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Destruct Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.11 22:01:00 - [31] Originally by: Jon Hawkes Sorry bud, but you've got no idea how high morale still is in Insurgency. We've had some ***ing fights, netted a Titan kill, **ed a lot of alliances off and gained a lot of respect. Now we can look forward to not having to deal with an inbox full of POS screaming out for fuel every morning and run some smaller, less blobby and laggy gangs. I for one can't wait! i can't argue with that and i'm hoping for fun fights in the future (preferably without pos's involved). You can get more of what you want with a kind word and a gun than you can with just a kind word. - Al Capone
Lilan Kahn Amarr The Littlest Hobos Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.11 22:02:00 - [32] Originally by: Sasha Lyre Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Sasha Lyre I applaud your sentiments but would ask if you could comment on a few things. Are you now the spokesperson for insurgency and can you confirm that you took all those systems and placed all the many 100's of pos with the express intention of sellng them all? While none of us would argue with ur status of standings, when it was revealed on caod that you intended to invade one of ur neighbours and then negotiated 'nap' standings with Triumvirate, Phalanx Alliance, Destiny, ATF, to name a few, would you concede that you boarded a seperate 'naptrain', but perhaps not the train that your enemies were on? Surely your huge alliance, coupled with your new allies massive cap fleet and experienced pvpers could have provided more of a challenge for these northern monkeys, who were steam rolled by MC, easily ? As I said I'm just speaking for myself, its a personal perception not an official INSRG stance :) Selling the stations was discussed both during and after taking them. I can't say it was our definate plan, we didnt have a definate plan as we didnt expect to take the space. You're exaggerating the POS numbers somewhat, we originally had about 5 per station system so thats 20 rather than hundreds (/me shudders at the though of refueling hundreds). In the end, just before the NC arrived, we were starting to rent out the space as we werent using it for mining etc. Most of it was going to waste. You talk about the COAD revelation, but that was false intel. We didnt intend to assault RZR or MM at all. Firstly because we didn't think we could (Sov 4, and we knew the North would rally together in defence), and secondly we didn't want to. Our target was actually to remove SRBI from the area, and we did make a start on reinforcing their POS just a day before RZR & Co reset standings toward us. TRI were red to us until they offered assistance once the NC has started the steamroller. So I can't really comment on your last point, looks a little like trolling to be honest. As I've already said we had no plans or desire to assault RZR/MM space and nor did we think we could do so, even if we wanted to. Fair enough, good answer, so sounds like you were just defending your space and then were set upon by several alliances, as you say it seems strange that all these alliances banded together to attack you, especially iron as I see lots of join kills on their killboard. Are you being completely honest with us ? thats a prety fair time line yes, razor and dudes feel free to correct it if you disagree mean while in qcqa http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0805/Lilans_ownage_gameing.jpg "Bringing Content to you 1 round of ammo at a time"
Shirei Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.11 22:07:00 - [33] Originally by: Butter Dog You talk about the COAD revelation, but that was false intel. We didnt intend to assault RZR or MM at all. Firstly because we didn't think we could (Sov 4, and we knew the North would rally together in defence), and secondly we didn't want to. Our target was actually to remove SRBI from the area, and we did make a start on reinforcing their POS just a day before RZR & Co reset standings toward us. Yes, we know, INSRG never intends to do anything they do. Initially when you came up, it was all like 'ahhh, can we have blue standings, we just want to shoot people, not really intending to take any territory'. A month or two later it was 'ahhh, we'll just take this constellation, but we can still be blue, right?'. Yet a few months later it was then 'awww, we just want this one station here, but not interested in more, honest'. Yet a bit later it's 'we just want this constellation, honest, not intention of attacking any of you'. At some point, it became very hard to believe INSRG.. having them around with sov 4 was not something any of us could really accept.
