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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.07 23:05:00 -
[1]
 Originally by: Shin Ra
763 kills / 23 losses
Geeze, do you realize how bad that is? Last coad post from a corp I can't remember i'm-camping-geminate-and-im-elite crowd nailed about 500 kills in about 2 weeks camping a gate an hour or two every day. I think you were you there much longer. Removing pods etc puts you at 489 kills. Had my money on 1500 kills. You do disappoint.
But you were fun. Alt was on a few of your battleship losses. I didn't lose anything myself. Some of my corp members had a blast playing around with you. The only corp losses of any note was due to folks that simply didn't check intel.
When we did organize something either we couldn't get a fight or we'd pop one or two of your heavier ships. If you notice that a signifiant proportion of your losses were from non Smashkill alliances. Generally gangs red to us are in gang, organized, and looking for a fight when they swing through our space. This shows that you can be killed without much difficulty by someone that cares.
Congratulations on killing those that can't be bothered to watch the intel channel or form a proper gang.
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.07 23:26:00 -
[2]
Originally by: fugazii
Totaly agree, all the hardcore pvp'rs go sit at pos's for hours in hope of getting into a huge lagfest of a fight.
Then you missed out an epic fight that folks were jazzed over.
The first 30 minutes weren't bad. Some module lag but manageable. Some didn't have many issues. Tons of pew pew. That many ships wouldn't have gone down if lag were that bad. I shot a bunch and my dread went down fast when it was primaried.
The last 30 minutes got bad for some of us. I don't have a clue how my carrier got popped. I couldn't lock anything. Was descynched. Took like 20 minutes to lag back in. Couldn't see anything. Died somehow. But for many it wasn't this bad.
Either way I wouldn't be scared of a bit of lag for an epic fight.
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.08 03:25:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Angor
And to smashkill, i dont know where all the bitterness comes from. Its not like we sit there and ONLY engage ppl who dont check intel and travel on their own (although carebear zidrine drops are always nice).
I wouldn't say its bitterness as much as an attempt to address the propaganda in this thread. Read the last thread from some corp/alliance that camped bwf and was all impressed by the stats. The same thing happened. We gave the same response. They thumped their chest. We can't remember their name a week later.
Originally by: Angor
...every member of the Burn Eden "team" is an important member of the gang, loosing ships isnt really acceptable even if we kill 50 of your guys in the process - its still classed as an unacceptable loss as we're then an "important" man down.
Thats the thing. Ships aren't important. The will to fight and risk is. I'd rather fight with someone that fights with no fear than someone who frets over fittings and losses. I'd rather have someone participate regardless of experience, isk, or skillpoints.
If you wish to have an elitist attitude, fine. I'm not saying its better or worse. Just don't hold us to your standards and we won't hold you to ours.
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.08 04:33:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Wesley Baird
The amount of naysayers in this thread about how your alliances didn't care about them, shows that regardless of having no long term impact, that while they were there, they annoyed the living snot out of you.
A cloaked frig in a system annoys us. Yes, some of those that have no clue how to deal with a gate camp may have been annoyed. For many it always is a spot to have some fun.
Most of the posts in this thread are countering the nonsense (admittedly on both sides).
Originally by: Angor
the ships themselves arent as important as the people flying them (unless expensive fitted) but without the ship the pod is useless. You cant maintain a extended contract in deep in hostile terratory and loose ships only to have to fly 30 odd fekin jumps to get another ship and get back into the fight.
Logistics are a problem. There are ways to solve this. A small pos in a random system without sov set and a few carrier jumps to supply it.
The blackops ship with recons/stealth bombers were designed expressly for the issues you describe.
Most of the time was spent in bwf which is 2 system from empire and like a dozen from Jita.
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.08 07:57:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Yuki Li
Take it like champs and get over it guys, BE have a huge ego, no need to take it personally.
Its not personal. Mostly the annoyance with having to explain this whenever someone decides to camp bwf/etc. I think we should get a form we can copy and paste and tick off the response.
Originally by: Yuki Li
Anyway, they were in your space, its upto you to get rid of them, not up to them to provide you with fair fights.
They're not a risk to anything. They don't threaten anything. And no one is interesting in being logged on like BE is for 23/7. BE has well known tactics which mean the counter tactics are well known.
In cases like this its not economical to "remove" them by devoting resource to camp the gates. The best is simply to deny BE kills. This has worked well before when BE has tried to camp gates in warzones. They can't get ganks, get bored, and move on.
If carebears are going to jump like lemmings into a 23/7 gate camp then props to whoever wants to camp that gate. No one has any interest in helping those that can't pay attention to the intel channel or follow basic 0.0 procedures.
The general response is: "let them die".
