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Chelone Stone Shadow Syndicate	Posted - 2008.04.28 09:25:00 - [1] Looking to get my alt into L3 missions ASAP, figured he could borrow my main's Abaddon. Here's the fitting I came up with, I think it should rock for skillless L3 missioning: 8xDual Modulated Heavy Beam (Microwave / XRay) 1xLIF Afterburner 1xHeavy Electrochemical Cap Booster w/ 800's 2xFleeting Web 2xLarge Accomodation Rep 3xExtruded Heatsink 2xFourier Tracking Enh. 3xCCC Rig Total: 588 CPU, 20382 Grid Could actually run the fitting with Electronics 1, Engineering 0 and no weapon upgrades, though you'd need more as requirement for some modules. Cap booster lets you dual rep if required, otherwise can sit back and casually burn things to ashes. 3xHS 2xTE gives a great gun boost, pumping the Dual Modulated Heavy which are a great deal on fitting for the skillless pilot. Dual fleeting web should eliminate the need for good drone skills in scrambler emergencies. What do you think?
Riho Gallente Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.04.28 09:40:00 - [2] harbinger would be more effective and faster in lvl3s :) ---------------------------------- Yes... this is my main. Extreme Troll Slayer...
Forge Lag	Posted - 2008.04.28 10:18:00 - [3] BS and large guns does not sound nearly as much "skilless" as Engineering 0. You have so much gank on that ship, that most of your time would be spent afterburning (and stopping to hit anything at all) and aligning and.... targetting. It would not be much fun, fighting more against your ship systems than rats in a ship that cannot AFK. Imo fit medium guns (10x the tracking), saves frustration and shaves off days of your tight skill plan. The fit is good, it just does not belong, is not really skilless more like SP-less and most of all will get old fast. You will be flying BS for the rest of your missioning, you might as well enjoy something smaller while you have a chance, the opportunity will not last long.
Chelone Stone Shadow Syndicate	Posted - 2008.04.28 21:42:00 - [4] Harb can do L3 with skills, but I think it would just go up in flames on the hardest L3's with only around 2-3 weeks of non-learning skill training. The point was to get the skilless nub/alt into Abaddon ASAP, and maintain gank ability while preventing ship loss. Cruiser 4 takes me 3 1/2 days, MET 3 is half a day, BS 3 is around a day I think, and that's about it. Named T1 mods don't take much skills, that's another main point to the fitting. Elec1/Eng0 was just an interesting point, you could easily have L3 in each but they aren't technically needed for this fit. Cap Booster + 2 Large Rep seems awesome because it only takes 3 slots for ALL of your tank and cap mods (other than 3xCCC), and gives a respectable tank (for L3) which is there IF YOU NEED IT. I'll be honest - I lost an Abaddon to L3 once - New Frontiers 5/7 before it was changed. That mission was like a L4. I went in like a glass cannon, all gank no tank, and got swarmed and scrammed. With this setup I'd have probably been fine. Med guns don't get the ship boost. I think there's another option to address all your concerns, which would be Apoc with Mega Pulse (nice with range boost), and similar fitting except switch the webs for Tracking Computer + Sensor Booster, and require Drones 5. That's another 5 days of training though, which runs against the "as soon as possible" theme. Or I could switch out the webs for TC+SB on this fitting, whenever I do get Drones 5. A last option might be to figure out if Harb could do it "skillless" with a similar cap-boosted, dual-rep setup with 2 resist mods, 2 HS and no TE's. It wouldn't have much range, so I dunno if it would really be faster or not. It would probably depend on the mission and what range you have to fight at. I think what I will do is fit a cap-boosted dual-rep Harb to do the easier L3's, and keep the aforementioned Abaddon for the harder/longer range ones (Blockade, for instance.)
Shereza	Posted - 2008.04.28 22:20:00 - [5] TBH, if the character you're planning on putting into an abaddon can't handle T1 armor hardeners you shouldn't be trying it. I tried armor tanking L3s in a dominix with just resistance amps and T1 reps, mind you I could solo every L3 in a passive missile ferox at the time, and it was a lesson in frustration and the dominix is probably more suited to being used by under-trained pilots than the abaddon is. If you insist on trying it I'd suggest using pulse lasers over beams. For starters L3s are where the range starts getting long but is usually short to mid still so pulse lasers have the range to handle things. Secondly, instead of dual webbing you might consider a target painter for painting things outside of web range. Thirdly, only use a cap injector if you have no intention of looting much less salvaging, which is indicated by the lack of tractors/salvagers in your highs. Frankly, I think you're going to run a very strong risk of burning through your cap boosters halfway through a mission with that sort of a setup. ____________________ Minmatar in Fantasy or Duct Tape Goes Medieval.
