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Tara Nighthawk
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.17 11:36:00 -
[1]
From EveMon, I am considering using a Catalyst for mining - until I can afford or train for a Barge or Exhumer.
It seems to have 8 Turret Hardpoints and room for one Drone. Does this mean it could run 8 Mining Laser II and one Mining Drone? Would it have the power to run all those? Can I run 3 Mining Laser Upgrades too (or do you only need one of those anyway)?
I can train for one of these in just over an hour. The Barge will take a couple of weeks - not to mention the cost of a Barge 
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Estel Arador
Minmatar
AFK
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Posted - 2008.05.17 12:03:00 -
[2]
There are two problems with your idea:
1) CPU. Mining lasers and mining upgrades require loads of CPU - I don't think you'll be able to fit eight of them on a Catalyst. (You could on battleship though).
2) Capacitor. If you could fit 8 mining lasers, you'd run out of cap in no time - possibly even before all eight have had a chance to activate  (Again, that wouldn't be a problem with a battleship.)
Skills Explained |
Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2008.05.17 12:03:00 -
[3]
I've seen other people do it.
I've not used a Catalyst so I don't know if it's got any reserved missile slots or not. If it doesn't then yes you should be able to put 8 Miner's in there. Whether or not you have the Power Grid and CPU to support them is going to be dependent on your Electronics and Engineering skills.
As to trying to increase your output with MLU's I don't know if I'd bother unless you are going to jet can mine then come back and get it with an industrial. In which case expect to be robbed.
If you are mining alone you might be better off putting expanded cargo holds up there and just running back to the base when they're full.
Of course the best way to do it is to team up with an some other guy in an industrial.
Forget the mining drone. Put a combat drone in there and you can mine in .8 and below. The extra amount of ore 1 mining drone will get you isn't worth sacrificing the combat capability or the aggravation of fooling with drones.
Put a salvager and maybe a tractor beam on there and you can salvage the wrecks you create in .8 and below with that combat drone.
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2008.05.17 12:04:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 17/05/2008 12:04:46
Stupid posting board ...
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Tara Nighthawk
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.17 12:05:00 -
[5]
I thought that might be the sort of problem I would get.
Can either of those be upgraded or boosted? How many Mining Laser II would I get away with? More than my current Frigate?
In other words, is this training and purchase worth the cost?
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Tara Nighthawk
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.17 12:09:00 -
[6]
Sorry - what is an MLU please?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.17 12:10:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Akita T on 17/05/2008 12:11:17
You're much better off if you train for a mining cruiser instead (in the long run).
In your case, an Osprey.
And they're relatively cheap too.
MLU = mining laser upgrade.
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CSM candidates - quick reference cards (NEW: spreadsheet)
Or just vote for LaVista Vista or Leandro Salazar like I did.
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Ezixl
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Posted - 2008.05.17 12:14:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Ezixl on 17/05/2008 12:16:45
And you won't be able to fit 8 mining lasers II, even with best skills, because of CPU (640/170 without skills). Neither think about upgrades. Anyway it would be pretty useless, rush for cruiser instead.
You are Gallente, but the best mining ships apart from barges are Caldari Bantham, Osprey, Rokh. Train either caldari ships or barges.
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2008.05.17 12:15:00 -
[9]
Those Mining Laser II's are going to be the hardest to fit. You might just stick with a Mining Frigate to start out with, then as you get more money, get the Catalyst and try fitting some T1 Lasers to it. They're a lot cheaper than those T2's.
As mentioned in the Destroyer thread on this page, there's other things you can do with that destroyer too so it's worth having just for it's own sake.
You're biggest problem here, isn't so much the mining as the hauling away part anyway.
Of course that isn't going to change. Getting into barge's will give you a bigger hold but you'll fill it faster too.
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Tara Nighthawk
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.17 12:20:00 -
[10]
Thanks 
I have level one MLU so far. Working on level 2.
The Osprey seems to be Caldari I think. My Miner is Gallente, so which would be the equivalent Gallente Cruiser please?
