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Trading best isk making profession?

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Gregory Brunswick Flashpoint Industries The ROC 3	Posted - 2012.03.04 20:25:00 - [1] - Quote How do others feel? For me, tradings seems to be the best isk making venture in terms of time invested and returns. There are some other things that can be done that will make more isk but as far as I know, they all require more time invested and more of a grind. Trading requires a low sp investment and you don't need to work with anyone else. The only barrier to entry is initial isk investment and a little bit of knowledge which is basically buy low and sell high.
OfBalance Caldari State 100	Posted - 2012.03.04 21:39:00 - [2] - Quote Answer the following: -Are you patient? -Are you comfortable with excel? -Are you unable to fit or fake a decent incursion loadout? -Are you unwilling to bot (this is a good thing)? -Are you unwilling or unable to sell loads of cash-bought PLEX? If you answered 'yes,' to all of the above, then trading just might be the best source of isk for you.
Darth Tickles Northstar Cabal Fatal Ascension 37	Posted - 2012.03.05 01:04:00 - [3] - Quote Scamming.
Nedes Betternaem Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2012.03.05 06:09:00 - [4] - Quote Darth Tickles wrote: Scamming. I had really hoped that the EVE community had enough common sense to make scamming one of the least profitable professions.
Drizz Oskold Social Democratic Capitolists 0	Posted - 2012.03.05 06:29:00 - [5] - Quote Nedes Betternaem wrote: Darth Tickles wrote: Scamming. I had really hoped that the EVE community had enough common sense to make scamming one of the least profitable professions. Send me 2 billion ISK and if I don't send you back 4 you will have your answer
Scion Lex LEX Investments Solid Foundation 5	Posted - 2012.03.05 06:38:00 - [6] - Quote Trading is an exceptional broad term imo. This could mean anything resulting from the buylow/sellhigh concept. What it comes down to is what you do once you see a reasonable profit margin. Are you reselling from the location you aquired it or are you moving it? If so how? Are you making a few big invesments or are you blanketing a market with buy orders? If so how are you moving that? Then there is the fact that the market can turn on you leaving you with a holding the bag...literally. To keep from being surprised by market flux or to give yourself room to absorb the difference you start doing spreadsheets....which is time consuming. Mining is consistant. Other than the equiptment, skills and number of people involved you know how much you are going to make per hour within a million or two....or you should at least. Missions are money in the bank, plan and simple. Best of all mission profits come down to whether or not you are being lazy. So I would say Trading has the greatest potential in that it has greatest variance in profit potential. But its not the best isk making career by default. Id say cap production probably trumps it because you are not just manufacturin money, but also political influence.
Kara Books Deal with IT. 87	Posted - 2012.03.05 07:13:00 - [7] - Quote I find it relaxing. Its good to know you can count on some extra ISK at the end of the day, knowing that it took skill to acquire, almost every day you learn something new, that makes you just a little tiny bit better makes you feel a little bit more confident to pull that stunt off you have bin contemplating for weeks while your busy with daily life. Sometimes, after a long roam, a battle, or just running combat against NPC's perhaps with other people, you log into your merchant, or merchants, go over your orders, chat a little, its a good profession to get into.
flakeys Arkham Innovations Paper Tiger Coalition 214	Posted - 2012.03.05 08:20:00 - [8] - Quote What the hot girl above said really , it's a nice laid back way to earn some extra isk.Depending on what/where and with how much isk is what factors if it is more profitable then something else or not. Only thing i can think of wich can earn a good amount of isk with even less effort is what i do currently , research pos's but that's a crapload more of an isksink to make it high profits , but then it also allmost takes no effort.
