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Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.04.28 21:19:00 - [31] Originally by: Seragon If you want to see more people in low sec then you should do something about it. And asking CCP to change the game isn't it. People won't go to low sec because the risks are too high with no current way to manage them. It's those risks, not the rewards that are why people don't go. Pirates have overfished their ponds and dried up all the stocks. If you really want more people to come to low sec, make it safer for them. Start a large corp / alliance structure with a solid NRDS policy that polices low sec. Form up a player run Concord to provide security and more people will come. If all you want is more people to shoot, leave low sec and go to 0.0. Nerfing high sec will never change the popularity of low sec. and there is no way to manage the risks in 0.0 either if people really wanted to go to lowsec they would have done number 2 already
Tai Paktu Mortis Incarnatus	Posted - 2008.04.28 21:34:00 - [32] Edited by: Tai Paktu on 28/04/2008 21:36:32 Originally by: Seragon If all you want is more people to shoot... No. What we want is a more diverse and lively community to exist in low sec. TBH, there are rewards to be found in low sec. With the use of maybe a jump freighter, a large faction POS and some carebears based in both low sec and high sec, one could actually do quite well in a low sec region through the market. Who knows, you migh even be able to work something out with the local pies. Originally by: Seragon Start a large corp / alliance structure with a solid NRDS policy that polices low sec. Form up a player run Concord to provide security and more people will come. Anti-pies have tried similiar endeavours. The fact that they're the only thing around to shoot means they have a rough time. Most of us have short attention spans and would rather kill you once today then 20 times if you set up shop. And besides, who's going to trust a bunch of s who say, "hai you s, we don't wanna kill you anymoar. We're gonna fight other pirates (already happens) and let you guyz mine in peace, kthnxbai?" Originally by: Searong People won't go to low sec because they're scared. Fixed that for you. Low sec is not significantly different than any other part of the game. It's about cost and benefit. In high sec, the cost is that you can be live peacefully and horde ISK, be war dec'd and die or be suicide ganked and die. In low sec, you can still die in all the above ways. You can also live in relative peace, no less so than if you were at war with some dec corp. But there's no huge benefits for bears to live there. 0.0 can be extremely costly but extremely rewarding. TL;DR - Low sec isn't as easily profitable as high sec or 0.0. Ice being removed from high sec means bears either lose their research POS, go to low sec and fight for the ice or buy it from others who step up and fight. Either of the last two ways, we get our fight and are happy. ______ http://eve-files.com/sig/TaiPaktu/sig3.PNG
ViolenTUK Gallente Vindicated Exiles	Posted - 2008.04.28 22:02:00 - [33] Originally by: angient The whole point of moving ice to low sec is that Ice is essential to fueling pos's. And without ice carebears couldnt fuel thier pos's and would be FORCED to go to low sec. Or not have a pos. Thats right thats all that would happen. Little or no Player owned stations in empire. You wouldn't force them into low sec at all they simply wouldnt keep one. www.eve-players.com
Deikanis	Posted - 2008.04.28 22:35:00 - [34] Originally by: Seragon If you want to see more people in low sec then you should do something about it. And asking CCP to change the game isn't it. People won't go to low sec because the risks are too high with no current way to manage them. It's those risks, not the rewards that are why people don't go. Pirates have overfished their ponds and dried up all the stocks. If you really want more people to come to low sec, make it safer for them. Start a large corp / alliance structure with a solid NRDS policy that polices low sec. Form up a player run Concord to provide security and more people will come. If all you want is more people to shoot, leave low sec and go to 0.0. Nerfing high sec will never change the popularity of low sec. Agreed. Let's not forget about pirates bragging (movies and threads) all over the net about killing noobs in low sec, then saying "Hey noob you shouldn't be here. I actually had done you a favor noob.". Now no one goes there, only skilled pilots who want some fun . But this is another thread where the pirate don't want to leave it's nest, so let's blame the game as it is. What's the problem in poping people in 0.0? As for ice belts only in low sec, it seems a bad idea because there will be a major lag in those systems.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.04.29 04:47:00 - [35] Edited by: Marcus TheMartin on 29/04/2008 04:47:50 Originally by: tiller Originally by: Harley Gonzo Somethinlg of GREAT vaue should be in lowsec. there is already, MY CHIN fixed Originally by: Deikanis As for ice belts only in low sec, it seems a bad idea because there will be a major lag in those systems. Highsec ice belts don't lag what makes lowsec belts any different
MilowFV Echo Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.04.29 06:00:00 - [36] I though moving all ice to low sec would be perfect you have all the fighting you want when 0.0 alliance came up to mining ice, but then what most pirates seem to want is solo player from highsec coming down. Anyway this is one idea I would support I am sure my corp would love to mining ice in low sec (well I am lying there but thats ok). Anyway I cannt see any 0.0 alliance liking the ice being moved to low sec and I cannt imagine a high sec players liking the idea much either. Though it is an idea that would move alot more players into low sec.