I am guessing an Exequror?
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2008.05.17 12:27:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 17/05/2008 12:28:56
 Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 17/05/2008 12:11:17
You're much better off if you train for a mining cruiser instead (in the long run).
In your case, an Osprey.
And they're relatively cheap too.
...
Actually for Gallente it's the Exequror
but that would be the next step up from a destroyer.
Training Destroyer to Level 1 is only going to take a few minutes though so I wouldn't say going to the Cruiser right away would be better.
It all depends on how much money you've got and how much time you want to divert from training for a barge.
Of course both the Cruiser and the Destroyer have other uses.
I've never used a Destroyer for mining myself as I did at one time go from a mining frigate to a mining cruiser.
But then, with another character, I've also just bit the bullet and kept training for my barge while using the frigate to mine but that was as part of a team.
If you're hauling the ore by yourself the cruiser would help with that.
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Lord Haur
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.05.17 13:36:00 -
[12]
The exequror can fit 4 miners in it's high slots, and it gets a cargo bonus. Unlike the Osprey, it recieves no mining yield bonus.
If you can use mining drones, you may find that the Vexor, while having a smaller hold, can infact mine faster because of it's drones and drone bonus.
You may have to use a couple of Co-processors for both ships to fit 4 miner IIs.
--- Sig Starts Here ---
Lord Haur - Imperial Academy Logistical Support
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.17 15:08:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk
Originally by: Akita T
You're much better off if you train for a mining cruiser instead (in the long run). In your case, an Osprey. And they're relatively cheap too.
Actually for Gallente it's the Exequror
Oh... right... I *always* confuse the Catalyst with the Cormorant.
But anywhay, back to bussiness... no, it's not the Exequror... it's the Vexor... but only if you stay true to Gallente phylosophy and train drone skills early on 
The other good thing about the Vexor is that he can always switch from mining drones to combat drones and back (or carry spare mining drones alongside a single squad of light combat drones). The bad thing about it is a rather smallish cargohold, but if you're jetcan mining it doesn't really matter.
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CSM candidates - quick reference cards (NEW: spreadsheet)
Or just vote for LaVista Vista or Leandro Salazar like I did.
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Joe Starbreaker
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Posted - 2008.05.17 16:44:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk
Originally by: Akita T
You're much better off if you train for a mining cruiser instead (in the long run).
In your case, an Osprey.
And they're relatively cheap too.
...
Actually for Gallente it's the Exequror
Actually for Gallente it's the Vexor.
Look at each ship's bonuses. The Navitas gets a 100% bonus to mining laser yield at level 5, meaning it mines just as well as an Exequror for signifcantly less cost. The Vexor is the Gallente cruiser with mining bonuses. No destroyer has the CPU to out-mine a mining-bonused frigate (Navitas,Bantam,Burst,Tormentor).
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2008.05.18 23:06:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 18/05/2008 23:09:10
Joe, Akita, I see your points.
I'd still use the Exequror though unless I was jet can mining by myself (which I don't do) because of it's bigger cargo hold.
Anyway that is what I did before I moved on to barges. For me, the bottleneck always seemed to be hauling the ore away rather than mining it.
As to the Destroyers vs. Mining Frigates - I'd wondered about that. I've seen other people mining in destroyers but mostly used the mining frigates myself. The one exception being using an Imicus for mining until I moved up to the Exequror, both because of the cargo capacity.
Maybe with a mining bonus those drones might be worth while but mostly I've found them more trouble than they were worth.
My initial thinking was that since what I've always done was to carries combat drones in my mining ships so there, the Vexor's mining bonus for drones wouldn't do me any good but looking at it's bandwidth I can see it can carry enough to have combat drones and mining drones at the same time.
But then my computers aren't that great and launching drones causes me a lot of lag. Another reason I don't like using them so much.
Anyway, thanks for mentioning that.
