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Rejoice! First CCP made EVE Battleground is released: Black Rise

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MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.05.16 07:17:00 - [31] Originally by: Haks'he Lirky Originally by: MotherMoon according to your logic each system is instanced because you have to use a stargate to get into it. That would probably be accurate if the term "zone" would not all ready be used for those mechanics. I added more examples.
RedLion Caldari Polaris Project Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.16 07:18:00 - [32] Edited by: RedLion on 16/05/2008 07:22:18 Come on people, think about how much this is a copy of initial Alterac Valley in wow, (not that wow is bad in any way): - Ranking: check - Instanced/rigged: half check - Scoreboard: checked - Running around doing missions instead of PvP: check - Players dropping tags usable for different stuff: check Open your eyes people :) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - The Gallenteans must be destroyed - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.16 07:18:00 - [33] Originally by: Kuolematon When some area is created for specific players to enter, it's instance. Even if you claim that complexes in EVE aren't those (CCP hired FunCom's people who made first dynamic instances for AO to make complex in EVE) they infact ARE - with a twist naturally. In EVE anyone can enter that instance opposite to major rule of "certain people". But in this case, "certain" people is other people in EVE who gain access to that instance via other methods than gang invite (aka. Party). So .. twist your words how you like, it's instanced fightning. It has been stated several times, that everyone can enter that places, not specific players. The ware zones are not multiple copies of the same place, like instances are. It's like the front lines in a war. Even if you do a FW mission, according to the live dev blog a beacon will be created so that everyone can get in your mission and start killing you. That's the idea of factional warfare, not that you do a mission in a hidden place, but that you will have pvp encounters while completing your task. If you think ranks and medals are copied from wow, well, then i guess even Julius Caesar or Napoleon or any modern armed forces copied this from WoW
Morphisat Rakeriku Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2008.05.16 07:19:00 - [34] Siege weapons in the next expansion

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2008.05.16 07:24:00 - [35] Wonder if there will be any Veldspar in those new systems... Secure 3rd party service ■ Do you Veldspar?

Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.05.16 07:24:00 - [36] Originally by: Chribba Wonder if there will be any Veldspar in those new systems... <3 I refuse to respect religious beliefs, and i refuse to respect people who hold them.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.05.16 07:27:00 - [37] Originally by: RedLion Edited by: RedLion on 16/05/2008 07:22:18 Come on people, think about how much this is a copy of initial Alterac Valley in wow, (not that wow is bad in any way): - Ranking: check - Instanced/rigged: half check - Scoreboard: checked - Running around doing missions instead of PvP: check - Players dropping tags usable for different stuff: check Open your eyes people :) players aren't dropping tags, NPCs are, just like they have forever Scoreboard? that shouldn't count every game has this rigged combat? umm... allaince warfare? rankings? ok yeah I'll give you that one running around doing missions? yes that is the ONE thing I agree with you on 100%, and ou know what, before they nerfed those missions into nothing that is a great idea, you can do PVE to make the PvP work, I like this idea, however in eve it will not be effected a 30 min match it will be effecting a real time battleground. And actually wow does have what eve is doing, but it's not battleground, it's that world PvP zone with the towers that have 1 hour times out wherever that place is. but that has no rewards so people don't do it.
Caiman Graystock Quantum of Solace	Posted - 2008.05.16 07:51:00 - [38] You do know, EVE has had instances forever, you know what deadspace is, right? Please, go listen to the live dev blog, because this is nothing like battlegrounds, and many of your 'facts' are wrong.
maarud Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2008.05.16 07:56:00 - [39] Originally by: Kuolematon When some area is created for specific players to enter, it's instance. Even if you claim that complexes in EVE aren't those (CCP hired FunCom's people who made first dynamic instances for AO to make complex in EVE) they infact ARE - with a twist naturally. In EVE anyone can enter that instance opposite to major rule of "certain people". But in this case, "certain" people is other people in EVE who gain access to that instance via other methods than gang invite (aka. Party). So .. twist your words how you like, it's instanced fightning. In that case, instanced PVP has been around since complexes first came out, since anyone could scan out someone doing a complex in low sec and pop them. There's still nothing stopping extra ppl crashing the party. Instanced fighting usually refers to a place to fight A vs B and no one else can interfere. You're sandbox is still there, now go troll somewhere else. Maarud. Proudly a Ex-BYDI member
Adonis 4174	Posted - 2008.05.16 08:05:00 - [40] It's only rigged in the same way as cosmos missions are rigged. There were plenty of them where if enemies wanted to come in and jump you they were limited by ship size. Did they say that the biggest limit was T1 cruiser sized though? That sounds kinda small. ---- Infiniband can do more than just prevent lag

