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HAMs vs. Heavies

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Bom Bolenath	Posted - 2008.05.09 23:09:00 - [1] Haven't seen a good thread on this comparison, so I'd thought I'd give it a whirl. Although people usually consider the HAM the better choice for tackling-range dps and Heavies the obvious choice for most missions b/c of their range, I note that t2 javelin HAMs appear to go just as far as t1 heavies. Add the velocity bonuses on ships like the cerberus and the sacrilege, and don't you have a viable sniping missile? What other considerations are important? The awful drawbacks of t2 missiles? The fitting req's of HAMs vs Heavies? Anyone using a HAM boat for missions? I'm currently skilling HAM spec so I can swap my Amarr laser boats for a sacrilege for Angel and Guristas missions but, for all I know, it will still be slower than my baddon. Feedback appreciated, Bom
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.05.09 23:17:00 - [2] yeh javelin HAM = t1 heavy... BUT - there are faction heavies which are much better than java HAMs - whole difference. (+ heavies fly tad further than javelin HAMS iirc and they get precission bonus + are faster)
Bom Bolenath	Posted - 2008.05.10 00:29:00 - [3] Heya, Thanks for your reply. By "precision" do you mean the explosion radius or velocity? Or are heavies guided, whereas HAMs are clearly marked as unguided missiles? Also, since t2 HAM javs (about 100 isk per) appear to be roughly equivalent to t1 heavies, would HAMs give you the best of both range and dps, applied over an entire mission?
Frakir Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation	Posted - 2008.05.10 00:30:00 - [4] I use Heavy Assualt Missles (if this is what you are speaking of). I had to switch my fittings a bit since HAM's dont go as far as Heavies. Pros: Can kill quicker due to RoF. Cost of missle is within budget. Cons: Have to gimp tanking for speed. This is what I have observed so far.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.05.10 10:33:00 - [5] Originally by: Bom Bolenath Heya, Thanks for your reply. By "precision" do you mean the explosion radius or velocity? Or are heavies guided, whereas HAMs are clearly marked as unguided missiles? Precission = sig radius thingy. Explo velocity skill applies to all missiles but explo radius only to guided ones (hvy, light, cruise). Quote: Also, since t2 HAM javs (about 100 isk per) appear to be roughly equivalent to t1 heavies, would HAMs give you the best of both range and dps, applied over an entire mission? If you are going for max damage/mission running speed use faction heavy missiles for reason stated above. Most NPCs will sit outside HAM range forcng you to use javelins. And faction heavies will outdamage javelins (+ they kill frigs better).
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.05.10 12:51:00 - [6] Originally by: Bom Bolenath Or are heavies guided, whereas HAMs are clearly marked as unguided missiles? Yup, that's it. Nothing you can do to lower the 125m explosion radius on HAMs. That's the base radius. Heavies have 125m sig, affected by guided missile precision, by precision ship bonus (nighthawk mainly), by precision rigs and by precision implants. HAMs are not affected by either of those at all. __ CSM candidates - quick reference cards Don't be a social moron, read and vote after you decide !
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2008.05.10 15:27:00 - [7] While we are on the subject of HAMs vs. Heavy Missiles: I am trying to decide how to fit out a Cerberus for use in Cosmos missions and possibly as part of a Level IV mission running team. I have the ship, and lots of Arbalest HAM launchers from missions. I know the basic setup I want to use. I am planning to passive tank the ship. Is this a bad idea on this little monster? If I use missile rigs, I can get the range on my HAMs up to 49km (with my pilot's current skills). Does this sound viable for the intended purpose? Or should I just sick with HMLs? ------------ Improvize. Adapt. Overcome.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.05.10 16:33:00 - [8] For PvE, the Drake overclasses the Cerberus, while also being cheaper. There's nothing you can do in a Cerberus you couldn't do in a Drake, except "snipe". But then again, missiles and sniping in the same sentence... meh. The only good use for a Cerberus right now is in PvP, where the lower sig, better agility and slightly faster speed matter at all. __ CSM candidates - quick reference cards Don't be a social moron, read and vote after you decide !
