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Having difficulties in a Raven (L4 Missions)

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Kivin San	Posted - 2008.04.26 08:25:00 - [1] Hello, I'm having difficulties completing most Level 4 missions in my Raven. Admittedly, my cumulative skill points aren't all that hot, but I don't really see any short term opportunity for improvement there. Here's my skill sheet: http://ineve.net/skills/bio.php?charID=MTMxNzk0NjE5 My fittings are: 6x XT-9000 (or something) Cruise Launchers 1x Drone Range Mod 1x X-L C5L Shield Booster 4x Racial Hardeners (Kin, Kin, Therm, Therm) or (Kin, Exp, Exp, Cap Booster II) or (EM, EM, Therm, Kin) depending on mission, Sometimes a Tech1 Shield Boost Amp instead of the fourth hardener. 1x Lg Cap Booster (800s) 3x BCU II 1x Named PDU 2x Capacitor Control Circuits 1x Thermic Shield Rig People in my rookie corp mostly agree that I'm just suffering too much damage, and it isn't really an issue of skills of setup. I'd like a second opinion. I'm going to strip off the thermic rig and put on a third CCC and see if that helps, some. Oh, and I do check eveinfo and eve-survival. Even still, usually one/two pockets of BS-sized rats is enough to overwhelm my tank and force me into Booster charges. Due to my poor missile skills, it takes between 11 and 17 salvos of cruise to kill a 430,000ISK battleship. What say you all, how can I improve my survivability and efficiency? ArtieLange > 10 Print "Estimated server start time is" now +25 minutes. 20 Goto 10
xenoin proeliator deus	Posted - 2008.04.26 08:40:00 - [2] Edited by: xenoin on 26/04/2008 08:41:39 I have no problems with Lvl 4's with my setup and assuming you watch out for triggers and manage your aggro you should be fine too. My setup is as follows - 6x Limos Cruise X-large shield booster II Ionic Field Accelerator (shield boost amp) 4x Mission specific hardeners 2x PDU II 1x DCU II 2x BCU II I do not fit rigs on my raven yet but still manage fine, if you setup your ship roughly like this replacing some T2 with best named, depending on your skills, you should be fine. EDIT - Kite the spawns on missions aswell if you are finding the aggro too much.
EbilC	Posted - 2008.04.26 08:54:00 - [3] well 1st off drop that drone range mod asap and fit heavy nos, after the nos nerf their effectiveness is reduced, however they will do wonders for your cap when it starts getting low. And get rid of the cap boosters and swap one of the BCU's to another PDU, remember the stacking bonus, if you are having troubles tanking you always want more PDU than BCU. Remember on a raven you want as much t2 as possible, t2 hardeners make a world of difference, i had a hard time solo in lvl 4's till I got them. Also it may be too late but you will be better off with 2xccc rigs rather than resist rigs. Finally if you dont need to fit a CPU upgrade you are probabaly doing something wrong, Raven CPU is tight on a good fit. clive
Des Garcons	Posted - 2008.04.26 08:57:00 - [4] Edited by: Des Garcons on 26/04/2008 08:58:38 First thing you needa do is get energy grids upgrades to IV this will let you use PDUIIs and Cap RechargersIIs and give you better cap regen time from the skill itself. Get rid of the cap booster and use a cap recharger instead since your using CCCs it will just lower it even more. Then get your energy management to IV, more cap gives you more cap/sec regen. Also switch a bcu for another pdu, theres not much point having 3 bcu for missions if your having tank problems. You should be able to run you shield booster alot longer. Should only take you a few days to train those to IV then you should notice a huge difference in your cap regen.
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.26 09:34:00 - [5] A cap booster setup really only works well on setups that kill NPCs very fast (like a gank Abaddon). A cruise raven does not kill NPCs very fast, so I would not use a cap booster (tbh I would not burden myself with using a cruise Raven at all but that is another matter and at your SP you don't have other options anyway prolly). So basically heed the advice given above and you should be fine. You want ME for the CSM! There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion
MuffinsRevenger EmpiresMod Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.26 10:45:00 - [6] I allways liked sustainability and beeing able to randomly go afk or forget about eve, so i use a cap stable setup: 6 cruise 2 w/e 1 XL-Cl5 (think t2 would work to) 3 t2/cn hardners 2 cap recharger2's 2 BCU 2 Flux coils 3 CCC's Permaruns and tanks most missions fine, and incase the dps gets to great you can just rid yourself of the scrambler and get out to recharge cap, so unless you screw up massivly it should be just fine
delta phi Minmatar	Posted - 2008.04.26 11:25:00 - [7] 6x arbi luanchers 1400mm prtotype howitzer drone aug 3xccc 3 invul t2 large t2 shield boost 2 t2 other shield hardeners 3 bcu t2 2xpdu t2 5x med t2 drones 2x med rep drones to fix ur drones. go into the mission head toward a moon or station at top speed watch agro manage ur drones kite the rats at 50+ km.take out scrammers and webbers first then get jammers and bc then the bs shoot first, shoot second, shoot some more.shoot anyone asking stupid f***ing questions.