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.11 22:10:00 - [34] Originally by: Sasha Lyre Fair enough, good answer, so sounds like you were just defending your space and then were set upon by several alliances, as you say it seems strange that all these alliances banded together to attack you, especially iron as I see lots of join kills on their killboard. Are you being completely honest with us ? Well, thats all I know personally, maybe there is some dark secret I don't know about but I doubt it. IRON was a shock to us too, because we'd gone out of our way to help them in the recent past. They didn't even tell us they were resetting standings. When NNC assaulted 304 constellation with 250 people, we stuck by IRON and helped defend their high-end moonmining POS (ironically against TRI and PA) with a 100 man BS fleet. Its true to say they wouldnt have that POS if it werent for our help. But thats their choice, I think the phrase is 'fair weather freind' :) ----------
Serena DeVire	Posted - 2008.05.11 22:13:00 - [35] Originally by: Shirei Yes, we know, INSRG never intends to do anything they do. Initially when you came up, it was all like 'ahhh, can we have blue standings, we just want to shoot people, not really intending to take any territory'. A month or two later it was 'ahhh, we'll just take this constellation, but we can still be blue, right?'. Yet a few months later it was then 'awww, we just want this one station here, but not interested in more, honest'. Yet a bit later it's 'we just want this constellation, honest, not intention of attacking any of you'. At some point, it became very hard to believe INSRG.. having them around with sov 4 was not something any of us could really accept. Paranoia, paranoia everyones coming to get me
Darko1107 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.05.11 22:13:00 - [36] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Sasha Lyre Fair enough, good answer, so sounds like you were just defending your space and then were set upon by several alliances, as you say it seems strange that all these alliances banded together to attack you, especially iron as I see lots of join kills on their killboard. Are you being completely honest with us ? Well, thats all I know personally, maybe there is some dark secret I don't know about but I doubt it. IRON was a shock to us too, because we'd gone out of our way to help them in the recent past. They didn't even tell us they were resetting standings. When NNC assaulted 304 constellation with 250 people, we stuck by IRON and helped defend their high-end moonmining POS (ironically against TRI and PA) with a 100 man BS fleet. Its true to say they wouldnt have that POS if it werent for our help. But thats their choice, I think the phrase is 'fair weather freind' :) Dont get me wrong i wasnt part of the decision making... But.... RZR are 3+ year old friends, MM are close to that aswell. We were always going to put them above you, it should not have come as a surprise.
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.11 22:16:00 - [37] Originally by: Darko1107 Dont get me wrong i wasnt part of the decision making... But.... RZR are 3+ year old friends, MM are close to that aswell. We were always going to put them above you, it should not have come as a surprise. To be fair you could have stayed out of it if you wanted to, given your friendly relations with both parties. You didnt have to join the gangbang. It was more the way it was done. We certainly didn't ask you to choose between us, but perhaps they did, I don't know. ----------
Ur235 Invicta.	Posted - 2008.05.11 22:28:00 - [38] As lnog as you guys are having fun even if it is a loosing war, the fun is all that matters its a internet spaceship game, so ignore all the ******** flaming alts. In the end its the fun that metters
thetwilitehour Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.11 22:54:00 - [39] I have to say I'm pretty puzzled by Insurgency's tone of injury throughout all their threads. They've admitted the leadership of RZR/MM and others wanted to include them as trustworthy partners in the North, and they refused. Did you think an aggressive space conquering alliance in our backyard, that continually made demands on us would somehow be tolerable? Truthfully I think Insurgency somehow bought their propaganda that Northern entities are carebear alliances and unwilling to fight. Ultimately when Insurgency was unwilling to do what it took to remain on friendly terms, they forced entities such as Iron and others to choose sides. Is it a big surprise that our long time friends sided with us, as opposed to the people who attacked our blues while we were busy fighting BoB?
MineralOel Steuer Amarr OP EC	Posted - 2008.05.11 22:59:00 - [40] I think some peopke like butter dog don't get eve 0.0 politic. The key is diplomacy and tbh Darth solo failed at it miserably, same goes to Darkness Insurgency is atm the biggest single Alliance in the North (numberwise, you always complain about razor not fighting alone, while you have more numbers than any other alliance up there). And Bob won't save you. you will get from them the same assistance like LV, MPIRE&CO, YW got, nice words on the Forums and maybe a nice const.in the south, for a little discount ofc.
Scared Mofo Minmatar Diamonds inc.	Posted - 2008.05.11 23:00:00 - [41] Originally by: Darko1107 Dont get me wrong i wasnt part of the decision making... But.... RZR are 3+ year old friends, MM are close to that aswell. We were always going to put them above you, it should not have come as a surprise. I agree with Darko, but nonetheless IRON's involvement in this war was instrumental since it really looked like MM+RZR+MH+Hydra+Pure+ the whole NNC coalition of alliances (not sure how many they are) were getting a little bit pwned by TRI/INSRG with the retake of all the stations, the countless capital and the titan kills. In this moment i see only a few alliances in EVE that have the balls to fight for space even when heavily outnumbered. I do not dare to imagine EVE without BOB, TRI or INSRG who still bring it, all the others are just scared carebears napping everything around them = fact.
darth solo Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.11 23:01:00 - [42] haha, its gonna get good, real good. d solo.