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Joe Starbreaker
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Posted - 2008.05.18 23:26:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk
My initial thinking was that since what I've always done was to carries combat drones in my mining ships so there, the Vexor's mining bonus for drones wouldn't do me any good but looking at it's bandwidth I can see it can carry enough to have combat drones and mining drones at the same time.
You can carry them at the same time, you just can't control them at the same time. Nor would you want to... Drones V only lets you control five drones, and when mining, you'll want all five of them mining. When rats appear in the system, call your mining drones back to the drone bay, and launch your hobgoblins to destroy the intruders.
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Joe Starbreaker
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Posted - 2008.05.18 23:30:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk
I'd still use the Exequror though unless I was jet can mining by myself (which I don't do) because of it's bigger cargo hold.
I can understand, but it's not a good reason. People jetcan mine because it's many times more efficient. I suppose it all depends on why you're mining, too.
Are you mining 100 m3 of veldspar because some mission requires it? Are you mining a bit of some ore because you have a blueprint for a navy frigate and want to make yourself one? Or do you fancy yourself a professional miner/builder who wants to maximize the quantity he can harvest in order to make the biggest profit?
If you see yourself as a "professional" you either need to be jetcan mining or using a partner or alt to haul for you. Docking up every time your cargo fills (which takes two laser cycles for most ships) is not efficient any way you slice it.
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2008.05.19 00:38:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 19/05/2008 00:43:49
Yeah, those Exequror's were almost a year ago. At the time, an additional factor was that they were a *Cruiser* oooooh! Which was still impressive then as my first non-frigate ship. After getting a Rupture and Thorax ganked by guys in frigates I lost my awe at the power and majesty of cruisers and started paying more attention to my tank. 
For mining, I've got barges and haulers now that team mine out of jet can's.
A lot of stuff depends on where you are as a player, your computer equipment and play style not to mention RL interference in your gaming.
As to the drones - yes.
I carry 5 combat drones and 5 mining drones in my Covetor's but have stopped trying to use the mining drones. They just cause to much lag on my system. I use the combat drones when I need to but then pull them back as soon as I can to cut down on the lag.
I've been wanting to get some better computers but haven't been able to swing it yet.
Another factor is in your personality. I really hate getting robbed. I really fraking hate it. So while someone else might be able to shrug it off as a cost of doing business, I'm not able to do that and go to some pains to see that it doesn't happen. Which doesn't mean that it never happens but does mean it doesn't happen very often.
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merc119
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Posted - 2008.05.19 12:01:00 -
[19]
The answer is simple. I would either use a navitas mining frigate until u can use a vexor, and the retriever. A catalyst makes a good salvager but nothing no benefit is to be gained from using a cat to mine. Its a waste of money for mining purposes.
To be honest, joining a decent corp will help. U may get a free cruiser or retriever and help with hauling (even help from people with perfect refining)
Good luck with the mining. Contact me in game if u need any other mining advice. Good luck. 
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Monkey Saturday
SAS Elite Ops
Chaos Incarnate.
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Posted - 2008.05.19 12:30:00 -
[20]
Just for the heck of it, I tried to fit a cat with as many mining laser II's as I could. With mining skills at 5 all electronic skills at 5, I can JUST fit 3 mining laser II's when I fit 2 Co-Processor II's. Worth it? Not really. Keep in mind nothing else will fit on the ship with the 3 lasers on.
So, if you're just starting out, there's no way in heck you'll be fitting more than 2 on a cat. Stick with the navitas, train frigate 5, and you'll be pulling in 4 lasers worth of ore with 2.
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Tara Nighthawk
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.19 12:47:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Tara Nighthawk on 19/05/2008 12:47:45
So far, I have managed to get 2 Mining Laser II and an MLU I to work on a Catalyst, including a CPU upgrade. There is not enough power to run any more. Very wasteful on Turrets.
I also have an Iteron III, but that only runs one Mining Laser II (with MLU I). Huge capacity, but it takes about 2 hours to fill. Mining is dull enough, but that is really boring.
To be honest, I am not sure the Catalyst is much better than some of the Frigates I have, although the capacity is slightly higher. One of the Frigates (Imicus?) has room for 3 Drones, whilst the Catalyst takes only one - and the Iteron none at all.
