Soldarius
United Highsec Front
The 99 Percent
174
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Posted - 2012.03.06 12:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:Quote:I like the idea, but also agree that unless ecm boats get something in return (either hp or resist buff or something) to compensate, you will simply turn ecm boats into merely sacraficial bullseyes. I love how people keep saying ECM ships are fine because they have low tanks, apparently not realising that they're jamming at anything from 70-150+km. You'd be surprised how small an issue lack of tank is when you're that far out. Also most proper ECM ships will still carry some buffer, my Falcon has something like 20k EHP which, while not award winning, is a long way from the "look at them funny and they explode" description people keep giving them.
This is truth. While I haven't been flying recons anywhere near as long as Dutchess, I can categorically confirm the truth of this statement.
I also agree that ECM can be ridiculous in small gangs, especially if you know what you are going against. However, it can also fail spectacularly. I'm recalling an engagement a couple weeks ago where I in my Falcon and a few bros in mostly cruisers and thrashers r4ped a Dominix, Apoc, and Wolf, due to my permajamming 2 of them, and getting about 50% of my jams on the domi.
In another engagement, with a rack of correct racials, I had to warp out sooner than I wanted due to missing a lot of jam cycles that I usually don't and getting drone aggro from an approaching Ishkur.
My point here is that ECM is still fairly random, so long as the targeted ships have a decent sensor strength. It is not reasonable to say that it's unfair that your Dramiel, AF, or other fotm angel/winmatar ship can't kill a dedicated ECM ship and all my bros solo. Of course it can't. It's like going to Compton in LA and picking a fight with a big black man. You're on his turf and he's got the advantage. Proper planning and tactics are needed.
ECCM works fine, so long as the ship it's mounted on has a reasonable sensor strength to begin with. Logis and recons are prime examples of this. If I know I'm going up against other ECM ships, I fit an ECCM instead of 5th jammer. OH, GOD! I just gave up a useful item to fit a not useful one!!1!!!1! Oh, noez! Wait, that enemy Falcon didn't jam me after all. I can still fight! 
A jammed ship is useless. An unjammed one still does damage and has to be considered, even if it has slightly less EHP or can web/scram.
Drones work very well vs ECM ships. But as stated, the controlling ship has to be in range for them to work. Fast drone boats like the Ishkur, Ishtar, Dramiel, and Cynabal all carry lots of drones. Get closer, wait for him to miss a cycle, and let him have it. Or, like the domi, use sentries and fit for range.
FoF missiles suck. They need a serious buff in damage. They also only target the closest aggressor, even if its a drone. They need to target ECM ships. ECM pilots would then have to adjust to counter the counter. This is good for evolving pvp and I would support it. It also fits the backstory as most missile ships are Caldari and Amarr.
However, I would like to see a turret equivalent. It is not right that only missile slingers have an option and turret ships do not. Perhaps reworking the passive targeter along with the target locking formula can be done.
I believe the way it is done now is that a hit with an ECM module reduces your max locked targets to an absolute value of 0. Perhaps a better way would be for the ECM module to decrease your max locked targets by whatever you max is, minus the passive targeter bonus of +1 per module). The passive targeter bonuses would be a different subset of locked targets that ECM cannot touch. This would be fair. In order to counter ECM so effectively, you would have to give up that slot. In fact, it might be OP vs ECM so that a damage reduction should be applied that would reflect the properties of a less accurate targeting system.
I don't want to hear about "I have to give up tank/dps slots so I can counter ECM. Wahh!!!" What do you think we are doing by fitting ECM? ECM modules are mid-slots and our bonusing modules are low slot items. Our ships do crap dps. The only thing we can do is jam or run. Thus we jam very well. It is also one of the few reliable ways of killing or neutralizing winmatar ships.
OP's suggestion is one of the better ones. But no one ship or fit is capable of dealing with everything out there. Not even Falcon.
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