Aodha Khan Minmatar The Paratwa FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.05.16 08:24:00 - [41] Originally by: Nate D The ideas of factional warfare in EVE have been around for far longer than WoW's release to the public. -Nate Ultima Online had factional warfare more than 10 years ago. Cmon people, WoW is just a copy of what went before it. Nothing groundbreaking there at all. Paratwa Recruitment
maarud Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2008.05.16 08:25:00 - [42] Originally by: Adonis 4174 It's only rigged in the same way as cosmos missions are rigged. There were plenty of them where if enemies wanted to come in and jump you they were limited by ship size. Did they say that the biggest limit was T1 cruiser sized though? That sounds kinda small. There is no limits on ships, only most (not all) will have gates, so no cap ships. Maarud. Proudly a Ex-BYDI member
Mioelnir Minmatar KULT Production Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.05.16 08:28:00 - [43] My understanding: Factional Warfare Missions: - have probably gates - are in hostily space - become overview beacons for everyone once entered - are easier than normal missions of comparable level, the risk is the pvp part (wasn't really a lot about them in th Ldevblog) Warfare Encounters in contested Systems: - have to be scanned down with the onboard probe - become beacons once active too - the ones with gates have shipsize limitations ranging from frig to battleship - there are also ones without gates, so capital accessible - use Deadspace MkII that is like normal deadspace (no direct warpin etc) but you can MWD in it - objectives are time not hitpoint based
Ralara Caldari D00M.	Posted - 2008.05.16 08:59:00 - [44] Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 16/05/2008 07:16:31 according to your logic each system is instanced because you have to use a stargate to get into it. also asteroid belts are instanced. because asteroid belts only spawn when a player enters. there is no difference between asteroid belts and the new areas. also missions are instanced. No they arent. does anyone here know the defintiion of an "instance" ? It means multiple people being in the same place (think like a WoW Raid) but unable to interact with eachother. If our complexes or mining belts were instanced, you could go to one and start doing your thing - I could then go to the same belt or complex, and I wouldn't see you there. You'd be there killing your NPCs or mining your veldspar, but I wouldn't see that. I'd see a brand new set of NPCs, I wouldn't see your wrecks and I wouldn't see you. And you wouldn't see me or MY NPCs. That is an instance - it's allowing multiple people or multiple groups to be at the same location at the same time, but not be able to interact with eachother. -- "I didn't join Triumvirate, I joined D00M.".
Shananigan Induseng Enterprises R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.05.16 09:05:00 - [45] So are all these people who compare wow BG with eves FW complete idiots? hey FF7 has a battle arena it must of stolen that idea from wows BG.... Wow actually took that idea from ALOT of mmos and rpgs that came before wow was even thought of. I swear all you people who keep comparing everything to wow should just go play it.
Nadoflex ShockTroopers Caeruleum Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.16 09:15:00 - [46] Can we pretend that WOW does not exist? Pretty please? Its a terrible game with no new ideas of its own, everything in it has been copied from far better games and it only does well because its a warcraft game that 14 year olds flock to like a **** mag in a playground. ------------------------------------------ ShockTroopers Need You!
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.16 09:21:00 - [47] Originally by: Kuolematon Hello, I just wanted to point out this oblivious WoW rip-off CCP is currently making: Battlegrounds. You do realise that battle grounds were invented by DAOC and stolen by WoW? Other then that, Black Rise is merely a lowsec region being added. You know like how there are allready lowsec regions in game. Then E.A. adds combat objectives to lowsec regions in the hope that it will encourage smallgang pvp and draw more population into lowsec. - - - Originally by: CCP Wrangler If you can understand our goal, disagree with our solution and offer a solution that is equal or better your opinion has a better chance of being heard...
Aclyn Seriy Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.05.16 09:29:00 - [48] Edited by: Aclyn Seriy on 16/05/2008 09:29:35 Feeding of the Trolls ends in twenty minutes, please ensure all brain cells are intact before leaving this room. Anyone missing any brain cells should contact the owner of the Troll and request a refund on brain cells/time lost. The management cannot be held responsible for any damage done to your mind, face (facepalming), or personal property (ie keyboard, through repeated bashing of said face upon said keyboard), whilst in contact with this Troll. Thankyou and have a nice day. Originally by: techzer0 I'm the failboat captain
Pan Crastus Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.16 09:36:00 - [49] Originally by: Caiman Graystock You do know, EVE has had instances forever, you know what deadspace is, right? Please, go listen to the live dev blog, because this is nothing like battlegrounds, and many of your 'facts' are wrong. How about you get your facts straight first. Deadspace isn't an instance, it only exists once (per mission etc.) and anyone can enter it (the same "instance"). Havig "instances" means that a separate copy spawns for every player / group of players upon entering so you do not share the same instance with other players / group of players. EVE Online: a cold, cruel world where (RL-)rich people replace their losses with GTCs sold to poor students who need to farm ISK to afford their play time ...
Gunner Dark	Posted - 2008.05.16 10:33:00 - [50] Its nothing like battlegrounds at all, if anything its close to the pvp mechanics of pirates of the burning sea, there once a certain amount of points have been gained near a port, there is a battle for control, in FW once a certain amount of point have been gained there will eb a battle for control of the control points. S FW = Port flipping in POTBS


