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Region Wide Buy Orders?

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Xantheris Unknown-Heroes Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.28 15:35:00 - [1] I am just curious as to why traders put up Region Wide Buys... If you are trading in say, a high volume module or ship, doesn't a Region Wide Buy get you small stacks all over the entire region in different systems and stations? Isn't it hard to consolidate all of that into one or two stations and then resell? Or do most people just remotely resell at the station the Region Wide Buy is filled? Sorry to ask a dumb question, but I'm trying to figure things out one step at a time. Thanks in advance for answers/flames.
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2008.04.28 15:40:00 - [2] For corps it works well, as items bought drop into the deliveries hangar so anyone with permissions can pick them up and transport them. And region-wide orders will get filled at a lower price generally. [WTS] Shares \| Secured ISK Loans
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.04.28 15:53:00 - [3] Originally by: Ray McCormack For corps it works well, as items bought drop into the deliveries hangar so anyone with permissions can pick them up and transport them. And region-wide orders will get filled at a lower price generally. It works well even for single individuals Ray. After the initial lag phase, you harvest/set up courier contracts for the stations where enough items piled up. And believe me, you'll have your hands full. There are only 2 issues to consider here: The initial capital to account for the buffering is by no means small And two... the whole ** is highly susceptible to mineral prices volatility, you could compensate that with setting lower margins for yourself + having brokering/accounting to 5 + standings while your prices will still be highly competitive. Originally by:** Myrdyr I hope ambulation lets you pod people in stations and they can be camped into the clone bay until they change to a different station of that corp (plus isk for the clone fees each time
Xantheris Unknown-Heroes Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.28 15:53:00 - [4] Yeah the lower price I guess offsets the time needed to haul from the remote stations the order is filled in to where you want to sell. And for Corps it makes sense as well. Any other reasons?
Prospectus Major	Posted - 2008.04.28 16:01:00 - [5] I believe region wide buy orders allows the trader to control the market for the entire region on a specific item. For instance if they have a region wide buy order priced below thier selling price they will essentially buy everything listed in that region. This allows them to 'corner the market' for the specific item in that region forcing any buyer to buy from them. In other words if they are buying all of a specific item which is listed in a specific region the only way another person can purchase the item is from them. This allows them to control the market in the region on this specific item.
Prospectus Major	Posted - 2008.04.28 16:06:00 - [6] Originally by: YouGotRipped Edited by: YouGotRipped on 28/04/2008 16:02:24 Originally by: Ray McCormack For corps it works well, as items bought drop into the deliveries hangar so anyone with permissions can pick them up and transport them. And region-wide orders will get filled at a lower price generally. It works well even for single individuals Ray. After the initial lag phase, you harvest/set up courier contracts for the stations where enough items piled up. And believe me, you'll have your hands full (if I remember well Ambo's tool allows setting up automatic courier contracts?) There are only 2 issues to consider here: The initial capital to account for the buffering is by no means small. And two... your buffered assets are highly susceptible to devaluation due to mineral prices volatility, you could compensate that with exploiting mineral price cycles, setting lower margins for yourself + having brokering/accounting to 5 + standings while your prices will still be highly competitive. It is not something I'd recommend before having many billions in your pockets. Ambo's Tool? Where can I see that one. Could be handy.....
Xantheris Unknown-Heroes Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.28 16:07:00 - [7] Originally by: Prospectus Major I believe region wide buy orders allows the trader to control the market for the entire region on a specific item. For instance if they have a region wide buy order priced below thier selling price they will essentially buy everything listed in that region. This allows them to 'corner the market' for the specific item in that region forcing any buyer to buy from them. In other words if they are buying all of a specific item which is listed in a specific region the only way another person can purchase the item is from them. This allows them to control the market in the region on this specific item. I am not quite sure that is right... Person A has a Region Wide Buy for 10 isk Person B has a Station Wide Buy for 11 isk All items in that Station that Person B setup his order in go to Person B cuz he has a higher price. But all the items everywhere else in the Region go to Person A. I am guessing the Region Wide Buy allows a trader to get uber low priced items in remote stations that only trade a few of the said item compared to stations which move hundreds of that item at higher price. Right?