I am aiming for a Mining Barge - but I need to earn some serious money for that. Unfortunate 'Catch-22' - once I have the Barge I can earn the money I need to buy it, but not until then.
Edit - Is the Exequror a better bet, or just go straight for the Barge?
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Monkey Saturday
SAS Elite Ops
Chaos Incarnate.
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Posted - 2008.05.19 13:01:00 -
[22]
if you can't afford a barge, then buying a cruiser is equally redundant. You can get a retriever for 3-5mil isk pretty much anywhere nowadays so unless you want to spend an equal amount on a cruiser to mine so you can make money for that barge...
Find a quiet system, mine with your navitas, or a tougher frigate if you can't handle belt rats with the 1 light drone you'll have in the navi (though you lose the mining bonus), and just jet the ore and haul with an itty 3. You'll soon find you have enough for a barge.
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Kask Aledrought
Gallente
Imperial Security Group
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Posted - 2008.05.19 14:11:00 -
[23]
I find my vexor is great for running in .6 space. I have 4 miner ii's, 2 cap ii chargers, 2 co-processor 1 units. 4 combat drones.
The vexor gets a 10% bonus per mining laser per cruiser level so it's not too shabby while I wait out the days to a hulk.
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Lord Haur
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.05.19 14:20:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Kask Aledrought
I find my vexor is great for running in .6 space. I have 4 miner ii's, 2 cap ii chargers, 2 co-processor 1 units. 4 combat drones.
The vexor gets a 10% bonus per mining laser per cruiser level so it's not too shabby while I wait out the days to a hulk.
Wrong. Read the description. The vexor gets a bonus to mining drone yield, not mining laser yield. This allows it to mine faster than the exequror. However, if you are unable to use mining drones, you may find the Thorax a better ship to mine with, since it has 5 turret slots.
--- Sig Starts Here ---
Lord Haur - Imperial Academy Logistical Support
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Joe Starbreaker
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Posted - 2008.05.19 14:28:00 -
[25]
If you really like mining lasers, you could train Minmatar Cruiser (for the Scythe) or Caldari Cruiser (for the Osprey). The Gallente and Amarr mining cruisers are drone boats (Vexor and Arbitrator).
If you really need a ship in the cruiser price range, consider getting a Procurer. It doesn't get much love because it only has one strip miner (half the mining rate of a Retriever) but it at least gives you a little barge practice and is cheap. It can mine ice, too, which your cruiser can't.
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Hito Raenorae
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Posted - 2008.05.19 14:54:00 -
[26]
PROTIP: POUR ALL OF YOUR TIME AND ISK INTO GETTING ASTROGEO AND MINING BARGE OPS TO 5.
Then, after that XBAWKS HUEG training period, you can kick back and make 100m/hour.
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Bleeshtar
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Posted - 2008.05.19 16:22:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Hito Raenorae
PROTIP: POUR ALL OF YOUR TIME AND ISK INTO GETTING ASTROGEO AND MINING BARGE OPS TO 5.
Then, after that XBAWKS HUEG training period, you can kick back and make 100m/hour.
Mmmmm ... what? 
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Beerkat
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.05.19 16:34:00 -
[28]
Basically, it means train for a hulk and you'll make more money per hour.
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Jim Nakamura
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Posted - 2008.05.19 17:53:00 -
[29]
If you actually plan on mining properly, skilling towards mining cruisers is kind of a waste - by the time you can mine in them better than you could in a mining frigate, you could be halfway to flying a barge anyway. You need racial frigate to 4, and at least a few levels of racial cruiser to make it worthwhile, and that's a lot of training time at that stage in the game for something that's a stop-gap. It's a dead end skills-wise, and a waste of training time and isk.
Whereas if you don't actually plan on mining properly... why the hell are you wasting time mining anyway?
