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Carriers and moms with real pilots instead of fighter?

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Snowcrow Minmatar Lyonesse. KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.08 11:32:00 - [1] what if carriers couldn't spit out fighters and therefore creating lag anymore, but isntead carrying pilots who have to launch the ships inside a carrier? let's say, pods can dock in a mom or a carrier(e.g. 10 pods in a carrier, 20 in a mom), the carrier jumps to it's destination and the players launch directly from the carrier. you could limit the size of launchable ships, so a carrier could only launch frig- and destroyer sized ships (Assault frigs, Interceptors, Stealth Bombers, Interdictors etc.). when launching from a carrier, the pod stays inside the carrier, when your pilot gets blown up, he will be back inside the carrier to launch the next ship. while a player is in "carrier mode" he cannot leave the system where the carrier is in. (maybe there could be an exception for cyno frigs who can fly anywhere as long as they stay inside the jumprange of the carrier). the frigates launched from the carrier could get a damage bonus (lets say 50% more damage but 25% bigger signature radius due to remote controlling, or 25% damge bonus, don't know what the right balance is here), those ships could deal out a lot of damage and your fleet would be able to operate deep inside enemy territory. Assault frigs might get a special bonus while in "carrier mode" would be a great new role for them. the advantage would be, that no corp or alliance can just blob systems with 20, 30, 100+ carriers, because a carrier without pilots is useless, and it would afford a lot more teamwork (which is a good thing i believe). And in big fleet battles, the fight isn't over if you lose your ship and are 20+ jumps away from home, you can get a new one immediatly (as long as the carriers have enough ships left). it also would make black ops much more interesting (if they get a little bit more jump range), because you can add recon ships and black ops itself to your fleet if you want and there will be a lot more tactical options for our FCs, an example: your battleship fleet goes to a hostile system, and is fighting the enemy. you jump a carrier in and those pilots who lose there ships warp to the carrier, dock, get in a frig sized ship with carrier bonus, undock and rejoin the battle. same is possible for defence situations. of course motherships would need a new advantage, because almost every corp can get more than one carrier for every ten pilots. additional advantages for the mothership could be: - mom can repair ships while docked. - mom could give additional bonusses to the ships in "carrier mode" - mom could be able to launch a limited amount of cruiser sized ships. i think this idea could make fights much funnier, bring more teamwork to the game, add lots of new tactical options, make carriers real cool support ships and reduce lag. what do u think?
Blutreiter Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.05.08 12:34:00 - [2] Originally by: Snowcrow Assault frigs might get a special bonus while in "carrier mode" would be a great new role for them. That actually made me curious. For the upcoming AF patch... that would be interesting to implement. Making using AFs in combination with carriers/motherships more rewarding. Maybe a special gangbonus for AFs with a carrier as a squadleader? Cogito ergo boom - I think i'll blow sht up* Originally by: CCP Explorer I know we have said this before, but this time we really mean itÖ
Pliauga	Posted - 2008.05.08 12:41:00 - [3] ... OK... I think I like it... But just implement this as an optional feature first. T2 fighters maybe? Maybe let moms do both. So the mom pilot would not be defenceless if cought alone.
Snowcrow Minmatar Lyonesse. KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.08 12:52:00 - [4] yeah optional would be an idea, will be hard to balance this all, but i'm glad that this is not my job :p i think the coolest thing about it is, that new players can be very useful for fleet battles, cause assault frigs and/or other t2 frigates. can be trained in a short amount of time. another option would be, that players can control fighters(they would need a boost ofc), but i like the idea of implementing frig sized ships more. you get so much more options when you are carrying stealth bombers, interceptors AFs etc with you.
