh, I'm sorry. I couldn't possibly leave out the danish bacon in the sandwhich. They didn't have any chicken sandwhich left. But while the architecture of Phenom is most interesting, the C2D is faster, according to THG. I should have explained that in details, but the proffesor was entering class when i was writing the post
Robacz Essence Trade Essence Enterprises	Posted - 2008.04.24 10:01:00 - [27] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Robacz Edited by: Robacz on 24/04/2008 09:49:53 Originally by: LaVista Vista Exactly. If the market service was moved to another core, it would help a lot. Hmm, I remember dev saying that market itself has very low effect on Jita's lag. He said item manipulation is what is causing the lag (which includes goods movement from/to hangars when people buy/sell, but also fitting, all container work, ship cargo, industry jobs etc etc). Also I am not 100% sure, but I think I remember one of them saying that market service is not running on same machine as Jita solar system. Since market is region wide, it would make sense. Wait, i could swear that the dev said that it was the market, which caused all the lag. He said item manipulation, which (on Jita) comes often from market, not market service itself (when some system crashes, market still works in other systems within region - and when market crashes, it doesnt work in any system within region - that makes me believe that market thread is independent on solar system threads). I am trying to find the thread, but since Eve-O search sucks, Eve-Search returns timeouts it is not easy... :P
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.04.24 10:02:00 - [28] Originally by: Robacz Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Robacz Edited by: Robacz on 24/04/2008 09:49:53 Originally by: LaVista Vista Exactly. If the market service was moved to another core, it would help a lot. Hmm, I remember dev saying that market itself has very low effect on Jita's lag. He said item manipulation is what is causing the lag (which includes goods movement from/to hangars when people buy/sell, but also fitting, all container work, ship cargo, industry jobs etc etc). Also I am not 100% sure, but I think I remember one of them saying that market service is not running on same machine as Jita solar system. Since market is region wide, it would make sense. Wait, i could swear that the dev said that it was the market, which caused all the lag. He said item manipulation, which (on Jita) comes often from market, not market service itself (when some system crashes, market still works in other systems within region - and when market crashes, it doesnt work in any system within region - that makes me believe that market thread is independent on solar system threads). I am trying to find the thread, but since Eve-O search sucks, Eve-Search returns timeouts it is not easy... :P You are probably right, it would also make more sense!
Bimjo Caldari SKULLDOGS	Posted - 2008.04.24 10:45:00 - [29] have to disagree whatever the limits of python and the trickery CCP uses, my 4 cores all fire up and work,pretty much evenly, when I run EVE. but knowing you guys normally know your stuff,can someone explain what is happening on my quad core? thanks
Shintai Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards	Posted - 2008.04.24 10:48:00 - [30] Originally by: Bimjo have to disagree whatever the limits of python and the trickery CCP uses, my 4 cores all fire up and work,pretty much evenly, when I run EVE. but knowing you guys normally know your stuff,can someone explain what is happening on my quad core? thanks 100% on each core? or 25% on each? If so, your OS/Game is simply jumping the thread around. In short..performance loss. Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Lin Haraka Legio Conquistus Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.24 10:55:00 - [31] Originally by: Shintai 100% on each core? or 25% on each? If so, your OS/Game is simply jumping the thread around. In short..performance loss. I get a nice even-ish spread on my phenom and trust you me i have none of them performance losses that intels are so fond off
Bimjo Caldari SKULLDOGS	Posted - 2008.04.24 10:55:00 - [32] Originally by: Shintai Originally by: Bimjo have to disagree whatever the limits of python and the trickery CCP uses, my 4 cores all fire up and work,pretty much evenly, when I run EVE. but knowing you guys normally know your stuff,can someone explain what is happening on my quad core? thanks 100% on each core? or 25% on each? If so, your OS/Game is simply jumping the thread around. In short..performance loss. it runs at around 25 to 30% per core. so is it a "fake" quad core support ? OS Vista
Lin Haraka Legio Conquistus Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.24 11:04:00 - [33] @Bimjo what processor you got?
