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Khan d'barr Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.11 14:59:00 - [1] Edited by: Khan d''barr on 11/05/2008 14:59:56 This topic has probably been covered before, but eve-search.com isn't loading for me (probably my sucky uni) and the eve search isn't worth trying. So anyway, climate change is happening, global warming... is happening but it's nothing too major to worry about and it's all natural. That statement will probably get some of you foaming at the mouth, who knows, but I've watched http://www.discovery.org/v/30 (presentation) which pretty much explains everything. Who knows why this hasn't reached the media in such a large scale, I'm thinking it has a lot to do with the political agenda (not to be discussed here ofc. ) of the UN on "Global Warming". Oh and before anyone starts telling me about Al Gore's paper, it was discredited by thousands of scientists, so I'm siding with the majority. So yeah, after watching that presentation, what's your view point on Global Warming/Climate Change?
Khan d'barr Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.11 14:59:00 - [2] Edited by: Khan d''barr on 11/05/2008 14:59:56 This topic has probably been covered before, but eve-search.com isn't loading for me (probably my sucky uni) and the eve search isn't worth trying. So anyway, climate change is happening, global warming... is happening but it's nothing too major to worry about and it's all natural. That statement will probably get some of you foaming at the mouth, who knows, but I've watched http://www.discovery.org/v/30 (presentation) which pretty much explains everything. Who knows why this hasn't reached the media in such a large scale, I'm thinking it has a lot to do with the political agenda (not to be discussed here ofc. ) of the UN on "Global Warming". Oh and before anyone starts telling me about Al Gore's paper, it was discredited by thousands of scientists, so I'm siding with the majority. So yeah, after watching that presentation, what's your view point on Global Warming/Climate Change?
Twelve Jackals	Posted - 2008.05.11 15:15:00 - [3] in before **** storm
Spiffy Sunkist Grail Seekers	Posted - 2008.05.11 15:19:00 - [4] WE DIDN'T LISTEN!
ReaperOfSly Gallente Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2008.05.11 15:30:00 - [5] THE GLOBAL WARMING IS A LIE!!! THE GLOBAL WARMING IS A LIE!!! THE GLOBAL WARMING IS A LIE!!! --------------------------------------------------------------------
Kyrall Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.11 15:44:00 - [6] Originally by: ReaperOfSly THE GLOBAL WARMING IS A LIE!!! THE GLOBAL WARMING IS A LIE!!! THE GLOBAL WARMING IS A LIE!!! Global warming is cake? - Originally by: Kyrall Pfft antivirus? Real men use a hard drive tank.
Isiskhan Gnostic Misanthropy	Posted - 2008.05.11 16:12:00 - [7] So you go on about how the United Nations and Al Gore and yada yada are all just pursuing some sort of nebulous political agenda regarding climate change, and you try to counter those positions by posting a presentation by none other than the Discovery Institute? The same organization that pursues among other things to teach creationist and anti-evolution beliefs on US schools, and whose manifesto includes the goal to "reverse the stifling dominance of the materialist worldview, and to replace it with a science consonant with Christian and theistic convictions"? /fail
Khan d'barr Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.11 16:26:00 - [8] Originally by: Isiskhan So you go on about how the United Nations and Al Gore and yada yada are all just pursuing some sort of nebulous political agenda regarding climate change, and you try to counter those positions by posting a presentation by none other than the Discovery Institute? The same organization that pursues among other things to teach creationist and anti-evolution beliefs on US schools, and whose manifesto includes the goal to "reverse the stifling dominance of the materialist worldview, and to replace it with a science consonant with Christian and theistic convictions"? /fail The debate is about climate change. So tell me this, when did climate change involve religion? You sir, "/fail"
Twelve Jackals	Posted - 2008.05.11 16:49:00 - [9] Originally by: Khan d'barr Originally by: Isiskhan So you go on about how the United Nations and Al Gore and yada yada are all just pursuing some sort of nebulous political agenda regarding climate change, and you try to counter those positions by posting a presentation by none other than the Discovery Institute? The same organization that pursues among other things to teach creationist and anti-evolution beliefs on US schools, and whose manifesto includes the goal to "reverse the stifling dominance of the materialist worldview, and to replace it with a science consonant with Christian and theistic convictions"? /fail The debate is about climate change. So tell me this, when did climate change involve religion? You sir, "/fail" See: Quote: The Discovery Institute is a U.S. think tank based in Seattle, Washington, best known for its advocacy of intelligent design and its Teach the Controversy campaign to teach creationist anti-evolution beliefs in United States public high school science courses. That kind of multiplied their credibility by zero.
