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Patent Pending
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Posted - 2008.05.13 18:50:00 -
[1]
There are no available research or copying station slots anywhere. Having flown through 8 different regions searching for one I gave up. Players who can do multiple research jobs all have these slots monopolized, there is no way whatsoever that a starting research character can start in the profession.
Building own empire POS is impossible for those who are not ridiculously wealthy... and empire stations are topped. Why is this?
CCP needs to fix this.
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Matthew
Caldari
BloodStar Technologies
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Posted - 2008.05.13 18:58:00 -
[2]
They're all full not because they are too few, but because the NPC's are charging far to little for their use, encouraging people to do levels of research that should really be uneconomical.
If CCP expanded the supply of NPC slots at the current NPC prices to a point that alleviates the queues, they will destroy the player-run POS lab market overnight. That's not going to happen.
If they make the NPC slot prices float based on demand, then the player-run POS labs will become more price competitive, pointless research will get priced out of the market (quite rightly), and there is unlikely to be a need to add a significant number of new NPC slots.
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There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
Shionoya Risa
The Xenodus Initiative.
Overclockers Podpilot Services
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Posted - 2008.05.13 19:09:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Matthew
If CCP expanded the supply of NPC slots at the current NPC prices to a point that alleviates the queues, they will destroy the player-run POS lab market overnight. That's not going to happen.
Not exactly kill, but it will reduce the demand. The only things I have to compete with the NPC labs is the time bonus and the waiting times. There is no way I can compete in price however. Removing the wait times in NPC stations by vastly increasing slot numbers will leave me with one option; the time bonus. The question is, will people want to pay extra for that?
Adding lots more slots to the NPC stations will probably steal a great amount of custom from research POS operators, but adding only small numbers might not actually have that much of an impact.
PS, They really do not cost that much..
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Pwett
Minmatar
QUANT Corp.
QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2008.05.13 19:33:00 -
[4]
CCP did fix this.
I'll rent you a single ME slot for 10 mil a month.
and a small POS doesn't cost much at all to setup or maintain.
_______________
Pwett
CEO, Founder, & Executor
<Q> QUANT Hegemony
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Carlton Foster
Gallente
Torque Industries
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Posted - 2008.05.13 19:40:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Carlton Foster on 13/05/2008 19:40:46
Well I'm kinda new here but I will throw in my two cents.
I personally don't like NPC's doing anything that players can do. I like the idea of a player driven research economy. I think a better thing to do would be get rid of NPC research slots and in it's place create better built-in mechanisms for players to utilize player ran research facilities. My opinion anyway 
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Bad Bobby
Ugly Toys
Zzz
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Posted - 2008.05.13 19:44:00 -
[6]
An empire POS isn't that expensive to build and run, but for those on a tight budget the best bet is to join a research alliance (like ZZZ) and use the slots that are available to alliance members with little to no queues. These slots are faster but more expensive than NPC slots, as the previous poster mentioned. I can guarentee you 25k installation fees and 14k per hour rental on .75 time ME slots that are available right now. I can also offer you .65 time copy slots available right now.
This is the reason why CCP does not need to fix this because there are many excellent solutions available to you that are provided by the community and CCP would not wish to sabotage these player built resources.
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Gilahan Mcortama
A-L-O-N-E
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Posted - 2008.05.13 19:48:00 -
[7]
Is there a list of corps providing services I have asked few times in want adds without replies. There should be sticky here for people looking for services and forget want adds.
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Bad Bobby
Ugly Toys
Zzz
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Posted - 2008.05.13 19:55:00 -
[8]
Do you mean this sticky?
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Xonox Galatorg
Gallente
Pulsar Combat Supplies
Alternative Realities
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Posted - 2008.05.13 20:05:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Carlton Foster
Edited by: Carlton Foster on 13/05/2008 19:40:46
I personally don't like NPC's doing anything that players can do. I like the idea of a player driven research economy. I think a better thing to do would be get rid of NPC research slots and in it's place create better built-in mechanisms for players to utilize player ran research facilities. My opinion anyway
I really like this idea as well. I do some of my research in Zzz on an alt. It'd be even nicer if I could utilize these slots and not have to be in an alliance. I would think you still be able to set some sort of permission (based on standing?) to use it or be allowed to even make it a public research slot. Obviously the copy and invention slots would need to be "fixed" since people won't be able to actually go to your POS (probably).
-Xonox
Pulsar Combat Supplies, Director of Production and POS |
Spud Gunn
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Posted - 2008.05.13 20:24:00 -
[10]
Get a POS, rent a POS, join a corp with a POS, or suck it up and accept a 20-day queue in empire before your research actually starts.