Bimjo Caldari SKULLDOGS	Posted - 2008.04.24 11:07:00 - [34] Originally by: Lin Haraka @Bimjo what processor you got? Visa home premium,pre-SP1 Q6600 , not over clocked 8800 Ultra SLI , not over clocked I doubt the rest of my spec would matter?
Lin Haraka Legio Conquistus Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.24 11:11:00 - [35] Originally by: Bimjo Originally by: Lin Haraka @Bimjo what processor you got? Visa home premium,pre-SP1 Q6600 , not over clocked 8800 Ultra SLI , not over clocked I doubt the rest of my spec would matter? No i think not. Well you are getting the same thing as me. The cores divide the task among them and really thats all it matters. I bet you dont have any "performance sinks" seeing as how you got a stronger graphics card than me so its all good I wouldnt worry about any fake quad support lol
Shintai Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards	Posted - 2008.04.24 11:12:00 - [36] Originally by: Lin Haraka Originally by: Shintai 100% on each core? or 25% on each? If so, your OS/Game is simply jumping the thread around. In short..performance loss. I get a nice even-ish spread on my phenom and trust you me i have none of them performance losses that intels are so fond off Ye im sorry. We with Core 2s just enjoy some 20% faster speed at the same clock, less heat and higher frequencies. So yes, you do have a performance loss when EvE jumps around and the core that takes ownership of the thread have to load its L2 and L1 with the new data. Plus wait ofcourse. Either you OS is bugged or your CPU is. Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Shintai Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards	Posted - 2008.04.24 11:13:00 - [37] Originally by: Bimjo Originally by: Shintai Originally by: Bimjo have to disagree whatever the limits of python and the trickery CCP uses, my 4 cores all fire up and work,pretty much evenly, when I run EVE. but knowing you guys normally know your stuff,can someone explain what is happening on my quad core? thanks 100% on each core? or 25% on each? If so, your OS/Game is simply jumping the thread around. In short..performance loss. it runs at around 25 to 30% per core. so is it a "fake" quad core support ? OS Vista Yes, EVE will use 50-100% on 1 Core at a time approx. SO if you are playing EvE with 1 Client, you will have 1 core loaded and 3 cores idle. Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Lin Haraka Legio Conquistus Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.24 11:17:00 - [38] About the speed its kind of relative like time you know the question is comparing to what but ok regarding the higher freqs meh its just epeen stroking if you ask meh My phenom is working quite nicely @ 45 Celsius thank you very much.
Anubis Xian Vertigo One	Posted - 2008.04.24 11:17:00 - [39] For multiple Eve clients, the graphics card and memory seem to be the only bottleneck if you have at least 1 core for each running client. The CPU isn't really the issue. Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal. I'm the Juggernaut, *****!
Bimjo Caldari SKULLDOGS	Posted - 2008.04.24 11:22:00 - [40] Originally by: Shintai Originally by: Bimjo Originally by: Shintai Originally by: Bimjo have to disagree whatever the limits of python and the trickery CCP uses, my 4 cores all fire up and work,pretty much evenly, when I run EVE. but knowing you guys normally know your stuff,can someone explain what is happening on my quad core? thanks 100% on each core? or 25% on each? If so, your OS/Game is simply jumping the thread around. In short..performance loss. it runs at around 25 to 30% per core. so is it a "fake" quad core support ? OS Vista Yes, EVE will use 50-100% on 1 Core at a time approx. SO if you are playing EvE with 1 Client, you will have 1 core loaded and 3 cores idle. sorry shintai, I don't understand none of my cores are idle in EVE,and they all run at similar percentages
Luh Windan Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2008.04.24 11:22:00 - [41] Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Originally by: Sazumaan Johnza Originally by: LaVista Vista It all comes down to the stackless python, it just doesn't support concurrency across more than 1 core. Is that really true..? While snippits like this do little justice to all the philosophies of scaling processes - you are correct in that one single python process is not able to use more than one core. However the way you scale python is multiple processes - and in fact this way of scaling is becoming increasingly prevalent. Threading - which became popular via Java is increasingly seen as a bad way to scale. For what it is worth - my company builds large scale python based systems scaled in just this way. Our software is built from many processes that communicate via messages and share as little as possible ("shared nothing" is a current buzz phrase in scaling terminology). Multi-core means you can throw more processes at a box.