Bad Bobby Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 35	Posted - 2012.03.05 14:36:00 - [9] - Quote Gregory Brunswick wrote: How do others feel? For me, tradings seems to be the best isk making venture That would depend on a lot of things... It depends on how good you are at trading compared to the alternative isk making ventures. Gregory Brunswick wrote: in terms of time invested You have to consider how much time you want to invest and how often. Gregory Brunswick wrote: and returns. You have to consider how much isk you can invest in it and for how long. Gregory Brunswick wrote: and more of a grind. You imply by this that your criteria aren't restricted to time and returns. You also care about how interesting, enjoyable or challenging the venture may be. Gregory Brunswick wrote: Trading requires a low sp investment and you don't need to work with anyone else. You also consider low SP investment and independence a benefit. So really, the question is quite complex and can only really be answered by looking at all the alternatives. Of course, if you haven't tried the alternatives it can be difficult to make a good analysis.
Bad Bobby Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 35	Posted - 2012.03.05 14:58:00 - [10] - Quote We might as well get the obvious alternative out of the way first... Darth Tickles wrote: Scamming. Time Investment? Highly variable, you can really take your pick. T4U took a lot of time and I can think of several other big scams that were very slow burn. However, there are far more examples of small scams with very little time investment and no great need to commit to them long term. I think you can pretty much work with whatever you have in this area. Isk Investment? Highly variable, there is a scam for every wallet size. It compares favourably with trading. With T4U I had a big chunk of isk invested in it, but that isk was actually borrowed from MD using a seperate set of bonds so I only needed to be able to pay the interest on those for as long as I needed the isk. Returns? Highly variable, but generally high provided you aren't bad at it. It compares favourably with trading. Interesting? Fun? Challenging? Nothing makes you scam in a boring, unfun and easy way. But you can do if you want. I'd say it compares favourably with trading. SP requirement? Independence? It requires no more SP or dependence on others than trading.

Bad Bobby Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 35	Posted - 2012.03.05 15:18:00 - [11] - Quote Let's deal with another obvious one... OfBalance wrote: -Are you unable to fit or fake a decent incursion loadout? Time Investment? Considerable. Higher than trading. Each time you want to do this you need to get to an incursion with your ship(s), find and join a suitable group and then work plexes for as long as care to. It also helps if you do it frequently and spend time networking with other incursion runners so that you can get into better and more profitable groups quickly and easily. As far as PvE activities goes this isn't one of the better ones for minimising time investment. Isk Investment? Moderate. It has a higher starting bar than trading but a much lower cap. You need to be able to field a ship that will get accepted into fleets, that will cost you more than starting up as a trader. However there is a cap to how much isk you can effectively invest in an incursion running ship and that the return on additional investment in often questionable. Returns? Moderate. Starts out fairly well but doesn't scale like trading does. 100m isk per hour as a rough guide, if you are competent and with a competent fleet. You can exceed that, but not by much without multi-boxing, micro-managing your LP exchange (i.e. trading) or taking an unorthadox approach. Low-sec and 0.0 fleets are more profitable, for a marginal increase in risk if you are competent and with a competent fleet. 200m isk per hour as a rough guide. Interesting? Fun? Challenging? At first perhaps, but it soon becomes repetitive as is the case with most PvE. SP requirement? Independence? It requires more SP than trading and a lot more SP if you want to maximise returns. Scores badly on independence... you are going to have to play with other people unless you adopt a highly unorthadox approach.
Bad Bobby Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 35	Posted - 2012.03.05 15:36:00 - [12] - Quote So how about wormholing? Time Investment? Variable, tending towards very high. More than trading. You can do it casually, but for the higher income levels the tendancy is to live in a C5 or C6 wormhole and invest a massive amount of time on making isk and carrying out supporting logistical activities. Isk Investment? Variable, tending towards high. Starts well, scales quite well at first but caps out lower than trading. You can start with a cheap battlecruiser, but for the higher income levels the tendancy is to multi-box dreadnaughts, carriers and other fairly expensive vessels. If you are setting up your own wormholing operation then you may need a POS and other infrastructure, although there are unorthadox approaches that allow you to avoid that. Returns? Highly variable and difficult to pin down. The practical cap is somewhere in the region of 1b isk per account per hour of PvE, but you have to be pretty hardcore to achieve that. Unorthadox strategies can yield higher returns, more mundane approaches tend to be in the region of 100m/hour. For the average person Incursions are more profitable, for the hard core wormholer the returns are quite impressive. Interesting? Fun? Challenging? Can be, but it depends on your taste. For the average person it will be good to start with and will tend to become dull. SP requirement? Independence? It requires more SP than trading and a lot more SP if you want to maximise returns. Can be solo, but often rewards co-operating with others.
