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Abaddon Armor resists

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Ioci Gallente Ioci Exploration	Posted - 2008.04.25 10:23:00 - [1] Resists With Battleship 5 no mods on EM: 63.625% Exp: 41.8% Kin: 45.4375% Therm: 52.7125% T1 Active modules (50%) and a T2 Damage control. EM: 84.0625% Exp: 74.5% Kin: 76.09375% Therm: 79.28125% I can't figure out any formula that draws these numbers. I don't have the stats without the damage control but from memory, the EM was 82.5% with just that active. Is there some kind of hard cap or something? My EM should be 95% with BS5 and a 50% active resist mod. No? TY for any input.
Kharanid	Posted - 2008.04.25 10:31:00 - [2] 63% base EM resist means you take 37% of the EM damage dealt to you. An active t1 hardener will reduce the damage you take by 50%, 37/2 = 18,5% added resist. I think this is how it works, but not 100% sure. 63% base resist + 18,5% active hardener = 81,5%
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.04.25 10:32:00 - [3] Edited by: Akita T on 25/04/2008 10:32:12 Armor EM resists were slightly lowered (from base 60% to base 50%), alongside the same for shield EX resists in a recent patch. Also, whenever you add a second hardener of any kind (or any additional ones) to a certain resist, their effectiveness decreases. For a more in-depth explanation, see my sig (click on the "2"). EDIT: Linkage 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Ioci Gallente Ioci Exploration	Posted - 2008.04.25 10:38:00 - [4] Ok, that makes sense. It may have been 81.5, not 82.5%. So the higher the natural resist, the lower the effect of the active hardener. I am pondering resist rigs to make a super tank but based on this, the squeeze out effect would render them meaningless. Thanks
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.04.25 10:38:00 - [5] Edited by: Akita T on 25/04/2008 10:40:19 Added numbers/examples in above edit The reason why you don't see the EXACT same numbers on the fiting screen is because active hardeners, when turned off, they still grant a bonus (1% with no armor compensation, 3% with L1, 6% with L2, up to 15% with L5). When docked, the "off" bonus gets displayed in the fiting screen. Launch, activate hardeners, showinfo ship, and you'll see the numbers I posted. 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Jin Entres Malevolent Intervention Reavers.	Posted - 2008.04.25 10:47:00 - [6] Originally by: Ioci Ok, that makes sense. It may have been 81.5, not 82.5%. So the higher the natural resist, the lower the effect of the active hardener. I am pondering resist rigs to make a super tank but based on this, the squeeze out effect would render them meaningless. Thanks Incorrect. Stacking penalty will reduce the effectiveness of resistance modules but they will always reduce incoming damage by their effective percentage. For example: 60% resistances 100 damage -> 40 comes through 70% resistances 100 damage -> 30 comes through = 33.3% less damage received for 10% resistances or another one: 85% resistances 100 damage -> 15 comes through 87% resistances 100 damage -> 13 comes through = ~15.4% less damage received for 2% resistances The great thing about the resistance bonus is that it does not get a stacking penalty with modules so it does what it says and reduces damage by that amount. It is therefore easier to get higher resistances on such a ship than on another ship where you must use additional modules which do stack together. --- CEO
Ioci Gallente Ioci Exploration	Posted - 2008.04.25 10:47:00 - [7] Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 25/04/2008 10:40:19 Added numbers/examples in above edit The reason why you don't see the EXACT same numbers on the fiting screen is because active hardeners, when turned off, they still grant a bonus (1% with no armor compensation, 3% with L1, 6% with L2, up to 15% with L5). When docked, the "off" bonus gets displayed in the fiting screen. Launch, activate hardeners, showinfo ship, and you'll see the numbers I posted. Abby has 8 lows, so yep. You could still make a serious tank. 2 x 4 T2 active hardeners and Therm, Kin and Explosive rigs. I know about the duplicate diminish. I wasn't seeing the 50% of remainder part. The Problem with my 2 x 4 and 3 rigs is I have no repair. It still might make more sense to ditch the Damage control for a 2nd hardener on thermal or something.