Shintai Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards	Posted - 2008.04.24 11:28:00 - [42] Originally by: Bimjo Originally by: Shintai Originally by: Bimjo Originally by: Shintai Originally by: Bimjo have to disagree whatever the limits of python and the trickery CCP uses, my 4 cores all fire up and work,pretty much evenly, when I run EVE. but knowing you guys normally know your stuff,can someone explain what is happening on my quad core? thanks 100% on each core? or 25% on each? If so, your OS/Game is simply jumping the thread around. In short..performance loss. it runs at around 25 to 30% per core. so is it a "fake" quad core support ? OS Vista Yes, EVE will use 50-100% on 1 Core at a time approx. SO if you are playing EvE with 1 Client, you will have 1 core loaded and 3 cores idle. sorry shintai, I don't understand none of my cores are idle in EVE,and they all run at similar percentages OS? CPU? Most likely just a visual bug. Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
ls pos The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.04.24 11:41:00 - [43] Originally by: Shintai OS? CPU? Most likely just a visual bug. Probably not.. Its more often then not, that 1 game/program gets evenly distributed among the cores. Hence they all hover around the same percentage. If u want it to use only 1 core, u have to set the affinity to 1 core. with the ctrl-alt-del yadda yadda command.
Kappas. Galaxy Punks Black Core Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.24 11:59:00 - [44] Originally by: ls pos Originally by: Shintai OS? CPU? Most likely just a visual bug. Probably not.. Its more often then not, that 1 game/program gets evenly distributed among the cores. I was sure I read somewhere about the OS splitting the processing required among the different CPUs as well. __________________ Recruitment temporarily closed.
AleciaMoore	Posted - 2008.04.24 12:04:00 - [45] i do not know if it has quad core but it sure well run fast on my 2x quad core's
N0R0X Rage For Order Nihil-Obstat	Posted - 2008.04.24 12:16:00 - [46] First off Multi-Core developing is not wave wand poof program Even though peeps say that all four cores are evenly loaded it is not using the four cores as they should. Now I am no python expert here but as explain earlier python only uses one core. This means if you have a quad core only one core can be use for a single task. The evenly loaded cores you are seeing is not in fact eve using 4 cores but using 1 via thread hopping. So if core 1 does a task and the client requests another task to be done after that one then the work gets done on the next available "idle" core. (Fastest finger first) It actually has a very slight performance increase but hardly noticeable to any human. So now when core 2 is doing the next task core 1 can flush itself. But it is still only using one core. Using all cores to their full potential would be to split any calculation work up into (job devided but amount of cores) and have them each do a piece. This way the same single job is done faster. Although multicore processing/programming is already available it is a massive task to implement it. Hope I make sense since I don't think I ever do. Oh god, to many I's
Shintai Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards	Posted - 2008.04.24 12:20:00 - [47] Originally by: ls pos Originally by: Shintai OS? CPU? Most likely just a visual bug. Probably not.. Its more often then not, that 1 game/program gets evenly distributed among the cores. Hence they all hover around the same percentage. If u want it to use only 1 core, u have to set the affinity to 1 core. with the ctrl-alt-del yadda yadda command. A single threaded program will not be evenly distributed. If so its a performance losing bug and not some "feature". But in this case its most likely just a cosmetic viewing bug.