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.08 15:39:00 -
[6]
Edited by: *****zilla on 08/05/2008 15:46:56
Originally by: lecrotta
So as far as having no idea is concerned your totally wrong, as i personally got sick of losing ships to gain space others actually profited from and joined BE then left for another high spec pvp corp.
So we agree that we were playing by different rules? That no one "owned" anyone? BE played their game, we played ours.
Your comment of fighting so that others could profit interests me. This suggests that you couldn't handle losing ships period.
At a certain point if you choose to work together there will always be an imbalance. I'm not sure how BE is structured but are the isks for their contracts split evenly between the members? I'm sure I could find an imbalance somewhere in there.
The fact is that you didn't like to share nor wanted to risk losing ships. You went for high sec "pvp". Fine. We won't judge you by our standards if you don't judge us by yours.
Originally by: lecrotta
You forgot to mention that your fighting several hundred vs several hundred involves watching a frozen screen for most of the night, then waiting for a ship any ship to pop up on your overview and of course if that happens the module delay you get is also great fun.
You haven't played in a while. For the last fight it was the luck of the draw. Some module lag. Some people lagged out like myself after 30-45 minutes. For most it was workable.
For crazy high numbers in local it can be unplayable. However good fights exist.
Originally by: lecrotta
PS: When i flew with BE i fought every night and with my new nano corp i do the same, can you make the same claims with your epic uber fleet ops?.. no i did not think so
Epic fleet ops aren't common. Otherwise they wouldn't be epic. We fly nano gangs as does everyone else. There are lots of fights to be had. You're not doing anything unique or special.
Originally by: Angor
Smash/Roadkill honestly, even if this thread is a "chest beating" thread as you call it, with the utterly pathetic and bitter replies i've seen here
*Sigh* We're repeatedly insulted with smack and you don't expect us to respond?
This fight between us is entirely in the forums as there is none to be had on the battlefield.
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.08 15:49:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Porgy
drone lands?
Dead as MATT POSSUM?
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.08 16:09:00 -
[8]
Originally by: lecrotta
It looks to me like their game involved killing lots of you and not dieing much while your game involved not killing them and dieing a lot.
Are you telling me that a gang in voice coms with scouts and cloaks and looking for pvp can pop those that aren't organized nor looking for a fight? News at 11! This is revoluntionary!
We're talking about an organized gang that is known for minimizing risk. Of course their k/d ratio should be high. In our opinion let them trim the fat. Their results were disappointing. Either they weren't active or aggressive as we thought or we've less fat than thought.
Either way this is nothing new. This isn't unique. This isn't special.
Originally by: lecrotta
And as far as losing ships is concerned your right i do not like it but then again who does but at least with the guys im with now and when i was with BE i lost my ship because of my mistakes
Being afraid of a lag bomb shouldn't stop you from playing. You can choose to fight in a big fight or not based on if your computer can handle it. It doesn't make sense to ignore half the game based on something that might strike once a month.
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.09 18:38:00 -
[9]
Edited by: *****zilla on 09/05/2008 18:42:50
Originally by: USN CVN72
Burn Eden is now complaining about getting blobbed?
(technically either an alt or a rabid fan)
I for one feel outblobbed when I ignore intel channels and jump a t1 hauler in with no tank nor scouts. I might be carrying a few bil worth of mins but I'm just looking for a fair fight!
Everyone blobs. The only disagreement is about the numbers. Bring lots of ships and you blob. Bring the right ships (ie logistics + webbers) and someone will feel out blobbed.
Originally by: USN CVN72
... and prove you did the same crap as everyone else is doing.
But they're special and unique snowflakes!
Originally by: lecrotta
... <weak smack>...
Haven't you discovered our secret yet? The FVCKAS war machine is powered by 100% pure COAD angst! We need moar moar moar!!!!
If COAD doesn't have a NAST thread on the first page, we'll disappear!
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.09 19:14:00 -
[10]
Originally by: BLOOD THIRSTY
Now yes there are times when a lone target comes and it dies to a "gank". They are not going to let
someone autopilot through.
These were the vast majority of their kills.
Originally by: BLOOD THIRSTY
NOW comes the good part. Having watched them multiple times,
Agree that they've gotten their tactics down pat. However much of the kills I watched were unorganized folks being ganked or flying solo. Often a few would jump in. It might seem to be a gang. Most often it would be ppl flying individually without a gang or voice coms and getting the expected results.
Originally by: BLOOD THIRSTY
The point I am trying to make is that Burn Eden can take a 5 man gang and engage an empire.
Maybe bore an empire. The primary difference between what they do and what thousands of others do is they play often, have their tactics down pat, and make repeated COAD posts.
During the time that BE were in Geminate there were dozens of other gangs flying nanos/cloakers/etc. They received about the same amount of attention as BE. They killed many of the same people. An adhoc group would often be formed to go after the hostiles. The hostiles had the same affect: not much.
