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Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.26 16:50:00 - [1] Originally by: Pilgrippa Just tossing an idea out there: What if fitting an AB made you immune to webs? Might be too powerful, maybe something in the middle: If only someone had come up with a system for doing that... Hmmmm Vote Goumindong for CSM
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.29 18:33:00 - [2] Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld Nanoships just can't orbit around BSes with ease, they will get hit enough and/or don't have cap (due to neuts) and BSes can cyno in capitals just as easily. Nanogangs don't just "hang around", and they certainly will not engage against 1:3 odds. Waiting is not fighting? Roaming alliance ops are very rare. 40+ nanogangs are only there if they have specific targets, the usual nanogang is a lot smaller and are generally not the mandatory alliance level ops(neither are defense gangs) They don't orbit, they will hang around and they do not engage against 1:3 odds, they pick off straglers to attempt to get them to engage. E.G. Nano-gang encounters BS gang. Nano-gang burns out of range to either approx 100-140km or 250km+. Orbits at this range[crusier guns have a hard time hitting due to range, BS guns due to tracking], anyone that is targeted can leave. If the BS gang attempts to get someone close to get a warp in the nano-gang blob that one either too close to warp to or far enough away to not be immediately engaged by forces on grid[I.E. without warping]. Then burn away and repeat the process. Nano-gangs that are large almost never have a specific purpose[since you can't shoot POS well with them]. They are almost always fast moving general pvp gangs and they get large because people like to fly in them and they suffer comparatively little pain in terms of effectiveness compared to other gangs from increasing the number of people. Vote Goumindong for CSM
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.30 15:01:00 - [3] Originally by: Ortos Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 30/04/2008 14:09:22 Originally by: Everyone Dies This I've seen many vagabonds double webbed but still going 1000m/s, how is that not overpowered? It's not overpowered at all, simply because that Vagabond pilot have spent maaaaaaaaany billion isk in implants and fitting. QFT, if you got a full snake set and youre putting yourself in the line of combat. You deserve that advantage. So if i put a full slave set in my head, i deserve that kind of advantage? It should grant me so many hit points you can always just disengage and jump through, even if you aren't at a gate? Vote Goumindong for CSM
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.30 17:18:00 - [4] Originally by: Matrixcvd Originally by: Goumindong So if i put a full slave set in my head, i deserve that kind of advantage? It should grant me so many hit points you can always just disengage and jump through, even if you aren't at a gate? There is an advantage, and you are just being useless. If there is someone you can't kill in this game its because you don't understand how to do it... plenty of tactics and most ships and MWD back to the gate or MWD away provided low scan res rapier... plenty of tactics, you refuse to accept them Relying on your opponents being stupid is not a valid tactic. Vote Goumindong for CSM
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.30 18:38:00 - [5] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Everyone Dies This I've seen many vagabonds double webbed but still going 1000m/s, how is that not overpowered? That's a lie, you've seen no such thing because it isn't possible - even if they did spend billions of ISK. -Liang Its not possible if they were stationary when webbed. Its very possible if not. Vote Goumindong for CSM
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.30 19:56:00 - [6] Originally by: Cautet Very disengenous comment there. You could say by the same token any speed you wanted due to fact that as the ship is decelerating it hasn't yet reached it's new lower webbed speed. No it is not. Because speed is not some absolute. How fast you get to these speeds is important. Inertia is a big reason why nano-ships are overpowered. When they do get webbed they are going so fast they just drift out of web range. Quote: This is not the nano age, it's the age of caps and supercaps. Why not moan about those instead? These anti-nano arguments are soo boring. Plenty of whining is going on about caps and super-caps. Quote: Nanoships are a counter to blobs. No, they are not. They have never been a counter to blobs. They are simply a tool to blob better. Vote Goumindong for CSM
