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free play... eve need some changes

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Fustor	Posted - 2008.05.02 15:28:00 - [1] all skill's someone need to play eve for free are.. 1.Engineering lv2 2.Electronics Lv2 3.Electronic upgrades lv1 4.Science lv3 5.Astrometrics lv4 6.Survey lv3 7.Mechanic lv3 8 Salvaging lv3 Lets say you need 2 days for that skills.. and you have 12 days to do Sneak and salvage lv4 missions.. all you need is Destroyer+Photonic cpu enhancer+Recon probe launcher and salvagers...go in system where you see over 200ppl and system have lv4 agents.. warp to star and use spook probe...open solarsystem map and warp to green or yellow scan result... you will see gate or lot of wrecks ... as evry wreck drop 4x armor plates or something like that ... you can create more then 20 mil per hour so in 2 days you can upgrade trail account.. I will also post pettion bcz lot of ppl doing that and only way to keep your salvage is to be in dominix with salvagers ,marauder or play with friend.
Asestorian Domination. Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.02 15:34:00 - [2] Well, eventually I managed to understand what's going on. You're complaining about salvage "thieves". It's been explained countless times that while the contents of wrecks, aka the loot, is owned by the person who generated said wrecks, the salvage is not owned by anyone, and this is intended. Stop missioning in ridiculously overpopulated and laggy systems and you won't have to worry about it, will you? I've done loads of missions and not had anyone steal my salvage. Also, don't petition about it because it's a waste of time and fills up the petition queue, making things take longer for those that actually have a valid reason for their petitions.
Hennry Fromer radiated space gerbils	Posted - 2008.05.02 15:34:00 - [3] there are two other things you will need the intelligence to plan and the initiative to do it. What would you propose? that CCP go back to when you had to empty the wreck (and get agro) before you can salvage? Personally if someone has the initiative to do it and is in a war decable corp more power to them, their risk and reward.
Fustor	Posted - 2008.05.02 15:36:00 - [4] Edited by: Fustor on 02/05/2008 15:36:37 Im talking only about salvaging...they just sneak and salvage they dont take any loot..and if only salvage they dont have aggresion timer
Alora Venoda GalTech Giant Space Amoeba	Posted - 2008.05.02 15:36:00 - [5] Originally by: Fustor as evry wreck drop 4x armor plates or something like that ... you can create more then 20 mil per hour so in 2 days you can upgrade trail account.. haha... but no. half the wrecks in a mission have no salvage at all and many of them have worthless salvage like charred micro. and different kinds of rats drop different hi-end salvage. but yes, as more people do this you may want to try running missions in less popular systems
Frug Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.05.02 15:37:00 - [6] Oh crap guys! There's a way to make isk that isn't blindly grinding through missions but actually requires some thought and might even involve interacting or gasp stealing from other players! Fix it, it must be broken.
Fustor	Posted - 2008.05.02 15:38:00 - [7] btw Im doing that bcz I need 8 for jumpclone .. and dont want to do missions only for bounty
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.05.02 15:39:00 - [8] If you dont run your mission or rat where everyone else is, you really have wont have this problem. These so called "salvage thieves" only seem to be present in high pop. mission running hubs, so think of them as part of the risk in opposition to the higher reward of those higher quality agents. Trust me when I say if you head off to a lower quality agent, you will run into these wreck stealing folk far less often.
Asestorian Domination. Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.02 15:40:00 - [9] Originally by: Fustor btw Im doing that bcz I need 8 for jumpclone .. and dont want to do missions only for bounty So then, what's the problem?
Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.05.02 15:40:00 - [10] Edited by: Amastat on 02/05/2008 15:43:18 Edited by: Amastat on 02/05/2008 15:42:20 Originally by: Fustor all skill's someone need to play eve for free are.. 1.Engineering lv2 2.Electronics Lv2 3.Electronic upgrades lv1 4.Science lv3 5.Astrometrics lv4 6.Survey lv3 7.Mechanic lv3 8 Salvaging lv3 Lets say you need 2 days for that skills.. and you have 12 days to do Sneak and salvage lv4 missions.. all you need is Destroyer+Photonic cpu enhancer+Recon probe launcher and salvagers...go in system where you see over 200ppl and system have lv4 agents.. warp to star and use spook probe...open solarsystem map and warp to green or yellow scan result... you will see gate or lot of wrecks ... as evry wreck drop 4x armor plates or something like that ... you can create more then 20 mil per hour so in 2 days you can upgrade trail account.. I will also post pettion bcz lot of ppl doing that and only way to keep your salvage is to be in dominix with salvagers ,marauder or play with friend. That sound's a awful lot like a salvage-thief's skill plan for whenever a new alt is made :P I think you thieves have it good enough having absolutely no consequences at all jacking all the carebears stuff, I think CCP giving starting chars that entire skill-set so you have no wait time to make a new thief alt is a great way for CCP to majorly **** off a lot of their players - and I'm not talking about the worthless vocal minority either :P
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.05.02 15:40:00 - [11] I endorse the OP's poast and encourage all playes to annoy the crap out of mission runners in crowded high sec systems.
Dianeces Minmatar The Illuminati.	Posted - 2008.05.02 15:42:00 - [12] Posting in a nerf salvage "thieves" tread.
Fustor	Posted - 2008.05.02 15:44:00 - [13] yes that is plan.. they all do that.. in 2 days they become a thief as all skills can be trained on trail account... btw I dont have alt ... Im doing exploration in 0.0 but noticed as I tried to make standing for jumpclone
Shionoya Risa The Xenodus Initiative. Overclockers Podpilot Services	Posted - 2008.05.02 15:51:00 - [14] Originally by: Fustor yes that is plan.. they all do that.. in 2 days they become a thief as all skills can be trained on trail account... I'd love to see someone with little learning skills do that plan in 2 days.
Emily Spankratchet Minmatar Pragmatics	Posted - 2008.05.02 15:56:00 - [15] A nice CCP employee posted in the Missions & Exploration forum a couple of months ago to make this clear. Originally by: GM Faolchu This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage. Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up. This is how CCP want Eve to be. Until they change their minds, salvaging from under mission runners' noses is a perfectly valid profession. Petitioning will not help you. Also, try running missions in a system without 200 other sheep.
Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.05.02 16:00:00 - [16] I think the whole risk-free salvage theft, and the whole 'salvage is space wreckage' debate is broken and stupid and unbalanced - there is nothing that can be said to say it is right. Salvage thieves do not bother me however, and I can appreciate how it can drive the mission runners away from the busy hubs and help reduce lag a little, but the amount of help it does is practically non-existent and does not in any way justify that entire salvage mechanic as a balanced, working, and fair component EVE. I personally think its a crap way to make money and I would only ever go through the trouble to probe someones pocket to jack all their salvage to ** them off. It's more a tool to grief then profit I think, there is dozens of other things a pilot can do other than that and make a better profit. I run missions as my main source of active income, but I'm purely a combat spec pilot so it has not been often a salvage thief has outmaneuvered and outdone me. In only one situation has a salvage thief ever robbed me blind, I always completely outpaced every other attempt made. I also have a large network of mission battleships and agents I use, most are not in busy places, so it's rare I see them anymore. The only thing about the entire mechanic that gets on my nerves besides the complete unbalance and favoritism of it all - is that most of those thieves, when I do see them, weither they hit me or not they are almost always in npc corps. Can't wardec and camp the bastards - another item on the list of why its such a risk-free profession. I actually motion to say that the profession of being a salvage-thief is more risk-free then the jobs of the mission runners they steal from :P The upset thief's who read this can think as hard as you like, you have absolutely no defense and never will have one. My best guess of why CCP has ignored the salvage system and the complaints from the mission runners is that they have been having a lot of pressure from pirates who are struggling to find marks in low sec anymore, and the wall known as high-sec between them and carebears is nearly impenetrable. So, it was the whining of the pirates I think is what caused CCP to completely ignore and disregard it all. It would be more balanced and productive if CCP introduced a reason that would force carebears to come into low-sec, at least a portion of them, so the pirates stop *ing, and the carebears don't have to *** about CCP's goofup balance issues like the salvage crap.