Admus Multiverse Corporation Cosmic Anomalies	Posted - 2008.05.11 17:02:00 - [10] The phrase "global warming" is somewhat misleading and I think people are misunderstanding the issues. What is a concern is more generally, climate change. What humanity has done in the last century or two is initiate a large uncontrolled experiment with the ecosphere. We've injected a large amount of greenhouse gases (of which the main component is carbon dioxide) into the atmosphere that will capture more energy from the sun and be difficult to remove. While this may mean warming, it could have other effects that might change the transfer of energy around the globe. It scares me that people just shrug off climate change as natural. The data does not lie; we have increased the carbon content of our atmosphere from 280 ppm (preindustrial) to 375 ppm[1]. The earth has never seen this rapid injection before (except in catastrophic impacts/eruptions) and we should be prepared to make changes. We should not just sit idly by if some select researchers theorize it's harmless. Some references: 1. Pacala, S. Et. Al. "Stabilization Wedges: Solving the Climate Problem for the Next 50 Years with Current Technologies." Science. Vol 305 (2004) 2. Friedlingstein, F. "A Steep Road to Climate Stabilization." Nature. Vol 451 (2008) ---------------------------------------------------------- "Villains always have antidotes. They're funny that way."
ReaperOfSly Gallente Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2008.05.11 17:11:00 - [11] Originally by: Admus The phrase "global warming" is somewhat misleading and I think people are misunderstanding the issues. What is a concern is more generally, climate change. What humanity has done in the last century or two is initiate a large uncontrolled experiment with the ecosphere. We've injected a large amount of greenhouse gases (of which the main component is carbon dioxide) into the atmosphere that will capture more energy from the sun and be difficult to remove. While this may mean warming, it could have other effects that might change the transfer of energy around the globe. It scares me that people just shrug off climate change as natural. The data does not lie; we have increased the carbon content of our atmosphere from 280 ppm (preindustrial) to 375 ppm[1]. The earth has never seen this rapid injection before (except in catastrophic impacts/eruptions) and we should be prepared to make changes. We should not just sit idly by if some select researchers theorize it's harmless. Some references: 1. Pacala, S. Et. Al. "Stabilization Wedges: Solving the Climate Problem for the Next 50 Years with Current Technologies." Science. Vol 305 (2004) 2. Friedlingstein, F. "A Steep Road to Climate Stabilization." Nature. Vol 451 (2008) Yes, we're always being made to feel guilty about the state the atmosphere is in. The question is: what can we actually do about it that's significant? Sure, we can turn lights off when we leave a room, and not leave the telly on standby. That will reduce the amount of carbon being released into the atmosphere by what, 0.0000000000000001%? And if I ever rise up to become Great Overlord of Earth, I will probably be able to do something about it. But it seems unlikely. In the meantime, I guess I'll have to build a little windmill and hook it up to a rechargeable battery. I wonder how much crap was released into the atmosphere to manufacture the parts... --------------------------------------------------------------------
Twelve Jackals	Posted - 2008.05.11 17:13:00 - [12] Originally by: ReaperOfSly Yes, we're always being made to feel guilty about the state the atmosphere is in. The question is: what can we actually do about it that's significant? Sure, we can turn lights off when we leave a room, and not leave the telly on standby. That will reduce the amount of carbon being released into the atmosphere by what, 0.0000000000000001%? And if I ever rise up to become Great Overlord of Earth, I will probably be able to do something about it. But it seems unlikely. Your laziness does not qualify as an argument.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.11 17:24:00 - [13] "Our ice-core logs didn't show anything" I hate how politicians are trying to make it a big deal. Yeah, it's stupid to release too much CO2 into the atmosphere, if we can. But it's not causing what Al Gore claims.
Khan d'barr Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.11 18:04:00 - [14] Some of your replies are astounding. You haven't watched the presentation, IRREGARDLESS of the stance of their religious views. So what if they're Christian, Muslim, Athiest? Science is science, and what people have understood from Al Gore is completely incorrect. If you discredit scientific research because they're Christian, then you've got something wrong with you. Same goes for any other religion. The amount of CO2 has not dramatically affected the climate of the world. CO2 increase has mainly been due to ice caps melting, yet they're thickening in the south pole. The main effect of warming is NOT CARBON DIOXIDE, it's water vapour. The Earth goes through cycles of warming and cooling, and with the statistical data shown, what's happening at the moment is a) not extreme compared to medieval times or the "small ice age" we had about 70 years ago b) and it is all naturally enduced by solar activity. We can't help what the Sun does, and besides, with the data shown, an increase in CO2 in the atmosphere has increased plant growth. That's a good thing right?
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.11 18:09:00 - [15] Originally by: Khan d'barr We can't help what the Sun does, and besides, with the data shown, an increase in CO2 in the atmosphere has increased plant growth. That's a good thing right? I actually found it interesting that he claimed that CO2 was a gift. Sure, plant growth is good. But a gift? Well, that is a bit extreme.
