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soltys
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Posted - 2003.06.13 14:51:00 -
[1]
Updated:
- "rapid firing" gives only 5% bonus no matter the level it's trained up to. this is new bug, that shown up around 107x patch. it was reported here as well...
- still (:/) RoF is truncated to integer in show info->attributes, before fitting to ship
- still (:/) bid values under market type are shown only for orders physically placed at player's current station, completely ignoring requested market range or even orders having player's station within range but placed elsewhere
I also know oddities regarding some moduels, but I'll post them after full check of current stats (from build 1077, in case they were fixed).
Edited by: soltys on 13/06/2003 18:39:15
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Damage stats: click version v1.1.02 retail. |
Pyroe
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Posted - 2003.06.13 18:27:00 -
[2]
Although it's been talked about and posted many times the skill of gunnery is still unanswered by some knowledgable person on the CCP team.
Forgive me if it has been answered but I have yet to see it.
The description is 5% to Turret Speed.
What speed?
It is NOT rate of fire as it does not apply or is broken.
It is NOT tracking speed as this does not apply iether.
So please tell me what SPEED are we talking about.
I am approaching lvl 5 and have yet to see this skill affect any weapon attribute.
Rapid firing does effect rate of fire and seems to be correct.
Motion prediction does effect tracking speed and the numbers appear correct.
Tom B or anyone can simply answer these type of questions.
It's almost as bad as the .35% we get robbed of on our in station sales. How hard is it to give a very simple answer?
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soltys
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Posted - 2003.06.13 18:38:00 -
[3]
Gunnery affects rate of fire. I tested it. And now I'm sure of it, as my testserver character has just trained up to lvl4.
"Rapid fire" after 107x gives only 5% bonus no matter the level.
Also don't forget about RoF truncation. Most of weapons that have non-integer RoF and it all looks very strange after fitting.
Edited by: soltys on 13/06/2003 18:39:55
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Damage stats: click version v1.1.02 retail. |
Pyroe
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Posted - 2003.06.13 19:42:00 -
[4]
I'm sure you have tested it as have I.
I have lvl 4 gunnery and lvl 3 rapid fire ATM.
The only bonus im getting is 15%. That's lvl 3 of something wouldn't you say?
So am I getting lvl 3 gunnery instead of lvl 4?
Or am I getting lvl 3 rapid fire and ZERO for gunnery?
Or perhaps im getting 5% for lvl 3 Rapid fire as you say and 2.5% for each level of gunnery.
Maybe it's ship or race related. I'm minmatar and flying a Rifter or a Stabber.
Until I hear from someone from CCP I won't bother with speculation on what exactly gunnery does. The math on the outcome speaks for itself.
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soltys
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Posted - 2003.06.13 19:43:00 -
[5]
What gun are you testing with ?
please check with rifter and some small projectlie gun, tell me then your gunnery, rapid , gun, and rof after fitting. let's check. and no hydraulic or other gyrostabilizers :)
Edited by: soltys on 13/06/2003 19:46:38
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Damage stats: click version v1.1.02 retail. |
Pyroe
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Posted - 2003.06.13 20:06:00 -
[6]
With no devices installed at all a 250 light artilery stock is 4 seconds ROF.
After installing and undocking it is exactly 3.42 seconds.
That's 4 seconds x .95 x .95 x .95 exactly.
5% per level times 3 lvl's of rapid fire.
Server just went down or I would try some more guns. Not sure whats hangin around the hanger.
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soltys
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Posted - 2003.06.13 20:51:00 -
[7]
no
250MM is stock 4.5 RoF, not 4 (and agian - RoF is TRUNCATED down to integer number, before fitting to ship).
so after 1077 patch, that bugged "rapid firing"
.....................|-gunnery
.....................|.......|-- rapid
3.42 == 4.5*0.8*0.95
before patch you would have:
3.06 == 4.5*0.8*0.85
stock RoF are as follow, for small projectiles:
125: 1.5
150: 1.6
200: 1.8
250: 4.5
280: 15
150 scout: 1.44
dual 150 scout: 3.6
200 scout: 12
135 scout: 1.28 (but not sure atm about this one)
check calculations i.e. with 280 (gun that has integer rof), if you don't believe me
Edited by: soltys on 14/06/2003 08:26:47
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Damage stats: click version v1.1.02 retail. |
Pyroe
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Posted - 2003.06.13 21:06:00 -
[8]
Now you certainly have me confused and once again I will not accept any numbers unless from a DEV ie; TomB.