Interstellar Artois	Posted - 2008.04.26 13:30:00 - [8] Go for something like this: 6x Cruise launchers 2x Nos 1x XL Booster 1x Shield boost amp 4x racial hardeners 2x BCU 3x PDU Aim for T2 except the launchers - arbies fit the bill better. When your skills/modules/confidence get better you can start swapping things round for a more aggressive setup.
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2008.04.26 14:27:00 - [9] Train for something like this: 6x Tech II Cruise 2x whatever 1x XL or L Shield Booster II 1x Shield Boost Amplifier II 4x Tech II Hardeners 2x BCU II 2x Cap Flux Coil II 1x DCU II 3x CCC rigs And don't forget the drones! Five Hammerhead IIs really speed things up! ------------ Improvize. Adapt. Overcome.
Hanneshannes	Posted - 2008.04.26 16:14:00 - [10] Edited by: Hanneshannes on 26/04/2008 16:24:44 Edited by: Hanneshannes on 26/04/2008 16:21:30 Edited by: Hanneshannes on 26/04/2008 16:14:02 I use this atm: [Raven, LVL 4] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Power Diagnostic System II Damage Control II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Photon Scattering Field II X-Large Clarity Ward Booster I 5a Prototype Shield Support I Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile Drone Link Augmentor I Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 It's a bit more skill intensive I'd say and not easy on the wallet, just replace w/e you can't fit/afford with named/T2 and use 2 PDS/2 BCS if your tank is suffering. Replace the hardeners with whatever you need for the mission, same goes for ammo. By the way, it is a myth that NOS help against NPCs. I was told and I have found myself. My cap never goes below 50% usually and I only use the NOS because it appears to lower an NPC's chance of using their "special ability" (Like that uber shield boost on the Venegance boss rat)

Spud Gunn	Posted - 2008.04.26 17:17:00 - [11] Really, you should be looking at having most - if not all - of your fitting as T2 by the time you're running a battleship. Your tank is the most important thing when you're just starting a higher level of missions - slightly sub-optimal DPS will mean missions take a little longer to clear; sub-optimal tank will get you killed (or at least require lots of warpouts). Cap booster on missions? No, just no. You do not want to be reliant on not lagging and not running out of cargo to survive. If you don't have the cap skills to sustain your shield booster, you need to ditch some of the BCUs and fit cap mods instead. Ditching the shield rig for another CCC should help that a lot. And a shield boost amp shouldn't be a "sometimes" thing on an active shield tank.
MaidMarion The SMITE Brotherhood	Posted - 2008.04.26 17:31:00 - [12] Originally by: Kivin San Hello, I'm having difficulties completing most Level 4 missions in my Raven. Admittedly, my cumulative skill points aren't all that hot, but I don't really see any short term opportunity for improvement there. What say you all, how can I improve my survivability and efficiency? Sadly, there is no quick fix for inadequate skills. You can fit as much stuff as you want and you will still be struggling through lv4s. Lv4s require both tank skills to survive and gank skills in order to reduce damage as fast as possible so you can survive. My suggestion - go back to lv3s and drake etc, train at least cruise missiles4, missile support to 3-4, cap skills to 5, shield skills to 4-5, BS to at least lv3, then fit a proper Raven and slaughter lv4s. To many people rush into lv4s.
