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How to arrange a system for buying ore/minerals from corp miners?

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Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2008.05.09 03:03:00 - [1] I'm trying to figure out a secure, fair way to let miners sell ore or deposit it and get paid for it, ideally not requiring me to online at the moment. I was going to use an audit station container into which miners put ore (so the logs would keep track of everything put into the container), but they can't seem to open it without full hangar access. Contracts would require me to set up tons of them ahead of time (unless I'm doing something wrong) or they'd have to be arranged for each transaction. The only semi-practical solution I can come up with is having each miner have a container with their names on it and fill them with ore, then deposit them in the corp hangar, so that then I can go in the hangar, note who contributed what, and pay them accordingly. This seems like an inelegant solution, though, and would probably be a pain to implement (for the miners, mainly). I'm sure there are plenty of corps that have dealt with this issue and hopefully some of them wouldn't mind sharing their methods for keeping track of everything. Thanks in advance.
Seth Ruin Minmatar Galactic Exploration and Mining Corporation	Posted - 2008.05.09 03:18:00 - [2] I was wondering the same thing, actually. Some pretty good ideas in this post, however. The root of the problem is, of course, that CCP does not provide corp hangar audit logs. Providing these would make industrial corp management much easier.
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2008.05.09 03:29:00 - [3] Originally by: Seth Ruin I was wondering the same thing, actually. Some pretty good ideas in this post, however. The root of the problem is, of course, that CCP does not provide corp hangar audit logs. Providing these would make industrial corp management much easier. I agree. There should be a record of things put into and taken out of corp hangars. Anyway, I think the best solution is to make known prices for ore or minerals and then have the miners set up a contract to the corp instead of the corp setting up buy contracts. I'm not sure why I didn't think of it before. It should be fairly simple for a miner to set up a sell contract to the corp for all the stuff he's mined for the day for a pre-determined price.
Aneas King	Posted - 2008.05.09 04:47:00 - [4] This probably wouldn't work if you were sitting around Forge somewhere, but since you'll be buying your mins for a profit, couldn't you just put out a buy order for a slightly cheaper than market value order of mins? I'm having a very similar problem and that's what i've decided to try.
Jacob Holland Gallente Weyland-Vulcan Industries	Posted - 2008.05.09 07:21:00 - [5] Edited by: Jacob Holland on 09/05/2008 07:23:08 Contracts may be a high work option but they do fit the bill. Internal corp contracts for set quantities of ore (one million units of veld, ten thousand units of Gniess for example) at the appropriate price - it's not the lowest workload option but it would do the job. They're presumably there to cover the time you're not available - so you perhaps don't need to set up that many... -- Originally by: cordy Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
Maglorre	Posted - 2008.05.09 07:24:00 - [6] Edited by: Maglorre on 09/05/2008 07:25:21 Originally by: Aneas King This probably wouldn't work if you were sitting around Forge somewhere, but since you'll be buying your mins for a profit, couldn't you just put out a buy order for a slightly cheaper than market value order of mins? I'm having a very similar problem and that's what i've decided to try. Don't do this, if anyone puts up a slightly higher buy order than yours covering the station you use then all the mins will go to them instead. Using the contracts system is a good way to handle this. The other possibility is if you set up at least some corp contracts (or they could even be public if you wanted) WTB contracts to buy a chunk of ore/mins at your agreed prices. This way the miners can get their ISK immediately without you having to be there. If those contracts are all used up or don't cover the mins they have then simply revert to the miner creating a contract to the corp that you can accept later. Edit: Heh... HE STOLE MY THOUGHTS !!! It's a shame there is no option to create X number of identical contracts...
Shasz Planetary Industry and Trade Organization	Posted - 2008.05.09 12:11:00 - [7] Setting up contracts for ore and/or minerals fits the bill very nicely, that's the method I figured out to use for my corp as well. What we need to make it less tedious is a method to either make a copy of an existing contract, or make multiples of one contract in one shot like the previous poster mentioned. Think CCP would listen if we suggested it? PINTO is now hiring and training newbies in high-sec **
Taryn Ceridwen Un4seen Development	Posted - 2008.05.09 12:54:00 - [8] Our corp has, in the past, published a weekly mineral price list internally which can then be referred to by members wishing to sell their ore / minerals to me. The system I employ is to have them set a contract for me along with a mail to let me know about it (if I am not online. They then have the choice to either set their own price, based on the weekly mineral price list, or as is more usual, let me sort out the isk side when I come online and deposit the amount straight into their wallet along with a mail receipt.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.05.09 13:48:00 - [9] What I would like is a "corporation level" market for the stations where the corp has a hangar (even paying a higher price for the hangar and this service). That would be a market visible only to members of the corporation where only the people with the appropriate roles cold place buy and sell orders (the isk and the material will come and go to the appropriate corporation wallet and corporation hangar) while all corporation members could sell to the buy order and buy from the sell order. That would allow large corporations to sell items to corp members to a slight discount and buy from corp member at agreed upon prices.