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2008.05.10 17:40:00 - [9] Originally by: Akita T For PvE, the Drake overclasses the Cerberus, while also being cheaper. There's nothing you can do in a Cerberus you couldn't do in a Drake, except "snipe". But then again, missiles and sniping in the same sentence... meh. The only good use for a Cerberus right now is in PvP, where the lower sig, better agility and slightly faster speed matter at all. Thank you, Akita. I already noticed that the Drake outclasses it. As does the Nighthawk (of course), which my character can already fly. I've noticed this about all the Tech II ships (except Marauders), for PvE purposes they really give no benefit at all, and in many cases are outright worse than T1 ships. Still, if you WANTED to use a Cerberus for Cosmos missions, and perhaps HAD to because of a gate that didn't let Drakes in, would you use HAMs or HMLs? ------------ Improvize. Adapt. Overcome.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.05.10 17:46:00 - [10] Originally by: Akita T For PvE, the Drake overclasses the Cerberus, while also being cheaper. There's nothing you can do in a Cerberus you couldn't do in a Drake, except "snipe". But then again, missiles and sniping in the same sentence... meh. The only good use for a Cerberus right now is in PvP, where the lower sig, better agility and slightly faster speed matter at all. I use cerb over drake on my alt for lowsec exploration. Its much easier to evade gatecamps/transverse plexes/anomalies and stay alive than in drake. Yeh mostly comes down to agility/speed part.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.05.10 18:55:00 - [11] Originally by: FT Diomedes Still, if you WANTED to use a Cerberus for Cosmos missions, and perhaps HAD to because of a gate that didn't let Drakes in, would you use HAMs or HMLs? If it's full of cruisers, but mostly battlecruisers or larger (and barely any frigates at all), then go with HAMs. I doubt such a gate would be closed off to player battlecruisers though. If it's a regular mix of frigates, cruisers (both T1 and T2) and the occasional battlecruiser (if any BCs at all), go with heavies. That's the most likely setup you should be using. If it's mostly frigates, T2 frigates, destroyers and only the occasional cruiser, go with regular assault launchers (those with light missiles). Again, I doubt such a mission gate would allow HACs in at all, so not likely to need this fit. In the end, I'd say almost certainly use Heavies. __ CSM candidates - quick reference cards Don't be a social moron, read and vote after you decide !
Ragnor Dayton Amarr Personal Vendetta Vendetta Alliance.	Posted - 2008.05.13 11:49:00 - [12] Javelin HAM's do 6% more damage and have 2% less range than standard heavies. I use them in my L4 missioning Cerberus. The biggest pain is killing the T2 frigates, they just don't do enough damage to them. Never really had an issue with the Javelin's speed reduction though. Don't use Rage - navy missiles are better, the cap reduction on Rage is a real pain. In theory with level 5 skills and a couple of rigs you can get HAM's out to 200km+ on a Cerberus, but even at 10km's its still not really viable due to the 20second flight time for sniping (well maybe at secondary). ------------------------------------------------ Just because your not paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you!
Bom Bolenath	Posted - 2008.05.13 15:41:00 - [13] I'm really enjoying the sacrilege with HAMs at the moment. I generally use a baddon for missions, but where exp/kin are called for, I hop in a cheap fit Sac that does the job brilliantly. IIRC I was just using 5 HAM IIs, 1 heavy pulse/beam, 1 AB II, 1 Web II, 2 X Cap Recharge, 1 MAR II, 2 x EANM II, and 2 X BCU II. Without rigs, I can permarun the repper and the AB. Not even sure I need the second cap recharger, meaning there's plenty of room for ROF/DMG/Speed rigs and maybe even a target painter. Until I get 2-3 webs on me, this thing doesn't even break a sweat tanking 5+ BB Angel spawns in WC4. Load javs and snipe while you're moving into range and then switch to navy or standard HAMs. It's not a raven, as far as dps goes, but it's a lot more fun piloting a ship that goes 600m/sec or so in a tight orbit. bom

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