The primary difference was that BE is more patient for kills and makes CAOD posts when finished. They seem to leave a mistaken impression of their effect.
Originally by: BLOOD THIRSTY
They are good, choice of tactics is personal. No one tactic is better than anyone elses, the only difference is the pilots, and they have some of the best.
No doubt they are good. However they're overrated. They make smacktastic posts about stats that are obvious to everyone. If they wanted to talk about a campaign and give themselves a pat on the back, fine.
These posts are mostly because they seem to feel that if they don't talk themselves up they'll be forgotten and won't receive contracts. This isn't a COAD issue. These types of posts belong in the "Sell Orders" forums.
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.09 21:26:00 -
[11]
Yes. BE systematically remove most any risk.
Einherjar Rising was the group we were trying to think of. Remote rep bs gangs in bwf. The threads then were nearly identical to the one now.
Dealing with cloakers is boring and not worth the effort. Best way to deal with cloakers that are sometimes afk is to ignore them and bypass the system.
Originally by: FinrodFelagund
I've never seen somone attempt at something and fail so hard in my life.
Eh, wasn't that bad. Just someone in the grips of propaganda fever.
Originally by: Bashiri
OK this thread still alive?
No.
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.10 17:23:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Darineah Charach
I won't deny i got irritated every time some idiot said in alliance they were getting ganked by BE in BWF. My opinion was if you can type once it's over, you can read it before it starts.
Yep. There are a multitude of tools to avoid being ganked. If pilots fly solo and shun the tools then they shall receive no benefit or help from the alliance.
Originally by: Darineah Charach
As Angor said, part of the reason you keep it small is to maximise the returns to individual pilots. All good, i'd love to be on the receiving end of some of those isks myself,
You wouldn't want to spend the time camping those gates that BE does. If you ratted as much as they spend on a gate you could turn a bil or two a week.
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.14 14:44:00 -
[13]
Originally by: posteroid
... self respect and pride are also a big factor and nobody can tell me that its not a issue.
This assumes the alliance cares. Pride? I know I wasn't the only one munching on popcorn and watching blues get popped on the bwf gate while calling out commentry in the intel channel. Watching whoever is camping bwf makes for a great show.
Simple fact is that these alliance members you speak of could care less for those that can't check intel and get popped at a known gate camp. The few that do whine are likely to have been popped and will be told that perhaps 0.0 isn't the place for them. Quite a few alliance members are rooting for whoever holds the gate because it thins the herd by shooting blues that we cannot.
If what BE does was unique then it might have strategic value. However even in the last campaign BE was one of a few groups camping gates somewhere in Geminate. You sorta have to take a number. The only thing that keeps the BE name alive is the forums.
If it weren't for these cries for attention on the forums few would remember you. That is your legacy.
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.14 16:18:00 -
[14]
Originally by: posteroid
While your legacy is one of getting owned by 8 man gangs
It isn't exactly news that a small group can enage a larger group successfully when they control the situation. Many out there do this every day successfully all across Eve. BE isn't a unique and special snowflake.
I refuse to help those that won't help themselves. Some folks get ganked because they won't pay attention to intel channels. Or they think they can pvp and leroy into a known gate camp. I care how?
Originally by: posteroid
... you had to click the accept corp/alliance recruitment button and everything .
Actually I've fought in most of the conquests in Geminate. I've been involved in nearly every station that was taken for one side or the other. For the stations that we've put up I've donated time and isk when asked.
If you wish to smack talk, it helps to have some sort of basis.
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.14 18:17:00 -
[15]
Originally by: posteroid
your self acclaimed contributions to your alliance are even less earth shattering in the big picture.
I'm fine with this. I've participated for the benefit of the group and have had fun. If someone is acting solo and gets ganked I could care less about them.
Both of our organizations work the same in this manner. The difference is that it is easier to trim the fat with a small corp where everyone can be monitored.
Originally by: posteroid
...and the surviving sheep bleat about how they were not eaten and how lucky...erm uber that makes them.
Yet when we pop you all I've heard is whining that you shouldn't have died.
This is nothing but two hunters pulling down the weak from each others packs. A larger organization will obviously have more soft targets. This isn't unique. Nor is this special.
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.14 18:51:00 -
[16]
Edited by: *****zilla on 14/05/2008 19:02:02
Originally by: posteroid
You do not have weak targets you are a weak target and while we may lose the occasional ship the fact is virtually all our losses come from being outnumbered, while our kills can be from solo kills or gangs that outnumber us.
Nearly any pvp group can say the same when they can choose the time and place to engage.