Chelone Stone Shadow Syndicate	Posted - 2008.04.28 23:43:00 - [6] The dual web is to deal with scrambling frigs or other small priority targets, without needing Drones 5 + Interfacing, though web would also help with cruisers or anything that got close. The basic idea of battleship on L3 is that you can burn things fast, at longer range, and you have a larger HP buffer so tanking isn't as crucial. I could easily run T1 hardeners, I just don't see them as being necessary. Running a standard resistance tank would take a lot of slots, running this dual-rep-capboost takes 3. I have done most L3's with an Abaddon using Mega Beams + Drones, no web, and practically no tank. This setup gives you a tank WHEN NEEDED, and uses only 3 module slots to do it, giving 7 free med/low for anything other than tank. The cap boosters would only have to be run in sustained-tank circumstances. I see myself barely using them, since I rarely even had to turn on the single LAR in my old, poorly tanked setup. But dual rep is nice to have for emergencies. I do see lack of a sensor booster as annoying, but it can't realistically be fit in without having Drones 5 + Interfacing to take the place of webs. I don't see a point to Mega Pulse for L3 unless they are range boosted (Apoc.) If I'm fighting at 20km I might as well use a Harb. I don't think anyone has really yet grasped the idea of how this fitting very nicely substitutes for lack of skills, but whatever. I'll try it myself to prove its worthiness, or make changes as needed. Again I'll probably run Harb on the easier L3's anyway.
Heloise ChateauBriande	Posted - 2008.04.29 00:05:00 - [7] Edited by: Heloise ChateauBriande on 29/04/2008 00:06:28 Althought Gallente by race I liked the look of amarr ships and trained them up first. I ran level 3 missions in an Apoc for a long time. I see problems for this build. If you are bound and determined to use an Abaddon for level 3 missions I would still ditch the large guns. They are going to be a serious pain to use - especially since you won't have good skills for them. I think you would be much better off with medium guns. If you wanted to go with low low low low skills I would suggest something with a (massive) passive shield tank (these are good for low skill) and missiles of some sort (so you won't have to use so many slots for tracking). Maybe a Drake, Scorpion or Raven. Domi would do great as well but you would want some drone skills. Good luck, Helo
Praxis1452 The Hoodie Mafia Cosa Nostra.	Posted - 2008.04.29 01:43:00 - [8] don't cap boost, 1 LAR with 3-4 mission specific hardeners. 3x cap recharger, 3x ccc, heat sinks or cap power relay's in the low's. Drones for smaller things. Medium guns work on l3's better than BS size turrets. -------------------------------------------- ôHe who must expend his life to prolong life cannot enjoy it, and he who is still seeking for his life does not have it and can as little enjoy it"
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2008.04.29 01:53:00 - [9] I disagree. By all means cap boost: Use your cargo for SOMETHING. However... Drop a LAR, and use two hardeners. Will give you MUCH better cap effiency. Also, in a level 3 you should never need the AB... Drop that for a Tracking Computer to replace the tracking enhancer you dropped to fit the two resist mods. oh yea, if your gonna cap boost, dont fit CCC's... Unless you are going to change later when you have proper skills. It should work with low skills... The cap booster gives you the cap you need (not like you really need to tank much in a level 3: The abby's resists and two hardeners would make it so much better... Carry MF/standard/radio in cargo, or gamma/standard/microwave if you want the ranges closer. Train drones 5 ASAP with that alt.
