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The Murder of Kammas Grayli

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Shern Minmatar Delictum 23216 San Matari.	Posted - 2008.05.14 05:43:00 - [1] I am horrified at the ritual killing of Kammas Grayli reported in the media. This sort of atrocity has no place in a civilised society. This horror must not be allowed to shake the ceasefire between Mandate and Republic. It is clear that rogue elements within the Republic are trying to inflame the situation for their own political gain. They must not succeed. My prayers are with his family and with the republic investigators who are trying to bring his kidnappers and murderers to justice.
Vlad Cetes Caldari Misfits Enterprises Critical Dissent	Posted - 2008.05.14 05:46:00 - [2] This ritual killing has all the makings of "for encouragement of others". The ideal solution to send the correct message to future criminals would be to summarily try and publicly execute those responsible. I do not see why man should not be just as cruel as nature.
Stitcher Caldari legion of qui Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.14 08:51:00 - [3] "Encouragement"? hardly. If anything, such a show of making a gruesome example of Grayli might be calculated to discourage anyone who feels like imitating the crimes he was suspected of. I suspect that we'll never know for certain. Something tells me that his murderers are never going to be brought to justice over this. - Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.05.14 09:03:00 - [4] Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 14/05/2008 09:02:54 Originally by: Shern This horror must not be allowed to shake the ceasefire between Mandate and Republic. It is clear that rogue elements within the Republic are trying to inflame the situation for their own political gain. They must not succeed. There is nothing much to add to the above. I will say this, though: the attitude towards Justice Department representatives by Tobias Efrit do not serve the Republic in a way that one would expect from a parlamentarian. If the comments on public were meant to reassure us that the Krusual tribe was not behind this act, but that it was done by rogue members, the hostility displayed did not really serve that purpose. Elsebeth Rhiannon Sebiestor Citizen of the Republic -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Scagga Laebetrovo Delictum 23216 San Matari.	Posted - 2008.05.14 09:09:00 - [5] It is necessary to note that the view voiced here is personal. At this time the San Matari have not made an official statement regarding the unlawful killing of Mr Grayli. San Matari Official forums
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.05.14 09:12:00 - [6] Is that to imply that San Matari's stance differs from Shern's, Lord Laebotrovo? Elsebeth Rhiannon -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Scagga Laebetrovo Delictum 23216 San Matari.	Posted - 2008.05.14 09:12:00 - [7] Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon Is that to imply that San Matari's stance differs from Shern's, Lord Laebotrovo? Elsebeth Rhiannon No. The statement says what it says. San Matari Official forums
Stitcher Caldari legion of qui Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.14 09:45:00 - [8] Was it really necessary, then? Captain Shern specifically stated "I am horrified" at the start of her comment. I believe the tacit assumption on this board is that the opinion being expressed is personal, unless it is explicitly stated otherwise, rendering your disclaimer redundant. Speaking of which, what's your personal opinion, Captain Laebetrovo? - Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris	Posted - 2008.05.14 10:16:00 - [9] I think that it's clear that he was killed by the real perpetrators in order to silence him. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.05.14 10:42:00 - [10] Originally by: Rodj Blake I think that it's clear that he was killed by the real perpetrators in order to silence him. It is understandable you would be confused about this, but to take the trouble of the outcast markings does not really speak for a silencing kill, but rather for a deliberate act of vengeance. Of course, a clever silencer might have counted on that -- especially if that party was someone who had little respect for Marks and tradition... Elsebeth Rhiannon -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Stitcher Caldari legion of qui Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.14 11:08:00 - [11] Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon Of course, a clever silencer might have counted on that -- especially if that party was someone who had little respect for Marks and tradition... Of course, such a person might not be very dilligent, and would presumably get the Marks wrong. I'm fairly certain that if I were ever to try using them to cover my tracks (not that I ever would, or would need to) I'd not be able to get them right, through simply not having been properly schooled in that particular tradition. - Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.05.14 11:18:00 - [12] Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 14/05/2008 11:20:11 I think that with briefing and practice I might get them right, even for another tribe. Of course, it is very possible I might be overconfident here. Then again, I am not in the category of "little respect for Marks and tradition", exactly, so it would take quite an extreme situation for me to try and fake it. But hypothetically, if you assume a conspiracy with a well-planned operation, it is not inconceivable. Elsebeth -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Uilliam Nebel Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2008.05.14 11:30:00 - [13] Well one thing I suspect after reading that ISD news, Tobias Efrit is involved with it somehow. I doubt he was the one holding the garrote about Kammas Grayli's throat. But a group as secretive has Krusual parliamentarian don't bother answering questions they don't know the whole truth about, even when they are lying. The fact he was willing to speak on it publicly is a communication not for the public. But to those trying to get to the bottom of this. If I had to guess what the real message Efrit is delivering on behalf of whom ever is behind this is I'd say it is along the lines of, 'You can't stop me.' / "Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in getting up every time we do." - Confucius, Chinese philosopher & reformer (551 BC - 479 BC.)
Kvirie Caldari Children of the Wind	Posted - 2008.05.14 12:01:00 - [14] Edited by: Kvirie on 14/05/2008 12:03:53 Originally by: Stitcher "Encouragement"? hardly. If anything, such a show of making a gruesome example of Grayli might be calculated to discourage anyone who feels like imitating the crimes he was suspected of. So does this mean you'd support the same punishment for those that have been attacking Caldari citizens in the Federation and defacing historical landmarks? His death smells of someone covering their tracks though, a shame the Republic couldn't get him secured in time, he probably would've given his life story eventually.
