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Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Naqam
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Posted - 2008.05.08 01:43:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Keta Min
Originally by: Kyanzes
How could someone with distorted values raise children? ...
is that long version for "g@y parents will raise g@y kids as straight parents only raise straight kids obviously" ?
all parents equally seem to force their values onto their kids anyway so nothing would really change 
though it IS dangerous waters to be going in (allowing *** couples to adopt), it's really a subjective matter. Who gets the call on what values are 'distorted' anyway? the same people who think it's perfectly moral for wives to be expected to stay indoors all day doing housework and be no more than a support for her husbands career, by any chance?
...
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Kyanzes
Amarr
Utopian Research I.E.L.
The ENTITY.
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Posted - 2008.05.08 05:43:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
Originally by: Keta Min
Originally by: Kyanzes
How could someone with distorted values raise children? ...
is that long version for "g@y parents will raise g@y kids as straight parents only raise straight kids obviously" ?
all parents equally seem to force their values onto their kids anyway so nothing would really change
Who gets the call on what values are 'distorted' anyway?
Everything the majority of a society does considered to be normal. Be it slavery, hard labour, a feudal society or a free society. Anything else is a deviation. How else could you tell what's normal and what isn't? You either follow other people or take a different path. Besides, extremities breed opposite extremities.
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GET TO THE CHOPPA!!!
The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese. |
EvilPhog
Amarr
Art of War
Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2008.05.08 09:54:00 -
[63]
Perfect opportunity for me to plug the 'GLBTA' channel. :)
As to the discussion, gah!
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Special Eddy
Special Edd Bus
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Posted - 2008.05.08 11:12:00 -
[64]
anybody who posts here is a homo.
<insert irony here>
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EvilPhog
Amarr
Art of War
Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2008.05.08 12:12:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Special Eddy
anybody who posts here is a homo.
<insert irony here>
Damnit. Ummm, a/s/l?? xxx
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Devoras2
Amarr
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.08 12:16:00 -
[66]
It is NO human right for any person in this world regrdless of sexuality to have children.
Yipeh KIA Mother Fecker!
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.08 13:20:00 -
[67]
Originally by: EvilPhog
a/s/l??
Agent/Security/Level ?
__
CSM candidates - quick reference cards
Don't be a social moron, read and vote after you decide !
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Thanos Draicon
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Posted - 2008.05.08 13:28:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
all parents equally seem to force their values onto their kids anyway so nothing would really change
You can't "force" sexuality on anyone, to be honest. A straight man that becomes *** or vise versa isn't developing new sexuality, he's just allowing himself to express an underlying sexuality that he previously did not. The same is true for women.
Personally, I think that a good way of describing this is through the Kinsey Scale.
Quote:
Who gets the call on what values are 'distorted' anyway? the same people who think it's perfectly moral for wives to be expected to stay indoors all day doing housework and be no more than a support for her husbands career, by any chance?
Agreed. I don't think that the government should be interfering with marriage in any way.
Originally by: EvilPhog
Perfect opportunity for me to plug the 'GLBTA' channel. :)
As to the discussion, gah!
Out of curiosity, are straight people allowed in there? I wouldn't mind discussing any of my theories but I'm definitely not into guys. 
--------------- Originally by: CCP Prism X
Hey I have an idea:
"Let's not endure any more of your spam for the weekend!"
Enjoy your time away from our forums.
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Zetjur Jilnou
Rapid Deployment Industries
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Posted - 2008.05.08 13:31:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Devoras2
It is NO human right for any person in this world regrdless of sexuality to have children.
Quite right! I have nothing against *** couples adopting, however I do feel that before they can be told no, people who intend on forcing religous beliefs upon their children and well, frankly, stupid people, should be denied the right before *** couples. If the concern is the quality of life for the child, there can be far worse things than having *** parents. Let's make bringing up a child into a religion illegal first.