Fanjita	Posted - 2008.04.24 12:45:00 - [48] Originally by: Lin Haraka Originally by: LaVista Vista It all comes down to the stackless python, it just doesn't support concurrency across more than 1 core. What he said. In other news AMD Phenom rules nuff said you didnt understand a word of what he said did you? :)
ls pos The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.04.24 12:50:00 - [49] Originally by: Shintai Originally by: ls pos Originally by: Shintai OS? CPU? Most likely just a visual bug. Probably not.. Its more often then not, that 1 game/program gets evenly distributed among the cores. Hence they all hover around the same percentage. If u want it to use only 1 core, u have to set the affinity to 1 core. with the ctrl-alt-del yadda yadda command. A single threaded program will not be evenly distributed. If so its a performance losing bug and not some "feature". But in this case its most likely just a cosmetic viewing bug. Note that i wasnt talking about threads..
Shintai Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards	Posted - 2008.04.24 13:10:00 - [50] Originally by: ls pos Originally by: Shintai Originally by: ls pos Originally by: Shintai OS? CPU? Most likely just a visual bug. Probably not.. Its more often then not, that 1 game/program gets evenly distributed among the cores. Hence they all hover around the same percentage. If u want it to use only 1 core, u have to set the affinity to 1 core. with the ctrl-alt-del yadda yadda command. A single threaded program will not be evenly distributed. If so its a performance losing bug and not some "feature". But in this case its most likely just a cosmetic viewing bug. Note that i wasnt talking about threads.. Unless you talk about something completely different than running eve. Because EVE is singlethreaded and not distributed by nature. Only by flaw or by visual bug in the taskmgr. Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Mannakin Mercurialis Inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.04.24 13:33:00 - [51] Phenoms sucked until very recently ! There is a new verision out (see PC Pro article) where they have fixed the TLB erratum issue. The performance increase boost is around 13% apparently over the "old" (bugged) versions of the chip. Interestingly if I run Eve on my Dual-core laptop, I have to set affinity of the Eve process to one core or I get a fair amount of lag both in eve and in any other application I am running (even a web browser). Setting affinity to one core completely cures the lag and doesn't affect framerates significantly. I haven't had this issue on my AMD X2 set-up or on my new intel quad-core set-up. I'm not a PC programmer (mainframe!) but doesn't windows operating system assign the threads to a processor depending on work load in a multi-cpu system? I would expect this to show up as 25% of each processor being used instead of 100% of one processor unless you manually set affinities.
Shintai Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards	Posted - 2008.04.24 13:40:00 - [52] Originally by: Mannakin Phenoms sucked until very recently ! There is a new verision out (see PC Pro article) where they have fixed the TLB erratum issue. The performance increase boost is around 13% apparently over the "old" (bugged) versions of the chip. Interestingly if I run Eve on my Dual-core laptop, I have to set affinity of the Eve process to one core or I get a fair amount of lag both in eve and in any other application I am running (even a web browser). Setting affinity to one core completely cures the lag and doesn't affect framerates significantly. I haven't had this issue on my AMD X2 set-up or on my new intel quad-core set-up. I'm not a PC programmer (mainframe!) but doesn't windows operating system assign the threads to a processor depending on work load in a multi-cpu system? I would expect this to show up as 25% of each processor being used instead of 100% of one processor unless you manually set affinities. Windows assigns 1 thread to 1 Core. EvE is singlethreaded, 1 thread. So 1 core loaded. Phenom still suck with all respect. They just sucked incredible much with the TLB workaround aswell. Even today X2s still beat Phenoms due to the clockspeed advantage. The newly relased Phenom X3 reviews aint pretty either. http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/phenom-x3-8750.html http://www.hothardware.com/Articles/AMD_Phenom_X3_8750_TriCore_Processor/ http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/amd_phenom_x3_cpu_review/ http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=12877 