ViolenTUK Gallente Vindicated Exiles	Posted - 2008.04.29 08:08:00 - [37] Originally by: MilowFV Though it is an idea that would move alot more players into low sec. No it wouldn't. You would not move people to low sec by moving the ice fields. High sec miners would just mine somthing else. They would unanchor their pos at a similar time. www.eve-players.com
Harley Gonzo	Posted - 2008.04.29 08:13:00 - [38] Originally by: ViolenTUK Originally by: angient The whole point of moving ice to low sec is that Ice is essential to fueling pos's. And without ice carebears couldnt fuel thier pos's and would be FORCED to go to low sec. Or not have a pos. Thats right thats all that would happen. Little or no Player owned stations in empire. You wouldn't force them into low sec at all they simply wouldnt keep one. Thats a good thing tho. Only profitable pos's will remain, less pos's = less traffic = less lag. And with the amount of money pos's make people, I really doubt all of highsec and 0.0 are going to just scrap their pos's to avoid lowsec. EVE economics practically run on pos's. Right now being in lowsec isn't a necessary part of the game. The need to be in lowsec is missing. Putting something exclusive and essential to the market into local is exactly the kind of boost it needs. People need to stop looking at this like its a pirate looking for more targets. Lowsec is a different part of the game WITH ITS OWN SET OF RULES. A set of rules that, when the whiners get over it, are really fun, and more balanced (thus the whiners). If people can get over the fact that getting blown up is not the end of the world, lowsec can be the most entertaining places in the game. But it sucks to be the only people around. Lowsec and the lowsec rules would be waay more fun with more traffic.
ViolenTUK Gallente Vindicated Exiles	Posted - 2008.04.29 08:43:00 - [39] Originally by: Harley Gonzo I don't think you grasp how important POS's are to the game. Empire pos's arenÆt as important as many make out. They are particularly useful for tech 1 blueprint material research but manufacture is possible and profitable without ME research although due to the huge deflation of virtually all ships and modules over the past few years the profit margin is very thin. You can invent through a pos mobile lab but there are many slots available in npc stations it isnÆt really necessary and this is the case with copying also. Profitable manufacturing is mainly through the invention of copied blueprint which can be accomplished without the need of a pos and this has become increasingly common. Eve economics certainly arenÆt run on pos's. Originally by: Harley Gonzo I really doubt all of highsec and 0.0 are going to just scrap their pos's to avoid lowsec. Referring to empire they just might do that. Many players really do hate low sec that much. Even if eve economics ran on pos's it isnÆt their duty to continue fulfilling their industrial role. Faced with the option of mining in low security many players would simply look at a different aspect of eve and turn to something else. www.eve-players.com
Harley Gonzo	Posted - 2008.04.29 09:05:00 - [40] Edited by: Harley Gonzo on 29/04/2008 09:08:00 Right, but I'm not saying just take ice out of highsec. What about the 0.0 pos's? They'd need to go to lowsec too. The ENTIRETY of eve would have to go to lowsec (0.1 to 0.4) systems TO RUN THEIR POS. Or buy from someone who does. Either way, it develops lowsec. Everyone who's been suggesting things to fix lowsec have always seemed to be 'get the highsec peoples down to lowsec'. Noone thought to bring the semi-good players UP from 0.0.
Macedon Jankolas MAFIA	Posted - 2008.04.29 10:57:00 - [41] That could be a very good thing to do. One of many. test tets test
jimmyjam Gallente Wise Guys Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2008.04.29 12:20:00 - [42] Originally by: angient Originally by: Commander Thrawn Edited by: Commander Thrawn on 26/04/2008 05:40:04 low sec is fine as it is now tbh. Low sec is completely dead. The only things you come across these days is just other roaming pirate groups, and the ocassional catalyst in a belt. Lo sec is not dead you just have to travel a little bit.
