Originally by: Reiisha

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With tachs you can get to about 60km range with multi L, no need for t2, at least in missions. I prefer faction over t2 anyway, especially for lasers, as you will only get about 5% extra damage, provided you have the t2 skill at 5. In return, t2 guns use about 25% more cap though, and the only t2 ammo worth using is the long range ammo - otherwise faction outclasses t2 ammo heavily.

Also, if you fit rat specific hardeners, you could try using a third HS rather than a 4th hardener.

The tracking computer isn't really needed at all in my experience. I can hit everything outside 15km pretty easily with decent gunnery skills, and everything inside that range simply gets killed by drones. Usually 1 tach can one shot frigs while theyre outside that range, so if you pick them off before they get in that range youre safe anyway.

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Originally by: bldyannoyed

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The only reason not to fit tech 2 is that you dont have the skills to use them.

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Originally by: Elhina Novae

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can give you about the same DPS as T2?

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Originally by: Elhina Novae

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Originally by: bldyannoyed

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The only reason not to fit tech 2 is that you dont have the skills to use them.

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You also do know that Faction Turrets drain less cap and can give you about the same DPS as T2? That little extra cap is crucial for those people that insist on perma-running a tank even thou it isn't needed 95% of all missions.

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Originally by: Wild Rho

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Originally by: Elhina Novae

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can give you about the same DPS as T2?

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They don't. Tech 2 guns get an extra damage boost per level from the appropriate weapon specialisation skill. Faction can be useful as they are less skill and fitting intensive but for raw damage tech 2 wins every time.

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Originally by: Elhina Novae

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Originally by: bldyannoyed

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The only reason not to fit tech 2 is that you dont have the skills to use them.

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You also do know that Faction Turrets drain less cap and can give you about the same DPS as T2? That little extra cap is crucial for those people that insist on perma-running a tank even thou it isn't needed 95% of all missions.

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Originally by: Dahak2150

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Originally by: Elhina Novae

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Originally by: bldyannoyed

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The only reason not to fit tech 2 is that you dont have the skills to use them.

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You also do know that Faction Turrets drain less cap and can give you about the same DPS as T2? That little extra cap is crucial for those people that insist on perma-running a tank even thou it isn't needed 95% of all missions.

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1. Sustainable setups are attainable with T2 guns.
2. Aurora
3. Scorch
4. Price
5. Gank protection

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Originally by: Elhina Novae

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Originally by: Dahak2150

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Originally by: Elhina Novae

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Originally by: bldyannoyed

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The only reason not to fit tech 2 is that you dont have the skills to use them.

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You also do know that Faction Turrets drain less cap and can give you about the same DPS as T2? That little extra cap is crucial for those people that insist on perma-running a tank even thou it isn't needed 95% of all missions.

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1. Sustainable setups are attainable with T2 guns.
2. Aurora
3. Scorch
4. Price
5. Gank protection

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Read the post above yours.

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Originally by: Elhina Novae

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Originally by: Wild Rho

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Originally by: Elhina Novae

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can give you about the same DPS as T2?

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They don't. Tech 2 guns get an extra damage boost per level from the appropriate weapon specialisation skill. Faction can be useful as they are less skill and fitting intensive but for raw damage tech 2 wins every time.

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Yes T2 guns are better by a very small margin in the DPS appartment.

Damage Multiplier:
T2 Tachyon x5.4
Faction Tachyon x5.625

Now given that 8% boost with Specialization level 4

T2 Tachyon x5.832
Faction Tachyon x5.6

Yes T2 Tachyon wins DPS wise, but taking a look at the capacitor consumption the Faction ones only take 75% as much as the T2. That trade off many many people will do just too make sure they can run a tank 24/7.

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Originally by: chinnychinchin

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[Paladin, gank]
Large Armor Repairer II
Large Armor Repairer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
Co-Processor II
Co-Processor II

Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I
Prototype Cloaking Device I

[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]

Harvester Mining Drone x5

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Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban

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Chribba? Is that you?