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.08 13:00:00 - [5] Very interesting... I like it. May need some more fleshing out, but keep working on it. Mining, Hacking and Archeology Mini Games http://oldforums.eveonline.com/? a=topic&threadID=7463
Blutreiter Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.05.08 13:00:00 - [6] Actually, forget about directly controlling fighters, because you'd need to be directly docked at the carrier, and balancing that out would be quite a can of worms to sort out. Carrier bonus for special ships in special squadformations, that would be almost the same. Now what I personally really want to see fixed would be properly working cloning vats on motherships and titans, so you can really respawn at a mothership, grab a new AF from the hangar bay and go outside again, guns blazing. It should already be in the game, it just needs to be fixed and worked on a bit. (maybe let AFs use less hangarspace on carriers and motherships, so they make ideal replacement crafts because you can carry more spares?) Cogito ergo boom - I think i'll blow sht up* Originally by: CCP Explorer I know we have said this before, but this time we really mean itÖ
Washell Olivaw	Posted - 2008.05.08 13:41:00 - [7] What happens if: The carrier pilot loses connection? To the people on board when the carrier blows? To the ships on board when the carrier blows? To the people/ships on board that get hi-jacked when the pilot switches alliance, possible during a war, and jumps to, for him friendly but for them enemy, territory? There are a couple dozen more of these scenarios and during development of the carriers, moms and titans CCP decided that docking on other players ships just brings more issues than that it pays off in gameplay enhancement. Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
Missuri	Posted - 2008.05.08 13:53:00 - [8] Originally by: Washell Olivaw What happens if: The carrier pilot loses connection? Answer: If the pilots are docked they are expulsed all together. Like the agression timer its a simple variable to set: "Wait until all pilots are outside then warp away". Originally by: Washell Olivaw To the people on board when the carrier blows? Answer: Same mechanism as if your ship is blowing up. You get expulsed but in a pod. So you would need to quit your ship. Just like the rats do when a ship is sinking, wouldn't that be freaky piratestyle? Originally by: Washell Olivaw To the ships on board when the carrier blows? Answer: They get destroyed just like a fighter is being destroyed. All Fighters are being destroyed anyway. Originally by: Washell Olivaw To the people/ships on board that get hi-jacked when the pilot switches alliance, possible during a war, and jumps to, for him friendly but for them enemy, territory? Answer: To do this you need to dock, at all costs. But then you simply add the role that the ship needs to be empty of any pilots before docking. Again a simple questionary: Docking_procedure(){ if (pilots are in ship) then deny docking; print_out("You cannot dock with your friends aboard, risking losing them in the docking ramp"); else dock;} The problem I only see is that eve has not been designed to allow flying a ship with 2 or more pods in hit.
Snowcrow Minmatar Lyonesse. KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.08 13:59:00 - [9] Originally by: Washell Olivaw What happens if: The carrier pilot loses connection? the carrier will stay at the savespot until everyone has left the ship. is someone is afk -> panic!, but thats part of the game, you should know who you carry inside your carrier! (the players can of course grab a ship before leaving the carrier. Originally by: Washell Olivaw To the people on board when the carrier blows? there will be a lot of pods inside the dictor bubble. that's part of the fun. Originally by: Washell Olivaw To the ships on board when the carrier blows? the same as today when a carrier has loaded ships in his bay. Originally by: Washell Olivaw To the people/ships on board that get hi-jacked when the pilot switches alliance, possible during a war, and jumps to, for him friendly but for them enemy, territory? bad luck, also part of the game. and to prevent that the carrier joins anopther corp just make a special right that allows a carrier pilot to let others dock -> if the pilot wants to change his corp, he has to revoke all rights. you can't stay inside the carrier when he loggs of that's not part of the idea, you only can use him as a transporter.
Missuri	Posted - 2008.05.08 14:02:00 - [10] Same ideas Mate great. /signed for the idea
Snowcrow Minmatar Lyonesse. KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.08 14:14:00 - [11] hehe, you were faster. oh another point would be that the carriers and moms have launch points: carrier can have 10 pilots and 10 launch points, mom can have 20 pilots and 25 launch points. (numbers are just an example) a frig uses 1 launch point, a cruiser 2 and a BC 3. so u can launch 10 frigs or 5 hacs from a carrier, 15 frigs and 5 hacs (or recons, hics etc.) or 2cmd ships and 18 frigs, or... from a mom
fertigo	Posted - 2008.05.08 16:51:00 - [12] Well i like the idea i would like to see a ms become more useful also i would like to see the bay being made bigger and it would be great if the people on board would not be in local as that would make sense in my opinion also i must say at the moment i find it sad that a ms costs like 15billion and a carrier only like 650million so you might as well buy 20 carriers and burn them in combat!!For 15billion i personally expect a little kick out of a ship and i agree the clone bay does not work properly which is sad. ms can be killed easy these days and a boost would help.I already know what many are gonna say about this topic especially those that cant afford a ms!!But still thanks for posts and maybe something will happen! another idea would be a cloaking generator where you could cloack your your fleet or a shield deflector system that can keep ships save for a while!
