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LetsDoThis
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Posted - 2008.05.11 00:18:00 -
[1]
Part 1: Empyrean Age is supposed to turn non-pvpers into
So the point of this expansion is 'factional warfare' and is supposed to get more non-pvpers to go out and pvp, or something silly like that.
Now I'm not gonna say that factional warfare is a bad idea. Its not, and it'll be fun content for some people.
I am however going to question the idea that it will bet non-pvpers to pvp.
Most common/probably reasons why I think people don't pvp in eve:
1) Some people don't like to pvp at all, so of course they definitely wont participate.
2) Some people don't like risking assets they've worked for, so they definitely won't participate without a sponsor giving them free stuff with which to pvp.
3) Some people only truly enjoy pvp in a fair environment, like the eve tournaments, for innumerable reasons. I'd throw myself into this category, as I enjoy good competitive competition, and that is very very rare in eve outside of the tournaments.
4) Combination of 2 and 3, of various shades.
Reasons for not pvping that I believe Empyrean Age will solve:
1) If you don't like player based politics.
2) #1 + you don't like pirating/policing in lowsec.
3) Wardeccing costs too much.
4) If you only want to wardec willing combatants, and cant find any.
So, the basic fundamentals of eve do not change with this content, from what I understand. I've read nothing that indicated so at least.
So, this factional warfare brings rvr based politics into eve, and I like that. Probably wont do it for the same reasons I don't pvp in eve right now, but I thing its a good idea. I think it'll be drawing on mostly the same pool of players that already pvp right now.
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DubanFP
Caldari
Four Rings
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.11 00:25:00 -
[2]
Edited by: DubanFP on 11/05/2008 00:34:16
Sorry but you're post makes too many assumptions and doesn't really say exactly what you're getting at. Are you trying to change it for the better? Are you trying to get more people to PVP? Are you saying you might join in? What's the point?
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ReiAyanami> We bring you tidings of AARRRRRRRRR |
Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
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Posted - 2008.05.11 00:26:00 -
[3]
As long as faction warfare achieves something in-game, it'll work even if it doesn't convert non-PvPers. I admit I haven't read everything about the upcoming expansion so maybe this issue has already been addressed somewhere, but my fear is that faction warfare PvP might turn out to be as pointless as WoW capture the flag or DAoC RvR, in that no matter how successful you may be, the results just get reset every so often on their own. That's totally not in line with what I've come to see Eve as being.
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HarderThisTime
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Posted - 2008.05.11 00:28:00 -
[4]
Edited by: HarderThisTime on 11/05/2008 00:28:39
 Originally by: DubanFP
Edited by: DubanFP on 11/05/2008 00:26:36
Sorry but you're post makes too many assumptions and doesn't really say exactly what you're getting at. Are you trying to change it for the better? Are you trying to get more people to PVP? What's the point?
I don't think it'll work.
edit: im da op
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DubanFP
Caldari
Four Rings
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.11 00:45:00 -
[5]
Edited by: DubanFP on 11/05/2008 00:45:48
Originally by: The op
I don't think it'll work.
ok that helps. Honestly I agreee. I think it probebly will wind up being a waste of dev time. True PVPers don't need an excuse to PVP. They'll probebly keep doing what they've always done. Especially that they would look for easy kills rather then targets that fight back.
The not so true PVPers however just won't show up in enough numbers. Basically i think they'll either get ganked into the ground or have a hard time coming by targets at all. These are all generlizations though. In the end though I think it's really too early to say what things will definately be like. I mean we bearly have any information on it.
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ReiAyanami> We bring you tidings of AARRRRRRRRR |
LetsDoThis
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Posted - 2008.05.11 00:49:00 -
[6]
Well tbqh I think the tournaments are attractive to a lot of people that don't pvp in eve.
The idea of a fairly balanced pvp battles, where all ship classes have their use because of their point cost... pretty cool.