Stitcher Caldari legion of qui Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.14 12:08:00 - [15] There's a huge difference between speculation and endorsement, Captain Kvirie. - Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris	Posted - 2008.05.14 13:14:00 - [16] Originally by: Stitcher Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon Of course, a clever silencer might have counted on that -- especially if that party was someone who had little respect for Marks and tradition... Of course, such a person might not be very dilligent, and would presumably get the Marks wrong. I'm fairly certain that if I were ever to try using them to cover my tracks (not that I ever would, or would need to) I'd not be able to get them right, through simply not having been properly schooled in that particular tradition. If the perpetrators were from the Republic, they would get the markings right. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Stitcher Caldari legion of qui Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.14 13:45:00 - [17] Assuming they're from the same tribe, you're quite right there. And there's no reason why a skilled man couldn't learn how to do them properly anyway. I suspect that, assuming there is a conspiracy behind this murder, then the skill of its perpetrators would be such that such an obvious mistake just wouldn't be made. I was just making idle speculation, really. - Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain.
Haraldhardrade Amarr Pax Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.14 14:30:00 - [18] Ritual killing? How primitive, it's like a window into the pre jumpgate technology era. Caveo of Minmatar , torva vacuus regimen of deus es plurrimi periculosus of bestia
Scagga Laebetrovo Delictum 23216 San Matari.	Posted - 2008.05.14 14:35:00 - [19] Originally by: Stitcher Was it really necessary, then? Captain Shern specifically stated "I am horrified" at the start of her comment. I believe the tacit assumption on this board is that the opinion being expressed is personal, unless it is explicitly stated otherwise, rendering your disclaimer redundant. Speaking of which, what's your personal opinion, Captain Laebetrovo? Absolutely, but I am not at liberty to discuss this at this time. San Matari Official forums
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.05.14 15:11:00 - [20] What benefit would it be for the Republic to cause this mess? Or even to the secessionists? Elsebeth -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Stitcher Caldari legion of qui Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.14 15:17:00 - [21] "not at liberty"? ...Captain, you ARE allowed to have an opinion that has not been officially sanctioned by your corporation, you know. This isn't an alliance message board, this is a forum for topical discussion, where you can give your opinion on a subject as opposed to the officially-sanctioned one handed down from your CEO. Your opinion does not need to have been given the rubber stamp of approval before you voice it here. If you really must, just add the disclaimer "the opinion contained in this post does not reflect that of my corporation and/or alliance" at the end. - Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain.
Kudon Astraisx Minmatar 17th Minmatar Tactical Wing Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.05.14 15:29:00 - [22] Originally by: Haraldhardrade Ritual killing? How primitive, it's like a window into the pre jumpgate technology era. I am unsure whether to feel disturbed or elated by the fact that an Amarrian pilot and I agree on this. --
Haraldhardrade Amarr Pax Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.14 15:54:00 - [23] Originally by: Kudon Astraisx I am unsure whether to feel disturbed or elated by the fact that an Amarrian pilot and I agree on this. Hello Kudon. Ever considered joining the Ammatar? Caveo of Minmatar , torva vacuus regimen of deus es plurrimi periculosus of bestia
KillJoy Tseng Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.05.14 16:41:00 - [24] Well, that's just lovely. I wish I could say I'm very surprised. Leaving side the man himself, this is especially troubling in that hey, the perpetrators just left a complete inability to acquire accurate evidence towards whoever was behind the man, or if anyone was behind him, or even if he was responsible. One thing though; I have to object to the idea that someone being tortured to death and marks carved into him is somehow unique to Matari.
Kudon Astraisx Minmatar 17th Minmatar Tactical Wing Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.05.14 16:41:00 - [25] My comments should not be interpreted by anyone as an endorsement of any Amarr policies, the existence of the Mandate, or anything else. It is my belief that the Republic itself should be the focus of Minmatar allegiance, and that extralegal ritual killings do not serve any lawful nor moral purpose in the defense of our homeland. I imply nothing further nor should anything further be inferred by any party. --
Tyr Vaantau Amarr Synthetic Frontiers	Posted - 2008.05.14 16:52:00 - [26] What if he was murdered to prevent the possible "Ammatar connections" from coming to a greater light? ------
Liliann	Posted - 2008.05.14 16:59:00 - [27] Edited by: Liliann on 14/05/2008 16:59:43 (( ******* forum keeps on forgetting my default char... this is Else's stuck petition alt :P ))
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.05.14 17:01:00 - [28] If said connections exist, I doubt a murder can conceal them for any length of time. -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
3ll3 Gallente Tranquillity Nation	Posted - 2008.05.14 18:19:00 - [29] I may be stating the obvious but it feel to me like some die hard's from all the factions in the mandate may or may not have been responsible in order to escalate things back into all out war once more. Of course I could be totally and utterly wrong as usual.
Garion Avarr Amarr Zero Zero Traders YTMND.	Posted - 2008.05.14 18:41:00 - [30] Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon What benefit would it be for the Republic to cause this mess? It would not be of benefit -- that does not mean that some in the Republic, or who purport to work for the Minmatar in general, might not wish to cause a war, for various reasons. By the same token, I firmly believe that war would not be in the best interests of the Empire, and yet there are certainly those in the Empire who seem to work for war. That said, I do not think that it was any coincidence where he was found, as Efrit suggests. No, the location of the body, combined with the manner of the killing, points, I think, to one of two things: either the Krusual Tribe killed him, or someone wishes to make it look as if they did -- and is being perhaps a little obvious about it. ________________________________ This is not a signature.

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