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Candidates: The future of tech 2 bpo

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Tergiminius	Posted - 2008.04.28 23:31:00 - [1] Edited by: Tergiminius on 28/04/2008 23:32:58 With all the whining that currently goes on for / against T2 bpos what would you see as the way forward on this issue, are you for them remaining, turned into long run bpcs or should they be removed altogether ? This is an important question as we need a resolution on this before we head into Tech 3, there's a lot of speculation round this and as yet CCP have no answer.
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.04.29 00:14:00 - [2] Remember if you're for phasing out of tech II BPOs then you're for endless grinding and more horrid POS'. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.04.29 05:20:00 - [3] I would offer you a longer response, but your question is kinda vague. You don't put forward any issue. As such, i think that the T2 bpo's are just fine. It wouldn't be too smart to convert them into BPC's.
Slayton Ford STK Scientific Black-Out	Posted - 2008.04.29 05:32:00 - [4] With the refinments to invention, cartels of T2 BPO holders are no longer an issue. The main issue with T2 is high end moon minerals being monopolized by select few alliances. --------------- This sig has been censored in fear of recieving the ban hammer...
Peri Stark Gallente Blue Labs Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.04.29 05:36:00 - [5] This topic was covered recently in another thread. I think the only T2 BPO "issue" is on the forums. I think this is just beating a dead horse. ================================================ Just because your paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you! Vote Peri Stark for the CSM.
Daveydweeb Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.29 09:47:00 - [6] Originally by: Danton Marcellus Remember if you're for phasing out of tech II BPOs then you're for endless grinding and more horrid POS'. I'm not sure I see the causal link here. Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Zanpt Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.29 11:05:00 - [7] Put the damned T2 BPOs on the market. Seed them like other BPOs. This business where the Market is not allowed to do its job and its IMPOSSBLE to get most T2 BPOs is absurd.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.04.29 11:14:00 - [8] Originally by: Zanpt Put the damned T2 BPOs on the market. Seed them like other BPOs. This business where the Market is not allowed to do its job and its IMPOSSBLE to get most T2 BPOs is absurd. Have you tried invention?
Daveydweeb Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.29 11:15:00 - [9] Edited by: Daveydweeb on 29/04/2008 11:15:28 I'm guessing you've never tried your hand at invention, then. EDIT: efb Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Eternal Hatred Amarr Pantsu Garu Limited Technologies	Posted - 2008.04.29 12:51:00 - [10] Originally by: LaVista Vista As such, i think that the T2 bpo's are just fine. It wouldn't be too smart to convert them into BPC's. +2 for you in my books, Sir _________________ It's great being an Amarr, isn't it??? :(
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.04.29 14:29:00 - [11] Tech2 bpos in the game currently are absolutely fine, they've been shuffled around now and bought and auctioned and traded and reached their current owners through the workings of a free market economy in the game. Its no longer about freebies from the lottery and now much more about 2-3 year funding planning on X auction amount. If I want to buy myself a Nighthawk BPO in the current environment I'm going to be paying 55billion isk and its going to take several years to pay back the investment. Thats entirely reasonable and its actually unreasonable to suggest that at any point in the future that BPO should suddenly turn to a BPC and make my investment meaningless. Inventional is a fully viable alternative for startup industrial outfits - tech2 bpo owning is no longer the beginning and end of the equation, and current tech2 owners have to bid for supply on components derived from moon minding holdings the same as anyone else does. In short, I think the tech2 system in Eve is currently pretty good, there are opportunities for risk takers (tech2 auctions,) opportunities for the average industrialist (invention), opportunities for cartels and raw materials cartels (moon minerals and components) and taken as a whole, it works. CSM Election Manifesto 2008
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.04.29 14:34:00 - [12] Jade is completely right. I was gonna write a large post about that, now that I'm home from class, but Jade beat me to it. Also, you have to remember that T2 BPO's actually increase the stability of the T2 markets. This is because the build costs on T2(The more T2 components the item uses, the large stabilizing effect the T2 BPO's have) BPO's is smaller. So while they can't keep up with the supply, the are able to do it to a small degree, and thus decrease the volatility of the market, if the moon minerals swing. So all in all, T2 BPO's ARE good for the consumers. They aren't an isk printer anymore. In fact, you will see T2 BPO's selling for many times the yearly profit. For instance, i have seen some T2 bpo's being sold at prices, which would make it do about 1-3% return on investment per month.