Cause me, im ok with loss. Im not ok with a ton of loss. And I'm also after fair competition, thus the tournaments being so cool imo.
But I am biased of course for my personal preference. I would suggest that a tournament syle "arena system" would bring far more players into pvp than factional warfare. I know the term "arena" is gonna hit a nerve in most people because of wow, but real loss is real loss, and it would benefit the eve market economy, so I think it'd only benefit eve as a whole. They already do it on special occasions. :P
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Navtiqes
Noob Mercs
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Posted - 2008.05.11 01:12:00 -
[7]
Originally by: LetsDoThis
I know the term "arena" is gonna hit a nerve in most people because of That Game We Don't Mention, but real loss is real loss, and it would benefit the eve market economy, so I think it'd only benefit eve as a whole. They already do it on special occasions. :P
The term arena hits a nerve with me because it was ridiculous in Anarchy Online, and then in every other pve game I dropped by.
I dunno. To me the attraction in Eve is that it's not fair.
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Naqam
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Posted - 2008.05.11 01:21:00 -
[8]
It'l draw some people imo, but many EVE players are complete pacificts who wouldn't shoot another player if their life depended on it. (literally)
Some are just cowardly, and don't want to risk anything, regardless...
...
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Siege
Minmatar
Siegecraft Bounty Hunting
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Posted - 2008.05.11 02:11:00 -
[9]
I for one hope it's going to work, and plan on giving it a serious attempt at having some fun. I know more than a few other players, all serious pvp types, who are looking forward to what is hopefully some great small-scale pvp. The only real question for us right now is the detailed mechanics of it all, but the core concept looks good.
------ begin signature -----
Little known Eve fact, The original race names were:
Amarr Empire, Caldar Empire, Minmatar Republic, The Jovians, and The Remanaquie Federation. |
Zeba
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.05.11 02:24:00 -
[10]
I think Red vs Blue proved that there is a great demand for faction style warfare. Hopefully CCP will give the players a reason to do it over the long haul unlike the purely candy store pvp that RvB offered. 
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2008.05.11 02:25:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
It'l draw some people imo, but many EVE players are complete pacificts who wouldn't shoot another player if their life depended on it. (literally)
Some are just cowardly, and don't want to risk anything, regardless...
Some just don't want meaningless PvP, which the majority of EVE PvP is. Rather, that's what people make it. Frankly, I don't like the idea of being blown up just so someone gets another mark on their useless killboard. So I guess you could say I avoid PvP simply to deny other players their jollies, because even if I would get some kills myself they mean absolutely nothing to me. I have PvPed in 0.0 to hold territory for almost a year, and that had meaning. But 0.0 was so incredibly boring after awhile, gave a second job feeling. And outside of 0.0 there is no real reason to PvP as for the most part there is no lasting results of doing so.
Basically, I think if Factional Warfare brings with it real changes to the political environment in empire it will gain interest from a lot of players who just don't like PvP the way it is currently. If I am going out to get shot at, I want it to be for a reason. But I don't want to be tied down like I was in 0.0
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
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Hanneshannes
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Posted - 2008.05.11 02:30:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Hanneshannes on 11/05/2008 02:31:19
I don't know if I will like it. What I like abotu EvE is that I can do as I please and have no one telling me how to play or what to do.
I'd be somewhat ****ed if this would happen.
If it works, no idea, maybe, maybe not, maybe some 50/50 sorta thing.
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Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2008.05.11 02:33:00 -
[13]
I don't know if it will drive other non-pvpers to pvp, i can only speak for myself.
I did some pvp a while ago, but somehow i need a better reason than my ceo's bad decisions/politics, in order to go and kill people and spend my isk. I don't like that 0.0 pvp where you camp a gate for hours or have to wait long time till you got a gang going.
Factional Warfare pvp will be much more dynamic i think, you can log in whenever you want (don't have to schedule your online times for your corp needs), join up any faction gang that is currently active and do goal-oriented pvp, without big obligations.
