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Elaine Myrnaga
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Posted - 2008.05.10 20:20:00 -
[1]
No seriously.
Dear devs,
For some months now, salvaging other people's wrecks does not trigger aggression and as such, players cannot retaliate against pirates salvaging their wrecks unless they actually take something from it.
I'm currently too angry and thus, tunnelvisioned to consider the effects of implementing such a mechanic, but I see no reason to leave out our
FRICKEN
ABILITY
TO
RETALIATE
That being said, I just finished a Pirate Invasion mission, which yields crap bounty for the tiem it takes, but it rewards that with good salvage.
I was about to warp out after finishing until some ***** apparently probes me out and started salvaging. I am naturally enraged as I just sort of wasted my time on this mission.
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Dianeces
Minmatar
The Illuminati.
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Posted - 2008.05.10 20:27:00 -
[2]
Posting in another salvage is supposed to work this way thread.
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Kitoba
Minmatar
Legion of Dynamic Discord
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Posted - 2008.05.10 21:22:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Elaine Myrnaga
players cannot retaliate against pirates salvaging their wrecks unless they actually take something from it.
So I'm officially a pirate now? YARR! Let's go nooblooting...
Originally by: Elaine Myrnaga
I was about to warp out after finishing until some ***** apparently probes me out and started salvaging. I am naturally enraged as I just sort of wasted my time on this mission.
Thousands of honourable pirates roam lo-sec and find nothing to shoot at for hours, wasting all their time.
I will sign no other solution to these problems than to completely remove hi-sec. Are you with me?
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Tek'a Rain
Gallente
Collegium Mechanicae Holding
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Posted - 2008.05.10 23:30:00 -
[4]
non-issue.
See "can-theft" and current "can-Baiting" mechanics and the ore theft activity in many areas.
Think, just for a second, what would happen when you "retaliate" against that tiny noob-ship with a salvager.. they pop, fly off, come back in a moment and gank your lovingly fitted mission ship.
This is the current problem with retaliating to 'theft' of Jet' Cans (jet cans and lack of large mining cans being a different issue).
When people whined and CCP got the change (flagging mechanic) ready, EVERY SINGLE PIRATE warned the people who asked for this change. They were able to see the Huge flaw in what miners were asking for, and they could see how they would make the most of it.
Lets not make stupid mistakes any more? lets not inflate non-issues and make things WORSE for plenty of players (while encouraging near-grief and generally cruddy gameplay)
Drop the issue.
Talk to the salvager!
I worked for a few friends, going into their mission and salvaging loot, simplifying things for them (they could move to next mission, I gave them a fair isk-payment upfront). Or did you even ask them to leave? Being polite to others is key in getting the desired response, while an insulted salvager would certainly stick around out of devilment.
once more, and for the last time. This is a Non-Issue. If you hate it, move out of mission hubs! If you hate it, salvage yourself or get a friend/corpmate/Alt to do it.
Don't simply propose foolish changes.
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Marcus Gideon
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Posted - 2008.05.11 01:37:00 -
[5]
Everyone I've ever heard talk about Salvaging also mentions the Destroyers. They always say "It's got 8 high slots! It's perfect for salvage!"
What they were saying was to load 4 salvagers and 4 tractors.
But what I heard was, gear it properly and you can run L1-L2 with one... and get everything in one pass. Load it with 4 guns, 2 salvagers, 2 tractors, and whatever tank you're using. Then when everything is dead, you clean up and press on to the next area. This way there aren't any wrecks looming behind you to be taken. It may take a little longer, but it avoids any thefts.
If you can't handle L2 with a Destroyer, use something like a Vexor or Arbitrator. Drones kill, and you clean up with 2 / 2. Haven't gotten into L3+ but those seem to become easier with a group anyways. So someone could salvage room A while the combat continues in room B.
Sorry, rambling... point being if you plan ahead you don't have as much to fear from pirates and thieves.
I for one believe the current flag-less salvaging is a genius idea. How often do you see wrecks floating outside a high sec station, left behind by the player who wanted to get rid of a ship by "accidently" self-destructing for the insurance. Not quite every player mounts a salvager, or bothers to clean up space trash... and so wrecks are fair game to someone willing to take the few minutes.
A fair argument I had heard, was to make mission space unprobeable until some time after the mission is completed. This would give the runner time to finish, hand in, and salvage the area before it's free for all. Just a thought.
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Levid
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Posted - 2008.05.11 03:00:00 -
[6]
would be fairly easy to add a time based flag to the wrecks,would say 30 minutes or so would be appropaite.