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.30 20:19:00 - [7] How are nano-ships "the counter to blobs"? What stops you from blobbing up with nano ships? What exactly is the condition of blobbing and why does it occur? If you answer these questions you will understand why you are wrong. Vote Goumindong for CSM
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.01 02:10:00 - [8] Edited by: Goumindong on 01/05/2008 02:14:05 Originally by: Gamesguy Says the guy who brings a rapid deployment gang mod to a capital fight, and flies around in a triple inertia stabbed harbinger(no nanos, no OD) in fleet shooting battlecruisers all day instead of light support. Rapid deployment is a fine for leading support. And inertia stabs are fine in moving gangs[it certainly was not a fleet shot] where warping fast is important[and with the range of pulse lasers, combat re-location is less important than leaving the field] Originally by: "NightmareX" So can you tell me how i managed to kill a nano Zealot in my Sniper Muninn on sisi?. I bet you can't, because you don't have the IQ or skills to do it, simple. You killed a nano zealot on sisi with a Sniper Muninn? Oh **, stop the presses, did you hear that? He killed a single Zealot on SISI! Quote:** When i fight on sisi, i fight like it should have been on TQ, because i like it when it's as realistic as TQ. You may, but that isn't the important factor now is it? Vote Goumindong for CSM
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.01 18:02:00 - [9] Originally by: NightmareX Who cares, the point is that i managed to kill him. That's the whole point. How often do you see a Sniper Muninn kill a Nano Zealot? Or are you just admitting that i'm actually much much better than you on killing things?. You are an endless well of comedy. You killed a Nano Zealot on sisi with an arty Muninn and thinks this this proves anything. I Killed a Gistii Crow on TQ solo in a harbinger. Clearly that means I am the better at killing things than you and that you must bow down before my awesome might and declare that I am right. Right? Vote Goumindong for CSM
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.01 18:15:00 - [10] Originally by: Liang Nuren I killed and podded a snaked Gistii crow not so long ago with my Arty Muninn. I can't believe he reduced his transversal to 0 to me. -Liang Well then, there you have it, Arty Muninns must be overpowered and we must always think Liang Nuren is right Vote Goumindong for CSM
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.03 03:02:00 - [11] They don't have to go that fast to break the balance between weapon systems.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.03 05:11:00 - [12] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Goumindong They don't have to go that fast to break the balance between weapon systems. I was merely pointing out that he was (at best) exaggerating in the extreme. -Liang When I lived in providence/Domain most of the nano-ships were going 5-7km/s and were flying in gangs. Granted, this was ages ago. But the only reason the ships would have slown down is because people are using more gang friendly versions. The fact of the matter is that going this much faster as is currently on TQ is broken. I mean, take a look at the Vagabond. In October of 06, a month before the Revelation changes which boosted the overdrive[Originally +speed -agility], nanofiber[Originally +20m/s max speed], and inertial stabilizer[Originally so useless no one can even remember what it did], the vagabond was the most purchased HAC in the game. It was also the most expensive HAC in the game running around 250-300m apiece[this was before invention]. The standard fit did not even use speed mods except an MWD but it was still so good to command such a price. The speeds and agilities of ships which are not fit with speed mods has not gone anywhere and in some cases has even dropped[armor tanking rigs] and invention has seen the introduction of t2 overdrives and nanofibers en masse. But the ability to tank ships hasn't much changed, rigs were a singular large change, but you still cannot take a small ship and give it as much DPS and Tank as a larger ship that is not fitting damage mods and tanking mods. You can almost get either tank or gank, but not both. A Harbinger with 3 damage mods does not do as much damage as a Armageddon with 0 damage mods. And the Harbinger fully tanked out barely will cap the EHP of a Geddon with only a t2 DC. Yet, i can take a harbinger, stick speed and agility mods on it and it will be better than any tanked omen could ever be in every way. I can do the same on a Geddon for the Harbinger, sticking speed mods on it and being more agile with more