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Luna Wolves Renunciation of Slavery.

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nikolaj Caldari Luna Wolves	Posted - 2008.05.02 01:09:00 - [1] An unfortunate case of mistaken allgiances and resulting hostilities have forced our organization, Luna Wolves, to open our eyes and realise the extreme cruelty of slavery. As a result of our renunciation of slavery, we can no longer maintain good relations with organizations known to support or practice slavery of any kind. To that end, Order of the Black Cross have been reset to a neutral standing untill such time as they see the error of their ways and renounce slavery. Nikolaj
3ll3 Gallente Tranquillity Nation	Posted - 2008.05.02 01:16:00 - [2] I have to agree unwilling slavery is just plain wrong, keeping some one who does not wish to be a slave of their own free will and desire is just vile.
Karn Mithralia Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.05.02 02:42:00 - [3] Today is a good day.
The LT	Posted - 2008.05.02 02:46:00 - [4] While I cannot encourage pandering to the Gallente and Minmatar, I must admit this is probably for the better.
Dau Imperius Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.02 06:52:00 - [5] All I have to say to this great statement is: Lupercal! But for some reason I now see the future Sons of Horus forming by doing this...after all slavery may be vile, but the Caldari State should not be going with the sick Federation and sad Republic in the process. Stil best of luck in this.
Dangerous Vixen Ebon Seraph Order of the Black Cross	Posted - 2008.05.02 11:39:00 - [6] This has been noted, hopefully you no longer plan to work for the Amarr Navy. No one is going to bully us into changing our ways. We are who we are.
Istvaan Shogaatsu Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.05.02 12:20:00 - [7] Originally by: Dau Imperius All I have to say to this great statement is: Lupercal! But for some reason I now see the future Sons of Horus forming by doing this...after all slavery may be vile, but the Caldari State should not be going with the sick Federation and sad Republic in the process. Stil best of luck in this. They better not virus-bomb any planets named after me in the process :(
Grr Amarr Epitoth Fleetyards Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2008.05.02 14:37:00 - [8] Originally by: Dangerous Vixen This has been noted, hopefully you no longer plan to work for the Amarr Navy. No one is going to bully us into changing our ways. We are who we are. Well said. Vigilia Valeria applauds your determination and resolve, let nobody try to bully you.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2008.05.02 16:22:00 - [9] Your choice of action is duly noted, and you have been set to +1 with Mixed Metaphor (denoting that no official, mutual agreement exists between us, but that neither your pilots nor your assets are to be fired upon by any operational MXD pilot, unless fired upon first). We applaud your decision, and we would present your actions as an example to all Amarrian corporations. I wish you the best of luck in your future business endeavours. On another note, are there any people up for a celebration tonight?
Sahaquiel Faust Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2008.05.02 16:23:00 - [10] I applaud the Wolves for their willingness to choose what is right over what is the status quo
Tkotm Minmatar The Wings of Maak	Posted - 2008.05.02 18:00:00 - [11] It's never too late ! We, Maak, applaud this decision and standings have been ajusted. I have great respect for Luna Wolves's pilots. If you need help, you know how to contact me.
Becq Starforged Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.05.02 19:11:00 - [12] It never fails to warm my heart to see another organization not only reject slavery, but to publicly take a stand against others who embrace it! Fly free, brother!
mr id Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.05.05 08:51:00 - [13] Edited by: mr id on 05/05/2008 08:51:43 Everyone cries about the slaves... well let me ask you, what becomes of the slaves when they are no longer slaves? I'll tell you, they become criminals. Why? Because people do not hire former slaves due to them being uneducated, ill prepared for the new found freedoms they suddenly have, and generally unable to merge into a free society. What is the freed slave suicide rate? Until I hear about a slave re-education act and see the facilities, I will not demand slaves be freed. Yes it makes you feel all warm and happy inside, "Look ma, I made a moral decision!" but thats about as far as it goes. In reality you moved a person into a lower station in life to A) Hurt themselves or B) Hurt others. So for my part, I recommend slaves remain slaves until there is an established program for freed slaves. And I warn you, it takes many many years to re-develop a freed slave to face the modern free world in which they will live, and it will consume massive amounts of isk that I don't see any governments willing to divert.