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.04.29 14:57:00 - [13] With 300 millions worth of datacores and decryptors I got enough runs to do 15 rapiers. It will take me about a week to build them. My margin per ship is much lower than the one of a T2 bpo builder, but I have more than double his output, which mean I'll still make a confortable amount of money. And that's with using only 3 factory slots. I could triple that output easily, assuming I had the capital for buying enough construction components. T2 bpos are fine. Invention is mostly fine, too, with just the ME/PE of input BPC and effect of meta 0 items needing looking at. ------------------------------------------
Tergiminius	Posted - 2008.04.29 17:17:00 - [14] The reason I raised the issue wasn't anything to do with the affect of pure invention per say but more to get an idea of what side of the fence you sit on with regards to the bpos. Whilst many agree they are fine as they are, there are also probably an equal number who disagree and will always disagree as they can't see themselves being in a position of owning an "isk printing machine" and think it's highly unfair that nothing is done about this. Yes we all know about 95% of the t2 bpos are rubbish and you can invent anything anything anyway but this point of view remains so, each thinking they should go or stay. It should be the role of the CSM candidate to collate all points of view for/against and remain unbiased towards any side in the CSM role.
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.04.29 20:02:00 - [15] Right now they're only two real isk-printing machines: dyspro/prom moons and invention. Only invention require some sweat, and rare moons require you to be in a big alliance. ------------------------------------------
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.04.29 20:09:00 - [16] Originally by: Tergiminius The reason I raised the issue wasn't anything to do with the affect of pure invention per say but more to get an idea of what side of the fence you sit on with regards to the bpos. Whilst many agree they are fine as they are, there are also probably an equal number who disagree and will always disagree as they can't see themselves being in a position of owning an "isk printing machine" and think it's highly unfair that nothing is done about this. Yes we all know about 95% of the t2 bpos are rubbish and you can invent anything anything anyway but this point of view remains so, each thinking they should go or stay. It should be the role of the CSM candidate to collate all points of view for/against and remain unbiased towards any side in the CSM role. But isn't the idea that CSM should filter out logic-less whine? I mean, I'm yet to see ANY argument for why T2 bpo's should be removed, with invention in place. Unless you can give me 1 reason why T2 BPO's are bad, I don't consider them to be a problem. But i probably need perspective, and if you can give me a good argument against them, I'm sure it will be included in any discussion, to at least TRY and prove why T2 BPO's are bad.
MongWen Farmer Killers United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2008.04.29 20:22:00 - [17] In my opinion the T2 BPOÆs shod stay as they are, now how that will effect the t3 invention it is a bit too early to say. And that some people still think they are isk printing machines should go into a bit more work and buy one for them self. And as stated before it is not the producers that get the isk printer at the moment it is the 0.0 alliances that have the good moons. ------------------------- Vote MongWen For The CMS. [Campaign Site]
manasi Caldari Ceptacemia Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.04.29 20:27:00 - [18] FWIW...Lavista...sometimes a good illustration of what is wheat, versus what is chaff is needed the OP is an example of chaff for example.
Tergiminius	Posted - 2008.04.29 20:37:00 - [19] I agree it is chaff I never said i'm against t2 bpo as i've owned a few and currently own one now. I was trying to gauge really a perspective of the CSM stance as there are people who would like them removed (me I don't know tbh as there are pros and cons) and I am hoping to see a candidate who filters the whines from all sides, without bias to one camp only.
