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Mia Fortela
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Posted - 2008.04.26 05:42:00 -
[1]
Hello, this is my first post so please be nice :P. I've finally trained cruiser 5. And I'm fairly close to start getting into a recon ship. However, looking at the market has got me slightly worried, why does the lachesis only cost 35-40mil, when a huginn and curse come close to 80m? Does it just cost less to make? or does it share a similar fate to the Eris?
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Hannobaal
Gallente
Shadow Forces Inc.
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Posted - 2008.04.26 06:11:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Hannobaal on 26/04/2008 06:11:40
There is nothing wrong with the Lachesis compared the Arazu. I'd say both are underpowered now since the Remote Sensor Damp changes in Trinity, but the Lachesis was allready this cheap before the changes.
Basically, people prefer cloaking. And the Lachesis doesn't have the same huge advantage over its force recon variant as the Curse does.
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AKULA UrQuan
Caldari
STK Scientific
Black-Out
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Posted - 2008.04.26 06:11:00 -
[3]
Sensor damps got nerfed hard. Gallente recons wheren't boosted to compensate.
Minmatar recons are "must have" ships for null space these days due to everything being nanoed to hell and back.
That's pretty much it in a nutshell.
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Radcjk
Caldari
Dark Star LTD
Atrocitas
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Posted - 2008.04.26 06:46:00 -
[4]
Regardles of the sensor damp nerf, Gallente Recons are still very viable ships if used correctly. Admittedly, they're not as useful as they were sense before the patch, but its not as though they've lost every trick they have.
While the rapier or hugnin were recommended, gallente recons compliment these ships near perfectly. The ability to warp disrupt from incredible range compared to the average ship has been sorely over looked in place of sensor damps. Even with out expensive faction mods an Arazu / Lachesis with a warp disrupter II gets some decent tackle range.
Its still a fairly cap hungry ship, and while damps were nerfed theyre not totally useless. Being able to lengthen the time the target takes to lock on is still a small advantage, as is being able to negate his lock on range. It isnt the cap hungry, guaranteed ECM substitute that it used to be, but with decent skills you should be able to more or less negate their lock range down to the extreme range of your tackling ability (dependent on the ship class and its own sensor boosters. Battleships and recons tend to have much longer lock ranges than say, cruisers or frigates)
Also, should you chose to go this route, theyre not the solo ships they used to be. Id advise to fly them in gangs, especially with rapiers/ hugnins / hyenas.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
Sex Panthers
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Posted - 2008.04.26 08:46:00 -
[5]
The only good thing about the Lach is it's DPS compared to the Rook. Anything the Lach/Arazu can do (shutting down targets) the Falcon and Rook can do twice as good from 4x the distance.
Bellum Eternus
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I |
Mia Fortela
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Posted - 2008.04.26 08:59:00 -
[6]
Mixed feelings on it I guess. I'll play around with one on the test server when I get the chance too. I'll mainly be using it for mission busting with my friend in a Cerberus.
Was thinking something like this for a setup.
Lows:
1x MARII
2x EANMII
Mids:
1x 10mn ABII
1x Medium Cap Injector
1x Warp Disruptor II
4x Phased Muons (w/ Targeting Range)
Highs:
3x heavy launcher I
2x 250mm railgun II (spike)
Drones:
3x Hammerhead II
2x Hobgoblin II
Rigs:
2x Ewar Range rigs.
The idea would be to hold a target down while me and the Cerb shoots missles at the target, without it being able to target back. I've never fit one before though, how does this compare to your fit?
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Dheorl
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.04.26 09:11:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Mia Fortela
Mixed feelings on it I guess. I'll play around with one on the test server when I get the chance too. I'll mainly be using it for mission busting with my friend in a Cerberus.
Was thinking something like this for a setup.
Lows:
1x MARII
2x EANMII
Mids:
1x 10mn ABII
1x Medium Cap Injector
1x Warp Disruptor II
4x Phased Muons (w/ Targeting Range)
Highs:
3x heavy launcher I
2x 250mm railgun II (spike)
Drones:
3x Hammerhead II
2x Hobgoblin II
Rigs:
2x Ewar Range rigs.