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Hesod Adee
Xen Of Onslaught
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Posted - 2008.05.11 05:15:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Hesod Adee on 11/05/2008 05:15:44
Easy solution: Stop running missions in the mission hubs. Go find somewhere where there aren't many high level mission runners and, if you can find them, lots of low level mission runners.
Since it won't be as profitable for them as in the main mission hubs, they won't bother you because they are off bothering the people in the mission hubs.
If you really want to shoot back, go run low sec missions.
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Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
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Posted - 2008.05.11 05:18:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 11/05/2008 05:19:33
The only salvage-related aggression flagging ideas that aren't immensely stupid are:
1. no salvaging without aggression while the wreck owner is still in the belt
2. no salvaging without aggression until two or three minutes after the wreck is generated
Remember it's a wreck, and that the definition of salvage is basically to take something you want from a wreck or pile of refuse.
Personally I'd prefer that wreck laws remain as they are now. Ninja salvaging sucks when you lose your salvage to it, but tbh I've NEVER experienced having a wreck ninja'd outside of a major hub.
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Cheopis
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2008.05.11 06:50:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Tek'a Rain
non-issue.
See "can-theft" and current "can-Baiting" mechanics and the ore theft activity in many areas.
Think, just for a second, what would happen when you "retaliate" against that tiny noob-ship with a salvager.. they pop, fly off, come back in a moment and gank your lovingly fitted mission ship.
This is the current problem with retaliating to 'theft' of Jet' Cans (jet cans and lack of large mining cans being a different issue).
When people whined and CCP got the change (flagging mechanic) ready, EVERY SINGLE PIRATE warned the people who asked for this change. They were able to see the Huge flaw in what miners were asking for, and they could see how they would make the most of it.
Lets not make stupid mistakes any more? lets not inflate non-issues and make things WORSE for plenty of players (while encouraging near-grief and generally cruddy gameplay)
Drop the issue.
Talk to the salvager!
I worked for a few friends, going into their mission and salvaging loot, simplifying things for them (they could move to next mission, I gave them a fair isk-payment upfront). Or did you even ask them to leave? Being polite to others is key in getting the desired response, while an insulted salvager would certainly stick around out of devilment.
once more, and for the last time. This is a Non-Issue. If you hate it, move out of mission hubs! If you hate it, salvage yourself or get a friend/corpmate/Alt to do it.
Don't simply propose foolish changes.
I mission down in Amarr space, avoiding high density areas, and have never had salvage stolen in a mission. However if someone were to steal from me I would certainly want the option of retaliating. I've been around a few years, and know the risks.
The best option is to loot as you go if you are in high pilot density space. The smart choice is to move out of high pilot density space, as it sucks in every way anyhow.
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Kiran Jiyuu
Caldari
Sanctuary
Aegis Consortium
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Posted - 2008.05.11 10:23:00 -
[10]
The mechanics of wrecks and flagging is working as intended.
This topic has been up for discussion countless of times, and it does not seem like it's going to change any time soon.
Have you read this statement from CCP?
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=766902
If you're so damned annoyed with rogue salvagers, why don't you take action against them? Goons managed to make high sec mining interesting (in a very brutal way, but mining in high sec became risky), so why don't you start making high sec salvaging bloody difficult? There are many ways to foil rogue salvagers, and they are unlikely to be heavily tanked...
Please do not put EVE on easy mode, CCP.
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Callthetruth
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.05.11 11:14:00 -
[11]
system is fine as is..... have a alt in a salavaging ship or a corp mate ( make sure u get into a palyer corp) come along and loot-salvage for u.
My guess is the original poster is running missions in a hub system ( bad idea) and is to lazy to move around..... solution move to quite systems have corp mate or friend or alt loot and salvage
End outcome youre happy, we dont lsiten to another thread and all is happy
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Mavolio
White Nova Industries
Cosmic Anomalies
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Posted - 2008.05.11 12:58:00 -
[12]
Looks like the "mission runner accepts a mission and system auto posts a salvage whine on forum feature" working nice now.
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Sugarush
Caldari
In terrorem
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Posted - 2008.05.11 15:35:00 -
[13]
It could be worse, I know guys that probe out people's L4 Missions and kill all the Mobs and Salvage everything else as well, leaving only the mission objective behind.
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Kitoba
Minmatar
Legion of Dynamic Discord
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Posted - 2008.05.11 18:07:00 -
[14]
Actually, coming to think of it, there's a thing that needs fixing: Tractor rights. While it might be debatable that non-empty wrecks work just like cans, empty wrecks surely should be tractorable.
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