Hanneshannes	Posted - 2008.04.26 18:12:00 - [13] Originally by: MaidMarion Originally by: Kivin San Hello, I'm having difficulties completing most Level 4 missions in my Raven. Admittedly, my cumulative skill points aren't all that hot, but I don't really see any short term opportunity for improvement there. What say you all, how can I improve my survivability and efficiency? Sadly, there is no quick fix for inadequate skills. You can fit as much stuff as you want and you will still be struggling through lv4s. Lv4s require both tank skills to survive and gank skills in order to reduce damage as fast as possible so you can survive. My suggestion - go back to lv3s and drake etc, train at least cruise missiles4, missile support to 3-4, cap skills to 5, shield skills to 4-5, BS to at least lv3, then fit a proper Raven and slaughter lv4s. To many people rush into lv4s. Yep, I did the same thing. I can fit T2 shield booster and shield boost amp, it juust doesnt fit because I dont have AWUs yet xD
MaidMarion The SMITE Brotherhood	Posted - 2008.04.26 19:14:00 - [14] AWU5 and BS5 are so worth training.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.04.26 20:17:00 - [15] Originally by: MaidMarion AWU5 and BS5 are so worth training. AWU5 for what? Most Raven (mission) setups have plenty powergrid to spare. Actually, CPU seems to be the biggest issue when I try to fit mine... not sure what I would be doing with the extra grid But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Kivin San	Posted - 2008.04.26 20:52:00 - [16] Originally by: MuffinsRevenger I allways liked sustainability and beeing able to randomly go afk or forget about eve, so i use a cap stable setup: 6 cruise 2 w/e 1 XL-Cl5 (think t2 would work to) 3 t2/cn hardners 2 cap recharger2's 2 BCU 2 Flux coils 3 CCC's Permaruns and tanks most missions fine, and incase the dps gets to great you can just rid yourself of the scrambler and get out to recharge cap, so unless you screw up massivly it should be just fine According to ETF, this doesn't perma-run, even with Full Level Vs. ArtieLange > 10 Print "Estimated server start time is" now +25 minutes. 20 Goto 10
Kivin San	Posted - 2008.04.26 21:01:00 - [17] After looking at all your posts, speaking to friends, and trying to find the common denominator, here's what I came up with: 6x Named Cruise 1x E500 Nosferatu 1x Drone Range (or x2 E500, however I don't recall two nos ever doing me much good in missions before. Don't rats cap run dry after one nos cycle?) 1x XL Booster 3x Racial Hardener 2x Cap Recharger II 3x PDU (or Flux Coil...... maybe.) 2x BCU And for the person that said I'm doing something wrong if I don't need a cpu booster, it's called a named/tier1 setup
Khwalik Ghetto Kings	Posted - 2008.04.26 22:45:00 - [18] personally i wouldn't use nos on a mission raven keep the drone augmentor and fit a tractor to grab wrecks maybe. nos isn't theat big a help with cap if you are using 3 ccc already. get t2 cap mods though as soon as you can. my 2 isk worth
Kivin San	Posted - 2008.04.26 22:54:00 - [19] Originally by: Khwalik personally i wouldn't use nos on a mission raven keep the drone augmentor and fit a tractor to grab wrecks maybe. nos isn't theat big a help with cap if you are using 3 ccc already. get t2 cap mods though as soon as you can. my 2 isk worth Very close to my own thoughts. I just tested a pair of Hvy Nosferatu on a L4 Blockade, and the juice they were returning to me was ambiguous with the passive cap regen. Not very impressive. For lack of a better idea, I'm leaving one Nos on, and putting the drone augmenter back on as well. T-5 hours til I can use Tech II cap rechargers. I don't think I'll dump the time into T2 PDUs, yet. There comes a certain point where I think more DPS will help me deal with missions more than tank will. I think I'll spend 5d upgrading to T2 XL Shield Booster. That gives me 11% more shield effectiveness. Then I'll spend 5d making the push to T2 Drones. That gives me ~21 more DPS, more than any 5d worth of missile operation skills could. ArtieLange > 10 Print "Estimated server start time is" now +25 minutes. 20 Goto 10
Luka Lavandi Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.04.27 02:14:00 - [20] Originally by: Kivin San Hello, I'm having difficulties ... My fittings are: 3x BCU II it takes between 11 and 17 salvos of cruise to kill a 430,000ISK battleship. efficiency? That is your problem. Rapid launch lvl3 and Warhead upgrades lvl1 - no, sir, that's unexcusable :) According to the number of salvos it looks you have lower dps than a drake, and that's with three bcu's. Tanking: you have quite decent capskills, should only raise Shield Compensation to lvl4 in that field (takes short time). Your latest fit you described and are going to use - not so bad idea, with few modifications possible, but that's a thing of choice and wallet. -------------------------------------------- Just flying to the nearest mall --------------------------------------------

Hanneshannes	Posted - 2008.04.27 09:26:00 - [21] Hm, I'm guessing, you SP are somewhere within 2-3M... Unless you are specced in a raven with that, stay with lvl 3 missions, they can be very profitable and it's harder to lose a drake. You will have to dump time into: Missile Skills Shield Skills Cap Skills Drone Skills Navigation Skills (more optional really) Here goes my skills related to raven (and I'm far from up top there somewhere, about 7.5M SP) Drones V Drone Navigation IV Scout Drone Operation V Drone Interfacing III Gallente Drone Specs III Caldari Drone Specs III Electronics V Long Range Targeting IV Signature Analysis IV Targeting IV Energy Grid Upgrades IV Energy Systems Operation IV Engineering IV Shield Compensation IV Shield Management IV Shield Operation IV Shield Upgrades IV Tactical Shield Manipulation IV Weapon Upgrades IV Cruise Missiles IV Guided Missile Precision IV Missile Bombardement IV Missile Launcher Ops V Missile Projection III Rapid Launch IV Target Nav Prediction IV Warhead Upgrades III Navigation IV Evasive Manouvering IV Warp Drive Ops V Caldari Battleship III I'm still working on missile, shield and cap skills.