The idea would be to hold a target down while me and the Cerb shoots missles at the target, without it being able to target back. I've never fit one before though, how does this compare to your fit?
Unless your cerb buddy has a web any ship you engage will just burn towards you and waste you. Basically you either need a web and pray you can damp them to under 10km or you need a MWD.
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Tenpun M
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Posted - 2008.04.26 09:28:00 -
[8]
Truth be told the Gallente recons have an identity crisis. Nerfed damps make them no where near as effective as a caldari recon for shutting down targets, and while they can be moderately useful as a scrambling platform in roaming gangs - at gates you'd almost always want a dictor instead.
That's not to say they are useless, a cyno man is always useful, and just because it's less effective than some other options doesn't mean it's completely inefective.
Basically, if it's the only recon race you're specced for - fly it! They aren't terrible by any means.
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Bronson Hughes
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Posted - 2008.04.26 13:06:00 -
[9]
The biggest problem with Gallente recons isn't that they don't do their jobs well, it's that other ships do their jobs better. Fly them if you can, they're by no means bad ships, you just won't get the performance you will out of a Falcon/Rook or a 'Dictor/'Hictor.
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"I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
TZeer
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2008.04.26 14:39:00 -
[10]
Arazy/Lachesis can be good, if you use it right.
Damps got hit hard on the nerfbat, but they are still viable.
If you use T1 rigs on it your dampening strength will be at 58,57% compared to 46,86% on a nonspecced ship.
Doesnt look like much, but say you have a ship with 189km range:
Arazu/Lachesis: 2 damps will reduce the lockrange down to 38km
Arazu/Lachesis: 1 damp wil reduce the lockrange down to 78km
Nonspecced ship: 2 damps will reduce the lockrange down to 59km
Nonspecced ship: 1 damp will reduce the lockrange down to 100km
Now it all depends how you will use it. Do you wanna use both bonuses, scramrange and dampstrength?
More damps will make you able to keep more hostiles out of the fight. While fitting scrams will make you keep hostiles put, but have less damps to cover your ass.
Scramrange with recon lvl 5 will give you 48km on your T2 warp disruptors, overload and you have 57km.
Not many ships out there fit 2 sensorboosters, if you look away from sniping. So most ships cap out at around 150 km lockrange. Wich one damp will cut down to 62km.
If you are running around with a closerange gang, damps wont help them much, but they will help you if you are there to keep a target from warping out, stay at range, scram, and damp on potential damagedealers that might force you to dissengage.
If you fight at range you can ditch the scrams and fit 5 damps instead, since last midslot you should have a mwd. That will make you able to keep atleast 2 maybe 3 ships from firing on your teammates.
AND, if you are so lucky that you have a EOS commandship pilot in gang... your damp strength can get even better. The damps will be well over 60% effectiveness. Might get close to 70%.... Havent done the math and cant be arsed.
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Larkonis Trassler
Neo Spartans
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Posted - 2008.04.26 14:47:00 -
[11]
Lach used to be the last word in Lowsec gatecamps.
With remote reps on it and remote sensor boosters you could happily lock down blockade runners and hearing your lach pilot say '10 points' on TS was just pure sex.
Now we have HICs. Oh well.
Lach/Huginn, Arazu/Rapier combo is still good for locking down solo ships at range while you wait for the cavalry or dealing with Nanoships but other than that they're not much use atm due to the damp nurf.
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General Coochie
The Bastards
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Posted - 2008.04.26 15:28:00 -
[12]
Edited by: General Coochie on 26/04/2008 15:32:51
Edited by: General Coochie on 26/04/2008 15:31:40
Originally by: Mia Fortela
Mixed feelings on it I guess. I'll play around with one on the test server when I get the chance too. I'll mainly be using it for mission busting with my friend in a Cerberus.
Was thinking something like this for a setup.
Lows:
1x MARII
2x EANMII
Mids:
1x 10mn ABII
1x Medium Cap Injector
1x Warp Disruptor II
4x Phased Muons (w/ Targeting Range)
Highs:
3x heavy launcher I
2x 250mm railgun II (spike)
Drones:
3x Hammerhead II
2x Hobgoblin II
Rigs:
2x Ewar Range rigs.