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.04.28 16:14:00 - [8] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 28/04/2008 16:15:03 Originally by: Prospectus Major I believe region wide buy orders allows the trader to control the market for the entire region on a specific item. [worthless crap...] Actually the whole point with running regional orders has another purpose: Price control. Usually people buying the same items (for personal use) at sell price will inevitably drive the average price up. The trick is to set up a few normal (regional average) price buy orders for most productive locations and ranges and then use the way lower regional ones to drive the average price down. Originally by: Myrdyr I hope ambulation lets you pod people in stations and they can be camped into the clone bay until they change to a different station of that corp (plus isk for the clone fees each time
SencneS Amarr Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2008.04.28 16:23:00 - [9] I use region wide to build a stock up. Lets say you're looking for something, you know is dropped a lot in missions. Well place a region wide for it. For the most part a majority of your purchases are going to happen in things like Mission Hubs, Trade Hubs, Newbie stations. I would say at least 80% of your purchases will happen in those locations. As you keep buying items the 1 here, 4 there stations pool together. In my break even theory these little quantity are disposable, I often sell them to cheaper buy orders. Anything worth while I'll go out in an interceptor and pick it up. It also helps if you can find the "Central" system for a region. Most regions will cover anything in a 20 jump range. Even a large region like Domain has a max jump limit of 20 to get anywhere from anywhere. Most regions actually have a 10jump limit if you are close enough to the center. 10 Jumps is not much to go around and scoop up items in a ceptor. Amarr for Life
Prospectus Major	Posted - 2008.04.28 16:23:00 - [10] I am not quite sure that is right... Person A has a Region Wide Buy for 10 isk Person B has a Station Wide Buy for 11 isk All items in that Station that Person B setup his order in go to Person B cuz he has a higher price. But all the items everywhere else in the Region go to Person A. I am guessing the Region Wide Buy allows a trader to get uber low priced items in remote stations that only trade a few of the said item compared to stations which move hundreds of that item at higher price. Right? Yes the person with the station buy order would get everything sold in that station. Therefore person B then marks up what he bought at 11. This markup must be above what Player A is selling for in order to make a profit. If B were to price his sell order below a's buy price A will still end up with the item in the longrun. If B prices his resell higher than A (who is buying a much larger quantity) then people will prefer to buy from A for two reasons. One he has a higher volume for sale (people will travel further to get as many of an item as needed with only one buy rather than buying a few smaller quantities even if that price is a little higher due to saving on 'sales taxes' and other fees). Secondly, he potentially also (since he bought at a lower price) can resell the item in quantity at a lower price as well. At least that is the theory with business as I know it. I look forward to other considerations which I may have overlooked.

Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.04.28 16:32:00 - [11] Edited by: Shar Tegral on 28/04/2008 16:32:42 Originally by: Prospectus Major At least that is the theory with business as I know it. I look forward to other considerations which I may have overlooked. It is hard to say which is more: The combinations of range and price or the reason(ings) that people have for making those choices. As with all things here, it simply depends on the player's mindset, resources, intent, and market itself. There is no one right way, no singular one wrong way. There is just the way you choose right now for this market order. Comparing one market order to another is like comparing one person to another; rarely are they identical, rarely are they even close to identical. Mind you I am not trying to be offensive but I hate these kinds of threads as the responses are more often psychologically or ideologically driven. Though you'll find most delude themselves into thinking that their answer is economically driven. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.04.28 16:39:00 - [12] Originally by: Shar Tegral Mind you I am not trying to be offensive but I hate these kinds of threads as the responses are more often psychologically or ideologically driven. Though you'll find most delude themselves into thinking that their answer is economically driven. I agree. The silliest part is that in most threads like this the best reasons for doing something are never actually listed in that thread. Why? Because the few people who know them are smart enough not to give away their secrets.
Xantheris Unknown-Heroes Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.28 16:40:00 - [13] Was waiting for you to respond Shar I know there's no exact answer to this kind of stuff, I was looking for some general cases and such. Which so far have been provided and seem reasonable... to me (the expert!!! ) When I thought about Region Wide Buys I always thought it'd be such a pain to move the small stacks I'd acquire all over the place, 5, 10, 15 jumps apart, to a central hub. There's more stuff to think about though with each response.
SencneS Amarr Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2008.04.28 16:52:00 - [14] Consider this in your thoughts. Region Wide panders to the Seller, not the buyer. Even if a lower price a Region wide will fill up. As long as you're the highest Region wide. I've used this when placing buy orders before. 1) At the station place an item for what you're willing to buy it for. 2) At the same station place a 5 Jump order for 10% less. 3) At the same station place a region wide order for 25% less. More often then not the Region wide fills faster even though it's 25% cheaper (Talking about cheap products here with large volume) The reason I place the 5jump 10% less is because someone 6 jumps away will make a single jump to get 15% more. Unless you're at a market hub you'll soon see the orders are filled, Region, 5 Jumps, Local station. At least for small value items. What usually happens is the local station fills in 1 or 2 orders as someone is offloading stock. Amarr for Life
Xantheris Unknown-Heroes Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.28 17:02:00 - [15] Originally by: SencneS Consider this in your thoughts. More often then not the Region wide fills faster even though it's 25% cheaper (Talking about cheap products here with large volume) The reason I place the 5jump 10% less is because someone 6 jumps away will make a single jump to get 15% more. I like that idea.