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EvilPhog
Amarr
Art of War
Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2008.05.08 14:00:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: EvilPhog
a/s/l??
Agent/Security/Level ?
Damn geeks haha.
And yes, everyone is welcome in the GLBTA channel but the topics of discussion can sometimes get a little... fruity? Might not feel 100% comfortable hehe. But most of the time it's just talking the usual *** things. :)
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Slade Trillgon
Siorai Iontach
Brotherhood of the Spider
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Posted - 2008.05.08 16:03:00 -
[71]
I suggest all that say *** individuals should not adopt children need to start adopting children. Since you all seem to believe that *** individuals can not do it then you all better pick up the slack.
I mean if you are selfish enough to not allow ***s to adopt then it is your social resposibility to pick up the slack. Typical Christian propaganda without any action on their own parts. Sounds like typicall hypocracy.
Mr Annoing said it best earlier...
Originally by: annoing
Edited by: annoing on 07/05/2008 17:17:04
Originally by: Kyanzes
Why would I be upset? A lot of these people will never have their own children, so the question partly solves itself.
For a few dollars and they can go to the third-world country of their choice and buy the baby. Just like straights really. Oh, and adopting unwanted children and offering them a loving home with a well rounded enviroment ... oh again, just like straights. Failing to notice a difference here so far, how about you?
Quote:
Homosexual people basically got everything they wanted - in western countries - and look what the outcome is: they want others' children now.
Really? Everything they want? You mean they have managed to find true equality in a society that doesnt judge a person on their race, colour, creed and sexuality/ They have done well havent they? The 'others' children they want are the ones that no one else seems to want .. maybe you have room at your house for all these poor unfortunate, unwanted children?
Quote:
Religion should not be forced on anyone in my very personal opinion.
No as long as you can force your rancid sick little fascist ways on people thats enough to satisfy you isnt it?
Quote:
You just basically called fascists all people in such countries in the world that don't allow homosexual individuals to adpot children. How lame is that?
No, I basically called you a fascist because you are one. As for all those wonderful in-tolerant people in all of those wonderful in-tolerant countries, by showing them that tolerance is, in itself, a wonderful ideal maybe we can help them change their in-tolerant ways? When you show people something wonderful, like equality, they invariably want it for themselves.
Please stop your stupidity now, because I can assure you, you have lost this argument and all you can do is make yourself an even bigger target for ridicule.
Slade
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Kastar
Paragon Horizons
THORN Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.08 20:19:00 -
[72]
It doesn't have to do with fascism or religion per se.
I'm completely atheist and firmly detest most forms of religion or any form of extremism because of obvious reasons.
From the same background though, I do NOT want homosexuals to have the same rights as the biological couple has. This has nothing to do with an aversity or hatred towards them, I just prefer to think along biological lines as that's often the most simple and straightforward way to think, even if it's not an 100% certainty as I'm sure many homosexuals are decent people and/or potential parents.
Fact is that from my experience many young g@ys are more or es to be put in the extremist category in one form or another... Before you all grab somthing to shoot me... I mean that many of them actually use their different nature as a form of immature protest and in that same way try to gain the same rights as other more accepted lifestyles, without actually having the same interest in the core of the matter, being the adoption or raising a child.
I also don't feel that everyone should be treated as "normal' (forgive me my wording) or be accepted if different... Society is already difficult enough and I don't believe it's even feasible to have all options. I mean, I also don't think it's fair that a person that's only half as smart as me but looks better earns 3 time as much as me... but that's the way the cookie crumbles. Society isn't fair and and it won't be fair. People have to draw certain lines and this is were I drew mine.
In short... I agree with them being married whatsoever as marriage is a artificial institute. I don't find it normal that they all suddenly want to start raising families and get kids. Cut the crap about convention... even if not 100% natural per se... biological and practical co÷peration between man and wife is the way it evolved mainly (mind the mainly please) and the single way it should be in my eyes.