http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=550 http://techreport.com/articles.x/14606 http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/view.php?cid=2&id=2539 http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3293 http://www.motherboards.org/reviews/hardware/1769_1.html http://www.guru3d.com/article/processor/529/ http://www.legitreviews.com/article/697/1/ http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2008/04/23/amd_phenom_x3_8750/1 http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/1397/amd_phenom_x3_triple_core_cpu/index.html Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Banana Torres The Green Banana Corporation	Posted - 2008.04.24 13:54:00 - [53] Originally by: Cassandra B I would be very happy to see dual core support at least. In my opinon, it would stop a lot of complaint about lag etc, those who have better computers will be advantatged =) would be an incentive for everybody to upgrade their computers and stop blaming CCP whe they get 'lag' even though its user side =) Just my opioion Could you take a look at the specs of my new computer and tell me what, in your opioion(sic), I should change on it to get rid of lag. Your are obviously more of an expert at PCs than me, cause I was sure that my computer was pretty good. I had to downgrade the size of the hard disks cause of a BIOS bug, maybe that's the problem. Or maybe its the graphics cards, they are getting a bit old now. My GX2s will arrive soon, do you think that this will cure the lag? Specs: Motherboard: EVGA S775 nForce 790i Ultra Triple SLI CPU: Intel Quad Core Extreme QX6850 3.00GHz Memory: Crucial 4GBKIT (2GBx2) DDR3 Disks: 5 x Hitachi 500MB 7200RPM Graphics: 2 x EVGA GeForce 8800GTX Optical: Pioneer 5x BluRay Reader DVD+-R/RW Internet: Virgin Media 20Mb Connection
Bimjo Caldari SKULLDOGS	Posted - 2008.04.24 14:46:00 - [54] lag is server side,your PC is fine
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.04.24 14:49:00 - [55] Edited by: LaVista Vista on 24/04/2008 14:54:19 Originally by: Bimjo lag is server side,your PC is fine If there is lag(There will always be latency), then there is "lag" on your client too. Try and load your market and go to search and search for "a". EDIT: Im sorry, i was a bit in a hurry posting that.
The TX Gallente Earth Inc. Zeta Tau Epsilon	Posted - 2008.04.24 14:50:00 - [56] I'm confused. -------------------- [Signature] [/Signature]
Shintai Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards	Posted - 2008.04.24 14:55:00 - [57] Originally by: LaVista Vista Edited by: LaVista Vista on 24/04/2008 14:54:19 Originally by: Bimjo lag is server side,your PC is fine If there is lag(There will always be latency), then there is "lag" on your client too. Try and load your market and go to search and search for "a". EDIT: Im sorry, i was a bit in a hurry posting that. I hope so, because that search is a query search on the server :P Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.24 14:58:00 - [58] Originally by: LaVista Vista Right, that's pretty much what I'm saying. If there is lag on the server, you will perceive it as lag on the client, because the UI can't draw while it's waiting for a response from the server. Further "proof" that the client is single-threaded. CCP did make a comment about 6 months ago they were working on that though... Originally by: Audri Fisher On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear
Kaimon ValDreth Minmatar	Posted - 2008.04.24 15:10:00 - [59] How unreasonable is it that after 10 years the entire code is rewritten into the latest code languages? Upgrade hardware all you want but you gotta remember the late 90s that was like windows ME and NT days... come on its time for an overhaul.
Faife Noctiscion	Posted - 2008.04.24 15:17:00 - [60] Originally by: Kaimon ValDreth How unreasonable is it that after 10 years the entire code is rewritten into the latest code languages? Upgrade hardware all you want but you gotta remember the late 90s that was like windows ME and NT days... come on its time for an overhaul. non-programmer spotted.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.04.24 15:27:00 - [61] Originally by: Faife Originally by: Kaimon ValDreth How unreasonable is it that after 10 years the entire code is rewritten into the latest code languages? Upgrade hardware all you want but you gotta remember the late 90s that was like windows ME and NT days... come on its time for an overhaul. non-programmer spotted. This guy sums it up nicely. Stackless python is fairly new. And fairly old languages like C++ would be MUCH better for such tasks, but they require a lot more work.