Arithron Gallente Gallente Trade Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.29 20:56:00 - [20] Edited by: Arithron on 29/04/2008 20:58:30 Let me see if I am understanding this discussion so far (some arguments have taken from other threads) : The T2 BPO's are just fine the way they are becauseà They've been shuffled around now and bought and auctioned and traded and reached their current owners through the workings of a free market economy in the game. Invention is a fully viable alternative for start-up industrial outfits. Current T2 owners have to bid for supply on components derived from moon minding holdings the same as anyone else does. T2 BPO's actually increase the stability of the T2 markets. Most T2 BPOÆs arenÆt ISK printing machines as invention now ensures that sell prices have to be competitive with invention T2 stuff. If they werenÆt in-game, many items wouldnÆt be available as invention costs would be more than players willing to pay for items. Some hard-to-invent items would sky-rocket in price if T2 BPOÆs removed. The T2 BPOÆs should be replaced/removed becauseà Certain Corps or Alliances have a monopoly on certain T2 items and the lower price cap (due to the ability to improve ME) and faster production rate (from improving PE) means that they can make good profit and sell below invent cost. The price of T2 BPO puts the owning of a T2 BPO beyond the reach of newer players and Corps. With invention failures and run limits, most players canÆt afford to invent and compete, since T2 holders have an advantage of always succeeding and having lower costs. The requirements for invention, coupled with high skills required for many items (eg, Ships), means that only older players can realistically invent- and these are those players that are more likely to just have the BPO or the disposable isk. Newer players want to be able to build and sell the more profitable T2 items onto markets. Inventors can invent more lots than a BPO can produce. Of course, T2 BPO owners, if they wanted, could also invent alongside their T2 BPO production. Has anybody have any further thoughts to add to this list of pros and cons? Bruce Hansen
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.04.29 22:11:00 - [21] Deconstructing the "cons": * Certain Corps or Alliances have a monopoly on certain T2 items and the lower price cap (due to the ability to improve ME) and faster production rate (from improving PE) means that they can make good profit and sell below invent cost. Nobody in his right mind will sell significantly below invention cost unless the market is so saturated that inventors would have bailed out a long time ago anyway (so they would only be competing with other BPO holders anyway). Prices are mainly set by inventors (the ones that have most of the potential supply in hands) for all "in demand" items... while items "not in demand" would only become prohibitively expensive without T2 BPOs (so expensive nobody would bother inventing them, since nobody would be buying them at all in the first place). * The price of T2 BPO puts the owning of a T2 BPO beyond the reach of newer players and Corps. The price of a Titan/Mothership does the same, should they be so cheap a 1-month player could afford them ? Also, the price is 100% set by the players. Some T2 BPOs have nothing but a sentimental value, still prices asked are huge. Bottom line... so what if new players/corps can't afford T2 BPOs ? It's not a good reason to remove them. * With invention failures and run limits, most players can’t afford to invent and compete, since T2 holders have an advantage of always succeeding and having lower costs. You don't compete with BPO holders, you only compete with other inventors. You only need to look at the prices of T2 items that have no BPOs in existance to see what I mean. * The requirements for invention, coupled with high skills required for many items (eg, Ships), means that only older players can realistically invent- and these are those players that are more likely to just have the BPO or the disposable isk. The higher the entry barrier, the better the market for those that finally get there. You only need to look at the T1 market to see what a disaster for profits a very low barrier of entry causes. Heck, I would even argue the entry barrier for invention is not nearly high enough as it is. * Newer players want to be able to build and sell the more profitable T2 items onto markets. If they are so profitable, then let them get the needed skills and funding with other activities. But as soon as they get there, they will realize that it's not the milk-and-honey land they thought it would be, and that simply manufacturing T1 ammo in a mission hub would bring them better profits for the capital they can afford to invest. * Inventors can invent more lots than a BPO can produce. How's that a con for T2 BPOs existing ? 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Arithron Gallente Gallente Trade Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.29 22:18:00 - [22] Edited by: Arithron on 29/04/2008 22:19:05 Its in the 'Reasons to remove T2 BPO' section. Essentially, if I understand the argument correctly, the T2 BPO aren't needed to keep up supply as more BPC can be invented and built from in a month than items built from a BPO alone. Bruce Hansen