Unfortunately it's a bit of a self-perpetuating issue, as the longer people need to wait for a queue, the more likely they are to research something for far longer than is really necessary just because they don't want the wait to have been for nothing.
The fact that queue times are pretty much static whereever you go, and don't seem to be changing hugely, kind of suggests that the market has already decided on an appropriate "value" for waiting on an empire queue over taking alternate measures. Hell, you can easily shave 10 days off your wait time just by moving to a more expensive and/or lowsec installation- which also kind of suggests that the people waiting in those empire queues don't really put that much value on their waiting around.
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Marcus Xavier
Minmatar
Xavier Institute for Higher Learning
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Posted - 2008.05.14 00:34:00 -
[11]
Plenty of empty material research slots in NPC nullspace. Go ahead, take the risk.
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Mutatis Mutandis |
Gilahan Mcortama
A-L-O-N-E
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Posted - 2008.05.14 01:39:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Bad Bobby
Do you mean this sticky?
Sweet thanks. Guess I should have looked in sells thats one more thread I'll be looking at while I should be working
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Kobushi
OCForums
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Posted - 2008.05.14 02:53:00 -
[13]
One idea we could toss is to make slots (both PE and ME) be submitted to supply and demand, the more used and in demand a group of station slots is the higher it's cost. Both the startup cost and the hourly rate would be calculated separately, so low number of timely research would cost a bit to startup and be expensive to run for any extended period and would cost prohibitive isk to try and block a slot.
Sort of like the rent system for offices, the higher the demand the higher the price for the slot, it could also apply to the industrial slots...
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.14 06:37:00 -
[14]
While having the ME/PE following supply and demand will be the right solution for players with some game experience in eve and resources it will be a real pain for starting industrialists. Practically it would mean that a player that want to be a builder will be incapable of researching the BPO till he has several teens of million to invest in the research alone. He couldn't even think about researching frigate BPO.
In no time the public slots would be priced at the level that experienced players are willing to pay, cutting off young players.
I would think nothing of paying 300K for a day of research but a player just starting the industrial path and struggling to get a cruiser will see it as a huge sum.
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Shadowsword
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.05.14 09:46:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Patent Pending
Building own empire POS is impossible for those who are not ridiculously wealthy... and empire stations are topped. Why is this?
CCP needs to fix this.
Nope.
I wasn't all that rich when I got my own R&D pos. 1 billion isn't all that much these days, and having that to do a bit of filtering is a good thing.
Invention require a minimum of dedication to it. That's a good thing, because there's already enough inventors in the market that margins become fairly small. The market definitely doesn't need more inventors without the dedication to do some investment, and/or market research
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Zzz
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Posted - 2008.05.14 10:00:00 -
[16]
I have a number of copy slots available for anyone willing to work within my corp. Contact me if interested.
/shameless plug
My research services
Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats |
RaTTuS
BIG
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Posted - 2008.05.14 11:22:00 -
[17]
they are not full - you may have to wait but they are not full , just slap a job in,
this is much better than when you could rent a slot for a month and as logn as it was doing somehting you got to keep i t...
--
BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve
5th Anniversary Lottery
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Bado Sten
Minmatar
Sten Industries
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Posted - 2008.05.14 12:41:00 -
[18]
Running a small research tower does not cost all that much, but you can also rent from other players. Lookup my corp information in game if interested.
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Do you need research services for your blueprints? We have available slots in Metropolis region. Look up my bio for info! |
Jimmy Cliff
Dawning Industries
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Posted - 2008.05.14 15:13:00 -
[19]
One way to help a fix on this ould be to have prices variations by demand.
With a lot of demand, prices rise, just like any other NPC sold asset.
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Bad Bobby
Ugly Toys
Zzz
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Posted - 2008.05.14 15:58:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
I have a number of copy slots available for anyone willing to work within my corp. Contact me if interested.
/shameless plug
Hey! I got here first! :)
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Lord Fitz
Antares Fleet Yards
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.14 17:40:00 -
[21]
People needed to be around when there was actually no slots available (and no queue so you couldn't 'wait' for one) so it was actually IMPOSSIBLE to do research, so that they know how good they have it now.
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Dr Stratton
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Posted - 2008.05.14 18:12:00 -
[22]
Research in empire is screwed up and that includes NPC labs, alliance research and even using your own POS.
Queuing up a job for a 30 day wait time or more is ludicrous. I will never understand those in this thread that are recommending that anyone do it. Not only do you tie up your asset (BPO) for 30 days longer than required, but you also clog up 10% of your skill bandwidth assuming you can run 10 jobs at a time with adv lab ops 4 trained. Let's see you set up a 36 hour copy job that takes 31.5 days to complete... For long and longer jobs it gets more and more rational to use npc station queues.