Ellaine TashMurkon CBC Interstellar	Posted - 2008.05.08 17:13:00 - [13] Hey but You can alreday have ships in a carrier, pick them and fly them.
Fador	Posted - 2008.05.08 17:16:00 - [14] /signed
Pliauga	Posted - 2008.05.09 04:51:00 - [15] Originally by: Fador Edited by: Fador on 08/05/2008 17:20:00 /signed ms should be like moving stations with pos shield around Easy now, we don't want to turn moms into uber solo wtfpwnmobiles. But I think this thread is going in the right direction. --- Originally by: Ellaine TashMurkon ... Yes, but we are talking about launching specific ship types, which would receive a specific bonus because of the fact that they are atached to the mom. --- I think launching stealth bombers would miss the point - they are meant for covert ops. This should be limited to assault frigs and maybe HACs. But I'd love to see Tech2 single player controled fighters.
Batolemaeus Caldari Batolemaeus Corp	Posted - 2008.05.09 05:31:00 - [16] Edited by: Batolemaeus on 09/05/2008 05:33:18 We actually had that topic in irc just yesterday i think. Changing carriers to truly become carriers. Carrying not only ships, but also people. So, in a battle, it could look like this: In preparation, people dock up with those carriers. They get towed in. They don't store their ship and then float around..they dock. Then, a cyno in the enemy system goes up, and the carriers jump, taking everyone who is docked with them. Upon arrival, they release everyone. Motherships could carry more people, and Titans probably offering more, like repairs (for damaged modules too) and some more advanced things..(production arrays in titans would be neat for on demand ammo supply. reprocessing arrays..titans being true mobile stations has been a dream i had for a long time now.) Yes, it would make they jump-portal ability of the titan less important. But not obsolete. Carriers would finally carry more than just drones and a few spare dictors. And a spaceship-nerds wet dream would come true.
Khandara Seraphim StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.05.09 05:45:00 - [17] The idea of massively buffing AFs to the point where they become fighter drones, but also making them reliant on a carrier to use these super powers is a pretty neat idea to make the AFs relevant again. AFs can stay as they are now but obtain a giant boost when deployed under the command of a carrier.
Blutreiter Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.05.09 08:51:00 - [18] Clone Vat Bay. Look it up in the item database. It can be fitted on motherships and titans. Rorquals too. :P Anyway, giving AFs a sensible advantage when deployed in carriersquads is one of the most interesting concepts I can see on the forums, apart from the common demands for webber resistance and increased afterburner thrust. Assault frigates already do considerable damage and usually have a huge tank compared to standard frigates. If you take into account that they need some slight balancing anyway to make them good choices for standard combat so they don't collect rust on some market, a carrier bonus shouldn't exactly be of offensive nature, since it might make them overpowered. Ideas in my head play with stuff like transportability (less size for AFs needed in hangars), recieving a bonus from remote repping from the carrier, increased agility, electronic warfare resistance (only half as effective and boosted sensor strength)... stuff like that. That would make sense and give AFs a very unique role. Also, it would make them really nice alternative fleet choices. Good against bigger targets or EW heavy groups. But the carrier will always be a fat target for the enemy. Anyway, it would massively increase usability of carriers and AFs at the same time and promote a different squadstyle and tactics. Cogito ergo boom - I think i'll blow sht up* Originally by: CCP Explorer I know we have said this before, but this time we really mean itÖ
Pliauga	Posted - 2008.05.10 06:56:00 - [19] Yes, the clone vats can be fitted, but these guys are complaining that it's not working properly. AFs need a boost, this looks like a sensible way to implement this. And I think this would bring a welcome addition to carriers and moms. And it would be good for fighting lag. Instead of having 25 AFs and a mom with 25 fighters, you would have a mom with 25 AFs (-25 fighters).
