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RazorRaven
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Posted - 2008.05.10 01:43:00 -
[1]
Edited by: RazorRaven on 10/05/2008 01:43:51
So, what do you think is better for lvl 4 missions? As I fly minmatar, I wonder is Sleipnir or Maelstrom/Typhoon better for them? Especially doing it in gang.
I cant fly sleipnir yet, but if I start training it right now I would get it faster than T2 arty's for maelstrom.
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Jill Antaris
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.05.10 01:52:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Jill Antaris on 10/05/2008 01:55:09
CS can do L4 without mutch problems, but BS have more range and more Damage(if you fit for it) so a BS(+T2 Guns/Missles) is the better choice in the long run if you want to make your ISK faster.
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Nerf Lasers!
Thay need far to less CPU and Grid to Fit.
Still using not enught Cap and do far to mutch Damage.
O wait... they allready did... =( |
Boz Well
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Posted - 2008.05.10 01:52:00 -
[3]
Commands can do missions, but they aren't better. They have nice tanks, but you generally lack dps/range. If you want to use one, go for it, but you'll do it faster in a BS imo (if you're matar, get a Raven =P).
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RazorRaven
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Posted - 2008.05.10 01:58:00 -
[4]
I dont like Raven, it crapy ship, but tnx on info. 
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Dark 'Shadow
Krispy Corp LLC
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Posted - 2008.05.10 02:22:00 -
[5]
The Raven is by no means crappy for missions, it is definetly in the top few ships for doing missions.
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Billy Merc
Amarr
Pilots Of Honour
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.05.10 02:43:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Billy Merc on 10/05/2008 02:43:04
AC sleipnir can tank any lvl 4 AND will kill chit rather quick .....WHEN its in range...therein lies the problem / time.
Malestorm will tank any lvl 4 mission BUT u must keep tabs on ure drones...because u will need them if small stuff gets close....
Other than that...pack various ammo types and go for gold..PS if u have the gun skills u will fly through lvl4's in malestorm...screw ravens
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nthexwn
Amarr
Northwest Research INC
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Posted - 2008.05.10 07:34:00 -
[7]
Absolution + Heavy Beam Lasers > Anything!
"Pfft, gimme a break, how can you claim that!?"
Okay, here's why:
- Heavy Beam Lasers have the same optimal, falloff, and tracking as Mega Pulse Lasers
- The Absolution uses (a lot) less cap than the Abaddon
- The Absolution moves faster than most battleships
- The Absolution aligns faster than most battleships
- This ship can easily reach a 2.5 second refire coupled to a 10x damage modifier! (Yes, I'm talking about setups that you'd actually use on missions)
- The signature resolution on medium guns allows for full DPS against cruisers (most mission targets are cruisers)
- Your signature radius will be small enough to make tanking a breeze (I can do any level 4 mission with just a single medium repper)
- Pimping a medium sized ship is a lot less expensive than pimping a BS, so you get returns on your ISK faster!
- The ship isn't hideous...
- You get to be different!
:P
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Prawl Blackwing
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Posted - 2008.05.10 08:04:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: nthexwn
Heavy Beam Lasers have the same optimal, falloff, and tracking as Mega Pulse Lasers
The signature resolution on medium guns allows for full DPS against cruisers (most mission targets are cruisers)
I two volley pretty much any sansna/blood cruiser with my mega pulses, the higer resolution of medium guns hardly matters on cruiser size ships, the extra dps of Mega Pulse versus Heavy Beams does matter a lot however when fighting battleships. While some missions are cruiser heavy the enemies that slow your killrate are always the battleships.
Absolution is a wonderful ship, but it can't compare versus an Abaddon/Paladin/Nightmare in sheer destructive potential (over 1000 dps just with guns).
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.10 08:11:00 -
[9]
Nighthawk is pretty awesome for missions, but then again it needs really good skills, and only truly shines against "kinetic-weak" enemies (Guristas, Serpentis, EoM, etc).
The obvious advantages over a Raven are speed, precision, low running cost and the option of a cheap strong tank... the drawback is raw firepower.
__
CSM candidates - quick reference cards
Don't be a social moron, read and vote after you decide !
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XrayZ
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.05.10 08:42:00 -
[10]
Originally by: nthexwn
- Pimping a medium sized ship is a lot less expensive than pimping a BS, so you get returns on your ISK faster!
:P
ouch, a mission bs costs ~150-200m.
the abso it self costs 150-160m 
any lvl 4 with one repper? corpum a-type mar?
ship will cost ~450m
get ur self a mael with artillery for pwning bs¦s at long range and drones or gang m8 for smaller ships.
ACs for angel missions.