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.24 15:27:00 - [62] Originally by: Kaimon ValDreth How unreasonable is it that after 10 years the entire code is rewritten into the latest code languages? Upgrade hardware all you want but you gotta remember the late 90s that was like windows ME and NT days... come on its time for an overhaul. CCP is already running the latest version of this programming language. They are also constantly altering and adjusting their internal code to enhance performance, including a major re-write of the network stack which is in testing on SISI. Originally by: Audri Fisher On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear
Kaimon ValDreth Minmatar	Posted - 2008.04.24 15:31:00 - [63] Yeah your right Im not a programmer however if stackless python can't support any of the newer technologies then...?
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.04.24 15:34:00 - [64] Originally by: Kaimon ValDreth Yeah your right Im not a programmer however if stackless python can't support any of the newer technologies then...? It all comes down to how much time CCP wants to spend on it.
Kaimon ValDreth Minmatar	Posted - 2008.04.24 15:38:00 - [65] Edited by: Kaimon ValDreth on 24/04/2008 15:40:25 Edited by: Kaimon ValDreth on 24/04/2008 15:39:07 Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Kaimon ValDreth Yeah your right Im not a programmer however if stackless python can't support any of the newer technologies then...? It all comes down to how much time CCP wants to spend on it. Precisely this is what I was asking, is it unreasonable to rewrite the code or chose different languages, ultimately reinvest on bringing the game up to date utilizing all the newer technologies they have at their disposal. After many years of just tweaks and rewriting current older code that cannot utilize this technology wouldn't this be a worthwhile investment into the game if they plan on keeping it around for awhile? A 10 year lifespan on a game code is freeking amazing when compared to other games. Perhaps reinventing the game could spark new life in the game... possibly bring in new people... yes new people not more alts... would need less alts if we had more people =) people do not = bots
ReallyDeadKenny	Posted - 2008.04.24 16:18:00 - [66] That would cost them a ton of money for minimal improvement...
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.24 16:20:00 - [67] You would also be very amazed at the number of games that do NOT support multiple threads due to timing issues. It isn't as simple as a check box in the compiler telling it to be multi-cpu aware, it is a major (like start from the beginning) re-write. Originally by: Audri Fisher On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear
Luh Windan Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2008.04.24 16:29:00 - [68] Edited by: Luh Windan on 24/04/2008 16:29:48 Originally by: Kaimon ValDreth [ Precisely this is what I was asking, is it unreasonable to rewrite the code or chose different languages, ultimately reinvest on bringing the game up to date utilizing all the newer technologies they have at their disposal. After many years of just tweaks and rewriting current older code that cannot utilize this technology wouldn't this be a worthwhile investment into the game if they plan on keeping it around for awhile? While not wanting to sully this thread overly with facts - multi process is the future of scaling and not threading. Stackless is not the issue here - in fact it supports modern thinking on scaling very well. Is it worth re-writing the client to be multi process to take advantage of multi core machines? I guess the thing you would need to know to answer this is what the average players machine looks like AND how much benefit you would get compared say to continued improvements on the servers. Given we have neither of those pieces of information then ranting and raving at CCP for not building it right seems (especially when most of the people in this thread have no idea what they are talking about) seems a little presumptuous. Originally by: Kaimon ValDreth Perhaps reinventing the game could spark new life in the game... possibly bring in new people Yes because this game is clearly dying a death. Mind you I am only new here myself - I wonder who's alt I am?