Dario Wall Caldari Black Legion Industries	Posted - 2008.04.27 11:18:00 - [22] [Raven, Level 4 Fit] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Capacitor Power Relay II Capacitor Power Relay II Capacitor Power Relay II X-Large Shield Booster II Heat Dissipation Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Cap Recharger II 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Wrath Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Wrath Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Wrath Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Wrath Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Wrath Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Wrath Cruise Missile Drone Link Augmentor I Small Tractor Beam I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Vespa II x5 Hornet II x5 -=-=-=-=-=-=- Been using that for level 4's right now. Can run everything permanently. Sure the shield boost is low due to the CPR's but if you manage the aggro and are paying attention, then it works well enough. So far the only mission I've had trouble with has been Enemies Abound 5/5. For all other missions, just switch hardeners/ammo/drones to match, then once in the mission align and start shooting. If you run in to any scrambling frigates, let your drones handle them.
Princess SinR	Posted - 2008.04.27 12:39:00 - [23] Edited by: Princess SinR on 27/04/2008 12:39:59 I love how ppl post there actually fittings, cn launchers but at the same time fitting a crappy named XL. Or quoteing every single item individually even though 6 items are the same. sounds like noobs with access to lots of isk and eft maybe Kivin lose the thermic rig. also why have u quoted only 4 low slot mods when u have. I would personally suggest Highs 6xcruise (bestnamed or t2) the other 2 slots whatever u want really Meds Large booster (best named or t2) boost amp (t2 but u can get cheap faction if skills put t2 far away) at least 3 racial hardeners, cap recharger (or 4th hardener if u really really need it, I doubt it though) Low 3 bcu 2 pdu rigs 3 CCC and light drones
Hanneshannes	Posted - 2008.04.27 12:59:00 - [24] As I said, the crappy XL named booster is there because the T2 one doesn't fit CPU wise and copy pasting a fitting is faster than typing one up.
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.04.27 16:20:00 - [25] One of the best ways to avoid damage if your skills are low, is to kite the enemies. Even though the raven moves at some piddly 160 m/s, if you keep boating away from the rats, it buys you a whole bunch of extra time to kill the rats before they get to you. Flying a lot of artillery ships now where I need the range to track, I find that an afterburner is usually more than enough for most tanking purposes as rats hardly ever get in range. Oh, and fit cap fluxes instead of CPRs or PDUs if you want to increase your cap stability. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Hanneshannes	Posted - 2008.04.27 20:51:00 - [26] Edited by: Hanneshannes on 27/04/2008 20:52:29 Try 145 m/s. Also, how do you kite guristas, they spew missiles from one end of the galaxy to the other :S
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.04.27 21:06:00 - [27] Originally by: Hanneshannes Edited by: Hanneshannes on 27/04/2008 20:52:29 Try 145 m/s. Also, how do you kite guristas, they spew missiles from one end of the galaxy to the other :S Two kin hardeners and an Invuln. Guristas are easy to tank anyway, you shouldn't need to kite them. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Hanneshannes	Posted - 2008.04.27 21:12:00 - [28] I know :P I was just wondering since guristas seem to be a majority of the caldari missions and ppl say kite them XD
Kivin San	Posted - 2008.04.28 02:07:00 - [29] So a day later, this is what I'm using. I just accidentally aggroed a whole pocket and managed to tank it. 6x Cruise 1x Heavy Nos 1x Drone Range 1x Named XL Booster 3x Racial Hardeners 2x T2 Cap Recharger 2x PDU 3x T2 BCU 250 Second cap recharge. It's very close to being cap stable, even with my poor skills. ArtieLange > 10 Print "Estimated server start time is" now +25 minutes. 20 Goto 10
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.04.28 02:21:00 - [30] i fit my raven with 5 lowslots 6x cruise, tractor/salvager 1x xl booster II, 4x t2 hardons, 1 cap recharger II 2x bcuII, 2x cap power relay II, 1x cap flux II 3x ccc rigs people will whine and ***** about not having a shield boost amp or using cap power relays, but in all honesty its a wee bit of over tank



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