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Znathsume
Caldari
ironwood ink
Friend or Enemy
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Posted - 2008.05.15 21:18:00 -
[1]
I understand that insurance goes off the base price of minerals that made the ship, but i think its annoying that you cant insure a T2 to its full worth.
I bought a Golem (Marauder) for 750mil...for 47mil i would get the ship insured for 150mil only.....i lost the ship on a storyline earlier, lost 750mil and cant afford a new one haha
anyhoo just wondered what the reason was tbh |
Recon Three
181st Legion
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Posted - 2008.05.15 21:19:00 -
[2]
Player driven economy? |
Znathsume
Caldari
ironwood ink
Friend or Enemy
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Posted - 2008.05.15 21:25:00 -
[3]
well not really....it costs about 600mil to make a Golem (tho on market it sells for 7500...so how can i only insure it for 150mil? |
Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2008.05.15 21:30:00 -
[4]
Because the base mineral cost is all that's insured, not the expensive T2 components?
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
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Izvilistiy
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Posted - 2008.05.15 21:30:00 -
[5]
I think we have to go to the base issue here, and that is, if you have the skills to fly a golem how the hell did you lose it on a storyline mission  ? I only fly a CNR and rape/tank everything without ever worrying.
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Marine HK4861
Caldari
Radical Technologies
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Posted - 2008.05.15 21:31:00 -
[6]
Again, player driven economy.
Mineral and T2 components prices on the market are set by players, which is why it costs 600mil to make a Golem, not 150mil.
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Ne nehn
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Posted - 2008.05.15 21:34:00 -
[7]
When T2 ships were launched you could insure them the same way as other ships. Fully insure even.
That made them a lot more popular, and price increased. There were less and less moon minerals left on the market, and price increased some more.
Thats how it works really, there is simply not enough moon minerals to support fully insurable t2 ships. If I could take 6 CS's a day out to combat the same way I can with BS's. I would.
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Arkios Odymei
Incarnation of Evil
Nocturnal Legion
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Posted - 2008.05.15 21:36:00 -
[8]
You can insure the ship to its full worth... just not its full MARKET VALUE. The amount you insure it for is the cost or the minerals used to make it. As said before, PLAYER DRIVEN ECONOMY. Unlike T1 items and ships, there are not an unlimited easily accessable source of blueprints for T2.
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Znathsume
Caldari
ironwood ink
Friend or Enemy
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Posted - 2008.05.15 21:38:00 -
[9]
Lost it on storyline mission A Case for Kidnapping
Got to 4th stage and got agrrod by all....was getting dmged faster then i was repping...but was warb scrambled so had no chance lol
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr
Naval Protection Corp
Carpe Universitas
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Posted - 2008.05.15 21:39:00 -
[10]
 Originally by: Ne nehn
When T2 ships were launched you could insure them the same way as other ships. Fully insure even.
That made them a lot more popular, and price increased. There were less and less moon minerals left on the market, and price increased some more.
Thats how it works really, there is simply not enough moon minerals to support fully insurable t2 ships. If I could take 6 CS's a day out to combat the same way I can with BS's. I would.
Here's your answer pretty much, enjoy.
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Ne nehn
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Posted - 2008.05.15 21:46:00 -
[11]
The solution to this problem would be to implent more T1 shiptypes though. The only viable solution atleast.
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Asestorian
Domination.
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.15 22:04:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Ne nehn
The solution to this problem would be to implent more T1 shiptypes though. The only viable solution atleast.
A viable solution to what exactly?
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Quote:
Welcome to EVE, a PvP game where people are - shockingly - allowed to PvP as much as they like.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.05.15 22:21:00 -
[13]
How could you even calculate full worth given the price swings in T2 components?
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Lord WarATron
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.05.15 22:35:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Znathsume
I understand that insurance goes off the base price of minerals that made the ship, but i think its annoying that you cant insure a T2 to its full worth.
I bought a Golem (Marauder) for 750mil...for 47mil i would get the ship insured for 150mil only.....i lost the ship on a storyline earlier, lost 750mil and cant afford a new one haha
anyhoo just wondered what the reason was tbh
A year ago, the cost in minerals and components to build that golem was far cheaper than what is it currently. Most of that pricetag is from player made stuff and obviously they need a margin and high demand for t2 components means high prices.
CCP have a default price for components and obviously this is not reflected by market prices. If it was, then someone would build a 1 isk ship and sell it to his second account for 10 billion and insure it for such and self destruct to make free isk.
Thats why CCP only insure mineral value and not player value.
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Billion Isk Mission |
E Vile
The Older Gamers
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.05.16 00:02:00 -
[15]
If you could insure it at player market value people could make them and pop them for a big profit because it takes alot less value of minerals to make it.