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.04.24 16:38:00 - [69] Originally by: Luh Windan Edited by: Luh Windan on 24/04/2008 16:29:48 Originally by: Kaimon ValDreth [ Precisely this is what I was asking, is it unreasonable to rewrite the code or chose different languages, ultimately reinvest on bringing the game up to date utilizing all the newer technologies they have at their disposal. After many years of just tweaks and rewriting current older code that cannot utilize this technology wouldn't this be a worthwhile investment into the game if they plan on keeping it around for awhile? While not wanting to sully this thread overly with facts - multi process is the future of scaling and not threading. Stackless is not the issue here - in fact it supports modern thinking on scaling very well. Is it worth re-writing the client to be multi process to take advantage of multi core machines? I guess the thing you would need to know to answer this is what the average players machine looks like AND how much benefit you would get compared say to continued improvements on the servers. Given we have neither of those pieces of information then ranting and raving at CCP for not building it right seems (especially when most of the people in this thread have no idea what they are talking about) seems a little presumptuous. Originally by: Kaimon ValDreth Perhaps reinventing the game could spark new life in the game... possibly bring in new people Yes because this game is clearly dying a death. Mind you I am only new here myself - I wonder who's alt I am? I'm sorry, but was this post a joke? Multi-process can't be compared to multithreaded programs.
Luh Windan Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2008.04.24 16:44:00 - [70] Originally by: LaVista Vista I'm sorry, but was this post a joke? Multi-process can't be compared to multithreaded programs. Oh sorry I (and my company) only build large multi machine , many user systems for a living so I clearly don't know what I am talking about. Do a little research - an awful lot of people are getting a lot more milage out of multiprocess shared nothing systems. And while we are at it well written single threaded asynchronous systems are much more reliable and performant where the system is I/O bound - like for example, oh I don't know a network game client.
Angela Toren Amarr Toren Shipyards	Posted - 2008.04.25 10:19:00 - [71] Originally by: Kaimon ValDreth How unreasonable is it that after 10 years the entire code is rewritten into the latest code languages? Upgrade hardware all you want but you gotta remember the late 90s that was like windows ME and NT days... come on its time for an overhaul. Yes but what you fail to realise is that the game is now LIVE. That severely limits how much time and programmers you can throw at such a project. Sooner or later it has to be done esp if the sub rate climbs after factional warefare and ambulation. In fact i dread to think of how the servers will cope with all the extra pew pew when factional warfare comes to town. Don't worry, one day we will see 500 v 500 battles, they will be intense and last for hours! _______ Oh Mindy...
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.04.25 10:52:00 - [72] Originally by: Angela Toren Originally by: Kaimon ValDreth How unreasonable is it that after 10 years the entire code is rewritten into the latest code languages? Upgrade hardware all you want but you gotta remember the late 90s that was like windows ME and NT days... come on its time for an overhaul. Yes but what you fail to realise is that the game is now LIVE. That severely limits how much time and programmers you can throw at such a project. Sooner or later it has to be done esp if the sub rate climbs after factional warefare and ambulation. In fact i dread to think of how the servers will cope with all the extra pew pew when factional warfare comes to town. Don't worry, one day we will see 500 v 500 battles, they will be intense and last for hours! I hope that CCP will take the server down for 3 days in a row, and patch the whole thing up with this summers expansion, and upgrade the server with the infiniband solution, and deploy the stack which will allow for services to be moved between nodes. At that point, we COULD see 500 v 500 be more feasible. Of course, at this point we can only speculate about how much it can scale. But we will have to see. I think the future is bright. It's just a matter of time!
Issei Gallente Isotope Trading Co	Posted - 2008.04.25 16:58:00 - [73] Sorry if my q may seem a bit stupid, but, regardless of whether multi-core systems are better when running a single instance of eve or not, they are still better when running a lot of them, right?
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.04.25 17:00:00 - [74] Originally by: Issei Sorry if my q may seem a bit stupid, but, regardless of whether multi-core systems are better when running a single instance of eve or not, they are still better when running a lot of them, right? The bottleneck will quickly become your graphics card, rather than your CPU. But yes, in this case, having a multi- or quad-core system, is, in theory, better for multitasking with 2 client.

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