Privavarian Gallente 21st Raiders Regiment TWISTED INFECTION	Posted - 2008.04.29 14:45:00 - [43] I think Ice should be completely removed from Highsec. Also some ice types, the more common ones should only be aquired in lowsec and not in 0.0 so an alliance is actually forced to operate in 2 areas. and also boosts up the trade value of ice. this also makes lowsec alliances valuable to 0.0 alliances in order of trade ect. this will boost the eveconomy some bit. Your friendly pirate in a system near you priv If the Enemy is in range.. So are you.
Kelmor Malbeth	Posted - 2008.04.29 22:05:00 - [44] Edited by: Kelmor Malbeth on 29/04/2008 22:07:18 Edited by: Kelmor Malbeth on 29/04/2008 22:05:42 posted idea elsewhere: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=759657&page=1#20
Faife Noctiscion Twilight Trade Cartel	Posted - 2008.04.29 22:34:00 - [45] Edited by: Faife on 29/04/2008 22:34:35 So just throwing this out there, let's just remove ice fields from 0.0, low sec, AND high sec. Ice prices will go through the roof!
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.04.29 23:22:00 - [46] Originally by: Faife Edited by: Faife on 29/04/2008 22:34:35 So just throwing this out there, let's just remove ice fields from 0.0, low sec, AND high sec. Ice prices will go through the roof! stops hotdropping cap ship****gotry as well best idea ever
Vigilant Gallente Vigilant's Vigilante's	Posted - 2008.04.30 02:13:00 - [47] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: Faife Edited by: Faife on 29/04/2008 22:34:35 So just throwing this out there, let's just remove ice fields from 0.0, low sec, AND high sec. Ice prices will go through the roof! stops hotdropping cap ship****gotry as well best idea ever that is funny... Back to OP and his thoughts. Everyone summed it up for ya. Revoving ice from High Sec. really only accomplishes two things : 1) More targers for 's 2) Makes Macro / Farmers re think new strategies for making ISK and selling it. It will make it really hard on a lot of Alliances also, if you give it some thought. Since they buy a vast majority of there ice products via buy orders in High Sec. A carebear will not goto Low Sec. to mine ice for his tower or for profit, if he has to dodge pirates every two seconds. And considering this is C&P, ice mining is a mainstay for new players, believer it not. Easy to make money, low risk, can be done semi-AFK (when Goon's are not rampaging) and its damm easy to tank 0.5 and up rats. Even if you moved it all to low sec. all the alliance would just camp a belt and guard there guys or a bunch of "farmers" who are mining for them Really, if you wanted this... CCP would have to make some huge changes to the whole idea of POS's ownership in High Security. Considering Material Eff. slots are no where to found in Empire (unless you want to wait 10 plus days average). Fly Safe Vigilant
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.04.30 02:19:00 - [48] Originally by: Vigilant Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: Faife Edited by: Faife on 29/04/2008 22:34:35 So just throwing this out there, let's just remove ice fields from 0.0, low sec, AND high sec. Ice prices will go through the roof! stops hotdropping cap ship****gotry as well best idea ever that is funny... Back to OP and his thoughts. Everyone summed it up for ya. Revoving ice from High Sec. really only accomplishes two things : 1) More targers for 's 2) Makes Macro / Farmers re think new strategies for making ISK and selling it. It will make it really hard on a lot of Alliances also, if you give it some thought. Since they buy a vast majority of there ice products via buy orders in High Sec. A carebear will not goto Low Sec. to mine ice for his tower or for profit, if he has to dodge pirates every two seconds. And considering this is C&P, ice mining is a mainstay for new players, believer it not. Easy to make money, low risk, can be done semi-AFK (when Goon's are not rampaging) and its damm easy to tank 0.5 and up rats. Even if you moved it all to low sec. all the alliance would just camp a belt and guard there guys or a bunch of "farmers" who are mining for them Really, if you wanted this... CCP would have to make some huge changes to the whole idea of POS's ownership in High Security. Considering Material Eff. slots are no where to found in Empire (unless you want to wait 10 plus days average). Fly Safe Vigilant So cutting off a method for bots to make isk is bad because they will find new ways? Curing AIDS is bad because new diseases will mutate beyond the cure? Removing Ice from highsec will get the bots on low ends get people into lowsec People in lowsec good
