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Ralara
Caldari
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.05.05 10:40:00 -
[1]
I was just on the help channel and someone came up with an idea. At first I just blinked and ignored it but then I thought about it.
I also can't really think of a reason why anyone would use it but here is the scenario as given:
You're in a system with a 1/10 static complex. You're in a battleship.
You take a frigate and enter the complex and proceed to move off grid, so you're no longer in deadspace.
You BM a spot about 10km away from the deadspace border.
You get in your BS and warp to that safe spot.
You then move in the direction of deadspace until you're on grid again.
Possible?
--
Ralara / Ralarina
"Tri's dead!"
NO U
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Dario Wall
Caldari
Black Legion Industries
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Posted - 2008.05.05 10:53:00 -
[2]
Interesting idea. Someone could theoretically make a bookmark just at the edge of the grid bordering the deadspace grid. Then after they warp to it, they align and fly in to the deadspace grid with in moments, causing anyone to probe them to warp to the entrance gate.
I'll have to fiddle with it later and see what I can come up with.
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Splash Whale
Ctrl-Q Inc.
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Posted - 2008.05.05 11:00:00 -
[3]
Why would you want to do a 1/10 in a battleship anyways?
----
When in doubt, Ctrl-Q. |
Larkonis Trassler
Neo Spartans
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Posted - 2008.05.05 11:00:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Ralara
I was just on the help channel and someone came up with an idea. At first I just blinked and ignored it but then I thought about it.
I also can't really think of a reason why anyone would use it but here is the scenario as given:
You're in a system with a 1/10 static complex. You're in a battleship.
You take a frigate and enter the complex and proceed to move off grid, so you're no longer in deadspace.
You BM a spot about 10km away from the deadspace border.
You get in your BS and warp to that safe spot.
You then move in the direction of deadspace until you're on grid again.
Possible?
I believe the deadspace extends for several grids off the original grid. So while plausable, it's probably going to take a long while to set up properly.
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Ralara
Caldari
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.05.05 11:02:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Splash Whale
Why would you want to do a 1/10 in a battleship anyways?
Yes, that question was brought up by a couple of people in the Help channel at the time...
My best guess is, if it's an empire war and there's no stations in system it may possibly be useful but to be honest, the amount of effort to go to, to get this working, is just daft and to be honest, if he has time to refit into a frigate and then a bs and come back, he may as well just go to a stargate and find a station system.
I also get the feeling that the person who would do this would be using WCS anyway 
--
Ralara / Ralarina
"Tri's dead!"
NO U
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Jarimir
Minmatar
Blue Moon Holding LTD
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Posted - 2008.05.05 11:04:00 -
[6]
The idea has also come up that such a thing would be considered an exploit. Something important to consider, and something I would like a definative answer to.
*Jarimir emotes |
Jarimir
Minmatar
Blue Moon Holding LTD
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Posted - 2008.05.05 11:19:00 -
[7]
Ok, I confess I was the one that brought up this notion. The idea was given to me while I was spending time in a dead-end low sec system. It had stations AND a 1/10 plex. I think this tactic could give your persuers an interesting run for their money and allow you to avoid getting station camped (getting past the 1 gate in the system may be another matter). This application, however, has a bigger scope than that one system. As far it being too much trouble to be worth it.... Think of people that have maybe 6 different BM for "warp-to" spots at a gate or station. And just because you dont think it's worth it, that doesnt mean that other people would and have spent that much time and effort setting up good ambush or retreat spots.
I sometimes wonder why we even have forums.... They should just set up an automated system where-by postes are answered in bulk with "your idea is [choose as many as you feel are applicable] a) stupid b) wont work c) against EULA or d) wont be as effective as the accepted idea that everyone already uses"
And if you think your eternal (and blind) pesimism is actually usefull to the rest of us that have souls you can go f yourself and kindly STFU. Be sure to have a nice day while you are at it 
*Jarimir emotes |
RuleoftheBone
Minmatar
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.05.05 11:21:00 -
[8]
Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 05/05/2008 11:23:20
Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 05/05/2008 11:21:29
Deadspace is a pretty good place to hide for a bit.