The idea would be to hold a target down while me and the Cerb shoots missles at the target, without it being able to target back. I've never fit one before though, how does this compare to your fit?
That will work very well for mission busting. But don't take that fit to PvP outside of deadspace. The only real threat you have in a mission is drones and that the target is faster then you, so he can AB away from your range. A medium armor rep doesn't stand as long against 5 heavy drones as a 800/1600mm plate do. I like having a OD II in the lows, that way canes or HACs can't AB away from you.
So in lows I got, plate, OD II, cap relay (or hardener.)
If you are gonna use it exclusively for mission busting you might wanna consider investing in a faction disruptor. I think a true sansha is about 50mill, with recon V and ability to overheat you can tackle at 67km.
Also I prefer being cap stable without cap booster, its a pain carrying cap boosters about, and with really good skills you only need a cap recharger II to be stable, otherwise downgrade ure rails and fit a large cap battery II, will give u lots of cap.
The Vigil and The Caracal (duo PvP movie) |
4rc4ng3L
Gallente
C R Y O
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Posted - 2008.04.28 11:09:00 -
[13]
Edited by: 4rc4ng3L on 28/04/2008 11:10:29
I use my Arazu solo and in small gangs all the time, i love it. Damp nerf hasnt effected how i use mine cos it was always a case of 'picking the right targets'
I use 3x damps, SB and scram.... orbit at 38km and blast away with faction Thorium charges, does fairly decent dps for a recon provided you got gunnery skills trained up well.
Its all about picking your targets... arazu is anything but useless.
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- To Jumanji, or not to Jumanji...... - |
arbalesttom
Caldari
Glauxian Brothers
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Posted - 2008.04.28 11:27:00 -
[14]
Originally by: 4rc4ng3L
Edited by: 4rc4ng3L on 28/04/2008 11:10:29
I use my Arazu solo and in small gangs all the time, i love it. Damp nerf hasnt effected how i use mine cos it was always a case of 'picking the right targets'
I use 3x damps, SB and scram.... orbit at 38km and blast away with faction Thorium charges, does fairly decent dps for a recon provided you got gunnery skills trained up well.
Its all about picking your targets... arazu is anything but useless.
Except the fact hic's can do it better.
***Sig***
Originally by: Cpt Branko
That is a JoJo, a forum troll used by Amarr whiners.
If real men fly amarr, what does a nbermensch fly then? ---> Gallente ^(>_<)^ |
Riho
Gallente
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.04.28 12:20:00 -
[15]
i have a lach atm and im not even flying it into combat.... it waiting for the gallente recon boost :) (what will probably never come)
its bit subpar compared to rook or falcon.... even arazu is better.
i can fly amarr and minni ones aswell now (amarr cruiser 5 finished today :P) and ill probably never fly a lach if it doesnt get abit of a boost (RSD strength boost on the ship.. not the mod)
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Yes... this is my main.
Extreme Troll Slayer...
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General Coochie
The Bastards
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Posted - 2008.04.28 17:20:00 -
[16]
Originally by: 4rc4ng3L
Edited by: 4rc4ng3L on 28/04/2008 11:10:29
I use my Arazu solo and in small gangs all the time, i love it. Damp nerf hasnt effected how i use mine cos it was always a case of 'picking the right targets'
I use 3x damps, SB and scram.... orbit at 38km and blast away with faction Thorium charges, does fairly decent dps for a recon provided you got gunnery skills trained up well.
Its all about picking your targets... arazu is anything but useless.
Don't you notice the difference of having both range and lock time efficiently at the same time? Making your drones a lot easier to pick off then they used to be.
I also think a 100mill ship should have a wider selection of targets, then cruisers and badly tanked BCs.
Lachesis actually put out a fair amount of dps, but lach is such an easy target for some ships, and nasty vs others. Anyone with a clue in local will either kill you or avoid you =)
The Vigil and The Caracal (duo PvP movie) |
Ivan Kinsikor
Amarr
Void Engineers
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Posted - 2008.04.28 18:49:00 -
[17]
The big problem with damps is their abysmal optimal range. I keep pushing for the fall off and optimal to be flipped which would make damps FAR more useful.
A buff to gallente recons would be nice too :x
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*****es don't know 'bout my nano'd Titan
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