Alora Venoda GalTech Giant Space Amoeba	Posted - 2008.05.02 16:01:00 - [17] Originally by: Fustor yes that is plan.. they all do that.. in 2 days they become a thief as all skills can be trained on trail account... btw I dont have alt ... Im doing exploration in 0.0 but noticed as I tried to make standing for jumpclone you can use a lvl 4 agent with -20 quality and get same standings increase as a lvl 4 agent with +20 quality... the payout will just be a bit lower. also, courier missions while even more of a grind, can be a faster and easier way to simply raise standings.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.05.02 16:02:00 - [18] Sounds great ! I think I need to make a salvage hunter alt. What race/bloodline/career/specialization do you propose?
Cptn Obvious POASTERS UNITED	Posted - 2008.05.02 16:06:00 - [19] Originally by: Abrazzar Sounds great ! I think I need to make a salvage hunter alt. What race/bloodline/career/specialization do you propose? sounds indeed great! what probes i should use?
Laura Steel The Chaotic Order Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.05.02 16:08:00 - [20] Dont you have to pay to upgrade your account regardless?
Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.05.02 16:09:00 - [21] Edited by: Amastat on 02/05/2008 16:11:54 Originally by: Emily Spankratchet A nice CCP employee posted in the Missions & Exploration forum a couple of months ago to make this clear. Originally by: GM Faolchu This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage. Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up. This is how CCP want Eve to be. Until they change their minds, salvaging from under mission runners' noses is a perfectly valid profession. Petitioning will not help you. Also, try running missions in a system without 200 other sheep. I'm sorry but that CCP employee is trying, but cannot justify the fact they will not change it. "The players are salvaging what is effectivly floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage." Sorry but CCP has rocks in there heads to say that and think people won't think its fair and impartial. Wrecks are floating rubbish - but jetcans and the loot inside teh wrecks are too. Why does concord act on that? The crying thieves may also attempt to pull out the wrecks are trash card and are owned by no one. Wrong: that is not true until CCP makes it so that the loot inside wrecks are treated like the salvage, and anyone can put a tractor beam on any wreck. By putting a tractor beam on a yellow wreck, the game itself tells you that the wreck is not trash that belongs to nobody. Until CCP changes the game in which jetcans, and wreck loot is treated the same as salvage, and you can tractor other players wrecks and cans, the current salvage system is not balanced and is not in line with the entire system. CCP contradicts their own justification against their refusal to change the mechanics. Will CCP make this motion? Please, by all means GO AHEAD - I will retract my argument FULLY if it is done. I am waiting CCP.
Cptn Obvious POASTERS UNITED	Posted - 2008.05.02 16:11:00 - [22] Originally by: Laura Steel Dont you have to pay to upgrade your account regardless? no
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.05.02 16:12:00 - [23] Originally by: Laura Steel Dont you have to pay to upgrade your account regardless? You can use a GTC to activate your trial account. I think they deduct a few days to cover the extra $5.
Cptn Obvious POASTERS UNITED	Posted - 2008.05.02 16:12:00 - [24] Originally by: Amastat Originally by: Emily Spankratchet A nice CCP employee posted in the Missions & Exploration forum a couple of months ago to make this clear. Originally by: GM Faolchu This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage. Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up. This is how CCP want Eve to be. Until they change their minds, salvaging from under mission runners' noses is a perfectly valid profession. Petitioning will not help you. Also, try running missions in a system without 200 other sheep. I'm sorry but that CCP employee is trying, but cannot justify the fact they will not change it. "The players are salvaging what is effectivly floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage." Sorry but CCP has rocks in there heads to say that and think people won't think its fair and impartial. Wrecks are floating rubbish - but jetcans and the loot inside teh wrecks are too. Why does concord act on that? The crying thieves may also attempt to pull out the wrecks are trash card and are owned by no one. Wrong: that is not true until CCP makes it so that the loot inside wrecks are treated like the salvage, and anyone can put a tractor beam on any wreck. By putting a tractor beam on a yellow wreck, the game itself tells you that the wreck is not trash that belongs to nobody. If CCP changes the game in which jetcans, and wreck loot is treated the same as salvage, and you can tractor other players wrecks and cans, it is utter and complete crap. CCP contradictes their own justifcation against their refusal to change the mechanics. Will CCP make this motion? Please, by all means GO AHEAD - I will retract my argument FULLY if it is done. I am waiting CCP. shut up. you are trying to ruin my business.