You can't usually warp within the deadspace though (try warping back to initial acceleration gate to see what I mean). You also generally land right on the same beacon regardless of bm or warp-to distance.
There are exceptions. Typically if a MWD cannot be used in the area you will not be able to warp to wrecks or others in fleet.
You can--of course--sit on the beacon at your optimal and snag whatever wanders in .
**EDIT**If MWD equipped and reasonably quick to align and warp you are better off just bouncing safe spots every 30 seconds or so.
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way"
General George Patton USA
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Animin Mannja
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Posted - 2008.05.05 11:55:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Ralara
You take a frigate and enter the complex and proceed to move off grid, so you're no longer in deadspace.
Deadspace extends like 0.1AU, so outside deadspace is a mere 15 million kilometers away, at afterburner speeds.
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Xiao Endo
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Posted - 2008.05.05 12:04:00 -
[10]
This sounds like an exploit to me. You're toying with game mechanics to get a result that seems incongruous with the nature of the world that EVE represents. If this is possible I would expect to see CCP clamp down on it quite quickly if they saw people doing it.
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Ralara
Caldari
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.05.05 12:06:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Xiao Endo
This sounds like an exploit to me. You're toying with game mechanics to get a result that seems incongruous with the nature of the world that EVE represents. If this is possible I would expect to see CCP clamp down on it quite quickly if they saw people doing it.
I'm inclined to agree with this.
--
Ralara / Ralarina
"SMASH is probably the alliance most immune to failure cascade, why? because their is no organisation to collapse its just a random mish mash of various players." |
Jarimir
Minmatar
Blue Moon Holding LTD
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Posted - 2008.05.05 16:58:00 -
[12]
Granted I cannot speak for CCP, but the way I would look at it, is if people used this to bring ships in to plexes that never were meant to be there for the purposes of PWNING the plex, I would call that an exploit. But, then you would have a ways to go to get to the "action" at AB speeds but in a a slower/bigger ship. Using this to hide, it's still exploity but also could be seen as a very clever way to hide, that really has no benefit outside of the afore mentioned purpose (some would argue about the benefit part). And remember that using jet cans to mine is an "exploit" of a game mechanic that was introduced for an entirely different purpose. (Using them for mining comes with it's own set of benefits and serious drawbacks.)It really all depends on how CCP views it and if it is an exploit they'd allow, like jet can mining.
Thank you for your thoughtful input/insight, those that made them.
*Jarimir emotes |
Wake Void
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Posted - 2008.05.05 17:40:00 -
[13]
Here is a quick thought I got while reading. If the deadspace extends out for more than one grid and maybe up to .1 AU I think it would be faster to, get a quick ship with a mwd, warp to the gate, and mwd toward the deadspace from the gate. Not sure if your MWD would deactivate once you hit the deadspace pocket but would imagine it would. Then just make a u-turn and bookmark.
As far as exploit I would think as long as you are not running the deadspace in a ship not allowed your fine, all you are doing is sitting in space.
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Bish Ounen
Gallente
Omni-Core Freedom Fighters
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.05.05 17:50:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Bish Ounen on 05/05/2008 17:51:02
What I really don't understand is the POINT of doing this. I mean, if you are in an Empire war and need a SS, isn't it better to simply make some SS's yourself and do the old "warp between them until aggro goes away" bit?
Think about it. In order to get a deadspace area, you HAVE TO HAVE a mission first. In order to get the mission you have to be IN the station in the first place. In which case you are already safe, just STAY THERE to log off.
Also, Deadspaces are TEMPORARY. they only last as long as the mission is running. If you complete the mission or it expires, the deadspace area goes away. This would leave your ship floating in normal space, easy to pick out from the background noise with a scan probe.