Bad Bobby Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 36	Posted - 2012.03.05 16:04:00 - [13] - Quote So how about FW Missions? Time Investment? Fairly low. Better than incursions and wormholing, probably higher than trading. In my experience you should set aside 2 hours for a session of FW missioning, less would be inefficient. Isk Investment? Fairly low. The starting point is a cheaply fit stealth bomber, the cap can be quite high depending on your approach. Returns? In the 100m/hour ballpark for an entry level player with an unoptimised approach. 200m/hour once you've got you know what you are doing (without pimped ships). Higher can be achieved with multi-boxing and various pimped setups. Unorthadox approaches can increase the rewards considerably to the point that this becomes the highest paying PvE you can do without a supercapital. However, it is worth noting that any significantly advanced method of making isk from FW is barely distinguishable from trading. Interesting? Fun? Challenging? Can be. The PvE element becomes fairly repetitive but mercifully it doesn't take long. SP requirement? Independence? More SP than trading, particularly as trading is part of it. You can put a lot of SP into it, but you don't have to. Can be solo, can be done with others, you can take your pick there.
Bad Bobby Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 36	Posted - 2012.03.05 16:06:00 - [14] - Quote One of the wonders of eve is that there are just so many different ways to play and make isk, but I think I've covered the mainstream competitors there.
Bad Bobby Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 36	Posted - 2012.03.05 16:10:00 - [15] - Quote Scion Lex wrote: Trading is an exceptional broad term imo. Indeed. Pretty much every way to make isk involves trading somewhere.
Ozzie Asrail Exploited 2	Posted - 2012.03.05 17:07:00 - [16] - Quote Trading is really the only straight forward way to make your isk earn you more isk in EVE. Missions, incursions, mining, wormholes are all usually a set isk/hour. Sure you can get better ore belts or a shinier ship to make more cash but once you're mining Ark in deep 0.0 and running incursions in your 5bil navy raven it doesn't really matter if you have 1bil or 100bil in your wallet because that capital won't help you. So it's "best" in that respect.
Bad Bobby Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 40	Posted - 2012.03.05 19:57:00 - [17] - Quote Ozzie Asrail wrote: Trading is really the only straight forward way to make your isk earn you more isk in EVE. I disagree, although you might be taking a very wide definition of trading that includes all the other things I can think of (investments for example). Ozzie Asrail wrote: Missions, incursions, mining, wormholes are all usually a set isk/hour. There isn't a hard cap to any of those, it's a soft cap like with trading. You can push your earnings higher and higher and it gets harder and harder to progress them further and eventually you will hit the limit imposed by your ability, method and resources. I think what you actually mean is that for the average person you'll reach that cap at a much lower isk/hour from these PvE activities than you will with trading.
Tidurious Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension 144	Posted - 2012.03.05 20:35:00 - [18] - Quote For the time and effort put into trading, I believe that it is an excellent source of income. It takes limited training, and if you're trading trends and not playing the .01-ISK game, it doesn't take much time (updating once per day is sufficient). However - for trading to be very profitable, you need to have a significant amount of ISK (say, 1B) to start with. It takes a LONG time to go from, say, 100m to 1B, but after that , it gets much easier.
Ozzie Asrail Exploited 3	Posted - 2012.03.05 20:57:00 - [19] - Quote Yea you're right I was thinking for the average player. Investing/loans are a whole different ball game, as is moving to things like cap production, moongoo or serious T2 BPO's. For PvE going from a T2 fit to a faction fit faction BS will be a big improvement. Will going officer/deadspace really make that much more isk in an hour or two of L4's to have good ROI? Same with incursions, shiny ships are all good but to really clear sites super fast you need a good gang too.