To finish my plea (not gonna argue any further as some do in here, OP asked opinion so he gets mine), I don't have anything against homosexuals. I do have problems with modern day homosexuals rubbing their homosexuality in the eyes of anyone that can hear it and striving for equal rights on this part where they are proud to be different on other parts.
Homosexuality has eveolved bigtime during history and is more a fashion statement nowadays then a way of life. My problem lies in the first.
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Kastar
Paragon Horizons
THORN Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.08 20:28:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Kastar on 08/05/2008 20:30:39
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
all parents equally seem to force their values onto their kids anyway so nothing would really change
This I find intriguing. I'm a dad of 2 young kids. Can't make up out of your text whether you're a parent yourself, but looking around me with a healthy dose of relativating and sound thinking.. I think the main problem with raising kids is that many people do not raise them if you catch my drift. Certain values will require some forcing, others won't. I also started out with the idea of being not too strict, but you would be surprised how many factors are beyond your control. Some things will need to be steered and that sometimes requires 'forcing'.
I also worked with kids of all ages up to 12-14 and it's astonishing of how many of them really 'suffer' consequences in their behaviour because of not being told certain things or because of simply being left to their own thing by muppet people pretending to be parents.
EDIT: this obviously doesn't count for the matter of the OP Let's not go in there, but I think we all agree that you can't force sexuality
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Kastar
Paragon Horizons
THORN Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.08 20:37:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
though it IS dangerous waters to be going in (allowing *** couples to adopt), it's really a subjective matter. Who gets the call on what values are 'distorted' anyway? the same people who think it's perfectly moral for wives to be expected to stay indoors all day doing housework and be no more than a support for her husbands career, by any chance?
Heh, I read a lot of clichTs here, sorry 
I'm a guy and would be glad to get the chance to stay at home taking care of the house and kids and whatever if the wife can bring in enough bucks at the end of the month. That's unfortunately not the case, so we both work our asses of, running behind the carrot held before us by capitalism
and dude.. if one of both earns enough to make that possible, you are a fool for not taking the chance to raise your family as you want it. If not you're temporarily condemned to running around back and forth to family members, nurseries, crFches and other instances. I'm not saying it's not worth it, just that it's sheer folly that in nowadays society you wouldn't grab the chance...
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Coahim Madden
eXceed Inc.
eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.05.08 22:05:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Devoras2
It is NO human right for any person in this world regrdless of sexuality to have children.
Well let's ban adopting for heterosexuals too then?
I don't see why homosexuals shouldn't have the same rights as heterosexuals in regards to adopting based on that argument at all.
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mamolian
Eternity INC.
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Posted - 2008.05.08 23:43:00 -
[76]
Really interesting to sit back and watch western society's tolerance increase over time.. Don't quote me.. but I understand the UK now has partnership laws in place for homosexuals.. and I've heard they are introducing a similar framework here in Ireland. From what I understand it does not involve adoption at all, but its a step in the right direction. Rather large shift in 30 ish years when you think about it.. It was only legalised here in Ireland in 1981.. To *really* put it into perspective.. they only legalised condoms in 1980
Give it 10 years and the majority of western countries should be a lot closer to The Netherlands, Spain and Canada's example.
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Royaldo
Gallente
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.08 23:56:00 -
[77]
the what? "Neo-Communist Party". Thats a great translation. I wonder what you vote.
As for the children, i think they will have other **** to worry about.
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Thorliaron
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.05.09 01:24:00 -
[78]
Americans say no becuase they are all insanly insecure about their sexuality although they love going to the gym together, showering together and watching greased up muscle men wrestle.
Europeans say why not because basically they are not fussed, i mean if ireland allow civil marriges between homosexuals then the world really has moved on.
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Terianna Eri
Amarr
Scrutari
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Posted - 2008.05.09 01:27:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Thorliaron
Americans say no becuase they are all insanly insecure about their sexuality although they love going to the gym together, showering together and watching greased up muscle men wrestle.