MineralOel Steuer Amarr OP EC	Posted - 2008.05.11 23:07:00 - [43] Originally by: darth solo haha, its gonna get good, real good. d solo. hey maybe you have time to get a job now and can move out from you'r moms basement, like Darkness did lately.
Cptn Chaos Terror Formers	Posted - 2008.05.11 23:32:00 - [44] Originally by: MineralOel Steuer Originally by: darth solo haha, its gonna get good, real good. d solo. hey maybe you have time to get a job now and can move out from you'r moms basement, like Darkness did lately. and someday maybe you grow a spine..
MineralOel Steuer Amarr OP EC	Posted - 2008.05.11 23:49:00 - [45] Originally by: Cptn Chaos Originally by: MineralOel Steuer Originally by: darth solo haha, its gonna get good, real good. d solo. hey maybe you have time to get a job now and can move out from you'r moms basement, like Darkness did lately. and someday maybe you grow a spine.. hey Insurgency posting with ALT's? aren't you busy losing Stations, Freigthers and Carriers?
Serena DeVire	Posted - 2008.05.12 00:02:00 - [46] Originally by: MineralOel Steuer Originally by: Cptn Chaos Originally by: MineralOel Steuer Originally by: darth solo haha, its gonna get good, real good. d solo. hey maybe you have time to get a job now and can move out from you'r moms basement, like Darkness did lately. and someday maybe you grow a spine.. hey Insurgency posting with ALT's? aren't you busy losing Stations, Freigthers and Carriers? Any more Titans and faction POS you want to lose or are you going to stop there?
Shurkon Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.05.12 00:19:00 - [47] Originally by: Serena DeVire Any more Titans and faction POS you want to lose or are you going to stop there? Yes I'm sure those 18 tower losses have absolutely crippled Razor. If they'd actually lost more towers than Insurgency you might have a point.
Serena DeVire	Posted - 2008.05.12 00:42:00 - [48] Originally by: Shurkon Originally by: Serena DeVire Any more Titans and faction POS you want to lose or are you going to stop there? Yes I'm sure those 18 tower losses have absolutely crippled Razor. If they'd actually lost more towers than Insurgency you might have a point. My point was 'oh look I can smack too'. Seriously, if people are just gonna join in to smack either side (I have a lot of respect for most parties involved, on both sides) then tbh I'm gonna do it back. Razor and co are in it to win, Insurgency and friends are in it for fun. In the long run however the NC haven't won anything. They've been bled over 280 BILLION ISK in ships alone to claim back 4 outposts Insurgency didn't pay for, it's taken them five weeks and the combined forces of 9 alliances yet Insurgency are still alive, they are still in 0.0 and they are still going to be a gigantic pain in the collective arses of the Northern Coalition. If your want to claim that as a victory then it's an extremely phyrric (wtb spellchecker that knows that word ) one.
MineralOel Steuer Amarr OP EC	Posted - 2008.05.12 00:51:00 - [49] Originally by: Serena DeVire Any more Titans and faction POS you want to lose or are you going to stop there? last time I checked, no Titan lose for my corp/alliance wow Insurgency ALT, not only you fail ig but also on the forums no corp ticker ftl
Shurkon Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.05.12 00:52:00 - [50] Well, if you're going to bring K:D up I think you'll find it's not as favourable to Trisurge as you make it sound. Yes NC has lost a lot, about 250bil if you remove friendly 'kills' from Insurgency's campaign stats, but it's not like they haven't been killing a lot of **** too. If you glance at Tri and INSRG losses you'll notice that they total about the same (230bil or so). Bleeding NC of 280bil hasn't exactly been done on a budget eh?
MineralOel Steuer Amarr OP EC	Posted - 2008.05.12 00:58:00 - [51] Originally by: Serena DeVire Originally by: Shurkon Originally by: Serena DeVire Any more Titans and faction POS you want to lose or are you going to stop there? Yes I'm sure those 18 tower losses have absolutely crippled Razor. If they'd actually lost more towers than Insurgency you might have a point. My point was 'oh look I can smack too'. Seriously, if people are just gonna join in to smack either side (I have a lot of respect for most parties involved, on both sides) then tbh I'm gonna do it back. Razor and co are in it to win, Insurgency and friends are in it for fun. In the long run however the NC haven't won anything. They've been bled over 280 BILLION ISK in ships alone to claim back 4 outposts Insurgency didn't pay for, it's taken them five weeks and the combined forces of 9 alliances yet Insurgency are still alive, they are still in 0.0 and they are still going to be a gigantic pain in the collective arses of the Northern Coalition. If your want to claim that as a victory then it's an extremely phyrric (wtb spellchecker that knows that word ) one. check google/wiki for sense Pyrrhic victory would be the titan that got killed from Razor (pathetic alliance, still they don't suck at diplomacy which is why they are better than TRIsurgency).