Fox Vulcan Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.05.05 11:38:00 - [14] Edited by: Fox Vulcan on 05/05/2008 11:39:42 Edited by: Fox Vulcan on 05/05/2008 11:38:24 People over money pal. Everyone has the right to freedom. I dont care if people rage against the Federation, because, after all, its a free Galaxy. Or it should be. And ill tell you what you get when you free slaves; people like me. My ancestors were slaves, they were freed, they found the Federation. And now theres me, nearly full Gallante blood and proud of it. And I swear, if I see you flying in Federation space with even so much of a hint about you that you've got live 'cargo', i'll blow your capsule into the void with a five gun salute. Slave, no. Person, yes. Freedom and Honour. **************************** "For Honour and Glory."
mr id Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.05.05 12:46:00 - [15] Well we can all see that his temper blinds his reasoning. Yes, it is easy to say, "People over Isk" because your not the one paying it. It does have a nice ring to it. If you could read correctly, you would understand the point I was trying to make, which is, Freed slaves need a system to help them cope with the freedoms they will gain. Not providing that is, in my honest opinion, is a bigger sin then just releasing them "in the wild". Good for you, good that your family line was freed, glad they could adjust and survive. Unlike the millions who couldn't adjust and survive. Oh and I do travel with live cargo, my life cargo are warheads.
Daziel Iaar Amarr PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris	Posted - 2008.05.05 16:33:00 - [16] Shall i call you a transport or will you be hopping on the proverbial band wagon. "His Will Be Done"
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2008.05.05 18:47:00 - [17] Originally by: Daziel Iaar Shall i call you a transport or will you be hopping on the proverbial band wagon. So when people do things you like, it's divine inspiration, but when they do things you don't like, it's bandwaggoning? Pathetic. Try harder next time, toad. ----- CEO, Mixed Metaphor Dance Commander
Fox Vulcan Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.05.05 20:35:00 - [18] Id, you sound like exactly the sort of rat who would look to make cash if tempers in the State flare up and hostilities break out. You cannot teach people freedom. It is theirs and theirs alone, to discover and learn. 'Teaching' them freedom is just another way of saying 'brainwashing'. Re-education is allowing them to be part of a society, to have people to realte to, not slavery. Even a miner or a workman, a factory labourer or a manufacturer, they still have their own choices, they still have society to relate to and enjoy when they have a break. All slavery was, is and every will be is a total reppresion of freedom. You say you clothe them, feed them, shelter them; only because it facilitates your own ends, your own needs. If you have no need for them, you cast them away without thought or care. And, as a free Gallante, you stand for everything I abhor. I am glad that not all Caldari are as cold as you. **************************** "For Honour and Glory."
Kohiko Sun Caldari Rising Sun Mining Inc. Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.05.05 20:38:00 - [19] Actually, Pilot Vulcan, I hear compassion in his words. Listen again. This is where I found my sig.
Kathryn Dougans Amarr B. S. Radioactive Sheep Farm	Posted - 2008.05.05 20:58:00 - [20] You cannot just give a starved man food. He will die without medical supervision. Similarly, telling a slave "you are free", will kill them. You can break the chains that bind their bodies, but you cannot break the chains that bind their minds. They require support for a while. Some may require it for the rest of their lives. Where are the Federation facilities for caring for former slaves? I have recovered several slaves from within Federation space (from the Angel Cartel), and were Customs to stop me, they would have been taken from my ship. The Customs agents are lax and I have moved them to where they at least can interact with the other people I have rescued, but I would like to do more for them.
Becq Starforged Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.05.05 22:24:00 - [21] Originally by: mr id Edited by: mr id on 05/05/2008 08:51:43 Everyone cries about the slaves... well let me ask you, what becomes of the slaves when they are no longer slaves? I'll tell you, they become criminals. Why? Because people do not hire former slaves due to them being uneducated, ill prepared for the new found freedoms they suddenly have, and generally unable to merge into a free society. What is the freed slave suicide rate? Until I hear about a slave re-education act and see the facilities, I will not demand slaves be freed. Yes it makes you feel all warm and happy inside, "Look ma, I made a moral decision!" but thats about as far as it goes. In reality you moved a person into a lower station in life to A) Hurt themselves or B) Hurt others. So for my part, I recommend slaves remain slaves until there is an established program for freed slaves. And I warn you, it takes many many years to re-develop a freed slave to face the modern free world in which they will live, and it will consume massive amounts of isk that I don't see any governments willing to divert. You are wrong on several fronts. First, it is false that all or even most slaves are unskilled. Slave labor dominates nearly every aspect of the Amarrian economy -- and while few slaves are trained in such pusuits as starship design, there are countless slaves skilled in such labor-intensive tasks as starship manufacturing. Nearly the entirety of the Amarr Empire's gravity-based mining capability revolves around skilled slave labor. These sorts of skillsets are in high demand in the Republic -- and perhaps even more so in the Federation. That having been said, there is a significant (and understandable) tendency among the newly freed to reject falling back on the skills that were forced upon them. This is where re-education becomes valuable. And while it's true that the Midular regime has eliminated government-run re-education facilities, there are private organizations that have stepped into this void, including (among others) Ushra'Khan and Electus Matari. Finally, your comment naming freed slaves as having a lower station in life than they had while being chained and beaten is wholey ridiculous; I suggest you travel to Port Sanctuary and experience fully their initiation process before making further idiotic claims about the benefits of slavery. -- Becq Starforged proprietor of Starforge Industries, a subsidiary of Minmatar Ship Construction Services At Starforge Industries, the world of tomorrow is being blown apart today!