ME is the only thing I would do (and did) using alliance assets and remote research skill. Relying on a GM to retrieve your copies or invented T2 BPCs (which I dont think they even do anymore) absolutely stinks. I had a GM do it once, before I realized that alliance research was broken, and then I set upon a course for my own pos. Hopping regions, stations and systems to do some research here and some research there and more research way over there absolutely sucks, too. You must centralize to make it worth doing.
I put up the investment for a research pos recently for my corp. It is by far the best way to do research in empire, but it still has its drawbacks, even after all that investment. CCP has a clunky science and industry interface that takes (relatively) forever to install and manage research jobs on the scale I wish and at the level of involvement I am at (modules mainly). Most module copies take a day and a half because CCP has new restrictions on max copies and max runs to help alleviate the NPC station queues. I had envisioned timing my jobs to finish every week or more to minimize the un-fun micromanagement of research. Until I get into more complicated research that takes longer or until CCP rewards those who have put in the grind to afford their own pos by unrestricting research times in their own labs, even private research isn't the be all end all for researchers and industrialists.
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Gridwalker
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.05.14 18:35:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Patent Pending
Building own empire POS is impossible for those who are not ridiculously wealthy... and empire stations are topped. Why is this?
CCP needs to fix this.
Putting up an empire POS is only impossible for people without the motivation or capacity to work hard for what they want to achieve. If you want one, figure out how to make it happen and do it.
I wasn't ridiculously wealthy when I put up my POS. If I was able to do it, why can't you?
-Grid
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Jurgen Cartis
Caldari
Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
Nex Eternus
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Posted - 2008.05.14 19:05:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Jurgen Cartis on 14/05/2008 19:06:55
Building your own Empire POS is hardly impossible. Admittedly, doing it solo is a probably a pain in the neck, but that's what corpmates are for. Get a few friends together and drop a Small Tower in an out of the way .5 somewhere, enjoy.
Trust me, zero queues are worth it.
Have you checked the queues in lowsec though? Way back in 2006, I did all my research in Amarrian low security space for shorter queues. I rarely had to wait more than a week, and never lost a BPO. My poor lab rat alt though, didn't leave Raraveth for months.
This is of course, not recommended if you have no clue on survival in lowsec.
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ICE Blueprint Sales
FIRST!! -Yipsilanti
Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth |
Gimpb
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Posted - 2008.05.22 18:08:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Gimpb on 22/05/2008 18:10:12
Edited by: Gimpb on 22/05/2008 18:08:09
Originally by: Jimmy Cliff
One way to help a fix on this ould be to have prices variations by demand.
With a lot of demand, prices rise, just like any other NPC sold asset.
A similar solution that's much easier to implement would be this:
Increase the range of research slot prices on npc stations.
Simple.
The low cost ones will have long waits and the high cost ones will have low or no waits. Best of all, it wouldn't require coding, just tweaking of some numbers.
Assuming its increased enough, the end results are as follows:
1. There is a low wait option for those willing to pay the premium.
2. There is a low cost option for those willing to wait.
3. The increased average research costs overall make pos research more attractive.
Honestly, I think this is how they intend it to be but the costs just aren't high enough to create the desired effect.
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Pwett
QUANT Corp.
QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2008.05.22 18:25:00 -
[26]
Let me make me pos labs public and I will drop 50 large research pos in a week.
_______________
Pwett
CEO, Founder, & Executor
<Q> QUANT Hegemony
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steejans nix
0beron Construct
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Posted - 2008.05.22 18:37:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Pwett
Let me make me pos labs public and I will drop 50 large research pos in a week.
So will a lot of others, supply will outstrip demand then people will have their cheap slots !
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TheBlueMonkey
BlueBlock
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Posted - 2008.05.23 09:02:00 -
[28]
As much as the total lack of available research\copy slots really bugs me they defiantly don't need more.
There being none free in empire just encourages people to setup pos's which in turn encourages people to either mission to get standings or venture out into 0.0
I find it opens up the game by forcing my hand as it were.
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If there's no profit to be made you need to travel further afield.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.23 09:40:00 -
[29]
Research/copy/manufacture slots in NPC stations should follow the exact same style of pricing that corp offices in NPC stations do... no free slots, prices keep going up with no maximum limit... one free slot, no change in price... two or more free slots, prices keep going down to minimum.
1|2|3|4|5 |
Letrange
Chaosstorm Corporation
Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium
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Posted - 2008.05.23 14:11:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Akita T
Research/copy/manufacture slots in NPC stations should follow the exact same style of pricing that corp offices in NPC stations do... no free slots, prices keep going up with no maximum limit... one free slot, no change in price... two or more free slots, prices keep going down to minimum.
This
(Ok, I'm biased, since my corp is a high sec POS owning/operating corp for the alliance and this would substantially increase the value of my corp)
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