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Fumen
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Posted - 2008.05.19 19:04:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Jim Nakamura
If you actually plan on mining properly, skilling towards mining cruisers is kind of a waste - by the time you can mine in them better than you could in a mining frigate, you could be halfway to flying a barge anyway. You need racial frigate to 4, and at least a few levels of racial cruiser to make it worthwhile, and that's a lot of training time at that stage in the game for something that's a stop-gap. It's a dead end skills-wise, and a waste of training time and isk.
Whereas if you don't actually plan on mining properly... why the hell are you wasting time mining anyway?
Filling out space on a mining gang to get that load of ore in you need for ship/ammo/mod production before the wardec starts tomorrow? Looking for a ship with a real tank to mine out of instead of that barge that goes pop when you sneeze on it? Aren't Hulks getting suicided with little problem? Just a couple of thoughts.
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To everyone:
As a Gallente pilot, if you really don't want to train barges, a Brutix will outmine a Retriever, and a Megathron will compete with a Covetor. (That's assuming max skills.) It's still nothing compared to what a Hulk can do, and again won't let you get to that precious ice.
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Tara Nighthawk
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.19 20:28:00 -
[31]
So - I have tried a number of different Frigates and a Catalyst. Some of these will run 2 Mining Laser I and even 2 x Mining Laser II. One even managed to run 2 x Mining Laser II and 2 x MLU I. However, the Capacitor kept running out of power and offlining one of the lasers - which defeats the object. All of these have very limited Cargo capacity.
The other option is the Iteron III - with only one ML II and one MLU I. Rather slow (a couple of hours to fill), but I made about 650k ISK from that one load. The main issues are that the asteroids keep getting depleted and it is deadly boring.
So I am training towards a Mining Barge - about 12 days to go, plus I only have about 1.2m ISK so far. Lots of time to earn more yet.
So a few questions about Mining Barges:
1. Which one do I aim for? The cheapest (there more quickly) or one of the others?
2. Do they take Mining Lasers and MLU?
3. What are Strip Miners? Do they work on asteroids or do I need to start on Moons? I hear they are dangerous - I don't fancy spending this long earning the money for a Barge and then getting it destroyed the first time I approach a Moon. 
4. What do I do with my Barge once I get one?
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Joe Starbreaker
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Posted - 2008.05.19 20:50:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Joe Starbreaker on 19/05/2008 20:50:45
The mining frigates are: Navitas, Tormentor, Burst, and Bantam.
Do not use other frigates for mining. The above four get bonuses to mining laser output. With Gallente Frigate 4, for example, you get an 80% output bonus to the Navitas's two mining lasers, it's the equivalent of having 3.6 mining lasers instead of two.
Among barges, go for the Retriever. Reason is, it only takes an extra day or so to train for it, once you've got the skills for a Procurer, and it mines twice as much.
Barges fit strip miners, not mining lasers. Procurer fits one, Retriever fits two. They are basically big mining lasers with a 3 minute cycle instead of a 1 minute cycle. They don't mine moons -- moon mining is something you do with a POS.
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Tara Nighthawk
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.19 20:56:00 -
[33]
Thanks - that clears things up a little.
Which Strip Miners should I go for?
This is getting expensive. Still, if it was easy it wouldn't be worth the effort.
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Lord Haur
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.05.19 20:57:00 -
[34]
4) erm... mine?
--- Sig Starts Here ---
Lord Haur - Imperial Academy Logistical Support
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Tara Nighthawk
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.19 21:26:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Lord Haur
4) erm... mine?
I never thought of that - LOL
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Jurgen Cartis
Caldari
Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
Nex Eternus
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Posted - 2008.05.19 21:47:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Hito Raenorae
PROTIP: POUR ALL OF YOUR TIME AND ISK INTO GETTING ASTROGEO AND MINING BARGE OPS TO 5.
Then, after that XBAWKS HUEG training period, you can kick back and make 100m/hour.
100m/hour
People still believe that? When that version of Halada's guide came out, Mega was 4.8k, Zyd 4.4k, and Morphite 15k+. However, if you're buying at those prices, please give me a call, I'd love to supply your needs, anywhere in highsec.