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.04.29 23:10:00 - [23] Originally by: Daveydweeb Originally by: Danton Marcellus Remember if you're for phasing out of tech II BPOs then you're for endless grinding and more horrid POS'. I'm not sure I see the causal link here. Really? Remove BPOs in favor of BPCs and we'll have many more POS' churn out BPCs to grind that thing called invention, what's not to see? Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.04.29 23:18:00 - [24] Originally by: Arithron Its in the 'Reasons to remove T2 BPO' section. Essentially, if I understand the argument correctly, the T2 BPO aren't needed to keep up supply as more BPC can be invented and built from in a month than items built from a BPO alone. For the items in demand, true. But for those items that "manufacturing from high ME BPO" is still barely profitable, it would be the death bell ringing. 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Serenity Steele Dynamic Data Distribution Ministry of Information	Posted - 2008.04.29 23:50:00 - [25] Originally by: Jade Constantine Tech2 bpos in the game currently are absolutely fine, they've been shuffled around now and bought and auctioned and traded and reached their current owners through the workings of a free market economy in the game. Its no longer about freebies from the lottery and now much more about 2-3 year funding planning on X auction amount. If I want to buy myself a Nighthawk BPO in the current environment I'm going to be paying 55billion isk and its going to take several years to pay back the investment. Thats entirely reasonable and its actually unreasonable to suggest that at any point in the future that BPO should suddenly turn to a BPC and make my investment meaningless. Invention is a fully viable alternative for startup industrial outfits - tech2 bpo owning is no longer the beginning and end of the equation, and current tech2 owners have to bid for supply on components derived from moon minding holdings the same as anyone else does. In short, I think the tech2 system in Eve is currently pretty good, there are opportunities for risk takers (tech2 auctions,) opportunities for the average industrialist (invention), opportunities for cartels and raw materials cartels (moon minerals and components) and taken as a whole, it works. Good description Jade. I agree with this reasoning. ≡v≡ Strategic Maps now in Eve-Online Store
Chrisb6122 Gallente LEGI0N	Posted - 2008.04.29 23:55:00 - [26] humm lots of familar faces posting here. *bks thread and hopes it doesn't turn into a flame fest like all the others. -
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.04.30 03:52:00 - [27] Originally by: Chrisb6122 humm lots of familar faces posting here. *bks thread and hopes it doesn't turn into a flame fest like all the others. Hey Chris, long time no see. I'm yet to experience a flame fest on these new CSM forums.
Octavinus Augustus Amarr Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.30 09:55:00 - [28] I'm not sure I get the point here. Either Tech II bpo's have to go out completely or the should stay as they are. Why not look at the middle way? Let's take a BPO and compare it to the same invented BPC. The BPO starts life with ME and PE at 0, and can then be researched, so that it's efficiency is improved for all time to come. The same invented BPC starts out with ME and PE at probably either -1 or -2 depending on the items used in inventing it (if none is used ME and PE will be -4). These numbers are (to my knowledge) impossible to change. So, as things are today producing stuff through invention will probably cost at least 30-40% more than producing it through BPO's. On top of this it's more timeconsuming as the producer will need to gather the items needed for invention and some of the invention runs will be failures. So where does CSM candidates stand on suggestions like improving the start ME and PE on invented bpc's to be 0, just like BPO's? Where do you stand on making it possible to do ME and PE research of invented BPC's? Do you believe at all that its an issue that inventors spend more podtime and isk to get an item, than BPO owners who simply got an BPO in a lottery once upon a time? Personally, I think that a good CSM candidate is one who can actually find a balanced solution to a problem, rather than simply saying "It's fine as it is" or "It needs to go". Q: How do you make a disobediant Minmatar slave scream? A: Skin it and roll it in salt.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.04.30 11:15:00 - [29] Originally by: Octavinus Augustus I'm not sure I get the point here. Either Tech II bpo's have to go out completely or the should stay as they are. Why not look at the middle way? Let's take a BPO and compare it to the same invented BPC. The BPO starts life with ME and PE at 0, and can then be researched, so that it's efficiency is improved for all time to come. The same invented BPC starts out with ME and PE at probably either -1 or -2 depending on the items used in inventing it (if none is used ME and PE will be -4). These numbers are (to my knowledge) impossible to change. So, as things are today producing stuff through invention will probably cost at least 30-40% more than producing it through BPO's. On top of this it's more timeconsuming as the producer will need to gather the items needed for invention and some of the invention runs will be failures. So where does CSM candidates stand on suggestions like improving the start ME and PE on invented bpc's to be 0, just like BPO's? Where do you stand on making it possible to do ME and PE research of invented BPC's? Do you believe at all that its an issue that inventors spend more podtime and isk to get an item, than BPO owners who simply got an BPO in a lottery once upon a time? Personally, I think that a good CSM candidate is one who can actually find a balanced solution to a problem, rather than simply saying "It's fine as it is" or "It needs to go". Again, what are you trying to solve? It just seems to me like you request a change, just for the sake of change. As it is now, invention can make much more isk than owning a T2 BPO. T2 BPO's are virtually worthless, if you look at the return-rates. If you ACTUALLY make invention BPC's ME0, PE0, the only difference between T2 BPO's are the invention chance and datacore cost. It could be very interesting to be able to research BPC's to ME0 though.