Ioci Gallente Ioci Exploration	Posted - 2008.04.25 10:51:00 - [8] Originally by: Jin Entres Originally by: Ioci Ok, that makes sense. It may have been 81.5, not 82.5%. So the higher the natural resist, the lower the effect of the active hardener. I am pondering resist rigs to make a super tank but based on this, the squeeze out effect would render them meaningless. Thanks Incorrect. Stacking penalty will reduce the effectiveness of resistance modules but they will always reduce incoming damage by their effective percentage. For example: 60% resistances 100 damage -> 40 comes through 70% resistances 100 damage -> 30 comes through = 33.3% less damage received for 10% resistances or another one: 85% resistances 100 damage -> 15 comes through 87% resistances 100 damage -> 13 comes through = ~15.4% less damage received for 2% resistances The great thing about the resistance bonus is that it does not get a stacking penalty with modules so it does what it says and reduces damage by that amount. It is therefore easier to get higher resistances on such a ship than on another ship where you must use additional modules which do stack together. It's easy to see the glory of them. I get that. It also explains the rapid minimal damage preference people strive for. It cripples the resist factor.
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum	Posted - 2008.04.25 11:08:00 - [9] Originally by: Ioci So the higher the natural resist, the lower the effect of the active hardener. No, that's not really true and I want to clarify that as a lot of people seem to be mislead in the same way. What you are thinking of is just an effect of how we measure things with percentages. You are right in one respect, that the percentage you see you resistance increase by is lower - but in all cases, adding a 50% hardener will reduce the damage you take by 50% (stacking penalties ignored). Whether the game displays this as 10% -> 55%, or 96% -> 98%, in all cases a hit that would have done 200 damage to you before will do 100 damage to you now, whether you got the "45% increase" or the "2% increase". Quote: Abby has 8 lows, so yep. You could still make a serious tank. 2 x 4 T2 active hardeners and Therm, Kin and Explosive rigs. First up, the Abaddon only has 7 lows (though an 8th would be ridiculously good, probably overpowering), which will limit your tank possibilities slightly. Secondly, resistance rigs are generally a bad choice as they stack with hardeners. If you are going for an active tank, Nanobot Accelerators and Aux Nano Pumps would probably give you more sustained tanking capability; for passive buffers, Trimarks would give you better EHP.
Gotrek Gurnisson Minmatar	Posted - 2008.04.25 12:24:00 - [10] Edited by: Gotrek Gurnisson on 25/04/2008 12:24:50 It is easier to explain the effect hardeners if you consider ship VULNERABILITY - and not your total resist level. Each hardener added reduces your vulnerability by the stated amount. E.g. A ship with zero resists with one active hardener gets 50% resist to one damage type. However a ship with zero resists and TWO hardeners gets 75% resists to one damage type. This is because the first hardener reduces ship vulnerability from 100% to 50%. The second hardener applies its 50% modifier to the remaining vulnerability: 1 Hardener Vulnerability = 100% * 0.5 = 50% 2 Hardener Vulnerability = 100% * 0.5 * 0.5 = 25% 3 Hardener Vulnerability = 100% * 0.5 * 0.5 * 0.5 = 12.5% Ship vulnerability to damage = (100% of incoming damage - Damage absorbed due to effective resistance level) So: Effective Resistance Level = 100% - Remaining Ship Vulnerability I always find it easier to think in terms of ship vulnerability, rather than resistance level - as it is easier for me to work out the diminishing effect of adding more hardeners.

Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2008.04.25 17:08:00 - [11] Originally by: Gartel Reiman Quote: Abby has 8 lows, so yep. You could still make a serious tank. 2 x 4 T2 active hardeners and Therm, Kin and Explosive rigs. First up, the Abaddon only has 7 lows (though an 8th would be ridiculously good, probably overpowering), which will limit your tank possibilities slightly. /signed WTB Abaddon Navy Issue __________________________________
Stuart Price Caldari Black Water.	Posted - 2008.04.25 17:16:00 - [12] If you're ratting or doing a mission, you can easily active tank an Abaddon to take the damage. One each of t2 large and medium reppers, a few rat specific hardeners and cap mods until you can permarun at least the large repper and guns. Preferably everything. CCC rigs are best for this. For pvp, monster platetank is the way to go. It's fairly easy to get over 30k armour with high resists on an abaddon using trimark rigs. "I got soul but I'm not a soldier"
Freya Dawn Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2008.04.25 20:35:00 - [13] It would seem there are some smart Abbie tankers here, so here's the million dollar question: If you wanted to devote all your lows to tanking, what would be your preferred configuration (without using faction or named gear)? -- Freya Dawn --
Kumas DeSauj The White Star Consortium Tenth Legion	Posted - 2008.04.25 21:00:00 - [14] PVE mish tanking - 3x heatsink2, damage control2, 2x specific hardeners, LAR2 rigs: 2x ccc, 1x rep qty rig (name escapes me atm) - with exception to some missions, it's way better to kill everything before they can even shoot at you. PVP "primary" tank - damage control2, LAR2, 5x 1600mm rolled T plates rigs: mix of rep qty + rep speed - if you're primaried, you'll either die really quickly (enemy bs fleet) or you might live for a longer while (enemy mixed-bc/cruiser fleet). this way, if they nos or neut you, it still won't hurt your EHP. and since you'll probably be webbed for the hell of it, all that extra mass isn't gonna make much of a difference.