*looks under keyboard. Nope not there but he does appear every now and then.
Your numbers seem to work. Yes they do but you can also achieve the end result via many different formula's.
One curiousity I have with your numbers. You apply .8 as a multiplier and I assume its for the gunnery skill you believe is working. Why is this skill applied as 80% and not 95%x95%x95%x95% ?
I for one have never ever seen an explanation as to how these work. Like many I have ASSUMED and tried various ways to realize the outcome of the end numbers.
Some are applied on top of each other while others are cleary a whole number.
If the numbers on the guns are truncated I want them to show the dam numbers. If it's 4.5 seconds and not 4 seconds I want it clearly shown. Why the hell not?
Yes I have found guns in the past that reflect this. Almost the same example you have. The 125 or 150 rail is where I noticed it but thought the 250 artillery project was a straight 4 seconds.
TomB are you there? A simple answer to this lies in your hands.
Oh but alas it would be far to simple I guess to just cleary answer things.*sarcasm* *cough*.35%.
Turret Speed is the question and how it applies.
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soltys
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Posted - 2003.06.13 21:24:00 -
[9]
Also note, that stack RoFs, despite being non-integer, are not "ugly". It took me some time to figure out the formula, but it works perfectly.
TomB ?
please comment
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Damage stats: click version v1.1.02 retail. |
Pyroe
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Posted - 2003.06.13 21:34:00 -
[10]
Yea TomB as in dev or some other entity. He has posted on other threads relating to attributes on devices such as the MWD.
Straight answers from the horses mouth.
Like I said many times this has been discussed and never once has it been made clear what some of these skills actually do.
The description on gunnery does not say ROFbonus like rapidfire does.
It clearly says Turret speed bonus.
And motion prediction says Tracking speed multiplier.
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soltys
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Posted - 2003.06.13 21:39:00 -
[11]
yea, I know he's Dev. Just wonder if he comments it. But I'm pretty sure my calculations are ok., Well we'll see (hopefully)
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Damage stats: click version v1.1.02 retail. |
Griskin Thor
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Posted - 2003.06.14 05:48:00 -
[12]
soltys, it's fairly well known and easily to prove that skills total their bonuses before being applied, whereas modules multiply their values together.
Ex. 1: Navigation 4 gives a 20% bonus to ship speed (4 levels at 5% each, 4x5=20. Note, this is from memory, I'm not sure if Nav is 2% or 5% or what, it's just for illustration).
Ex. 2: A pre-patch Afterburner grants a 25% bonus to speed per module. 4 modules grant a 244% bonus to ship speed (1.25 x 1.25 x 1.25 x 1.25 = 2.441...)
Combined, those two would grant (1.2x2.44) a 293% increase in ship speed.
Modules that modify stats all work the same, AFAIK, and all skills that grant a percentage per level work the same.
Griskin Thor
Chief Operations Officer
>Lightwave Enterprises<
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"Oh yeah? Well, back in my day we had to mine omber with our teeth! And walk back to the station to sell it. Up the gravity well. Both ways!" |
soltys
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Posted - 2003.06.14 08:23:00 -
[13]
@Griskin Thor
I'm not sure what's your point... Did I say they didn't stack this way ?
I proved that a) gunnery grants bonus to RoF b) RoF of weapons is truncated to integer before fitting one to ship c) rapid fire is broken starting with some patch 107x
In case you didn't, please read whole thread...
Edited by: soltys on 14/06/2003 08:24:22
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Damage stats: click version v1.1.02 retail. |
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