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Originally by: Mia Archer

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High:
2x Small Tractor beam
1x Salvager
4x Tachyon II

Mids:
Domination Stasis Web
3x Cap Charger II

Lows:
True Sansha LAR
2x Race Specific Hardners
DCU II
3x True Sansha Heatsink

Rigs:
2x CCC I

Perma Runs guns and tank, tank is sufficient for all level 4 missions, has 1080 dps with drones, can easily hit the large distance orbit ranges with multifrequency provided you have decent gunnery skills and can hit them easily with x-ray/gamma/ultraviolet even with crappy skills. Can perma run Tank Guns and Slavage with 2 CCC II

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Originally by: bldyannoyed

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Originally by: Reiisha

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With tachs you can get to about 60km range with multi L, no need for t2, at least in missions. I prefer faction over t2 anyway, especially for lasers, as you will only get about 5% extra damage, provided you have the t2 skill at 5. In return, t2 guns use about 25% more cap though, and the only t2 ammo worth using is the long range ammo - otherwise faction outclasses t2 ammo heavily.

Also, if you fit rat specific hardeners, you could try using a third HS rather than a 4th hardener.

The tracking computer isn't really needed at all in my experience. I can hit everything outside 15km pretty easily with decent gunnery skills, and everything inside that range simply gets killed by drones. Usually 1 tach can one shot frigs while theyre outside that range, so if you pick them off before they get in that range youre safe anyway.

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It's 8% extra DPS with the spec skill at lvl4, saves you about 300mill not having to buy faction guns and also drastically reduces your chances of getting suicide ganked.

The only reason not to fit tech 2 is that you dont have the skills to use them.

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Originally by: Elhina Novae

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Originally by: Wild Rho

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Originally by: Elhina Novae

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can give you about the same DPS as T2?

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They don't. Tech 2 guns get an extra damage boost per level from the appropriate weapon specialisation skill. Faction can be useful as they are less skill and fitting intensive but for raw damage tech 2 wins every time.

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Yes T2 guns are better by a very small margin in the DPS appartment.

Damage Multiplier:
T2 Tachyon x5.4
Faction Tachyon x5.625

Now given that 8% boost with Specialization level 4

T2 Tachyon x5.832
Faction Tachyon x5.6

Yes T2 Tachyon wins DPS wise, but taking a look at the capacitor consumption the Faction ones only take 75% as much as the T2. That trade off many many people will do just too make sure they can run a tank 24/7.

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Originally by: Tanith YarnDemon

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Originally by: Elhina Novae

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Originally by: Wild Rho

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Originally by: Elhina Novae

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can give you about the same DPS as T2?

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They don't. Tech 2 guns get an extra damage boost per level from the appropriate weapon specialisation skill. Faction can be useful as they are less skill and fitting intensive but for raw damage tech 2 wins every time.

---

Yes T2 guns are better by a very small margin in the DPS appartment.

Damage Multiplier:
T2 Tachyon x5.4
Faction Tachyon x5.625

Now given that 8% boost with Specialization level 4

T2 Tachyon x5.832
Faction Tachyon x5.6

Yes T2 Tachyon wins DPS wise, but taking a look at the capacitor consumption the Faction ones only take 75% as much as the T2. That trade off many many people will do just too make sure they can run a tank 24/7.

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Where to begin... =)

T2 are about 3.7%(spec 4) higher per shot, each shot takes 75% as much cap.
Since missions generally are not a struggle to survive for a certain amount of time but to inflict X amount of damage onto your opponent, and they are actively repairing higher dps will mean a higher efficiancy for missions. With the addition of t2 ammo, the fact that they repair and such you can round the damage advantage up to about 5%. This would in turn mean that the cap advantage per unit of damage is about 80% for the faction guns.

Now, when you calculate for permanent tanks there's several reasons to use them, you might fear lag, you might want to be safe for falling asleep - honestly I couldn't care less for your reasons - but there are reasons. However, the one thing that does not add up is that you keep adding the cap usage of the guns into the equation. To fire a gun, you have to be active, you have to press the button yourself, you have to be there and decide to take the action of firing a gun. This means the cap usage is ENTIRELY irrelevant the instant your tank can hold itself when you're not firing. Further more it's nearly impossible to actually calculate the factual cap use of turrets since they will have downtime and not be firing 23/7.

In the end there's down to two rational reasons to ever use low-end faction turrets over Tech 2 - one being fitting other being skills. If those last few points of CPU is that precious - go ahead, if you are to new to the game to have the skills for T2 - well you don't have much choice then do you?

Imho, that overshades minor flaws such as a 0.025 disappearing here or there or the fact that you intend to run a tank for longer than there is a server online.

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Originally by: Reiisha

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Especially when you're not maxed out on every possible cap skill, this *will* matter

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