New Hampshire Caldari Eve Industrial Builders' Network	Posted - 2008.04.30 12:20:00 - [30] I do NOT like the idea of eliminating tech II BPOs currently in existence. People got those fair and square (except for you-know-who) and it's not right in my view to take it away even though of course for selfish reasons I'd prefer they were not out there. I think players should be able to bank on a certain level of stability, trustworthiness with regard to what they are buying/selling/obtaining.
Breha Organa	Posted - 2008.04.30 18:55:00 - [31] I loved it when CCP introduced the idea of invention. For the most part, I like the blueprint system the way it is, and the bpos in existence should remain in existence. I would like to see invention extended to include the invention of a bpo... with slightly more skills/materials needed to invent a bpo rather than simply a bpc. Tech II bpos ought to be fewer and farther between than Tech I... but just make it harder to invent one. My other pet blueprint peeve is not showing decimal amounts of materials needed for production... and for large quantity production, every unit of Ferrogel counts.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.30 19:34:00 - [32] T2 BPOs used to be a large problem for making t2 production and wealth essentially a crap shoot. This has been fixed via invention and now all you have to do is buy into the game via invention such there is no "hump" that cannot be overcome by an industrialist as there was previously. Because there is no hump, despite the original imbalance there isn't much of a reason to change the system. After all, it would be just as if the BPO producers had bought into the invention system earlier[And invention allows much faster production that BPO's do]. Vote Goumindong for CSM
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.04.30 22:15:00 - [33] Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 30/04/2008 22:15:50 Luck is always a factor when deciding who gets rich, be if rare drops or tech II BPOs, what I want to see is a microscopical chance to get a BPO from a successful invention run, that way the BPOs won't be so rare in the distant future and it'll all be a non issue and people can moan about how tech III is killing them instead. Not less but more tech II BPOs, any candidate behind that sentiment? Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Breha Organa	Posted - 2008.04.30 22:46:00 - [34] Originally by: Danton Marcellus Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 30/04/2008 22:15:50 Luck is always a factor when deciding who gets rich, be if rare drops or tech II BPOs, what I want to see is a microscopical chance to get a BPO from a successful invention run, that way the BPOs won't be so rare in the distant future and it'll all be a non issue and people can moan about how tech III is killing them instead. Not less but more tech II BPOs, any candidate behind that sentiment? How about instead of a "microscopical" chance... with higher skill levels, and perhaps more components, one can "choose" to attempt to invent a bpo from the tech I bpo... with a similar fractional chance of success. If the invention fails, you get the tech I bpo returned to you, but you only get 5 attempts at invention from a bpo and you can no longer make "copies" of it. Just a few thoughts.