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.04.28 17:03:00 - [16] Originally by: Shadarle The silliest part is that in most threads like this the best reasons for doing something are never actually listed in that thread. Why? Because the few people who know them are smart enough not to give away their secrets. ôOnly a life lived for others is worth livingö - Albert Einstein. Originally by: Myrdyr I hope ambulation lets you pod people in stations and they can be camped into the clone bay until they change to a different station of that corp (plus isk for the clone fees each time
Tanmoe	Posted - 2008.04.28 17:10:00 - [17] Edited by: Tanmoe on 28/04/2008 17:10:55 Quote: Ambo's Tool? Where can I see that one. Could be handy..... here you go :)
Tanmoe	Posted - 2008.04.28 17:12:00 - [18] Quote: ôOnly a life lived for others is worth livingö - Albert Einstein. He's not known for his trading skills tho ;)
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.04.28 17:15:00 - [19] Originally by: Tanmoe Quote: ôOnly a life lived for others is worth livingö - Albert Einstein. He's not known for his trading skills tho ;) Let's just say that regional wide orders are immensely profitable when running a decent number of them Tycoon 5 surely helps. Originally by: Myrdyr I hope ambulation lets you pod people in stations and they can be camped into the clone bay until they change to a different station of that corp (plus isk for the clone fees each time
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.04.28 18:42:00 - [20] Originally by: YouGotRipped Originally by: Tanmoe Quote: ôOnly a life lived for others is worth livingö - Albert Einstein. He's not known for his trading skills tho ;) Let's just say that regional wide orders are immensely profitable when running a decent number of them Tycoon 5 surely helps. Tycoon 5 really isn't worth the time unless you truly do nothing but trade. Even then it's arguable as there are ancillary skills that might prove more beneficial in the long run.

YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.04.28 18:52:00 - [21] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 28/04/2008 18:52:02 That wasn't so hard, isn't it? Originally by: Myrdyr I hope ambulation lets you pod people in stations and they can be camped into the clone bay until they change to a different station of that corp (plus isk for the clone fees each time
Shakuul Caldari Extreme Addiction Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.04.28 21:35:00 - [22] Originally by: Shadarle Originally by: YouGotRipped Originally by: Tanmoe Quote: ôOnly a life lived for others is worth livingö - Albert Einstein. He's not known for his trading skills tho ;) Let's just say that regional wide orders are immensely profitable when running a decent number of them Tycoon 5 surely helps. Tycoon 5 really isn't worth the time unless you truly do nothing but trade. Even then it's arguable as there are ancillary skills that might prove more beneficial in the long run. I think in the time it took you to train tycoon 5 you'd be better off making an alt instead.
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.04.29 01:08:00 - [23] Originally by: Shakuul I think in the time it took you to train tycoon 5 you'd be better off making an alt instead. Apples and Oranges... alts don't have the standings and secondary skills like BR/Accounting among other issues. I just don't see much need for that many orders on a single character, not for an entire months training time. Unless it's an alt designed only for training.
Lord Fitz Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.29 06:01:00 - [24] Originally by: Xantheris I am just curious as to why traders put up Region Wide Buys... If you are trading in say, a high volume module or ship, doesn't a Region Wide Buy get you small stacks all over the entire region in different systems and stations? Isn't it hard to consolidate all of that into one or two stations and then resell? Or do most people just remotely resell at the station the Region Wide Buy is filled? You will buy things for lower prices if you buy from the lazy and out of the way sellers. For one item, it may be alot of effort, as you say you get small stacks in each station, but if you are buying 100-300 different products, you end up with larger stacks of many varied products in different stations, which you can go collect in freighters and then refine for minerals, or simply resell.
Xantheris Unknown-Heroes Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.29 12:16:00 - [25] Originally by: Lord Fitz You will buy things for lower prices if you buy from the lazy and out of the way sellers. For one item, it may be alot of effort, as you say you get small stacks in each station, but if you are buying 100-300 different products, you end up with larger stacks of many varied products in different stations, which you can go collect in freighters and then refine for minerals, or simply resell. So what I am getting from most of these posts, Region Wide Buys are most useful if you are trading a huge amount of either the same or different products as Region Wide Buys allow you to get lower prices. I guess the time/money you spend carrying all the stuff from remote locations to central area is made up by the increased margin. Sounds like a cool thing to maybe experiment with.