Vigilant Gallente Vigilant's Vigilante's	Posted - 2008.04.30 02:30:00 - [49] Marcus, The macro / farmer population is not going anywhere. First they mined normal ore and cashed in on that. Then they found ice belts. Ice is easier cause you have to mine it 23/7 with 10 plus mackinaws to make one roid pop. Then just move to the next...non stop supply. CCP can only solve this problem, but they are un-willing cause every macro / farmer represents 15 bucks a month. Your comparison to AIDs of all things is pretty silly at best. You want to cure the macro / farmer popualtion, removing ice from high sec. and 0.0 will not help. What it will do is cause more of the cloaked ravens in 0.0 that people constantly b*tch about. Or they will change back to regular ore. Yes I fully agree, low sec. needs something to make it more attractive. Cause at this time, most people just ask themselves this "Why risk my ship / pod for a few more isk per pull /npc kill ? " Fly Safe Vigilant
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.04.30 02:36:00 - [50] But they aren't mining the ice I fail to see what the problem is
Harley Gonzo	Posted - 2008.05.02 05:52:00 - [51] Originally by: Vigilant Revoving ice from High Sec. really only accomplishes two things : 1) More targers for 's 2) Makes Macro / Farmers re think new strategies for making ISK and selling it. More targets for pirates only means theres more people in lowsec. More people in lowsec is what we're aiming for. And making things hard for farmers is a good thing. Who cares if they're not going anywhere, it still affects them negatively. Originally by: Vigilant It will make it really hard on a lot of Alliances also, if you give it some thought. Since they buy a vast majority of there ice products via buy orders in High Sec. A carebear will not goto Low Sec. to mine ice for his tower or for profit, if he has to dodge pirates every two seconds. And considering this is C&P, ice mining is a mainstay for new players, believer it not. Easy to make money, low risk, can be done semi-AFK (when Goon's are not rampaging) and its damm easy to tank 0.5 and up rats. Even if you moved it all to low sec. all the alliance would just camp a belt and guard there guys or a bunch of "farmers" who are mining for them Really, if you wanted this... CCP would have to make some huge changes to the whole idea of POS's ownership in High Security. Considering Material Eff. slots are no where to found in Empire (unless you want to wait 10 plus days average). Fly Safe Vigilant Thats the point. I'm not trying to turn lowsec into the nubfest that is highsec. Mining in lowsec isn't supposed to be easy. An alliance SHOULD camp the belt that their miners are mining in. And a carebear WILL go to lowsec, if it means they can run their pos. Something as valuable as POS fuel should not be so easy to obtain. At least not afkable. You've really got things backwards, EVE is a good game because of the fact that it isn't easy all the time. If stuff keeps getting nerfed in favor of the carebears all we'll be left with is a world of warcraft pve server.
Kami Nodachi Gallente Lobstosity	Posted - 2008.05.02 06:41:00 - [52] Whereas you pirates would rather the game get changed so it is easier and easier to target people anywhere, and force people to jump through hoops that are hoop-camped by pirates, and where you have to be at your pc 23/7 to make sure you don't get obliterated.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.05.02 06:46:00 - [53] Originally by: Kami Nodachi Whereas you pirates would rather the game get changed so it is easier and easier to target people anywhere, and force people to jump through hoops that are hoop-camped by pirates, and where you have to be at your pc 23/7 to make sure you don't get obliterated. Being at my pc to play a computer game!? wtf ccp I quit
Kami Nodachi Gallente Lobstosity	Posted - 2008.05.02 07:02:00 - [54] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: Kami Nodachi Whereas you pirates would rather the game get changed so it is easier and easier to target people anywhere, and force people to jump through hoops that are hoop-camped by pirates, and where you have to be at your pc 23/7 to make sure you don't get obliterated. Being at my pc to play a computer game!? wtf ccp I quit Umm, what? Learn to read please.
Deikanis	Posted - 2008.05.02 11:20:00 - [55] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Edited by: Marcus TheMartin on 29/04/2008 04:47:50 Originally by: tiller Originally by: Harley Gonzo Somethinlg of GREAT vaue should be in lowsec. there is already, MY CHIN fixed Originally by: Deikanis As for ice belts only in low sec, it seems a bad idea because there will be a major lag in those systems. Highsec ice belts don't lag what makes lowsec belts any different As i said, ice belts ONLY in low sec could cause lag. That was what this thread was about i believe. In high sec you don't see lag, because there's many of them in 0.0 also. Just imagine the few low sec places as the ones with ice belts. Everyone (corps included) would go there. Big mining ops with heavy escorts would roam those systems, and that means lot of lag.