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Jin Entres
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2008.05.16 00:31:00 -
[16]
I think the whole concept of insurance undermines the important risk aspect of the game, and that the problem is too much insurance on T1 ships rather than too little on T2. When you compare cost efficiency between T1 and T2, you will see that the advantage where it's not a unique role offered (such as recons) is fairly small.
For the most part, a T1 battleship will outperform a T2 command ship, a T1 battlecruiser will outperform a T2 cruiser unless it fills a special role such as Eagle or Vagabond and a T1 cruiser will outperform a T2 assault frigate. The situation is such that the downsides to flying a larger ship class are quite small and the alternative applications for T2 ships so few that it is often much more viable to pick the bigger T1 ship that will not only fare better but also represent only a fraction of the risk in ISK compared to T2.
I would not advocate for the complete removal of insurance, but I think some healthy middle ground between the current high safety and full hardcore would be good: say cap insurance at 50% or something. Though I have no qualms with suicide ganking (I've done it myself, too), it's a good example of how cheap losing T1 battleships is. Invention brought down T2 module prices so drastically that fitting any ship with T2 is cheap in relation to the ship price. Rigs obviously work to increase risk, which is a positive recent addition.
But the 'risk basket' for a commonly T2 fit T1 BS is no more than about 30 to 40 million ISK (and for T1 fit suicide ships it's even less) which is quite fast to recoup with just about any method of income. It would only do good to raise that bar by 10 to 20 million or so (which still keeps it cheap imo).
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Derek Sigres
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Posted - 2008.05.16 02:16:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Jin Entres
I think the whole concept of insurance undermines the important risk aspect of the game, and that the problem is too much insurance on T1 ships rather than too little on T2.
Insurance is what makes the risk of PVP worth the effort. I don't subscribe to the notion that most fairly vetern Eve players are able to farm hundreds of millions of isk per day without spending every second thinking about maxamizing income and spending most of the game day farming cash. Most people who play Eve probably have jobs (given the average age of Eve players seems to be fairly high for a MMO).
Small scale PVP and piracy is one thing - one can partake in a great deal of such things without losing ships if they're smart. This is the reason T2 ships are popular for this sort of work - their advantages in small gang combat outweigh the significant financial risks.
On the other side of the coin, in actual fleet combat your survival is largely dependent upon luck. Without insurance most alliance wars would be over after a handful of battles because even the wealthiest of alliances can't afford to replace an entire armada of fleet fitted ships without insurance.
Even when you take insurance into account my Scorpions (which are perhaps the MOST insurable battleship - you damn near make a profit when they pop) generally cost 10 - 20 million isk to replace. God forbid I chose to rig the things - replacement of a rigged scorpion can easily top 70 million isk. Without insurance to mitigate risks to acceptable levels fleet battles wouldn't happen - 0.0 would literally be a stalemate because a side would never commit it's force to an action where victory was anything less than assured.
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Ortos
Abyssus Incendia
THORN Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.16 07:14:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Ortos on 16/05/2008 07:16:18
Originally by: Derek Sigres
Originally by: Jin Entres
I think the whole concept of insurance undermines the important risk aspect of the game, and that the problem is too much insurance on T1 ships rather than too little on T2.
Insurance is what makes the risk of PVP worth the effort. I don't subscribe to the notion that most fairly vetern Eve players are able to farm hundreds of millions of isk per day without spending every second thinking about maxamizing income and spending most of the game day farming cash. Most people who play Eve probably have jobs (given the average age of Eve players seems to be fairly high for a MMO).
Small scale PVP and piracy is one thing - one can partake in a great deal of such things without losing ships if they're smart. This is the reason T2 ships are popular for this sort of work - their advantages in small gang combat outweigh the significant financial risks.
On the other side of the coin, in actual fleet combat your survival is largely dependent upon luck. Without insurance most alliance wars would be over after a handful of battles because even the wealthiest of alliances can't afford to replace an entire armada of fleet fitted ships without insurance.
Even when you take insurance into account my Scorpions (which are perhaps the MOST insurable battleship - you damn near make a profit when they pop) generally cost 10 - 20 million isk to replace. God forbid I chose to rig the things - replacement of a rigged scorpion can easily top 70 million isk. Without insurance to mitigate risks to acceptable levels fleet battles wouldn't happen - 0.0 would literally be a stalemate because a side would never commit it's force to an action where victory was anything less than assured.
I will halfway call shenanigans on this.
If there was no insurance, t1 ships would cost a fraction of what they do now. Right now T1 ship prices are decided by the insurance value. If insurance wasent there a t1 battleship would perhaps only cost 15m.