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.05.02 16:14:00 - [25] Originally by: Fustor as evry wreck drop 4x armor plates or something like that ... you can create more then 20 mil per hour so in 2 days you can upgrade trail account.. Where do you mission because I want to go there. Seriously, I may only get like 5 armor plates in the most lucrative L4 missions that I get. Typically most of my money comes from the loot with the salvage only making up about 2-5 million of the total profits.
Had Enough	Posted - 2008.05.02 16:21:00 - [26] Edited by: Had Enough on 02/05/2008 16:24:55 Originally by: Fustor Sneak and salvage lv4 missions.. Cool isn't it? though some people actually leave all the wrecks and loot (Can you believe it?) and end the mission because they make more isk from the Bounties/LP/Rewards of non stop missions, or so I hear. We're doing a service cleaning up the clutter and keeping space tidy, it's ok we don't desire any thanks the loot and salvage is thanks enough.
Rramar Claime Amarr Ordo Quaesitoris	Posted - 2008.05.02 16:27:00 - [27] Edited by: Rramar Claime on 02/05/2008 16:30:48 Right. Those floating rubbish wrecks mean a lot of ISK to some people. I understand CCP's point in this but when someone probes you out and takes away the large wrecks from you... thats a huge loss. In a level 4 enemies abound without any bounties, you do the mission for the salvage which can reach 30 mills. I'd say a possible solution would be if only people in a wardeccable corp would be able to salvage others wrecks or salvage at all. A guy in a noob corp racing you for the large wrecks and then laughing when he was faster is no way what CCP intended... Another idea is if they wouldn't let others into deadspace complexes at all. Although that would take away too much fun i know, but then again just let people retaliate somehow if they want to salvage what they earned. Edit: It's totally ok if someone salvages the wrecks after I left the deadspace complex and finished the mission, I think everyone can agree that there's no problem with that at all. That is not the problem.
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.05.02 16:29:00 - [28] I think it's time to pull out this old classic: L2P, kthxbai.
Rat XIII 5punkorp	Posted - 2008.05.02 16:33:00 - [29] Originally by: Rramar Claime A guy in a noob corp racing you for the large wrecks and then laughing when he was faster is no way what CCP intended... You put pretty incredible emphasis on something you have no evidence of. Though I do agree with you to some extent. I made my own corporation for salvaging before I joined the corp I'm in now.
Rramar Claime Amarr Ordo Quaesitoris	Posted - 2008.05.02 16:43:00 - [30] Originally by: Rat XIII Originally by: Rramar Claime A guy in a noob corp racing you for the large wrecks and then laughing when he was faster is no way what CCP intended... You put pretty incredible emphasis on something you have no evidence of. Though I do agree with you to some extent. I made my own corporation for salvaging before I joined the corp I'm in now. What do you mean no evidence? In this example i mentioned the guy waited what direction I accelerated and was going for exactly the same large wrecks i went for. Except my ship did 700 with mwd, his did about 2k :( He even warped out once to empty his cargo :D But anyway, the thing is not if you "believe" it happened or not. This kind of theft shouldn't be allowed to happen, it shouldn't be possible to do such salvaging i think. I mean if there would be a small window asking, do you let XYX salvage your wrecks for the next 15-30 minutes? yes-no. That would solve it all.

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