Originally by: posteroid
Im looking forwards to the debut of our recordings on your TS cos your fc's did not sound like they did not care about the losses or the gangs they put together (and lots to us) were a lot more than just solo muppets. Il send you a copy.
So you admit that BE meta games? How can you be taken seriously when you must listen to hostile voice coms before engaging? Do you enjoy systematically removing all risk?
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with meta gaming. Only that removing nearly all risk doesn't give much to brag about.
You realize that anyone can fc? That most engaging you were random gangs thrown together? That they were told not to be there as we had a war on else where? That those that did engage were told what they needed and how to engage yet leroy'd anyways?
If someone acted solo and was ganked, I could care less. If someone acted as part of a group, had the initiative to form a gang and try a tactic, more power to them.
Originally by: Ghaelsto Kakram
Guess you missed the gazillion posts about BE'd downtime TS invitations.
And subpar smack. Mustn't forget this.
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.14 19:17:00 -
[17]
Originally by: posteroid
... if you actually have a plan and put together a fleet to implement it and fail you claim it was a leeroooy gang and you "didn't want those ships anyway"
Generally a leroy gang is one in which even the members realize that the current plan is bad.
It was likely what you remembered most as if we fielded anything else we couldn't get cloakers to engage us. Admittedly I didn't watch most of the fights but this is usually how it works out versus cloakers.
The one time I engaged with my alt we knew it was a bad idea. We didn't have the right ships nor the right setups. Someone had done something silly on their own and we bailed them out against better judgement. Got a few bs kills, and lots of smack for the effort.
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.14 19:25:00 -
[18]
Originally by: posteroid
Bow your head and worship us then.
You spend entirely too much time avoiding death for our tastes. For as much time as you play more kills could be achieved. Yet this would involve risk.
When I've talked to folks that have flown with you I've heard the tactics described as mind numbingly boring. I've never argued that your tactics aren't effective. Only that the elimination of risk also removes any respect for BE.
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.14 21:29:00 -
[19]
Originally by: posteroid
What you and others fail to realize is that BE use cloaks mostly to avoid having to jump from safe to safe while in hostile space thus avoiding getting probed and blobbed, now there are other reasons but this is the main one and it effects us negatively in actual combat by reducing lock time.
I'm sure any titan pilot out there would use the same reasoning.
At the end of the day cloaks allow you to pick your targets with zero risk. Enagage when you wish against easy targets. Avoid combat against what could kill you.
What we get are entire gangs/fleets that are cloaked off of a gate. Tacklers, dictors, webbers, dps. Combined with a scout in the next system anyone jumping through the gate must take a risk while you do not.
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.14 21:35:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Kera Delacour
Don't forget the TS spies.
Very true. Gotta have TS spies or how else would you know when to alt-tab from WoW to Eve?
Best to be afk and cloaked then take any chances.
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.14 21:59:00 -
[21]
Edited by: *****zilla on 14/05/2008 22:00:13
Originally by: posteroid
NO i do not think that titan pilots can warp between safes to avoid getting probed like conventional ships (they are hardly the most nimble of chappies) tbh so its not the same.
Actually titans can warp from safe to safe; just like any other ship. No rational super cap pilot would do this as a cloak offers a vastly superior alternative.
I would agree with cloaks being a balanced option besides jumping safe spots except for two issues. One is that cloaks have no chance of being probed. And two they make safe spots obsolete when you can use an off grid sling, warp back to the gate, then cloak.
Cloaks allow you to sit off a gate and engage when the risk is perceived to be minimal. Cloaks remove risks for super caps just as they do for gangs of tacklers/dps.
Originally by: posteroid
Warping from safe to safe until a valid target/targets arrive would stop probers from catching us just the same but would be a bit of a pain tbh but is also risk free.
Mostly chance based. There is a small window where you can be probed. Of course this is unacceptable when cloaks offer no risk and the convenience of being staged at a sniper spot and already aligned.
Originally by: posteroid
PS: We sometimes have spies we sometimes do not it depends on the alliance but then name me a alliance that does not....
Reasonable enough. Now where do I signup to get my spy into your alliance and whats is the logon info to listen to your voice coms (and not just guest)? No?
So you admit to meta gaming and to using spies to reduce risk? Is this something to be proud of? Seems to me that once you cross this line then pvp becomes who has the better spies. Since small corps will have fewer spies then small corps must be better right?
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.14 22:28:00 -
[22]
Originally by: posteroid
do not forget for doing so we cannot lock for 10 seconds after dropping cloak
Scouts help in giving a heads up whats going through the gate. This is also what disposable out of corp dictors/tacklers are for.
Originally by: posteroid
...and also have a much slower lock time and for a BS thats a loooong time.
Countered with a <finger quotes>"Sensor Booster"</finger quotes>. Anything that doesn't pop from the tacklers should be easy to lock for the battleships.
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