Wieting Foyu Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2008.04.30 04:43:00 - [26] Don't forget you can just hire a courier to take your item to your central hub. Example... The current highest buy order in a station is 2m, while the highest region order is only 200k. Put up your region wide order for 250k and when it gets filled, Put up a courier for 50k. Now you Totally spent 300k for an item you can insta sell for 2m, not to mention the profit for putting up in that central hub. Doing this is relying on the lazy or just the unknowing. You will be surprised as to what items you can aquire with a .01 isk region buy order. Wieting Foyu Foyu Investments
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2008.04.30 05:10:00 - [27] Courier rule is pretty spot on, and as a mish runner at times, I gladly take at least 10-20% off the price of an object's sale price if it means getting isk faster. Region wide means you can cover everywhere with one buy order which isn't necessarily the highest in the region. Improve Market Competition!
Ordon Gundar Caldari Impending Doom Inc. The Crimson Federation	Posted - 2008.04.30 09:02:00 - [28] Originally by: Xantheris Originally by: Lord Fitz You will buy things for lower prices if you buy from the lazy and out of the way sellers. For one item, it may be alot of effort, as you say you get small stacks in each station, but if you are buying 100-300 different products, you end up with larger stacks of many varied products in different stations, which you can go collect in freighters and then refine for minerals, or simply resell. So what I am getting from most of these posts, Region Wide Buys are most useful if you are trading a huge amount of either the same or different products as Region Wide Buys allow you to get lower prices. I guess the time/money you spend carrying all the stuff from remote locations to central area is made up by the increased margin. Sounds like a cool thing to maybe experiment with. Only do this if: (i) You can find an item that isnt currently being buy-ordered to death. (ii) You know the price history on the product well enough, so that you can guarantee that you can sell it for profit at some point. (iii) You have the time and resources to fly around collecting, or have enough margin to pay couriers. "Stay Small..Fly Fast..Keep Your Ship" - Ordon Gundar - Low Sec Survivalist & CEO of Danger Zone Enterprises
Todo Akamura Caldari Royal Enterprise Infinite Innovation	Posted - 2008.05.19 09:38:00 - [29] I used to have regional buy orders not much time after i started my trading carrier. I started with 15mil isk and started to trade few items at 5 jumps from the begining, then, after i got more skills i slowly got into regional buy orders, but... In comparison to all of u, i am lazy, so i didn't go after those items and i am greedy, so i didn't make courier contracts :). I just sold everything i bought in the same station the order was filled in. I even got better prices in lowpopulated, far from center area's then in the station where most of the trading was going. Some items were selling very very slow, especially lowsec 1s, but they were selling eventually. From other point of view, this allowed me to have different type of investment by selling not many items, i had short term for those items that were filling in central hubs, and long term for the things that were selling slowly. I started to do it when i only had 500 mil i think, but plenty of time, so i could put low quantity orders and watch them always, but there were situations when i had no cash to have another buy order, but plenty of stocks, in these cases i just waited. Now i decided to move out of that region, it got too much competitors and i don't have time anymore, when i sold out all my stocks, i got 5 bil of cash, i started from 15 mil. Not bad i say, since i dedicated very little time to this, i was always buying gtc for 2 acc and providing my combat alt with implants, ships , modules, so 5 bil in cash still left is very good imho. Our corp is recruiting, don't miss your chance!
Blue Dice Gallente Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.19 11:54:00 - [30] Originally by: Xantheris When I thought about Region Wide Buys I always thought it'd be such a pain to move the small stacks I'd acquire all over the place, 5, 10, 15 jumps apart, to a central hub. There's more stuff to think about though with each response. It is indeed a pain if you think in terms of a few items traded. But as soon as you start to think in larger scales that view will change drastically. If you trade, say 50 to 100 items in a region where there is no central hub which covers 80% of all trades, but where 50% of all items are sold bought outside of one or two hubs that view will change quickly. Of course there will still be 3-5 Systems where you will have a lot of work, but even in the other systems items will gather up to nice amounts quickly and a few well planed runs every week will get you those items to your main sales points. Of course you need more funds to finance that "stock" and the turnover is a little bit lower, but if this increases the amount of traded goods by about 50% it is worth it. Nano Tech Inc.



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