Khan d'barr Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.11 18:11:00 - [16] Well it's a gift to plants no? Anyway, it's shown that with increases of two or three-fold in use of hydrocarbons (that surprisingly emit CO2) nothing much has changed. It's all a big farce of human intelligence tbh, everyone seems to believe whatever the media puts in front of them.
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Enterprises	Posted - 2008.05.11 18:17:00 - [17] the biggest mistake they ever made was calling it global warming. if it is anything outside of natural phenomena (i cant help but think some of what we do has a big impact, but that doesn't mean we can say A=B) it is more of a case of global weather extremism. if the patterns hold and increase, and it is real, then its not simply a case of everything getting warmer. weather patterns become more drastic in their swings. it gets a lot colder when its normally just cold, a lot hotter when its normally just hot. areas that are wet become dry, other areas that are dry may become wet. this will make it a *** to hold any solid agriculture from year to year... blah blah blah, its the end of the world /Ad nauseam i dont think there is enough data out there to make a solid conclusion either way. we just have to wait and see. i have to side w/ the group that says its chiefly natural, but its also rediculous to think we dont have some impact on the globe. so... while i hate to hear ppl tell me to switch out my filament lightbulbs for ones filled w/ mercury (how is that **ing 'green'?), if the global warming scare can get some amount of enviro responsibilty out of major industry and governments, then i guess something good could come out of the whole sham. i just wish ppl could get over the global warming crap and focus on us being more responsible custodians of the planet. on a U.S. side, w/ a guy in office (and voters) that thinks jesus is coming soon so we dont need to worry about the future, it just seems like one big joke. i'm bored at work, can ya tell? ------------------------------ of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most
Khan d'barr Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.11 18:27:00 - [18] Originally by: HankMurphy the biggest mistake they ever made was calling it global warming. if it is anything outside of natural phenomena (i cant help but think some of what we do has a big impact, but that doesn't mean we can say A=B) it is more of a case of global weather extremism. That's why I called the topic Climate Change. Media calls it global warming, and well, as I stated earlier, it's getting colder at the south pole! Originally by: HankMurphy i dont think there is enough data out there to make a solid conclusion either way. we just have to wait and see. i have to side w/ the group that says its chiefly natural, but its also rediculous to think we dont have some impact on the globe. Well, I think data showing the last 3000 years of temperatures is quite evidential. I somehow don't think the Romans and such were using hydrocarbons on the scale we are today, yet it was hotter then than now. Originally by: HankMurphy i just wish ppl could get over the global warming crap and focus on us being more responsible custodians of the planet. on a U.S. side, w/ a guy in office (and voters) that thinks jesus is coming soon so we dont need to worry about the future, it just seems like one big joke. Even though I disagree with everything that people quote about "Global Warming" and how we're killing the planet, I still recycle and turn things off. It's not a matter of saving the planet, more making it a better place to live. Pollution is the big killer here. Originally by: HankMurphy i'm bored at work, can ya tell? Yes. But thanks for contributing to the thread anyway
Isiskhan Gnostic Misanthropy	Posted - 2008.05.11 19:21:00 - [19] Originally by: Khan d'barr So what if they're Christian, Muslim, Athiest? Science is science, and what people have understood from Al Gore is completely incorrect. If you discredit scientific research because they're Christian, then you've got something wrong with you. Same goes for any other religion. The problem is not that the Discovery Institute are religious, the problem is that they are anti-science: that's what creationism and related doctrines are all about. You'll have as much luck trusting your "science" to them as trusting your kids to Michael Jackson.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.11 19:30:00 - [20] Originally by: Isiskhan The problem is not that the Discovery Institute are religious, the problem is that they are anti-science: that's what creationism and related doctrines are all about. You'll have as much luck trusting your "science" to them as trusting your kids to Michael Jackson. So.. what is your point? As far as I can see, Al Gore doesn't exactly use science either. In fact, neither does he use reason. On the other hand, these people makes more use of what is more science-ish. Just because you are biased, it doesn't mean everything you say, is wrong.