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.05.12 01:21:00 - [52] Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 12/05/2008 01:21:12 Originally by: MineralOel Steuer Pyrrhic victory would be the titan that got killed from Razor (pathetic alliance, still they don't suck at diplomacy which is why they are better than TRIsurgency). Ya know - if we wanted we could get half of EVE blue easily. Come to their door "mutual blue?" "yes please" - thats how it works 99% of the time. But having blues = no fun.
Gunny Fisher VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.05.12 01:30:00 - [53] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Sasha Lyre Fair enough, good answer, so sounds like you were just defending your space and then were set upon by several alliances, as you say it seems strange that all these alliances banded together to attack you, especially iron as I see lots of join kills on their killboard. Are you being completely honest with us ? Well, thats all I know personally, maybe there is some dark secret I don't know about but I doubt it. IRON was a shock to us too, because we'd gone out of our way to help them in the recent past. They didn't even tell us they were resetting standings. When NNC assaulted 304 constellation with 250 people, we stuck by IRON and helped defend their high-end moonmining POS (ironically against TRI and PA) with a 100 man BS fleet. Its true to say they wouldnt have that POS if it werent for our help. But thats their choice, I think the phrase is 'fair weather freind' :) Then you went and set Tri Blue iirc.
Yaay Game-Over Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.12 01:34:00 - [54] Originally by: thetwilitehour I have to say I'm pretty puzzled by Insurgency's tone of injury throughout all their threads. They've admitted the leadership of RZR/MM and others wanted to include them as trustworthy partners in the North, and they refused. Did you think an aggressive space conquering alliance in our backyard, that continually made demands on us would somehow be tolerable? Truthfully I think Insurgency somehow bought their propaganda that Northern entities are carebear alliances and unwilling to fight. Ultimately when Insurgency was unwilling to do what it took to remain on friendly terms, they forced entities such as Iron and others to choose sides. Is it a big surprise that our long time friends sided with us, as opposed to the people who attacked our blues while we were busy fighting BoB? Some people have more pride than nap fest allow. Good for them, they'll always be more capable of having fun as a result. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=619019IT'S THE ECONOMY STUPID
Kusotarre Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.12 01:37:00 - [55] Edited by: Kusotarre on 12/05/2008 01:37:31 Not too proud to try and surrender, though, amirite?
Yaay Game-Over Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.12 01:41:00 - [56] Originally by: Kusotarre Edited by: Kusotarre on 12/05/2008 01:37:31 Not too proud to try and surrender, though, amirite? 700 in local camping stations kinda does that to ya, good job. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=619019IT'S THE ECONOMY STUPID
Triab Gallente Black Prophecy	Posted - 2008.05.12 01:42:00 - [57] Edited by: Triab on 12/05/2008 01:43:19 Misread
Onionico Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.05.12 02:08:00 - [58] I felt this thread needs this.
BoB sucks Burning Bush Enterprises	Posted - 2008.05.12 02:09:00 - [59] Originally by: Yaay Originally by: Kusotarre Edited by: Kusotarre on 12/05/2008 01:37:31 Not too proud to try and surrender, though, amirite? 700 in local camping stations kinda does that to ya, good job. In this conflict, we hotdrop 160 caps on a frieghter
Veldya Caldari Shadow Industries Corpororation Limited	Posted - 2008.05.12 02:47:00 - [60] I think Insurgency would be better suited to an NPC region. A place you don't really have to worry about working with others around you. You will get your pew pew there and you will have a region of space which can support your alliance. Leadership and Diplomacy is needed for conquerable space and it is a cosmic failure when all your neighbors are pounding you into submission. If the North wants to be able to survive if BoB heads north again then they need everyone in the region working together. That is probably something the other alliances up there need to consider, do they want to be part of a unified North or are they just a wannabe BoB pet that needs to be removed before they turn on the NC when BoB comes "home".

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