Daerkannon Shimmerscale Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.05.09 14:21:00 - [10] How we've done it and it works quite well is we have a refining hangar in the station. (Obviously you need to have an office at that station and then designate one of the hangars as the refining hangar.) The miner buys a station container/vault/warehouse and places his ore in it. He labels the container with his name and then drops it in the refining hangar. The refiner takes the ore out of the can, refines it, pays the miner and drops the can back in the miner's hangar. Rinse and repeat. --- Honest officer, the dwarf was on fire when I got here! Can't find a mechanical engineering agent? Need a non-Caldari Navy agent? http://www.eve-agents.com/ for all your agent needs!
Artheon Gallente Tortuga Holdings EVOCATI Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.09 17:04:00 - [11] We have one single container that all miners put their ore into once a week. It records how much each person puts in and it automatically locks anything that is put into it so it can't be taken out. Then one of the directors refines all the ore at once and just transfers the isk back to each miner depending on how much ore they have provided that week.
Phaige Minmatar Reaver Construction Services	Posted - 2008.05.09 20:06:00 - [12] We usually use a mix of some of the thigns suggested here to get our ore. 1) We set low buy orders. Sure, some times I'm gonig to get price cut but its used as a secondary source, never to be totally relied upon. 2) We use the set price list every week or so, more often if there is significant shift. We set a price that is middle ground or in favor of our corp mates, but leaving them the choice to go elsewhere or sell where they mine and makea little bit more (Ideally, saving the corp some ISK on production and increasing the meager proffit margin) So we would hit above what our sell orders were currently working at yet bellow the market. This sounds... stingy. But it works based on a simple counter ballance. Dividends. When we're on a surge with minerals and ppl are donating/selling at our below market buy prices, we make sure to produce at least one BS for sale to distribution. Usually giving us 50-60m a hit. When we're all at it consistantly we can roll out an every other policy, one for profit, one for div, and still make bank while lining everyone's pockets (IE, they get paid twice basically to loan us the minerals for a lower then buy price security deposit.) Works out nice when everyone is on board (and by everyone I mean 2 heavy miners and 3-4 weekend to cruiser warriors) ----------------------------------------------- You may be a King or a little Street Sweeper, but sooner or later you dance wi' de' Reaper!
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2008.05.10 05:54:00 - [13] Originally by: Artheon We have one single container that all miners put their ore into once a week. It records how much each person puts in and it automatically locks anything that is put into it so it can't be taken out. Then one of the directors refines all the ore at once and just transfers the isk back to each miner depending on how much ore they have provided that week. This is what I was going to do, but members can't seem to open the station container with just query permission. And if they have take permissions, they could just take the whole station container and put it into their hangar (of course, I guess without the password, it wouldn't be worth much...).
Banlish Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.10 19:33:00 - [14] There is another method, but it requires alot of trust and alot of work. Grow your corp to a few hundred members and make many of them have director access. If you can cover the major time zones (EU, Asia and US) you can have people online at all times to accept buyouts for the corp. The other method is to put up extremely large contracts that would take 4 or more miners to complete. In this fashion you just have the miners get together, fill the contract then split the isk between themselves evenly. If you have miners mining at times your not on, it might be worth eventually promoting one to a director so there are multiple levels of coverage. Doing everything as a CEO is a recipe to a quick and stressful way to end your love of the game. I moved to having 25+ directors, or 10% coverage for my corp. This gives many people to cover the TZ's and many people overlap so those directors aren't swamped with just doing corp stuff all the time and get burnt out/leave. If you don't like getting overwhelmed with corp work, make sure your directors don't either. And 10% to 15% worth of directors in a corp with the CEO should lead to a quick work through of tasks as well as letting the leaders actually still play the game too. Atlas Head Diplomat CEO - Di-Tron Heavy Industries ~~Carebear~~ Pvper?!?!?
Artheon Gallente Tortuga Holdings EVOCATI Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.10 21:11:00 - [15] Edited by: Artheon on 10/05/2008 21:13:05 Originally by: Kyra Felann This is what I was going to do, but members can't seem to open the station container with just query permission. And if they have take permissions, they could just take the whole station container and put it into their hangar (of course, I guess without the password, it wouldn't be worth much...). Right - it is a risk since someone who is feeling vindictive could take the container but - they wouldn't gain a single isk from it... So to some degree - it seemed like an acceptable risk for us. Also, I make sure that there is never that much ore in the container. I ask miners to put their ore on a specific day each week (just so that the logs are easier to go through and so that the person doing the calculations can do it all at once). Usually ore is taken out twice or thrice before everyone gets a chance to put in their's so, at most, they could take half of a week's yield from the corp without gaining anything. And it makes things much easier. No contracts to worry about. All miners have to do is put the ore into a container and they just sit back and wait for the isk to be transfered. Refiners just select all and refine all at once instead of going through many containers. And whoever has access to the corp wallet / logs of the container just inputs the numbers into Eve Mineral Calculator which will provide you automatically with an isk value per person. We used to use the contract method and it is just too clumsy of a system (both time and utility wise) so I thought about trying this out. So far it has worked out well for me. If you want - you can message me IG if you have other questions. Artheon
sebieste	Posted - 2008.05.11 10:59:00 - [16] I have a public buy order for our local system which runs at about, or just below the current average trit price. I also have a refining hangar where each player has a station container. Any ore placed in here will be refined as and when I get time and the member involved will get paid at a higher rate than the buy order. I give query and take access to this hangar but no container access. This allows players to drop ore into there own individual container but disallows the taking back from same container. No passwords required. The only problem would be if a player dropped ore into someone else's container by mistake in which case it would be through there own stupidity and may or may not be returned depending on the 2 members involved. This gives them a running choice of 3 options: Sell straight away at a reasonable price. Sell to corp when Iam online (most days). Travel out for best price. Regards seb
Artheon Gallente Tortuga Holdings EVOCATI Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.11 11:05:00 - [17] Had to quick questions for you seb -- How do you disallow container access? Would disallowing container access also make it so they can not take the entire container from the hanger even if they have both query/take access? Or does it serve the same purpose as locking things in a container - they can't take anything out from the station containers?