So it will definitely get me as a non-pvper into pvp, i already have a lots of ships ready for this, from drake to dreadnought, fueled, armed and ready for kicking some gallentes and retaliate the people of caldari prime.
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jongalt
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Posted - 2008.05.11 02:47:00 -
[14]
fact: nobody knows anything about whether it will be good until they release the expansion.
until then, its just intellectual master-baishun. with no happy ending.
have fun!
-jg.
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Agif
UnderDog Industries
Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.05.11 03:00:00 -
[15]
Originally by: jongalt
fact: nobody knows anything about whether it will be good until they release the expansion.
until then, its just intellectual master-baishun. with no happy ending.
have fun!
-jg.
Correct but this is called the forums.....
Oh wait no we dont debate sh1t here....
Must press Alt + F4
Like tourists the stupid are everywhere it seems.
o/
/Agif
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EvEmissions - Level 5 Missions - Updated 22/01/08 |
El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.05.11 03:44:00 -
[16]
It won't work to move any significant amount of people to combat PVP. You can't force people to a particular game style. SOE tried that and failed miserably.
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Buyerr
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Posted - 2008.05.11 04:03:00 -
[17]
main problem in pvp in eve is that it is all on very small "instance".
you warp to a grid and fight.
in any other mmo you can run around and gradually find some one etc.
which makes pvp a whole other thing..
besides that it is the point that in eve you try to FORCE people to pvp for NO reason.. really there isn't any reason at all for a carebear who have no intention of going into lowsec or to nag or destroy others, to actually pvp.
and lets face it, most people are not driven by the will of seing how much miserable they can make around themself.
so give some incentiment to pvp would be a nice start.
and make it so you don't always have to jump right on the enemy, let the player decide where he lands.
I declare war on stupidity |
Oakrayven
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Posted - 2008.05.11 04:24:00 -
[18]
eh WOWs Arena style PvP works as well as it does because its opt in and its semi controled, no oh crap they just brought in 3X More XXX class ships than we have both flying and loged out in production and a suport fleet thats 2X our fleet! FREAKING RUN AND DOCK AT THE NPC STATION UNTILL THEY GET BORED AND FLY OFF!!!!!
but we will see how it goes.
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Corska Zrai
Minmatar
Republic University
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Posted - 2008.05.11 04:25:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Wet Ferret
Some just don't want meaningless PvP, which the majority of EVE PvP is.
This is my main reason for not actively PvPing in most games. In WoW, "Yay! We won the war! +50 honor. Same time tomorrow?" In Guild Wars, "All right! We kicked that guild's butt back to pre-burnt <forgot city name>! Next!" The only game I've seen do something extremely world-changing with PvP is Roma Victor, which would be my game of choice if it was as polished as EVE, EQ, or WoW. I wonder if that games even still going...
[In Roma Victor, you can (afaik) burn down entire cities that stay burnt down until someone rebuilds it. That is some dynamic PvP.]
As for this upcoming expansion, as long as I get to blast some Amarrian Slave Traders, I'll be quite content. 
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Apoctasy
The Python Cartel
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Posted - 2008.05.11 04:27:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Apoctasy on 11/05/2008 04:26:56
IS there any way we can ignore the features of the expansion?
I don't want to constantly worry about my favorite places being "in enemy hands" and things. This should be confined to a specific area.
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LetsDoThis
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Posted - 2008.05.11 04:31:00 -
[21]
Edited by: LetsDoThis on 11/05/2008 04:31:29
Yeah, im more of an instant action, instant access guy.
I have no-time, so every-time has to be go-time.
Currently, when I wanna kick other player's asses, I do it in TF2. 
Theres another reason I think an arena would be nice, reliable pvp combat. Buy modules, fit ship, aaaand GO TIME!
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Oakrayven
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Posted - 2008.05.11 04:45:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Apoctasy
Edited by: Apoctasy on 11/05/2008 04:26:56
IS there any way we can ignore the features of the expansion?