Lastly, deadspaces are NOT that hard to find. I regularly use Snoop probes to find mission runners so I can ninja-salvage their wrecks. I myself have also been ninja-looted when running a mission, so I know it's not uncommon. So being in a Deadspace isn't NEARLY the protection you seem to think it is.
Bottom line: The only guaranteed way to keep your ship safe is to stay docked in a Station. Second to that is an Outpost, followed by a POS, followed by circular safespots and constant warping. Deadspaces are FAR too much work and FAR too unreliable to even figure in that list. Just don't bother.
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.05.05 18:01:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Tsanse Kinske on 05/05/2008 18:03:20
edit: actually not constructive. :)
* * *
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.05 18:41:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Bish Ounen
Edited by: Bish Ounen on 05/05/2008 17:51:02
What I really don't understand is the POINT of doing this. I mean, if you are in an Empire war and need a SS, isn't it better to simply make some SS's yourself and do the old "warp between them until aggro goes away" bit?
Think about it. In order to get a deadspace area, you HAVE TO HAVE a mission first. In order to get the mission you have to be IN the station in the first place. In which case you are already safe, just STAY THERE to log off.
Also, Deadspaces are TEMPORARY. they only last as long as the mission is running. If you complete the mission or it expires, the deadspace area goes away. This would leave your ship floating in normal space, easy to pick out from the background noise with a scan probe.
Lastly, deadspaces are NOT that hard to find. I regularly use Snoop probes to find mission runners so I can ninja-salvage their wrecks. I myself have also been ninja-looted when running a mission, so I know it's not uncommon. So being in a Deadspace isn't NEARLY the protection you seem to think it is.
Bottom line: The only guaranteed way to keep your ship safe is to stay docked in a Station. Second to that is an Outpost, followed by a POS, followed by circular safespots and constant warping. Deadspaces are FAR too much work and FAR too unreliable to even figure in that list. Just don't bother.
For one, he was talking about deadspace static complexes, not missions.
If memory serves me rightly, ships above a certain size can't enter a deadspace. So, battleships can't enter a 1/10.
If you could get a BM on the very VERY edge of the deadspace area, you could warp a BS to it, then MWD your way just inside it. Any attackers trying to warp to you will now find themselves dumped at an acceleration gate. Any ships big enough to attack your BS would find themselves unable to enter. Safety.
Or at least thats the OP's theory, as far as I can tell. No comment on whether it actually works. And I agree that conventional safe spots work just as well, and are far less effort.
------
Originally by: Dark Shikari
The problem with killing Jesus is he always just respawns 3 days later anyways. |
Blind Man
Cosmic Fusion
When Fat Kids Attack
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Posted - 2008.05.05 18:44:00 -
[17]
can someone actually see if this works first >.>
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Mara Rinn
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.05.06 10:51:00 -
[18]
1 million kilometres at 10km/s will take you more than 1 day. Since you will be warped to the accelerator gate when you next log in, I don't think anyone will actually be trying this trick anytime soon.
Good luck though :)
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Tamia Clant
New Dawn Corp
New Eden Research
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Posted - 2008.05.06 12:47:00 -
[19]
I remember trying this out back when there were still static complexes, I was trying to get directly to the final stage of a 7/10 plex. I moved away from the deadspace grid until all objects vanished, and I made a BM. I warped out, warped back in again, and started moving in the direction of the deadspace grid again. The BM was placed only a few kilometers away from the grid, but I moved for hundreds of KM's and never got to enter the grid again. I guess you need to trigger the acceleration gate to be moved to the deadspace grid, or it won't even show up.
Looking for queue-free research slots? Click here!
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Reverend Revelator
Geddonites
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Posted - 2008.05.06 15:22:00 -
[20]
can't mwd in deadspace |
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.05.06 15:33:00 -
[21]
It is possible but complex (deadspace) area is few grids wide. Have fun flying some thousands (up to 100 000 i believe tho saw grids as large as 1 000 000) kilometres. |
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