Fox Vulcan Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.05.05 23:48:00 - [22] Becq has put his finger on the essential points im trying to get to. I may not be so skilled with words, but I havent been twisting them for as long as some people obviously have been. **************************** "For Honour and Glory."
mr id Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.05.05 23:54:00 - [23] 1st off, Vulcan, you are really starting to get on my bad side. When did I mention that I personally own slaves? You keep redirecting what I say into your own personal hatred, but I understand, you are Gallente after all. 2nd, I am glad to hear that there are some private organizations that do what I have been talking about, taking freed slaves and readjusting them to freedom. But the point I am making is that there is definetly not enough organizations doing so. Did I ever say there are not slaves being treated incorrectly? No. But I do know a good majority of them are living just fine, and are not ill treated. The issue some of you people have is that you would rather all slaves were abused so that it could make you feel even more "holier than thou" about your personal opinion on the subject. The fact is that is untrue. What logic is there is owning slaves and abusing them? huh? Productivity is reduced, illness spreads, general quality of work done by them is damaged, the list goes on. I never said I was a supporter of slavery, but at the same time I do not see the benefits of a mass freedom movement without an established and effective means to integrate them into society. Sorry but a few private organizations won't cut it, and it would bankrupt them with the sheer number of freed slaves requiring their services. All I am saying is think about it, and more then that, DO SOMETHING within your governments to get the ball rolling. I for one don't relish the sight of millions upon millions of freed slaves becoming a major debt to us all via crime.
Fox Vulcan Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.05.06 00:05:00 - [24] Try putting you money where your mouth is then, if you really give a damn. I dont see you attempting to be friendly either, Caldari, and its been a long night. As for holier than thou, I really wouldnt have to try hard, even being the godless soldier that I am. And like I said, there are those here who have ahd more practice twisting words. I made no mention that you had slaves, although your language implied so. And yet you now say that I accused you thus. I dont see freedom for slaves either, because those who ensalved them will never give up the service that they have taken off the back of others, rather than earning it. And, before you try and warp my words, I am not implying that you are one of these people. Although right now Im tired enough not to care too much...until next cycle that is. **************************** "For Honour and Glory."
mr id Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.05.06 00:20:00 - [25] I would love to donate isk to an organization that has a freed slave assistance program. Show me one. Now I am not talking about an organization that frees slaves and then "assists" them into being terrorists for their operations. I will not support that and that is just moving a slave from one job to another, hence still a slave just a different title and master. Get it right, I am Achura. You say you are godless, well I am not. Go get some much needed sleep, then come back and re read what I have written from my first post ok, open your eyes and try to understand what I've written instead of pretending to understand and getting blinded. Make your own decisions and stop letting the popular "freedom" fighters opinions determine your thoughts. Remember, everyone has their own agendas, and I can assure you if the "freedom" fighters won this victory, they would create another reason to continue to fight.
Fox Vulcan Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.05.06 00:26:00 - [26] Im not that tired that I cannot see clearly. I probably did misintupret your earlier message, because the tone was just so. I too certainly dont support terrorists, especially the likes of the Serpentis. I jsut hope that, one day, there will not be a need for slaves, and thatm some day, they might have pure, untranished freedom, without need of support or 're-education'. **************************** "For Honour and Glory."
Sepherim Amarr Ordo Quaesitoris	Posted - 2008.05.06 00:26:00 - [27] Mr Nikolaj, slavery is but one of the many facets of the Amarrian Faith and way of existance. How does your corporation view the rest of them now? Ordo Quaesitoris Forum
Bad Harlequin Minmatar Chiroptera Factor	Posted - 2008.05.06 00:41:00 - [28] Edited by: Bad Harlequin on 06/05/2008 00:43:42 Originally by: Kathryn Dougans The Customs agents are lax and I have moved them to where they at least can interact with the other people I have rescued, but I would like to do more for them. Tell me about it. There's been an ongoing party in my various hangars for years now: marines, exotic dancers, former slaves, the occasional zealot... tho i think there's enough tobacco and spirits to keep things social. I keep the small arms in different hangars, usually, just in case . Originally by: mr id I can assure you if the "freedom" fighters won this victory, they would create another reason to continue to fight. You could also assure me that the sun is a giant lightbulb, but that wouldn't make it true. What exactly do you mean by your constant quotes around the word freedom, anyway? Do you believe you, yourself, are free? Or are you "free?"