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Vymorna Grom
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.05.10 11:27:00 -
[11]
Typhoon.
Not only would you potentially have the most fun in it, but properly fitted it's an absolute PvE beast.
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Originally by: Ralara
Because you touch yourself at night.
(dear god, that took 9 logins to post) |
Hayward Cyprus
Caldari
Cyprus Limited
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Posted - 2008.05.10 12:48:00 -
[12]
There is no better for missions, as not all missions are alike.
If tank is the problem (with only t2 gear) CS or HAC > BS. Some missions a t2 fitted BS cannot tank (Raven at least can't).
If it's tankable by BS then BS > HAC/CS.
On some missions CS/Hac will be near BS speed in completion, but the more BS-Rats the faster the BS is.
Of course if you use a BS, you can just decline what you can't handle and still be faster overall.
If you pimp with faction gear, BS can take anything, but you make yourself a ganktarget.
Hayward
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Arana Tellen
Gallente
The Blackguard Wolves
Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.10 13:11:00 -
[13]
Considering I can snipe cruisers for two vollys and use two out of 8 guns to blow up frigates in my Rokh (Plus having 5 medium drones) I doubt that moving to a CS for smaller target missions is going to do much.
---------------------------------
Oh noes!
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
*moderated - mother abuse - Mitnal*
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Ortos
Abyssus Incendia
THORN Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.10 13:17:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Ortos on 10/05/2008 13:23:41
Originally by: Vymorna Grom
Typhoon.
Not only would you potentially have the most fun in it, but properly fitted it's an absolute PvE beast.
Typhoon is a beast, 5x T2 Heavies, 4x Cruise and 4x 1200mm's with good skills on all is close to unbeatable, even for a CNR.
Oh, and doesnt rely on damage bonuses. It's bonused for attackspeed on cruise and heavy art. So for the cruise missiles and t2 heavies you can switch the damagetype to whatever fits the mission.
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Diomidis
Amarr
Mythos Corp
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.10 16:16:00 -
[15]
You can passively tank a Nighthawk with just T2 mods and T1 rigs up to a level that a CNR or Raven would require deadspace/officer shield boosters, faction shield boost amps etc...so an "AFK" tanked Nighthawk actually costs WAY less than any BS.
The nighthawk also has nice range compared to an Absolution for example, and require way less micro-management with a passive tank. It's like a beefed-up passively tanked Drake = you cannot go wrong with it in PvE. 
Still dmg is inadequate compared to a BS, and players that wish to solo missions should train for a Raven or sth for maximum time efficiency.
Aligning times are a bit silly to compare IMHO when discussing about missions. They might come in handy when comparing ships fitted for belt ratting in 0.0 grounds with hostiles around but that's all.
The main problem for the remaining CSs is range: they can tank a lot, but they cannot kill far enough, and slow-boating with AB around is a pain.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.10 16:27:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Diomidis
Still dmg is inadequate compared to a BS
Not THAT inadequate... on Guristas missions, you can still mount an impressive tank (over 900 peak) while pouring out roughly 550 kinetic DPS (Hornet IIs included) with just a T2 fit and the proper implants (and almost 650 DPS with CN ammo and Hobgoblin IIs).
Sure, not all that impressive compared to a Raven, but still, if you consider how effective pretty much all of that damage is applied (to anything except NPC frigates), and the fact you can do it while perma-jammed if needed... it's quite something.
__
CSM candidates - quick reference cards
Don't be a social moron, read and vote after you decide !
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Diomidis
Amarr
Mythos Corp
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.10 20:05:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Diomidis
Still dmg is inadequate compared to a BS
Not THAT inadequate... on Guristas missions, you can still mount an impressive tank (over 900 peak) while pouring out roughly 550 kinetic DPS (Hornet IIs included) with just a T2 fit and the proper implants (and almost 650 DPS with CN ammo and Hobgoblin IIs).
Sure, not all that impressive compared to a Raven, but still, if you consider how effective pretty much all of that damage is applied (to anything except NPC frigates), and the fact you can do it while perma-jammed if needed... it's quite something.
No, not at all...
But that goes for the most "mission friendly" Command ship, versus it's favored opponent (Kinetic - weak) etc.
An all-around player close to caldari command ships or skill with commands ships should definitely try lvl 4s with Nighthawk. It's skills are way more pvp friendly, as a pvp player could invest training time needed for T2 Cruise into Rails for the Rokh / Eagle etc, while still being able to run some missions respectably and safely (uber passive tank) with the nighthawk.
The fact that the nighthawk can be T2 fitted (at least for the tank) way cheaper than a raven to run ALL lvl 4s comfortably tank wise, it's a definite plus. But that's not the norm for other, active tanking Command ships, that also boost way lower optimal ranges.