I don't want to constantly worry about my favorite places being "in enemy hands" and things. This should be confined to a specific area.
. . .
they have basicaly said elsewhere (old blogs) that the idea was it was "opt in"
http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=502
their "Big list" of bullet points
1 Factional warfare will be fiction heavy. There will be strong story leading up to it; there will be a strong fictional background around it.
2 It will be up to you if you choose to immerse yourself in fictional side or not, there will be no requirement to role-play.
3 It will not be instanced warfare; all of EVE is a battleground.
4 It will be centered around low security space, but not exclusively.
5 Opposing Faction navies will take a sudden dislike to you fighting for their enemies.
6 The pansies who currently take you on will most likely get fired and replaced with people who know how to shoot.
7 There will be no "PvP lite".
8 The first release will only involve the four Empires, but we have every intention of expanding this in the future so you can attack the pirate organizations or even declare war on the Empire factions.
9 You will not need to leave your corporation to join factional warfare. Individuals as well as corporations can join the cause.
10 It won't be restricted game play, it will still be EVE and EVE is a free form sandbox, this is just another type of sand.
11 Fighting for an faction will have negative consequences on the enemy faction.
Basicaly from the sound of things its going to be "Missions Vs 2.0, THE BIG FIX to the Risk Vs Reward balance!!!! for low sec.
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Mudrat
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Posted - 2008.05.11 05:36:00 -
[23]
i predict less miners, less trit available, trit prices going up and ship prices going up as a result
pvp'ers only go for squishy targets. nothing is squisher than most miners. those who properly train to properly fit a hulk are quite rare
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Zian Tzu
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Posted - 2008.05.11 06:20:00 -
[24]
Originally by: CCP
When the expansion does indeed kick off, players will be able to sign up for one side or the other.
This is the bit that makes me LOL. Why wont most players all pile onto the winning side? If you go to an FPS multiplay server you need one with auto team balancing unless it is prearranged with some other way of setting teams because with team choice people all join one team, the winning team, regularly. ALso they quit the server when they are on the losing team. Food for thought.
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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.05.11 06:39:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Soporo on 11/05/2008 06:40:17
Originally by: Mudrat
i predict less miners, less trit available, trit prices going up and ship prices going up as a result
pvp'ers only go for squishy targets. nothing is squisher than most miners. those who properly train to properly fit a hulk are quite rare
Well, yeah. If your a straight Empire Miner it would be foolish to opt in to this.
I just had a random thought  :
What if CCP said " All NPC Corp members are automatically assigned to Factional Warfare, in order to opt out you have to be in a player run Corp..."
Boy wouldnt the fur fly.
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Zian Tzu
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Posted - 2008.05.11 07:49:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Soporo
I just had a random thought :
What if CCP said " All NPC Corp members are automatically assigned to Factional Warfare, in order to opt out you have to be in a player run Corp..."
Boy wouldnt the fur fly.
Well because of the snowball problem (one side snowballs and the other melts) I don't see how it can work unless it forces alliegance based on character faction and if so CCP must be arranging the factions on either side in something like a balanced way. Gallente and Minmatar v Caldari and Amarr or something like that.
So the option would be not which side but whether you are in or out of PVP, yet again.
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Feilamya
Minmatar
Pelennor Swarm
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Posted - 2008.05.11 09:36:00 -
[27]
Factional warfare has no right to exist in a sandbox game.
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N'irrti
Amarr
Reach Fuileach
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Posted - 2008.05.11 10:29:00 -
[28]
I predict massive whineage when the unorganized carebear fleets get wasted by organized and skilled pvp gangs 
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El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.05.11 10:45:00 -
[29]
Originally by: N'irrti
I predict massive whineage when the unorganized carebear fleets get wasted by organized and skilled pvp gangs
One reason its a bad idea really.....
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Callthetruth
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.05.11 11:30:00 -
[30]
is there a date for this patch
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