Kohiko Sun Caldari Rising Sun Mining Inc. Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.05.06 01:27:00 - [29] Pilot Vulcan, Pilot Id speaks of a very important point: docking, opening your cargo doors, telling people so indoctrinated, "You are free," and then only tossing them in the street without any form of support is much the same as tossing them off a cliff. He speaks of proper consideration before simply abandoning them to an alien environment while you feel good feelings about what you have done. He speaks of responsibility. Pilot Starforged is correct. Certain organizations, one of which I am pleased to serve, avoid such simple abandonment and provide what aid we are able - something that is easily forgotten by those not involved in such matters. However, Pilot Id is also correct for saying we would be overwhelmed by the sheer volume of people if every single slave in the Amarr Empire alone was freed at this very second, no matter how pleasing such an altruistic turn of fortune this would be. This is simply logistics. Do not forget the economics, the politics, the health care... There is the romantic ideal. Then, there is the reality of being dutifully responsible. Pilot Dougans, Please, feel free to contact any pilot of Electus Matari about help for these people, should you wish. This is where I found my sig.
Becq Starforged Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.05.06 02:28:00 - [30] Originally by: mr id 2nd, I am glad to hear that there are some private organizations that do what I have been talking about, taking freed slaves and readjusting them to freedom. But the point I am making is that there is definetly not enough organizations doing so. This is a function that should be performed by governments that care for those of it's citizens who have been abused by slavers. And it was until Midular's administration shut them down with no comment as to why. In any case, Ushra'Khan is dedicated to restoring true freedom to all our people, and are willing to take over when the Republic fails in it's duty. Originally by: mr id Did I ever say there are not slaves being treated incorrectly? No. But I do know a good majority of them are living just fine, and are not ill treated. The issue some of you people have is that you would rather all slaves were abused so that it could make you feel even more "holier than thou" about your personal opinion on the subject. The fact is that is untrue. All slavery is an abuse. It is a violation of rights. The "fact" that some or even most slaves don't bear the marks of slaverdog teeth obediance collars, or electronic whips is meaningless -- what's important is that not one single slave has the right not to be left abandoned in a livestock transport to starve and suffocate so that their master can score points against a rival. Slaves have been robbed of the very right to live; the fact that some have been allowed to live is a ridiculous argument that slavery should be allowed to continue. If a madman walked into a school and shot every third student, but gave every tenth survivor a million isk, would you call him a philanthopist, or a mass murderer? Originally by: mr id What logic is there is owning slaves and abusing them? huh? Productivity is reduced, illness spreads, general quality of work done by them is damaged, the list goes on. Arguing logic is pointless; the fact is that many slaves are physically abused by the owners, and all are abused spiritually. Originally by: mr id I never said I was a supporter of slavery, but at the same time I do not see the benefits of a mass freedom movement without an established and effective means to integrate them into society. "I never said I was a supporter of slavery, but I think it should be allowed to continue." Right. Originally by: mr id I for one don't relish the sight of millions upon millions of freed slaves becoming a major debt to us all via crime. Far better to have workers stage armed revolts resulting in theft on an interstellar scale, as is done in the State? Stones and glass houses. Originally by: mr id I would love to donate isk to an organization that has a freed slave assistance program. Show me one. Now I am not talking about an organization that frees slaves and then "assists" them into being terrorists for their operations. I will not support that and that is just moving a slave from one job to another, hence still a slave just a different title and master. I don't know where to start with this one. First, we neither need nor want your money. Second, as I've said, we provide re-education for any former slave who wishes it. Third, part of 'freedom' involves the ability to choose your destiny, and it's not surprising that large numbers of freed slaves have a desire to help win the same freedom for their less fortunate brethren. Fourth, you are being inconsistant: on the one hand you are saying that slaves should not be freed because then they'd be unemployed, on the other hand you are saying that employing former slaves in the legitimate career they've chosen for themselves is bad. -- Becq Starforged proprietor of Starforge Industries, a subsidiary of Minmatar Ship Construction Services At Starforge Industries, the world of tomorrow is being blown apart today!

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