sebieste	Posted - 2008.05.11 11:10:00 - [18] As far as i know you dont have to disallow it. You only allow it. Some members may have access through roles granted so u would have to check roles. If they dont have container access they should not be allowed to remove or take from hangar containers. Hope this helps. Seb
Stonie Bandit Caldari	Posted - 2008.05.11 14:23:00 - [19] Originally by: Daerkannon Shimmerscale How we've done it and it works quite well is we have a refining hangar in the station. (Obviously you need to have an office at that station and then designate one of the hangars as the refining hangar.) The miner buys a station container/vault/warehouse and places his ore in it. He labels the container with his name and then drops it in the refining hangar. The refiner takes the ore out of the can, refines it, pays the miner and drops the can back in the miner's hangar. Rinse and repeat. Another way is to use the freighter container. it is accessable to all. I suggest to calculate the prices for a full can per ore. This will encourage people to specialize on specific ore mining Player can contract the full cans, giving you a full can, asking the pre calculated isk and an empty container. Freighter containers are the largest non secure containers available Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Greenbolt Minmatar Un4seen Development	Posted - 2008.05.12 13:45:00 - [20] Originally by: Taryn Ceridwen Our corp has, in the past, published a weekly mineral price list internally which can then be referred to by members wishing to sell their ore / minerals to me. The system I employ is to have them set a contract for me along with a mail to let me know about it (if I am not online. They then have the choice to either set their own price, based on the weekly mineral price list, or as is more usual, let me sort out the isk side when I come online and deposit the amount straight into their wallet along with a mail receipt. Or you saying we are lazy? (I always let Taryn work out the prices).. Seriously though ..I think CCP should add some inhouse marketing options (Alliance only buy/sell orders and Corp Only buy/sell orders like you can do with contracts..would simplify this..and also ship/equipment sales etc..) --------------------------------------------------- Scordite -Who was it that said that flying minmatar is kinda like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair while firing an uzi?
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.05.12 18:48:00 - [21] CCP just needs to fix the audit log container access they broke with Revelation 1. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Duncan O'long	Posted - 2008.05.12 18:58:00 - [22] Maybe a stupid question but why not just get the miner to contract it to the corp?
Aesynil Caldari The Unit...	Posted - 2008.05.13 01:08:00 - [23] I've thought about that too, but my problem with the idea of letting them make the contract is kinda twofold One, on the honest side, they could easily make an error in adding prices, meaning they shortchange themselves, or to get too much Two, on the dishonest, they could add a little to the top each time. That pretty much means directors would be required to doublecheck the contracts, which means the directors may as well compute pay to begin with. I've been arguing it myself, trying to figure out the best system :( The Unit pursues invention, manufacturing, mining, and research. Evemail us if you need anything related to Science and Industry.
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2008.05.13 06:44:00 - [24] Just as an update, what we've decided to do now is have each miner deposit a container with ore with his name on it in the hangar, then I empty it, figure out the payout and deliver it back to their hangar. It's fairly simple, at least with only a few miners.
Samuel Samson	Posted - 2008.05.14 03:04:00 - [25] Originally by: Kyra Felann Just as an update, what we've decided to do now is have each miner deposit a container with ore with his name on it in the hangar, then I empty it, figure out the payout and deliver it back to their hangar. It's fairly simple, at least with only a few miners. We just publish corp buy prices about weekly, and let the members contract them to the corp purchasing agent. The agent can check the numbers if he wants, or can trust the member. Even if he checks every single contract, it's still just the same amount of work as your current method where you have to do all the calcs. If you trust the members to do the math, it is considerably less work.
Aesynil Caldari The Unit...	Posted - 2008.05.14 04:51:00 - [26] You know, I've been thinking about it for a while, and never once considered it from that arguement, Sammuel. :) You're quite right...I may just adopt that system, and just be sure to periodically eyeball figures from newer members. The Unit pursues invention, manufacturing, mining, and research. Evemail us if you need anything related to Science and Industry.

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