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ICE Blueprint Sales
FIRST!! -Yipsilanti
Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth |
Monkey Saturday
SAS Elite Ops
Chaos Incarnate.
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Posted - 2008.05.19 23:07:00 -
[37]
If you are going the hardcore hulk route, train all the ore processing skills to 4 to use t2 crystals in 3 t2 strips.
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Joe Starbreaker
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Posted - 2008.05.20 03:43:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Tara Nighthawk
Still, if it was easy it wouldn't be worth the effort.
It's actually not worth the effort anyway.
But as to the question of which strip miners, I would look into "Strip Miner I" and then go from there. Like I know LOL!
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2008.05.20 05:24:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 20/05/2008 05:32:53
First off - to clear something up - Strip Miners and Deep Core Miners may or may not be the same thing. If it is a Deep Core Miner it will say so. If it doesn't say so it isn't one.
Lots of people use regular Strip Miners to mine ordinary Ore from Asteroids.
The bit about the moons comes from the Deep Core Miners. Allegedly, if you read their Show Info's, Deep Core Miner's can mine moons. In the process of mining moons there is a cloud that can build up which can explode and damage your ship but is mitigated by training the skill involved to Level V. As long as you are not mining moons with Deep Core Miners you don't have to worry about that cloud. There is a Deep Core Miner that is a Strip Miner and one that is not but not all Strip Miners are used for mining moons. That's all I know about it.
Some of the Deep Core Miners at least (not sure about all) but some of them are dual purpose and can also mine regular ore in addition to moon mining.
Go to the Strip Miners section in the Market Place, view Groups and you can read what each one does. Or you can go here
it's just that for some things, some of the data there may not be quite so accurate. The stuff in the Market Place is more up to date.
For the most part, to start off with - you want just your basic Strip Miner I.
The Modulated Strip Miner II is better but it costs more, uses Crystals that are more effective at mining their selected ores but are not cheap and wear out, not to mention the extra skills involved in using this stuff which can be quite extensive.
For the most part, if you think you are serious about being a miner the first thing you want to aim for is to get into a Retriever. Mine in that for a while and it will give you a taste of what serious mining is about. If you don't like doing that then don't go any further.
Mining can be a full time profession with extensive skills and expensive ships.
Remember though that mining the ore is only half the job. The other half of the job is hauling it away. The best thing to do is to get into a team with a guy in a hauler. You can do this either with another player (preferably someone from a Player Corporation you've joined rather than some pick up guy who's going to keep all the ore you mined for himself). Or you can get a second account and put that guy in the hauler.
Typically, you do not want the guy in the hauler to be another miner. But other professional areas have their strengths. An Engineer can help manufacture items from your ore. A trader can sell them. A Military guy can run missions and give you something else to do besides mine. And, of course, they can all cross train each others specialties.
Start off mining in some 1.0 or .9 system until you get used to doing it. The poster child for asteroids right now is Veldspar.
Try to pick a system that doesn't have a lot of other people in it. You can set your map filters to color the stars by Security Rating and Pilots in Space. Use those two filters to get an idea of where a relatively safe, uncrowded system might be.
Then, once you've done that for a while, make sure you have some combat drones in the Retriever and go down to a .8 or .7 system. You can put a Salvager and a Tractor Beam on the Hauler to pull in, loot and salvage the rats the Retrievers drones kill. Get your drone skills up for this.
Read the mining guides and get some experience.
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Pan Dora
Caldari
Bears Inc
Violent-Tendencies
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Posted - 2008.05.20 07:44:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Fumen
Filling out space on a mining gang to get that load of ore in you need for ship/ammo/mod production before the wardec starts tomorrow? Looking for a ship with a real tank to mine out of instead of that barge that goes pop when you sneeze on it? Aren't Hulks getting suicided with little problem? Just a couple of thoughts.