Isiskhan Gnostic Misanthropy	Posted - 2008.05.11 19:45:00 - [21] Originally by: LaVista Vista So.. what is your point? As far as I can see, Al Gore doesn't exactly use science either. In fact, neither does he use reason. On the other hand, these people makes more use of what is more science-ish. Just because you are biased, it doesn't mean everything you say, is wrong. I watched Al Gore's documentary and I didn't quite like it, it relied far too much on trying to appeal to the watcher's emotions. But the point is not Al Gore, he's not a scientist, just a politician, so pretty much irrelevant to the discussion. Climate change is about science, so you should listen to what the vast majority of climate scientists are saying about it. Not some organization that has made it their stated goal to override science and the teaching of it whenever they fancy it contradicts the word of their God. Or their lone professor guy with a chemistry background.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.11 19:51:00 - [22] Originally by: Isiskhan Originally by: LaVista Vista So.. what is your point? As far as I can see, Al Gore doesn't exactly use science either. In fact, neither does he use reason. On the other hand, these people makes more use of what is more science-ish. Just because you are biased, it doesn't mean everything you say, is wrong. I watched Al Gore's documentary and I didn't quite like it, it relied far too much on trying to appeal to the watcher's emotions. But the point is not Al Gore, he's not a scientist, just a politician, so pretty much irrelevant to the discussion. Climate change is about science, so you should listen to what the vast majority of climate scientists are saying about it. Not some organization that has made it their stated goal to override science and the teaching of it whenever they fancy it contradicts the word of their God. Or their lone professor guy with a chemistry background. So where are these climate scientists? I'm yet to hear what they have to say.
Isiskhan Gnostic Misanthropy	Posted - 2008.05.11 19:54:00 - [23] Edited by: Isiskhan on 11/05/2008 19:54:45 Originally by: LaVista Vista So where are these climate scientists? I'm yet to hear what they have to say. You either trolling or live under a rock. Instead of listening to charlatans from one side or the other, read a friggin' newspaper (or even better, science magazines / journals) once in a while and form your own opinions, I promise it won't hurt.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.11 19:55:00 - [24] Originally by: Isiskhan Originally by: LaVista Vista So where are these climate scientists? I'm yet to hear what they have to say. You either trolling or live under a rock. Instead of listening to charlatans from one side or the other, read a friggin' newspaper once in a while and form your own opinions, I promise it won't hurt. The latter. Oh, btw. I read 3 newspapers every morning(All the free ones at the train station) while taking a train. I'm yet to see them quote any credible source.
annoing Amarr MisFunk Inc. Daisho Syndicate	Posted - 2008.05.11 19:58:00 - [25] Of course, I totally belive these peope, these very same people who have absolutely no agenda at all. Not as an institute that premotes industry over enviromental issues, an institute that premotes 'end of days' philosophy over scientific evidence. Sure, its a myth. After-all all the evidence from all those other scientists -- I believe them, honest I do, would I lie to you? Dwi Cymraig
Jago Kain Amarr Ramm's RDI	Posted - 2008.05.11 19:59:00 - [26] OK. Let's assume for a minute that the cries of global warning are correct and that the polar ice-cap is melting. East Anglia and the Netherlands will shortly dissapear under a rising tide, whilst we get better summers and shorter winters. I fail to see the downside. Next. ___________________________________________________ The game will never be over, because we're keeping the meme alive.
Isiskhan Gnostic Misanthropy	Posted - 2008.05.11 19:59:00 - [27] Originally by: LaVista Vista Oh, btw. I read 3 newspapers every morning(All the free ones at the train station) while taking a train. I'm yet to see them quote any credible source. Well, perhaps you should consider better ones, or as I added above some accesible popular science magazines. I assure you that climate scientists have not been locked away to an underground prison in Uranus.
Khan d'barr Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.11 20:14:00 - [28] Originally by: Isiskhan Originally by: LaVista Vista So.. what is your point? As far as I can see, Al Gore doesn't exactly use science either. In fact, neither does he use reason. On the other hand, these people makes more use of what is more science-ish. Just because you are biased, it doesn't mean everything you say, is wrong. I watched Al Gore's documentary and I didn't quite like it, it relied far too much on trying to appeal to the watcher's emotions. But the point is not Al Gore, he's not a scientist, just a politician, so pretty much irrelevant to the discussion. Climate change is about science, so you should listen to what the vast majority of climate scientists are saying about it. Not some organization that has made it their stated goal to override science and the teaching of it whenever they fancy it contradicts the word of their God. Or their lone professor guy with a chemistry background. I'm sorry but if you watch the presentation, you would see that not once is religion mentioned/involved. Being pro-creationist is not anti-science. It's against evolution which is a) a different matter entirely and b) evolution can't be proved 100% with science. I don't know if you've done any research, but Al Gore's team's document/dossier thing was discredited by a very large majority of scientists around the world. This to me shows that it's complete media *******s.
Isiskhan Gnostic Misanthropy	Posted - 2008.05.11 20:19:00 - [29] Originally by: Khan d'barr Being pro-creationist is not anti-science. It's against evolution Congratulations, you just won the internet.
Khan d'barr Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.11 20:20:00 - [30] Oh wow, take that right out of context. Some scientists don't believe in evolution. Oh yeah, it's the THEORY OF EVOLUTION. See now, a theory isn't fact. So well done, you won nothing.

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