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2008.04.25 21:03:00 - [15] Originally by: Freya Dawn It would seem there are some smart Abbie tankers here, so here's the million dollar question: If you wanted to devote all your lows to tanking, what would be your preferred configuration (without using faction or named gear)? My Abaddon tank would be: 1x EANM II 1x Kinetic II 1x Thermal II 1x Explosive II 1x DCU II 2x LAR II 4x Cap Recharger II 8x Dual Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I 3x CCC rigs It permaruns with Standard L and my current skills/implants.
Stuart Price Caldari Black Water.	Posted - 2008.04.25 21:24:00 - [16] Originally by: Freya Dawn It would seem there are some smart Abbie tankers here, so here's the million dollar question: If you wanted to devote all your lows to tanking, what would be your preferred configuration (without using faction or named gear)? For missions: 1 x Large Armor Rep II 1 x Medium Armor Rep II 3 x Rat specific hardeners 1 x Cap Power Relay 1 x Heat Sink II With 3 CCC rigs and 4 Cap Recharger II's in the meds this will permarun with 8 megapulses firing scorch. Using hobgoblins you get around 700 dps and can tank between 750-800 dps forever. Pretty damn shiny. For pvp: 1 x Damage Control II 2 x 1600mm Plate 1 x Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 3 x Heat Sink II With 3 trimarks you should have over 32k armour and be spewing around 900 dps with faction multifreqs from Megapulse II's. Stick a cap booster, a couple of ECCM's and either a disruptor or a sensor booster in the meds and you're good to go. Massive damage, massive buffer and really, really hard to jam.
Ioci Gallente Ioci Exploration	Posted - 2008.04.26 08:42:00 - [17] Thanks all. My dps sucks. Bad. So when I fleet for PvP I like to go in first and play the bait. Even with my 75%-85% set up, I feel squishy. I didn't know if it was me or if this is something everyone suffers. Yes, usually there are 6 locks on me. Because I am pretty sure I am going to get popped, I don't rig the ships but maybe a few 1600 plates will be a good thing. I do get the damage given, damage taken part but it becomes a question of slot investment. I have seen Killmails where Abby's took 65K damage so they have brutal tanking ability. Of course, key word. I saw the 'killmail'. I was hoping to make it more than a suicide can. Maybe that's what is was meant to be..
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum	Posted - 2008.04.26 11:25:00 - [18] If you're acting bait then sure, you get to use all the slots. The actual tactic you go with depends on who you fly with (or rather, what they fly in). If you're in a battleship gang that will be warping to you with remote reps, I would without a shadow of a doubt go for a passive buffer tank. Especially if (as you say) you'll be warping in to multiple hostiles, a standard active tank will have trouble keeping up with the damage, so a buffer is probably the way to go anyway. In that case you'd definitely want at least two 1600mm RT plates, an EANM and a DC, leaving three slots to play around with. Obviously Trimark rigs make this better, but you can certainly get by without them (and I wouldn't blame you for the first time or so, until you get a feel for whether the extra HP would save you or not; better to learn by losing an unrigged ship than a rigged one!). Having had a fiddle in EFT, there are pretty much two options: tri-hardeners, or two more plates and an EANM. The 4 x 1600mm, 2 x EANM, 1 x DC has the highest effective hit points, so if you know you aren't going to have any incoming remote reps and have to rely solely on buffer, then that's how to maximise your EHP. Alternatively, while the tri-hardener setup has slightly lower EHP in EFT (around 5% less), its higher resistances will make any remote repairing you receive more effective. Also, if you break things down by damage types, the tri-hardener setup has a better EHP against thermal, kinetic and explosive damage types individually, at the price of being 40% worse against EM damage. So if the enemy doesn't have Amarr ships themselves, the tri-hardener setup is clearly superior. I'd probably go with it in general, in the absence of specific intelligence about your enemy. And beg your Raven, Geddon, Mega and Domi pilots to stick a remote rep (or two!) in their high slots. You'll be amazed at how much even one or two unbonused remote reps will extend your tanking ability.


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