Kara Books Deal with IT. 87	Posted - 2012.03.06 06:31:00 - [20] - Quote My dear, investing in strangers, requires collateral, or face almost certain losses if you do it more then once, its really that simple.

Bad Bobby Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 44	Posted - 2012.03.06 06:41:00 - [21] - Quote Ozzie Asrail wrote: For PvE going from a T2 fit to a faction fit faction BS will be a big improvement. Will going officer/deadspace really make that much more isk in an hour or two of L4's to have good ROI? I can't really comment with authority on L4 missioning as I have no recent experience, unlike the other alternatives I've discussed in this thread. When I did do L4 missioning I think I would have to classify my approach as unorthadox anyway, so it would not have matched the experience of the average player. I multiboxed cherry-picked missions using a pair of gank fit Nightmares, I left all loot and salvage to another player who had an arrangement to give me half of his take, my standings gain was shared out via the gang to customers paying for a standings service and my LP was converted to valueable goods which then went into my trading. I guess that my approach was reasonably close to optimal back then, but it wouldn't get close to Wormholes and FW missions now, in fact it would struggle to match Incursions. Faction prices were high back then, so even faction fitting had questionable merit. Nowdays faction is highly affordable and relatively easy to justify, but I doubt officer/deadspace fits are truely worthwhile for the average player even now.
Bad Bobby Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 44	Posted - 2012.03.06 08:30:00 - [22] - Quote Kara Books wrote: My dear, investing in strangers, requires collateral, or face almost certain losses if you do it more then once, its really that simple. Maybe if you are bad at it. I've been investing in MD for what, 6 years, give or take? How many losses have I suffered? Calgorac: I think it was 500m invested, Calgorac went missing so I lost my investment. Fortunately the total interest payments received over this long running bond means that I still made a profit. Inigo Firebird: I invested a few billion, he scammed after running the bond for many months. Fortunately he was a member of The Dirty Rotten Scoundrels so I only had to ask him nicely to get my money back. That's it... Except I think I invested 50m in Rawcola many years ago and I have no idea how that ended... but who can understand Rawcola anyway? I've seen many other regular MD investors state that they have made a profit overall. I don't think it's purely down to luck either, MD investment is not just a roll of the dice.
papamike Precipice Industries 13	Posted - 2012.03.06 11:28:00 - [23] - Quote You forgot PI Bobby. And Mission Running too. And mining?
Chevalleis The Legendary Conquest Pandorum Invictus 109	Posted - 2012.03.06 11:36:00 - [24] - Quote PI can't really be classified as one of the best isk making professions. Maybe with a horde of alts you could rake in a couple billions a month, but you would use it all to plex your accounts. It's more like a passive sidejob than anythng.
Bad Bobby Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 44	Posted - 2012.03.06 11:57:00 - [25] - Quote papamike wrote: You forgot PI Bobby. And Mission Running too. And mining? Yes, that was deliberate. Mainstream mission running isn't really a viable choice if you are trying to maximise your earnings. I ignored PI along with all other industrial activities because it's far too complex a subject and ultimately reliant on having lots of accounts for any kind of scale. I didn't think any comparison to the alternatives I did list would be appropriate. Mining... well, I simply have no experience from which to base any assessment of it.