Solomunio Kzenig Amarr SPORADIC MOVEMENT	Posted - 2008.05.10 07:35:00 - [20] What about player controlled fighters? Make them T2 versions of Fighters, MoM/Carrier needs a module (Pod Fighter Transfer Station or some such fluff) that allows Pods to dock at the MoM/Carrier and then jump into a Pod Fighter the MoM/Carrier has in its Drone Bay. This T2 Fighter has higher resists and OFC needs player skills to fly (Maybe Spaceship Command Lvl5 and few few other pre-reqs; but make the pre-reqs relatively low to encourage newer players to be Fighter Pilots). Another possible feature would be the ability to carry a special class of anti BS/Capital torpedo, which might have a Damage bonus against Seiging/Tac reconfiguring Capital ships.
Nova Fox Gallente	Posted - 2008.05.10 13:28:00 - [21] they're called corvettes they where supposed to be in game some time ago but never happened, they are very basic frigates with lesser hp and no fittings, but with fighters assigned to them they where supposed to get bonuses to make it more 'figther' like. New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister
Pliauga	Posted - 2008.05.11 18:28:00 - [22] After putting some thought behind it I think these should be assault frigs, that would make carriers more of a support weapon as they were intended AND would boost AFs at the same time. Everybody wins .
KingOzar Caldari Brute Strength THORN Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.12 00:33:00 - [23] Yelling comms would do nothing with the carrier pilots needing to tell their fighters what to instead of clicking buttons by themselves, especially when you get 10+ carriers in one gang.
Pliauga	Posted - 2008.05.12 05:47:00 - [24] The FC can allways broadcast targets.
Jason Edwards	Posted - 2008.05.12 06:18:00 - [25] This is indeed interesting. The problems I'm thinking of is mainly... is there any limits to the amount of pods who are docked. Will there be limitations of the types of frigates you pop out? 20 stealth bombers popping out is some serious damage to all sizes of ships. Unlike say fighters which are limited to tracking. Would this be a balanced way of bringing some oomph to the carriers? PErhaps.
KingOzar Caldari Brute Strength THORN Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.12 06:31:00 - [26] Originally by: Pliauga The FC can allways broadcast targets. That's not the problem. You can't broadcast 'Carriers go to the left and bombers come around and uncloak now' while the carrier pilots are telling their pilots to return and redeploy, or something that you would tell your fighters to do. Besides, what happens when you assign said fighters to someone else? This is also a nerf to carriers just because they would rely on other people being there now to serve as their firepower.
islador	Posted - 2008.05.12 06:53:00 - [27] Have fighter drones on all carriers and MS just like you do now, you can't take that away it has become engrained, that and i like ratting in my damned carrier! But yes, definately make it so you can dock up in a carrier, and pilot a ship from the maitnance bay as a drone, give it some boosts as described above, it would be great and would totally switch it up. If your complaining about coms, fleet battles as a whole are complete wrecks if your trying to run any kind of multipronged strategy and we've overcome that, we'll overcome what ever communications and organizational nightmeres are thrown at us, so stop complaining, it's just another thing that decides who kicks ass and who gets kicked. I love it, just don't take away fighters, switch em out, so carriers have to carry the other ships + fighters but can' only have as many drones as their skills allow. Stealth bombers are great becuase they would allow for crazy awsome flanking. Definately show the people in local so that you give whoever is around a fair warning that the carrier on scan is infact active and ready to go full on instead of just another blinky isk block flying around. ok, im done blabbin
Andreya Direct Intent	Posted - 2008.05.12 14:17:00 - [28] Originally by: Blutreiter Originally by: Snowcrow Assault frigs might get a special bonus while in "carrier mode" would be a great new role for them. That actually made me curious. For the upcoming AF patch... that would be interesting to implement. Making using AFs in combination with carriers/motherships more rewarding. Maybe a special gangbonus for AFs with a carrier as a squadleader? ages ago i recommended the same idea... when they tried to bring in the 5 fighters max idea. but basically allowing assault frigs to use mroe fighters... or give the fighters under their control a nice juicy damage boost,,, big enough to actually wanna have AFs in the fleet. also, would be sorta cool and make sense if the minmatar AFs onlt gave bonus to minmatar fighters... _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Navigator ([email protected])
Zirconium Blade Ass Pounding Space Monkeys	Posted - 2008.05.12 14:22:00 - [29] I think that a pilot in an AF should be able to replace a fighter, and get bonuses from the carrier. If you have 5 pilots in AF's a nyx could only field 15 fighters, (20 with 5 drone control units) but those 5 af's get bonuses. Perhaps the same bonuses that the carrier pilots would normally get, increased damage and hitpoints.

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