Chelone Stone Shadow Syndicate	Posted - 2008.04.29 04:09:00 - [10] Edited by: Chelone on 29/04/2008 04:09:52 Originally by: Praxis1452 don't cap boost, 1 LAR with 3-4 mission specific hardeners. 3x cap recharger, 3x ccc, heat sinks or cap power relay's in the low's. ROFL. So 8 slots for tank instead of 3? This is L3, dude. You missed the point completely. Originally by: Lance Fighter The cap booster gives you the cap you need (not like you really need to tank much in a level 3) Bingo. As for the CCC rigs, they are already on. Not gonna rip them out just cause something else could be more efficient. They still HELP, they allow me to sustain guns&more indefinitely without cap boosting. Originally by: Lance Fighter The abby's resists and two hardeners would make it so much better... Train drones 5 ASAP with that alt. Abaddon's resists exist regardless of setup, so that's moot. 2 perfectly chosen hardeners would seem to take the place of a LAR, but it still costs an extra lowslot, and as you said, L3 tank is secondary to gank for battleship. But if I end up popping 800's like candy, or running out on a mission, I might sacrifice a lowslot for dual hardener. Drones 5 - again that's 5 more days, plus a 6th for interfacing to make it worthwhile. "Nubaddon" emphasis on the nub. 6 days sooner is great if it works, and that's really the point here. Once I get Drones 5, I'll switch out the webs for Sensor Booster w/ lock time script, and either Tracking Comp w/ tracking script or Target Painter. Hmm, another idea I just had. Large Smartbomb(s)? Not sure how dangerous they are in highsec nowadays, but that could also take the place of the webs.
Chelone Stone Shadow Syndicate	Posted - 2008.05.05 02:25:00 - [11] I've decided to not try the dual-fleeting web idea. My harb got locked down on a L2. It had 1 fleeting web, but was still unable to kill a web inty with medium-size beams up close. I fear the same thing could happen in Abaddon with dual-fleeting and large beams, and if I'm scrammed - either poof, or have to have someone come and rescue me. Not worth the risk. So, in place of webs, I'll be running named sensor booster w/ scan res script, and shadow serpentis tracking comp with tracking script. See you next week, after drones 5 and some interfacing
Kano Sekor Amarr modro CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2008.05.05 06:28:00 - [12] Originally by: Chelone I've decided to not try the dual-fleeting web idea. My harb got locked down on a L2. It had 1 fleeting web, but was still unable to kill a web inty with medium-size beams up close. I fear the same thing could happen in Abaddon with dual-fleeting and large beams, and if I'm scrammed - either poof, or have to have someone come and rescue me. Not worth the risk. So, in place of webs, I'll be running named sensor booster w/ scan res script, and shadow serpentis tracking comp with tracking script. See you next week, after drones 5 and some interfacing The harb can fit 5 medium drones which all should be able to pwn that npc interceptor pilot. (if not then fit light drones) ----------------------------------------------------------------------
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.05.05 08:19:00 - [13] Originally by: Chelone Looking to get my alt into L3 missions ASAP, figured he could borrow my main's Abaddon. Here's the fitting I came up with, I think it should rock for skillless L3 missioning: 8xDual Modulated Heavy Beam (Microwave / XRay) 1xLIF Afterburner 1xHeavy Electrochemical Cap Booster w/ 800's 2xFleeting Web 2xLarge Accomodation Rep 3xExtruded Heatsink 2xFourier Tracking Enh. 3xCCC Rig Total: 588 CPU, 20382 Grid Could actually run the fitting with Electronics 1, Engineering 0 and no weapon upgrades, though you'd need more as requirement for some modules. Cap booster lets you dual rep if required, otherwise can sit back and casually burn things to ashes. 3xHS 2xTE gives a great gun boost, pumping the Dual Modulated Heavy which are a great deal on fitting for the skillless pilot. Dual fleeting web should eliminate the need for good drone skills in scrambler emergencies. What do you think? Setting up an abaddon without t2 makes me die a little inside.
Chelone Stone Shadow Syndicate	Posted - 2008.05.05 10:02:00 - [14] Originally by: goodby4u Setting up an abaddon without t2 makes me die a little inside. T2 what? T2 beams take too much grid and cap for any skill level. T2 heatsinks are only a tiny sliver better than Extruded. T2 Rep is better but for L3 it hardly matters. T2 TE/TC would be nice but oh well. I'd much rather train support skills than T2 mods for this purpose. It's a good low-skill setup (my latest revision) but I think it will still fly like a beast with low skills. I shouldn't have even bothered trying to do L3's with my alt, and just grinded the standing on L2's. Was just getting boring...
Misina Arlath Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.05 10:18:00 - [15] Originally by: Chelone It's a good low-skill setup (my latest revision) but I think it will still fly like a beast with low skills. I shouldn't have even bothered trying to do L3's with my alt, and just grinded the standing on L2's. Was just getting boring... I'm in the same boat as you. I have low SP, but I have an Apoc and the funds to fit it. I've been doing L2's randomely whenever I log on and I've gotten to 5.34 standing from L2's alone, not realizing I could do L3 and L4's already. Now I'm fitting a low-skill Apoc to poke around in L3's for some extra fun and heat : ) -------------------------------------------------- "Every complex problem has a solution which is easy, neat and wrong!"