CCP Greyscale	Posted - 2008.05.16 10:34:00 - [51] Originally by: Mioelnir My understanding: Factional Warfare Missions: - have probably gates - are in hostily space - become overview beacons for everyone once entered - are easier than normal missions of comparable level, the risk is the pvp part (wasn't really a lot about them in th Ldevblog) Warfare Encounters in contested Systems: - have to be scanned down with the onboard probe - become beacons once active too - the ones with gates have shipsize limitations ranging from frig to battleship - there are also ones without gates, so capital accessible - use Deadspace MkII that is like normal deadspace (no direct warpin etc) but you can MWD in it - objectives are time not hitpoint based Bang on. WRT the "instances" debate, both sides are right and wrong at the same time. The "technical" definition of an instance, afaik, is when you take a particular piece of content, like a deadspace site, and create multiple identical copies in the world as required. In this sense, every complex, mission and exploration site is instanced content. The "standard" definition of an instance, derived from the way these things are usually used, is when you take an instance as above and spawn in for a particular group of people and then limit who can enter, usually to either just the people entering it or to them plus some selected enemies. There is nothing to my knowledge in EVE which fits this definition and we have no intention of changing that in the upcoming expansion.

Pesadel0 Minmatar Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.16 10:57:00 - [52] Originally by: CCP Greyscale Originally by: Mioelnir My understanding: Factional Warfare Missions: - have probably gates - are in hostily space - become overview beacons for everyone once entered - are easier than normal missions of comparable level, the risk is the pvp part (wasn't really a lot about them in th Ldevblog) Warfare Encounters in contested Systems: - have to be scanned down with the onboard probe - become beacons once active too - the ones with gates have shipsize limitations ranging from frig to battleship - there are also ones without gates, so capital accessible - use Deadspace MkII that is like normal deadspace (no direct warpin etc) but you can MWD in it - objectives are time not hitpoint based Bang on. WRT the "instances" debate, both sides are right and wrong at the same time. The "technical" definition of an instance, afaik, is when you take a particular piece of content, like a deadspace site, and create multiple identical copies in the world as required. In this sense, every complex, mission and exploration site is instanced content. The "standard" definition of an instance, derived from the way these things are usually used, is when you take an instance as above and spawn in for a particular group of people and then limit who can enter, usually to either just the people entering it or to them plus some selected enemies. There is nothing to my knowledge in EVE which fits this definition and we have no intention of changing that in the upcoming expansion. I trully hope that CCP does this rigth because this was what killed WOW pvp,and i 'am seeing the same trend here ,but i will help you guys test in the testserver this, and i'am sure we(ccp and players) will correct the bugs and flaws. -The rewards for factional warfare cant be bigger then 0.0 rewards,or people will mass exodus from 0.0 to empire remember level 4 missions when they were out? ------------------------------------------------------------------
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.05.16 13:51:00 - [53] Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 16/05/2008 13:53:43 I didn't really look into what context the term "bang on" was used in, but thanks to Greyscale I will now use this term, perhaps inappropriately. edit: but srsly don't listen to the haters. I know that CCP isn't making a WoW battleground
Siege Minmatar Siegecraft Bounty Hunting	Posted - 2008.05.16 14:55:00 - [54] Originally by: Dirk Magnum Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 16/05/2008 13:53:43 I didn't really look into what context the term "bang on" was used in, but thanks to Greyscale I will now use this term, perhaps inappropriately. edit: but srsly don't listen to the haters. I know that CCP isn't making a WoW battleground The phrase "Bang On", in this case, means that you have made a very accurate statement. Similar terms would be "hit the mark", "spot on" and "yes, you are correct" ------ begin signature ----- Little known Eve fact, The original race names were: Amarr Empire, Caldar Empire, Minmatar Republic, The Jovians, and The Remanaquie Federation.