hit points and more DPS than the Harb. These examples are on the large end, but I use them to show the point. The speed mods on the cruisers now obsoletes frigates and especially all frigates that are not fitting speed mods. Especially once you get into ships that have been balanced around ships being tanked instead of going for speed it becomes a huge problem. And its a problem you cannot just slam speed mods onto the short range ships to fix. Since every time you do that you extend the advantage of the longer range ships. The current state of speed is completely and utterly broken, it pushes new players out of the game, it pushes less experienced players out of the game and it pushes people who don't want to fly super-fast ships out of the game.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.03 05:13:00 - [13] Originally by: Liang Nuren Well, no. Ishtars and such are going to be harder to kill, but a MWDing battleship is faster than a capped out MWD-less nano cruiser. -Liang Kinda. They will have an absolute speed advantage but it will take them 23+ seconds to get to 3/4 speed which is going to be about 700m/s, which is about the speed the nano-ship will be reaching without an MWD in about 5-6 seconds. Agility matters
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.03 07:21:00 - [14] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Goumindong The current state of speed is completely and utterly broken, it pushes new players out of the game, it pushes less experienced players out of the game and it pushes people who don't want to fly super-fast ships out of the game. You just almost seem to making the argument that the very existence of the Vagabond itself (which is quite possibly the most balanced of nano cruisers) is going to kill Eve. Oh noes, Eve is DEAD if we don't nerf the Vaga out of existence!!!!! .... ?! -Liang Not in the slightest. I am simply explaining the strength of speed and the problems it causes[at least, starting to]. The vagabond is the least of the problems of nano-ships.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.03 08:27:00 - [15] Originally by: Everyone Dies how is the Vagabond the most balanced of nano-hacs? a nano-vagabond is probably the fastest of all the nano-hacs without even needing a snake set. Because it has to slow down and its effective operating range is much closer than most others.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.05 02:18:00 - [16] Edited by: Goumindong on 05/05/2008 02:27:51 Edited by: Goumindong on 05/05/2008 02:20:27 Originally by: Dianeces here are a number of other gang tactics which can render nanos useless: Inty swarms, ECM-heavy gangs, and remote-repping BS gangs come to mind immediately But not kill them.[Also, ECM heavy gangs and inty swarms are actually much more vulnerable to fast gangs than they are to heavy gangs. This is due to a variety of reasons including the high sensor strengths of recons and the low DPS and EHP of ewar ships as well as the reliance on range which allows the fast gang to more easily cover the distance to attack the offenders.(not to mention the ewar that the nano-gang can bring with it). And remote repping gangs are actually quite vulnerable to nano-gangs since they are immobile and so vulnerable to ECM. And since you can't kill them then unless you are going to be reinforcing a pos its always better to be fast. edit: i cannot believe that you actually just claimed that fast HAC/recon gangs were vulnerable to inties and ECM heavy gangs. Aha ha ha ha ha ha ha Vote Goumindong for CSM
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.05 04:52:00 - [17] Originally by: Dianeces Edited by: Dianeces on 05/05/2008 03:28:15 Originally by: Goumindong edit: i cannot believe that you actually just claimed that fast HAC/recon gangs were vulnerable to inties and ECM heavy gangs. Aha ha ha ha ha ha ha What do you fit on your intys? Cap rechargers? Just sayin'. Edit: Furthermore, Goum troll spotted. Its not that you don't put webs on them its that the HAC/recon gang is going to ***the out of the inties. E.G. my Zealot is as fast as a DPS taranis and does 2.5 times as much DPS at 20 times the range with 5 times the EHP. On average each HAC/Recon will have 10 times as much EHP and 3 times the DPS as each HAC and will do that with 40km webs, neuts, damps to completely neutralize half the inties in the game or jamming strength to perma-jam an inty with a single jammer. All in all it means that you're gonna get raped if you bring an inty swarm against a HAC gang. If you could kill HAC gangs with inty swarms people would fly them all the time**. There is a reason they do not. Vote Goumindong for CSM

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