Europeans say why not because basically they are not fussed, i mean if ireland allow civil marriges between homosexuals then the world really has moved on.
There is a disturbing amount of truth to this 
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Thanos Draicon
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Posted - 2008.05.09 01:46:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Terianna Eri
Originally by: Thorliaron
Americans say no becuase they are all insanly insecure about their sexuality although they love going to the gym together, showering together and watching greased up muscle men wrestle.
Europeans say why not because basically they are not fussed, i mean if ireland allow civil marriges between homosexuals then the world really has moved on.
There is a disturbing amount of truth to this
Speaking as an American...yeah.
--------------- Originally by: CCP Prism X
Hey I have an idea:
"Let's not endure any more of your spam for the weekend!"
Enjoy your time away from our forums.
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Raymond Sterns
Utopian Research I.E.L.
The ENTITY.
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Posted - 2008.05.09 03:04:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Raymond Sterns on 09/05/2008 03:04:59
Originally by: Thanos Draicon
Originally by: Terianna Eri
Originally by: Thorliaron
Americans say no becuase they are all insanly insecure about their sexuality although they love going to the gym together, showering together and watching greased up muscle men wrestle.
Europeans say why not because basically they are not fussed, i mean if ireland allow civil marriges between homosexuals then the world really has moved on.
There is a disturbing amount of truth to this
Speaking as an American...yeah.
I'm European by blood and find 2 men kissing disgusting, although 2 women not so much. It's not a matter of being insecure or not. Just as some people find bugs appetizing, other people don't.
I don't doubt there's people who are just how you describe them, but saying the X country does this because Y country has more Z for A is just going back to step one with discriminative finger-pointing.
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Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers
Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.05.09 03:18:00 -
[82]
Thank you for confirming that some people are idiots.
Of course they should have the same rights, denying any group of people the same rights a any other is the idiocy here.
Black Hand.
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Thorliaron
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.05.09 03:20:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Raymond Sterns
Edited by: Raymond Sterns on 09/05/2008 03:04:59
Originally by: Thanos Draicon
Originally by: Terianna Eri
Originally by: Thorliaron
Americans say no becuase they are all insanly insecure about their sexuality although they love going to the gym together, showering together and watching greased up muscle men wrestle.
Europeans say why not because basically they are not fussed, i mean if ireland allow civil marriges between homosexuals then the world really has moved on.
There is a disturbing amount of truth to this
Speaking as an American...yeah.
I'm European by blood and find 2 men kissing disgusting, although 2 women not so much. It's not a matter of being insecure or not. Just as some people find bugs appetizing, other people don't.
I don't doubt there's people who are just how you describe them, but saying the X country does this because Y country has more Z for A is just going back to step one with discriminative finger-pointing.
i dont care what you are by blood, where do u currently reside
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Nerogk Shorn
Caldari
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.05.09 06:47:00 -
[84]
TBH, i don't really understand how religion has so much of a role in it. I mean one of the most Catholic nations in the world, Spain, has already done this. Homosexuals have full rights there. It's really about culture and open-mindedness. People are brought up thinking it's weird, that's the way they'll think. Kids believe what their told, hence the Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus, and even religions.
Teach kids to be open-minded and accepting, and they'll generally turn out that way. People need to stop acting like their ways of life and their cultures are the only ones out there, and that "others" are strange and unwelcome.
Sorry late night rambling... >_>
The Bulbasaur Wizard
D-F-A-A-B-A-A-S
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Atsuko Ratu
Caldari
VSP Corp.
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Posted - 2008.05.11 01:19:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Devoras2
Originally by: Benco97
You mention testing, what sort of tests would you do?
Testing if over time children in homosexual couples has the same quality of life and the same good upbringing as they were in a straight couple. The annoyance of the law is it doesnt take the childs good and well being into consideration imo.