And for that sake, if you could mine minerals needed for t2 production the same way you can mine minerals needed for t1. T2 ships would reach near insurance costs aswell.
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Furb Killer
The Peacekeeper Core
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Posted - 2008.05.16 07:18:00 -
[19]
yeah when veldspar would mysteriously drop to 0.5 isk per unit.
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Ortos
Abyssus Incendia
THORN Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.16 07:24:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Furb Killer
yeah when veldspar would mysteriously drop to 0.5 isk per unit.
When I get killed in a typhoon. Fully insured one.
60m passes on to another player
20m goes out of game
75m goes in to game
Everytime a battleship dies, 55m is inserted out of thin air in to the game.
How do you think that has affected trit prices over the past years silly? =)
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Jawbreaker x
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Posted - 2008.05.16 07:31:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Jawbreaker x on 16/05/2008 07:32:35
Next time warp in and wait until a group aggroed to you and only shoot that group ,dont use drones until you want full stage agroo
Edit:Moving away is nice idea if you have not got faction/deadspace booster or to be at safe side
Originally by: Znathsume
Lost it on storyline mission A Case for Kidnapping
Got to 4th stage and got agrrod by all....
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Ralara
Caldari
D00M.
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Posted - 2008.05.16 07:39:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Znathsume
I understand that insurance goes off the base price of minerals that made the ship, but i think its annoying that you cant insure a T2 to its full worth.
I bought a Golem (Marauder) for 750mil...for 47mil i would get the ship insured for 150mil only.....i lost the ship on a storyline earlier, lost 750mil and cant afford a new one haha
anyhoo just wondered what the reason was tbh
You can insure them to their full "worth".
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"I didn't join Triumvirate, I joined D00M.". |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.05.16 07:48:00 -
[23]
Insurance, even of T1 ships, is what's causing the inflation - massive influx of ISK into the economy. Last thing we need is more of that.
I refuse to respect religious beliefs, and i refuse to respect people who hold them. |
Ralara
Caldari
D00M.
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Posted - 2008.05.16 07:51:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Insurance, even of T1 ships, is what's causing the inflation - massive influx of ISK into the economy. Last thing we need is more of that.
There is no inflation :)
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"I didn't join Triumvirate, I joined D00M.". |
AKULA UrQuan
Caldari
Druuge Crimson Corporation
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Posted - 2008.05.16 08:04:00 -
[25]
Heh....
The thought of Ralara doing his thing with an Astarte rather than the standard Brutix..
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Ortos
Abyssus Incendia
THORN Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.16 08:11:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Ralara
Originally by: Sokratesz
Insurance, even of T1 ships, is what's causing the inflation - massive influx of ISK into the economy. Last thing we need is more of that.
There is no inflation :)
That prices remain stable doesnt mean there isent a large influx of money into the game.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
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Posted - 2008.05.16 08:17:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Ortos
Originally by: Ralara
Originally by: Sokratesz
Insurance, even of T1 ships, is what's causing the inflation - massive influx of ISK into the economy. Last thing we need is more of that.
There is no inflation :)
That prices remain stable doesnt mean there isent a large influx of money into the game.
Exactly. The average player now is alot richer than the average player 2 or 4 years ago, newbies are flying bigger ships ever quicker and a BS loss has been reduced from a 'severe blow' to a 'minor inconvenience', and this isn't helping eve in any way. Just look at the amount of supercaps dying with sh!tty fittings, so many people haven't a clue what to do with all their isk so they waste it on expensive toys they haven't a clue of how to fly.
tldr; eve needs more isk sinks
I refuse to respect religious beliefs, and i refuse to respect people who hold them. |
Zakgram
Atomic Heroes
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.16 10:22:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Derek Sigres
because even the wealthiest of alliances can't afford to replace an entire armada of fleet fitted ships without insurance.
How nice, an alliance that replaces fleet losses.
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Riho
Gallente
Mercenary Forces
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.16 10:25:00 -
[29]
IMO insurance should be removed all together... i cba to insure most ships i have.. only BS i bother whit... for the 20 minz they last if i fly them :P
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Yes... this is my main.
Extreme Troll Slayer...
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Infinity Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.05.16 10:32:00 -
[30]
For last time i will try to exmplai.
T2 ships prices are not anywhere close basedon the sum of the resources use don them. at least for T2 bpo holders.
So if you make t2 ships insurable by MARKET price (they are now 100% insurable by mineral price as of the BASE value non regulated by human action), then the best market in universe would be: ahve a t2 ship bpo, build ships insure and blown up . You would recive much more isk than you used.
And THAT woudl be a problem. Woudl in fact diminish the t2 ships offer at market and prices would go up. THen insurance goes up and even invention starts to give proffit by doing this... and cycle will never end.
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If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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