Scrapyard Bob EVE University Ivy League 738	Posted - 2012.03.06 21:09:00 - [26] - Quote papamike wrote: And mining? Solo hulk pilot can pull in about 100k m3 of ore per hour (give or take 5%), hook up with an orca and that boosts 40-65% (so 2 hulks + 1 orca makes a lot of sense). Hi-sec ores are mostly in the 120-150 ISK/m3 range right now (so theoretical hulk pilot makes 12-15M per hour solo). Now, the in past, hi-sec ores have been worth as little as 60-70 ISK/m3. Right now is a bit of a mini-boom for the miners due to the heavy demand for trit/pye/mex. But then, PI also has ebbs and flows, so does ice mining.
zythyl The Scope Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.03.07 13:49:00 - [27] - Quote Tidurious wrote: For the time and effort put into trading, I believe that it is an excellent source of income. It takes limited training, and if you're trading trends and not playing the .01-ISK game, it doesn't take much time (updating once per day is sufficient). However - for trading to be very profitable, you need to have a significant amount of ISK (say, 1B) to start with. It takes a LONG time to go from, say, 100m to 1B, but after that , it gets much easier. Could you please elaborate on this as well as how one would go about determining / identifying said trends? Or in particular, whether extra research would be required?
Medai Kesrith Kel'anthein 0	Posted - 2012.03.08 11:57:00 - [28] - Quote About LvL 4 missioning, i'm currently testing how much you can get. Setup: 1x Gank pimped Machariel with full set damage imps, no booster Alt 2x Alts with standing 2x Systems within 1jump 1st one Minmatar L4 Agent with System real sec 0,52 2nd one Amarr L4 Agent with System real sec 0,56 Farming Blockade and Dread Pirate Scarlet Blockade (vs Angel Cartel only) has 2 different setups, one with 21.4m and one with 17.8m bounty (except the trigger to finish the mission) Dread Pirate Scarlet differs depending on what Faction is spawning but it's around 32m bounty (except the trigger to finish the mission) ISK/h (pure mission time) Blockade is ~13mins > 98m/h or 82m/h depending which setup you get Dread Pirate Scarlet is ~21mins > 91m/h Problem in Dread Pirate Scarlet are Guristas which costs you about 1-2min per mission depending on how often you get jammed. I can get with 2 agents and 3 chars 6 missions per day and can farm them for 1week, all missions within 1jump or same system. Calculation per day for 6x Blockade best setup 128m with 78mins pure mission time, add some extra mins for warp and jump. Roughly i need 85mins to make 128m each day that are 90m/h. You won't get any LP or loot doing this but you are completely independent, stationary and no struggle with mates or logistics etc. You can either decline (make sure you don't kill your faction/corp Standing) missions until you get the Blockade/Dread Pirate Scarlet or cherry pick the other semi good ones and farm some LP until you get another Blockade/Dread Pirate Scarlet.
Bad Bobby Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 50	Posted - 2012.03.08 13:31:00 - [29] - Quote Medai Kesrith wrote: 428m/h .... i doubt there is any other profession which makes that ISK/h ratio. It's difficult to effectively compare the isk/hour on different professions like this. Your trading makes 428m per active hour invested, but a large part of the profession involves waiting for contracts to be accepted. It's a predominantly afk profession. Various methods of scamming can easily exceed that yield and similarly most scams are a waiting game. There are plenty of industrial activities that also generate a lot of isk per active hour invested, but they involve massive investment and not inconsiderable risk. Farming C5/C6 wormhole escalations will generate far more isk worth of loot per hour, but converting that loot into isk requires that you have a route back to normal space. The farming itself involves the use of capitals, which has a fairly large SP requirement, and requires multi-boxing. Farming 0.0 anoms with a Titan generates huge isk per hour, and it's raw isk delivered directly to your wallet, but obviously the barriers to entry in that profession are considerable. Farming FW missions is extremely lucrative, if you figure out how to effectively cash in all the rewards, with 1000m/h being entirely possible (speaking from personal experience) but figuring out how to achieve that is not a trivial exercise.
Sven Hammerstorm Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 14	Posted - 2012.03.09 19:24:00 - [30] - Quote Bad Bobby wrote: [quote=Medai Kesrith] Farming FW missions is extremely lucrative, if you figure out how to effectively cash in all the rewards, with 1000m/h being entirely possible (speaking from personal experience) but figuring out how to achieve that is not a trivial exercise. Just have a few alts and it suddenly isn't very hard. 1b/h might be pushing it though..



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