Even the studies made on this issue are weakly based:
1. The few studies made is not representative for the whole group of homosexual persons. This is cause the studies is based on participants through organizations and other private connections. One of the studies concludes like this:
" There are no way to tell the size of participants involved since we cant tell the percentage of those that heard about this study. The size of the targeted group (homosexuals) is unknown and what kind of characteristics they represent. The study cannot be considered representative" (Wyers -87)
2. Many of the studies doesnt analyze the effect of the targeted study group (homosexuals) and the control group (heterosexuals)on how they are different from each other besides the term -sexual. In many of the studies you find highly educated homosexuals and virtually non-existent lower educated ones. So is it the effect of education OR sexual preference?
3. Almost all of the studies involved are to small to find and target the small differences between study group and control group. The chance of wrongly concluding that there is "no difference to support otherwise" is around 70-80% when trying to measure a spesific ability.
4. Alot of the studies are focused on to find that there are no difference between homosexuals with children versus heterosexuals with children. The worse the studies are proceeded and executed, the higher the chance of a worse outcome.
So if homosexuals were found to be far better parents (and thus, their children live far better lives) than that of heterosexual parents, the logical conclusion would be to restrict the parenting rights of the heterosexuals, amirite?
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Dorian 'Gray
Gallente
Ramdon Industries corporation
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Posted - 2008.05.11 10:42:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Dorian ''Gray on 11/05/2008 10:42:15
The Church/religion. Why would any Christian church true to its teachings allow same sex marriages ? and why would *** people want to get a religious union? surely this is just be a sham as it goes against alot of what christian values stand for(or other religions for that matter).
In our lifetime those who kill
The newsworld hands them stardom
And these are the ways
On which I was raised......
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JAQUE ALERA
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Posted - 2008.05.11 16:44:00 -
[87]
I find the tolerance and understanding refreshing in this thread. People have a right to live their life as they see fit. If they find happiness with a same sex partner so be it. If they meet the stringent requirements to adopt then they should be allowed too.
Those of you who find ***s repulsive or think they shouldn't be allowed equal rights I wish you the experience of being a minority, be it a belief system, race, or socio-economic class. May you persevere and bring about positive change for what you believe in or who you are, not what the majority thinks you should be.
Never forget the golden rule of do unto others. That is the guiding principle to a honorable life.
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Xrak
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.05.11 17:20:00 -
[88]
Originally by: JAQUE ALERA
Never forget the golden rule of do unto others. That is the guiding principle to a honorable life.
This ^^
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Jago Kain
Amarr
Ramm's RDI
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Posted - 2008.05.11 19:47:00 -
[89]
Anyone actually know any same-sex couples with kids?
I am friends with a female couple who have been living together for years, before marrying when UK law was changed to allow this, and recently have been trying for a child with the assistance of the NHS.
They've had a bit of flak from colleagues at work and the odd member of the "moral majority", but most folk that know them are happy at the prospect of them being parents.
I have no doubt that when the little bundle of joy arrives, he/she will be part of a loving, supportive household, where both parents want to be parents and will want to do they best they can for their offspring.
I feel that wanting to do the best for your child and providing love, support and a stable home environment are what is truly important. Sexuality isn't really an issue and neither should it be.
My parents are straight, but it didn't stop me being bullied like a ginger step-child as a youth (funny as that is what I am ) for any number of things; wearing glasses, being a swot, not being any good at sport, having a southern accent and going to school in Murkeyside etc., none of which were anything to do with wether my parents were straight or not.
How folk treat their kids is important. Sexuality is not.
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The game will never be over, because we're keeping the meme alive. |
Atsuko Ratu
Caldari
VSP Corp.
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Posted - 2008.05.11 21:24:00 -
[90]
I think it's ironic, how people against the issue point at "studies" that should be done to see if ***s are "acceptable" parents.
I mean, it's not like we should be focused on the thousands of children that are abused sexually each day, or the million kids in foster homes. I'm sure they lead happy, normal lives.
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