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Aleis
Minmatar
Playboy Enterprises
Dark Taboo
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Posted - 2008.05.11 05:32:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Aleis on 11/05/2008 05:32:43
not sure about other races but this claim that command ships don't have range nad have to use AB are simply wrong.
Sleipnir with T2 650's and a tracking computer can hit any cruiser / battleship at point blank with regular ammo, and can reach out to 80km with Tremor ammo. And still leave plenty of fittings for a tank.
so plenty of range and no need for a AB
Gang Assist Guide |
Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves
Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.11 07:47:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Aleis
Edited by: Aleis on 11/05/2008 05:32:43
not sure about other races but this claim that command ships don't have range nad have to use AB are simply wrong.
Sleipnir with T2 650's and a tracking computer can hit any cruiser / battleship at point blank with regular ammo, and can reach out to 80km with Tremor ammo. And still leave plenty of fittings for a tank.
so plenty of range and no need for a AB
Problem is that a med arty sleip has the dps of a wet noodle when compared to the good mission ships...
The comment should probably read that command ships (except Astarte) with enough dps to make them good at missions don't have the neccessary range...
You want ME for the CSM!
There is no 'n' in turret
There is no 'r' in faction
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Diomidis
Amarr
Mythos Corp
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.11 09:22:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Aleis
Edited by: Aleis on 11/05/2008 05:32:43
not sure about other races but this claim that command ships don't have range nad have to use AB are simply wrong.
Sleipnir with T2 650's and a tracking computer can hit any cruiser / battleship at point blank with regular ammo, and can reach out to 80km with Tremor ammo. And still leave plenty of fittings for a tank.
so plenty of range and no need for a AB
The comment goes on efficiency, not ability. Commands can do lvl 4s. Period.
The OP makes it clear that we should compare BS vs. CS efficiency etc.
And I make clear that I talk about "optimal range", getting in optimal range etc - > things that guarantee full dps vs. all kinds of targets. paper/eft max dps with projectiles are not aligned with the above.
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FT Diomedes
Gallente
Ductus Exemplo
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Posted - 2008.05.11 11:21:00 -
[21]
While Command Ships can do level 4 missions, I have found that they take longer than battleships. Mind you, this is just based on using the Astarte so far (my Caldari character is 4 days away from his Nighthawk). My Astarte doesn't do enough damage at range to quickly kill the rats that orbit at 37km and further.
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Improvize. Adapt. Overcome. |
Boz Well
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Posted - 2008.05.11 15:45:00 -
[22]
Nighthawk is the best bet if you have to use a CS, but I wouldn't even bother with that for missions (unless you just love having a passive tank). Although Akita's example sounds good, it also really stacks the odds in the Nighthawk's favor and still isn't that amazing when compared to a Raven, much less a CNR/Golem.
Especially if you're flying level 4's in a gang, I would stick with the BS for gank. You're going to need less tank when missioning as a group, not more, and so there's no real reason to go with a command ship (which generally can fit a strong tank but has lower dps). The only reason I can think of to use a CS in a gang is if you are fitting fleet buffer mods, but is that really necessary for missioning? 
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Storm Strike
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Posted - 2008.05.11 16:00:00 -
[23]
Originally by: nthexwn
Absolution + Heavy Beam Lasers > Anything!
"Pfft, gimme a break, how can you claim that!?"
Okay, here's why:
- Heavy Beam Lasers have the same optimal, falloff, and tracking as Mega Pulse Lasers
- The Absolution uses (a lot) less cap than the Abaddon
- The Absolution moves faster than most battleships
- The Absolution aligns faster than most battleships
- This ship can easily reach a 2.5 second refire coupled to a 10x damage modifier! (Yes, I'm talking about setups that you'd actually use on missions)
- The signature resolution on medium guns allows for full DPS against cruisers (most mission targets are cruisers)
- Your signature radius will be small enough to make tanking a breeze (I can do any level 4 mission with just a single medium repper)
- Pimping a medium sized ship is a lot less expensive than pimping a BS, so you get returns on your ISK faster!
- The ship isn't hideous...
- You get to be different!
:P
What is your setup if you dont mind
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Kuno Hida
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Posted - 2008.05.11 16:23:00 -
[24]
As for command ships vs. BS in missions the Nighthawk is just too slow.
I'd like to say that navy ammo makes a big impact, but the average damage per navy heavy is usually 10-25% less than t1 cruise missiles. The tank is exquisite, but the time taken is also markedly longer.
The ship takes less isk to field, and is cheaper to replace. Go with the BS.
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