Arithron Gallente Gallente Trade Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.30 22:57:00 - [35] How about instead of a "microscopical" chance... with higher skill levels, and perhaps more components, one can "choose" to attempt to invent a (T2)bpo from the tech I bpo... with a similar fractional chance of success. Isn't this just another form of a Tech 2 lottery? From the posting and discussion so far, I am not convinced there is any major issues with T2 BPO. I am maybe swayed that some ME/PE changes (eg, letting invented BPC be researched to some degree) could be beneficial. Invention is probably going to be the key to T3, so having good bpc could be advantagous....a good time to even out the differences between BPO BPC and Invented BPC. Of course, some system might be implemented where all T2 BPC are treated the same, and its the skills/decryptors that are used that make the T3 BPC 'better' or 'worse' than each other...these are all just musings, however. Take care, Bruce Hansen
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.04.30 23:36:00 - [36] Originally by: Arithron How about instead of a "microscopical" chance... with higher skill levels, and perhaps more components, one can "choose" to attempt to invent a (T2)bpo from the tech I bpo... with a similar fractional chance of success. Isn't this just another form of a Tech 2 lottery? From the posting and discussion so far, I am not convinced there is any major issues with T2 BPO. I am maybe swayed that some ME/PE changes (eg, letting invented BPC be researched to some degree) could be beneficial. Invention is probably going to be the key to T3, so having good bpc could be advantagous....a good time to even out the differences between BPO BPC and Invented BPC. Of course, some system might be implemented where all T2 BPC are treated the same, and its the skills/decryptors that are used that make the T3 BPC 'better' or 'worse' than each other...these are all just musings, however. Take care, Bruce Hansen Yes it is, I find intermittend reinforcement more interesting than certified grind, I never said I was against the lottery and I don't think anyone would have a thing against more tech II BPOs entering the game now with invention taking the edge off of the holders to begin with. For tech II to remain viable as a trading commodity at least, in times of higher tech levels I'd like to see it incorporated as a needed part much like tech I is now, for this to not be a horrible bottleneck situation there need to be more tech II BPOs seeded. Not taking this route and entering tech III as a stand-alone with no pre-requisites takes away from the possibly deeper market where manufacturing/trading/hauling tech I & II to supply tech III is a possibility, escpecially since no one character can cover all bases on more than a few items. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Ankhesentapemkah Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.30 23:44:00 - [37] Nothing changed to existing BPOs. Tiny amounts of BPOs entering the game again through invention and exploration. Will elaborate later, need sleep. --- Consider voting for me in the CSM elections. You are invited to look at my campaign website, where more information is available
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.05.01 07:16:00 - [38] To point it out for the (I suppose very few) CSM candidates that haven't read the threads about T2 BPOs some thougt that surfaced there: - very small chance of inventing them (random from BPC) multiplied for the high number of jobs run daily equals rapid saturation of BPO and crash of invention (plus the usual cry of "foul" as A get a BPO and B didn't); - "granted" T2 BPO inventing from a T1 BPO with high costs, long time investment and player work (no start job, phase out account, return after x months) will still move again the market to BPO owners, but if the components and skill used are the same used for invention the impact on inventors will be lesser. If the times are set right, so that when the new generation of BPO (from inventing them) reach completion's is approximately the moment when a new expansion of EVE with new T2 items in deployed, invention will not crash, as "pure" inventors will always have the new gadget to invent while what was the cutting edge before become a mainstream item. This is my preferred option but will still has some drawback as it require a constant influx of new inventable items to get a goal for inventors while the old items are build from researched T2 BPO. Maybe T3 could be the cure here. - Research on T2 BPC: seeing the times and skills needed to research a T2 BPO I see it as not much useful. Doing that will "lock" some of the inventor research slot to do research instead of inventing and at the same time consume more ME/PE slots around EVE. I am much more for using the original BPC ME/PE as a reduction for the final product ME/PE. Obviously it will not be a 1:1 effect but something as 50-100:1 .
Gritt Pebbledasher PURE Legion Pure.	Posted - 2008.05.01 08:35:00 - [39] I support the invention system. Its open, a level playing field (tho not when checked against the BPO holders which is unfair as it entrenches advantage that cannot be replicated or matched any more) and it is immune to the kinds of BoB-Dev scandals that engulfed the game last year. By removing the uniqueness of these items, CCP have effectively acknowledged that the old BPO lottery system was open to abuse, abuse which we players subsequently discovered, happened when the Dev spawned free BPOs for his alliance. ---------------------------------------

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It's great being an Amarr, isn't it??? :(