Cailais Amarr VITOC Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2008.05.16 15:03:00 - [55] Correct me if Im wrong, but as I understand it you will be a valid war target ANYWHERE in EVE vs your opposing faction. How can this be considered a 'battleground' unless you apply it to the entirety of EVE? In which case its nothing like WOW. C. A new look at Local - IDEA
Alora Venoda GalTech Giant Space Amoeba	Posted - 2008.05.16 15:06:00 - [56] Originally by: Pesadel0 I trully hope that CCP does this rigth because this was what killed WOW pvp,and i 'am seeing the same trend here ,but i will help you guys test in the testserver this, and i'am sure we(ccp and players) will correct the bugs and flaws. -The rewards for factional warfare cant be bigger then 0.0 rewards,or people will mass exodus from 0.0 to empire remember level 4 missions when they were out? it didn't kill WoW PvP, but rather it redefined it. instead of laggy gankfests in public areas that basically shutdown an area for everyone, players were able to actually fight each other. and those players of lower ability level and experience were allowed a way to realistically participate. i suspect something similar may happen here as well. but it depends on how much ISK can be made. if it's profitable AND you get to wtfpwn other players, i would imagine that those who currently wardec empire corps for their pvp fix will flock to FW, much to the relief of many non-PvP corps. there may even be a drop in lowsec gate pirates... all of these seem to be good things, much like how WoW became more "playable" when battlegrounds were released. and i doubt any alliance that controls 0.0 systems will let them go, so only the neutrals that run around trying to get in fights would probably switch to FW, which again is a good thing for those still trying to police their 0.0 territory. ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless. Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application.
Cailais Amarr VITOC Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2008.05.16 15:07:00 - [57] Originally by: RedLion Edited by: RedLion on 16/05/2008 07:22:18 Come on people, think about how much this is a copy of initial Alterac Valley in wow, (not that wow is bad in any way): - Ranking: check - Instanced/rigged: half check - Scoreboard: checked - Running around doing missions instead of PvP: check - Players dropping tags usable for different stuff: check Open your eyes people :) - Ranking: check - ummm..standings?? Loyalty point store? this isnt new... - Instanced/rigged: wrong - Scoreboard: checked - go look up Alliance Sov mechanics. - Running around doing missions instead of PvP: wrong - Players dropping tags usable for different stuff: wrong Open your eyes and actually READ the Dev Comments. Thx C. A new look at Local - IDEA
KapnKaboom School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.05.16 15:12:00 - [58] Originally by: Pesadel0 -The rewards for factional warfare cant be bigger then 0.0 rewards,or people will mass exodus from 0.0 to empire remember level 4 missions when they were out? Didn't you see the memo? The reward for completing a factional warfare mission will be a new, pre-fit Titan.
LetsDoThis	Posted - 2008.05.16 15:18:00 - [59] Originally by: RedLion Edited by: RedLion on 16/05/2008 07:22:18 Come on people, think about how much this is a copy of initial Alterac Valley in wow, (not that wow is bad in any way): - Ranking: check - Instanced/rigged: half check - Scoreboard: checked - Running around doing missions instead of PvP: check - Players dropping tags usable for different stuff: check Open your eyes people :) The most important thing that a WoW BG does is: - Even team sizes - Tries to match teams based on skill level - PvP is almost instantaneous So don't worry, FW won't have any of that.
OneSock Crown Industries space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2008.05.16 15:32:00 - [60] Originally by: Mioelnir - use Deadspace MkII that is like normal deadspace (no direct warpin etc) but you can MWD in it nano hell then :( shame.



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