Jasindra	Posted - 2008.05.05 11:11:00 - [16] a bs with medium sized guns works nice in lvl 3 missions. if you have spare slots beside your 3 damage mods and some sort of tank, fit nanos to faster warp into the missions / ab to the next mission gate. don't forget to fit at least one sensor booster with scan resolution script 5 medium and 5 small drones will help alot too, compared to the small drone bays of smaller sized ships
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.05.05 14:44:00 - [17] Edited by: goodby4u on 05/05/2008 14:47:05 Edited by: goodby4u on 05/05/2008 14:46:02 Originally by: Chelone Originally by: goodby4u Setting up an abaddon without t2 makes me die a little inside. T2 what? T2 beams take too much grid and cap for any skill level. T2 heatsinks are only a tiny sliver better than Extruded. T2 Rep is better but for L3 it hardly matters. T2 TE/TC would be nice but oh well. I'd much rather train support skills than T2 mods for this purpose. It's a good low-skill setup (my latest revision) but I think it will still fly like a beast with low skills. I shouldn't have even bothered trying to do L3's with my alt, and just grinded the standing on L2's. Was just getting boring... T2....Anything I dont know why fitting t2 beams would be hard(besides tachyon), ofcourse with dual reps it might be but you would probably be better off with 1 rep and rat specific hardeners.
Chelone Stone Shadow Syndicate	Posted - 2008.05.18 05:43:00 - [18] Update: For anyone thinking of running that fitting - DON'T. Heavy cap booster and 2 Large reps as all of your tank & cap mods is totally non-viable. Even with 3xCCC rigs, you will eat cap 800's like they are freaking M&M's, and still not be able to run everything. I'm switching 2nd rep and 3rd heatsink for 1600 tungsten and navy EANM. With better cap skills, I should at least be able to fire the guns without cap boosting. Considering switching to normal cap-relay/cap-rech type tank, but still gonna give this a shot for now.
Nai Weil Caldari New Player Assistance Monkey Religion	Posted - 2008.05.18 08:46:00 - [19] I thought it took more skills to fly a BS well than a BC. If it's really just level 3 missioning without very developed skills I'd use a Prophecy instead of a Harbinger. It has more passive defence ability than the Harbinger, and without good bonuses to Energy Turrets (other than the debatable 10% less cap) you can arm it with Hybrids or Projectiles to reduce the load on the Cap while you run your repairers. It's cheaper than a Harbinger and admittedly slightly inferior in almost all departments but it is a more versatile base ship with which you can cobble together everything you want or have available.
Elhina Novae Amarr Stone Shadow Syndicate deadspace society	Posted - 2008.05.18 11:41:00 - [20] You disappoint me noob ;) Somebody set up us the bomb
P'uck	Posted - 2008.05.18 15:54:00 - [21] maybe you could try this tank acco lar, iffa dcu, 2x "refuge" adaptive plating. needs hull upgrades I, uses more lows, but maybe frees a med?
Chelone Stone Shadow Syndicate	Posted - 2008.05.18 20:52:00 - [22] I'm liking this fitting with my modification: 8xDual Modulated Heavy Beam (XRay, Standard, Microwave) 1xHeavy Electrochemical Cap Booster (800's) 1xLIF AB 1xAlumel Sensor Booster w/ Scanres script 1xnamed Tracking Computer w/ Tracking script 1xLarge Acco Rep 1xAmarr Navy EANM 1x1600 Tungsten Plate 2xFourier Transform Tracking Enhancer 2xExtruded Heatsink 3xCCC 5xHammerhead I, 5xHobgoblin I Any mission you can snipe is obviously easy. I'd like to try a close up mission again to see what happens, I'm sure I will have more than enough buffer tank now, single rep will be enough but I still might have to use a few cap boosters. Web would be helpful for close-up missions but I don't want to lose any of those medslot items. Oh well.
MalVortex Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.05.19 01:50:00 - [23] For super nub level 3 missioning, speed all 4 days it takes to grab a Drake with poor skills. Fly it right and even with crap skills you'll be OK in most level 3 missions. While your in the Drake, you can go back to your regular Amarr skillplan. I know thats not what you want to hear, but its what I would recommend if you want a truly nub character to be in level 3 missions STAT.

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