Harley Gonzo	Posted - 2008.05.02 12:11:00 - [56] Edited by: Harley Gonzo on 02/05/2008 12:14:54 Edited by: Harley Gonzo on 02/05/2008 12:14:26 Originally by: Kami Nodachi Whereas you pirates would rather the game get changed so it is easier and easier to target people anywhere, and force people to jump through hoops that are hoop-camped by pirates, and where you have to be at your pc 23/7 to make sure you don't get obliterated. Yea, cuz pirates whine about the game and get stuff nerfed in their favor ALL the time... It's not like pirates have the advantage, in any way. You do realize that being -10 means, ANYONE CAN SHOOT YOU FOR FREE. BUT, if you want to shoot someone else, they get an extra 350 dps bonus from sentry guns/station guns. We also can't enter highsec, so carebears can always just LEAVE. I think the reason people hate pirates so much is because its such a slap in the face to get killed by one. It's like your friend beating you at street fighter with the handicap all the way up. This game is based on the principle of RISK vs REWARD. Why should people be able to make billions at a pos if they don't ever have to risk anything.
Fifth Horseman	Posted - 2008.05.02 12:21:00 - [57] Just remove ice belts, from high, low and 0.0 sec. How about that eh? I bet you can squeeze Eve players to just about ANYWHERE if you're prepared to think outside the box enough.
Kami Nodachi Gallente Lobstosity	Posted - 2008.05.02 12:27:00 - [58] Originally by: Harley Gonzo Edited by: Harley Gonzo on 02/05/2008 12:14:54 Edited by: Harley Gonzo on 02/05/2008 12:14:26 Originally by: Kami Nodachi Whereas you pirates would rather the game get changed so it is easier and easier to target people anywhere, and force people to jump through hoops that are hoop-camped by pirates, and where you have to be at your pc 23/7 to make sure you don't get obliterated. Yea, cuz pirates whine about the game and get stuff nerfed in their favor ALL the time... It's not like pirates have the advantage, in any way. You do realize that being -10 means, ANYONE CAN SHOOT YOU FOR FREE. BUT, if you want to shoot someone else, they get an extra 350 dps bonus from sentry guns/station guns. We also can't enter highsec, so carebears can always just LEAVE. I think the reason people hate pirates so much is because its such a slap in the face to get killed by one. It's like your friend beating you at street fighter with the handicap all the way up. This game is based on the principle of RISK vs REWARD. Why should people be able to make billions at a pos if they don't ever have to risk anything. Can you not dec them and blow it up?
Fifth Horseman	Posted - 2008.05.02 12:28:00 - [59] You er.... You do know that highsec Ice is absolute crap compared to lowsec ice, right? This er... MYTHICAL! reward that people seem to think lowsec needs... it er... Well, it already exists. It's just er..... if you try to get the reward, you get -10 blobbed until you realise the rewards are valueless if it costs you more in ships than you get from it compared to the same deal in hisec. Yeah, are we getting it yet? Or are we STILL believeing that somehow lowsec, as much a sandbox as any place else, has been utterly degenerated by the players, not by CCP. CCP did NOT completely destroy lowsec. The players did. CCP made it BETTER. Much better exploration, L5 agents, Much better Ice. And STILL they don't go. But why not? Like I just explained, I have to say it twice per post, because we're not big on readers or thinkers, you will be killed, or forced into dock for hours at a time in lowsec, for the vast majority of people. Just because you can think of one lowsec system with a 25 man strong anti-pie gang, doesn't make your opinion valid. Your opinion would be valid if you couldn't undock as a -10 because you would get yours handed to you within 3 minutes, despite being very AWESOME! indeed. You have no valid on lowsec rewards if your agenda is more fish to hunt. Because the more CCP lure into your deathcamps, the less they will come. So, third time for the cheap seats at the back, RISK is the problem, not REWARDS.
Samacia	Posted - 2008.05.02 14:06:00 - [60] Edited by: Samacia on 02/05/2008 14:12:03 Originally by: Apoctasy actually just remove ice fields from highsec. This would have the desired effect your looking for, but, it'll never happen. Are you kidding me?!!? ICE is the life of 0.0 alliances. Without ice they would have no POS. Pos shutdowns and territory takeovers would ensure like crazy. Plus piracy in lowsec would abound when alliances try to ICE mine in lowsec. The alliances would have no way to control the lowsec territory. There are no bubbles they can use. They would take sec hits trying to keep non-pirate non-alliance members out of there ice systems in low-sec. Hilarity would ensue! The Top 10 Alliances would go ballistic on the forums. CCP wonÆt go for that.

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