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Misty
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Posted - 2004.04.26 21:39:00 -
[1]
Sorry.... they just don't exist. I have sought out 7 of the best recommended SS and have read evey forum thread about production formulas. I have merged the 7 and sorted and frankly, it is very rare to find any 2 that agree. Worse yet, I have tested the formulas against several dozen of our BPO and while I can get some of the BP numbers from a SS to agree some of the time... none agree all of the time. Yea, I know people claim rounding errors, but it should be easy to find the "exact formulas" and the "exact beginning" numbers. I have several alts with different levels of PE and sometimed several bpo with different ME. Using these alternatives to test against... I can not get the numbers to agree with the actual minerals that are listed on the bp or what is taken at the factory. Generally, the problems become most pronounced when the required minerals is high or the ME is low. To complicate things, BPs nolonger give you the total minerals required... they give you a "(you)" requirement and a "(perfect)" requirement. Does anyone knows how to "extract" a beginning value from a blueprint, and the exact formula (seeded with the appropriate variables, ME, PE, waste factor, etc) and the proper places and ways to round... such that the SS calculations will ALWAYS agree with the factory? No guesses, please.
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Nirces Y'Tuk
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Posted - 2004.04.26 21:52:00 -
[2]
http://www.tinkymouse.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/bps.xls
I have found not a single error with mine, if you find one please tell me
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Misty
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Posted - 2004.04.26 22:31:00 -
[3]
Nirces... Yours is the best that I have found, but you might check the mex requirement for the 425 railgun (the mex values from your SS don't match what my bp tells me) for example. More importantly, can you tell me how to extract the "base value" that you have for the bpdata from the information on a blueprint ? For example: you have the trit value for the 425 railgun at 102492... when calculating, this value gives an agreement with the bp :) So... where did you get this number? thanks for the help
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Fubar
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Posted - 2004.04.26 22:50:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Misty
More importantly, can you tell me how to extract the "base value" that you have for the bpdata from the information on a blueprint?
The formula you are looking for is:
(Excel): {base_mineral_required} = round({bp_listed_perfect_mineral_required} / (1 + {bp_listed_wastage_factor}),0)
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Misty
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Posted - 2004.04.26 23:11:00 -
[5]
hmmm... so far so good. This forumula works for the 3 test I've done so far... :) Thanks You, Thank You! PS. Nirces, your value for the Mex on the 425 Railgun should be 8772 and you have 9771... probably a typo :)
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Fjellu
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Posted - 2004.04.27 08:55:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Nirces Y'Tuk
http://www.tinkymouse.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/bps.xls
I have found not a single error with mine, if you find one please tell me
This is a great tool. Excellent!
Could you please give some instructions on how to use it with your own skills etc.
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Misty
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Posted - 2004.04.27 14:10:00 -
[7]
Quote:
Could you please give some instructions on how to use it with your own skills etc.
I'll take liberty and reply for Nirces... If you look at the last tab labeled "Skills" you will find the place to enter your specific skill levels...these values are brought forward for all the other calculations involving a spefic skill level.
Also, it appears the 1400mm Projectile turret has an incorrect value for the mex, perhaps :)
It would be nice to know where the initial mineral requirements came from. (perhaps, values listed on pre-castor blueprints?) I can seem to find a way to run the above formula in reverse to get the current "perfect" values as listed :( It sure would be nice to be able to merge these prints into the "mega BP database" that I am trying to build. And it sure would be nice if all us BP database and calculator builders would use the initial values as listed on the bp so anyone could check the numbers and calculations against the actual numbers listed on the blueprint... Just a thought...
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Fubar
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Posted - 2004.04.27 14:46:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Misty
It sure would be nice if all us BP database and calculator builders would use the initial values as listed on the bp so anyone could check the numbers and calculations against the actual numbers listed on the blueprint... Just a thought...
The reason the base mineral values are stored in bp databases is the mineral requirements for all Material levels and all production efficiency levels are calculated off of these base valuess.
You could always use 2 tables, one containing the base values and the other containing the values originally used to calculate the base values. But the only bp that could be verified against the original would be a bp with the same ME level as the original.
A verification sheet would be a better way to let anyone verify the base values.
Add a drop down validation box that lists all blueprint names in the data table
Pull all fields required for verification from the data table based on the drop down list
The user would then enter the material level listed on the blueprint. The sheet calculates the perfect values so the user can compair them against the values on the bp
If the values do not match provide cells into which the user can enter the perfect values from the blueprint. The sheet would calculate the base values from these values. The user could then update the bp data table with these values
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Misty
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Posted - 2004.04.27 15:51:00 -
[9]
Quote:
You could always use 2 tables, one containing the base values and the other containing the values originally used to calculate the base values. But the only bp that could be verified against the original would be a bp with the same ME level as the original.
hmmm... good point. I was proceeding along the lines of two tables. One with my perfect values, then calculate a second table for base values - then merging with others database to look for differences... I like your idea of a validation pull down. I may implement it in my final version. Thanks again, you are a great help :)
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Mari Y'Tuk
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Posted - 2004.04.27 17:49:00 -
[10]
I have a table of all values as i entered them.
But to some degree the verfication already exists, just enter the ME and PE5 into the sheet and compare the cost against the bp for mistakes, On top of the bpdatasheet is a set of cells that will take perfect (bp shown) infomation and convert it into base values if you find an error
Another problem is that the dev team like to change requirements of items with some patches, now you borught up mex on two different projectle weapons i will check my corp's bps
My Production Spreadsheet, Most T1 Bp data, Located here. |
Misty
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Posted - 2004.04.27 21:18:00 -
[11]
Quote:
On top of the bpdatasheet is a set of cells that will take perfect (bp shown) infomation and convert it into base values if you find an error
Ah.... I didn't understand the directions for the use of the top part of your BPdata sheet, but now I see how it is suppose to work. It is a pretty slick way to get the data into the database from the numbers off of a particular BP. Good Job!
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Mari Y'Tuk
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Posted - 2004.04.27 21:52:00 -
[12]
Ok, i corrected the 425mm bp data, couldn't find anything wrong with the 1400 data (are you sure theres an error, it would drive me nuts if there were, as it would be a rounding error which i spent alot of time working out how to avoid  ) Can you tell me the ME of your bp
don;t forget that projectile weapons have a base waste of 0.05.
Added Warrior 1 and Mega Pulse Laser 1 to sheet aswell
My Production Spreadsheet, Most T1 Bp data, Located here. |
T'el'Alana Luathin
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Posted - 2004.04.28 01:22:00 -
[13]
um, u guys do know that the 'perfect' statistic is only for P.E. rank 5 right?
Perfect does not mean if you have no waste.. just P.E.5 - that's why you don't see it anymore when you've reached P.E.5
So true Mex "perfect" value of 425 rail is 8.772 units.
I'll soon have a sheet out with all the BP data available correct, verified and in my 'patented "lazy bastard" format'  so add that one to your stack of 7 sheets already.. when it comes out  .
T.
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always look on the bright side of the cloning facility. |
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