Wardec: Im empire mining its one of less profitable activies...instead of train for mining (half assed) a combat pilot can do mission for way more isk/hour and use the isk to buy the needed ammo/ship/modules for a eventual wardec. Also the skill that he will train will help in pvp(or at least most skill)
Suicide ganking: mission ship are a more frequent target of suicide ganker then hulks, usually this mission ships have quit impressive tanks. (way better then any mining ship) Ganker chose the target based first in how much a ship worth, then in how much it can tank, also its more dificult to gank a rare setup (like mining batteships)
Pan |
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Joe Starbreaker
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Posted - 2008.05.20 08:00:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk
The bit about the moons comes from the Deep Core Miners. Allegedly, if you read their Show Info's, Deep Core Miner's can mine moons. In the process of mining moons there is a cloud that can build up which can explode and damage your ship but is mitigated by training the skill involved to Level V.
Mercoxit asteroids are the ones that have gas clouds that can damage you, and that require deep core mining lasers or deep core strip miners. However the gas clouds have a pretty short range and your lasers have a 10km-15km range so it's not a real problem.
Mining moons is done with a POS, a player-owned structure. You sort of set up a starbase with a mining station, and it mines gradually over time, then you come back to pick the stuff up. Moon materials are used in producing T2 materials, which become T2 advanced materials, which make T2 components, which go into T2 and capital ships... that's as close as my understanding gets.
Suffice it to say, EVE has more depth for builders and industrialists than almost any other game, yet like an iceberg 95% of it is hidden beneath the surface. I normally like building, am a huge fan of SimCity and the likes, but EVE combat is so compelling it's kept me distracted so far. Maybe a year from now I'll turn into the game's biggest carebear and go into building capital ships!
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Pan Dora
Caldari
Bears Inc
Violent-Tendencies
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Posted - 2008.05.20 08:38:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Pan Dora on 20/05/2008 08:41:31
Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk
The bit about the moons comes from the Deep Core Miners.
Wrong, moon mining its done with Moon harverst arrays that need to be fitted in POS
Quote:
Allegedly, if you read their Show Info's, Deep Core Miner's can mine moons.
show info says: "mining laser for deep core mining ore such as mercoxit." That is a ore you can find in asteroid belts in 0.0.
Quote:
In the process of mining moons there is a cloud that can build up which can explode and damage your ship but is mitigated by training the skill involved to Level V. As long as you are not mining moons with Deep Core Miners you don't have to worry about that cloud.
the cloud gas can happen when mining mercoxit, however the chance its not high and the area of effect its small and its not hard to stay away form this cloud.
Quote:
all Strip Miners are used for mining moons.
Like said before Moons are a POS thing, Strip Miner are used for Ore, there is also Ice harverster. Ice are found ice belts in 0.0(similar to common asteroid belts but with ice), the Ice products are used as fuel to POS, jump drives, siege modules and cynos. Ice can only be mined with a mining barge/exhummer since Ice Harverster are only usable in this type of ships.
Quote:
The Modulated Strip Miner II is better but it costs more, uses Crystals that are more effective at mining their selected ores but are not cheap and wear out, not to mention the extra skills involved in using this stuff which can be quite extensive.
Actualy if you dont have the mining crystals for the ore you want to mine the Strip Miner I has much better yeld. Mining crystal in a Hulk worth every isk you invest it (except if you buy for a price way above the market value, to avoid that its not incommon miners manufacturing his own crystals)
Edit:for some small correction
Pan |
Pan Dora
Caldari
Bears Inc
Violent-Tendencies
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Posted - 2008.05.20 08:49:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
Moon materials are used in producing T2 materials, which become T2 advanced materials, which make T2 components, which go into T2 and capital ships... that's as close as my understanding gets.
Actually, for capital ship you need Capital Ship Components. They are made of pure mineral, (each piece take enough mineral to make batleships and each capital ship take dseveral components). Maybe jump freigthers(cant check rigth now) , the only tech II capital ship so far, use some tech 2 componets too.
Pan |
Opertone
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.05.20 12:07:00 -
[44]
optimal choice for a beginner is to get a mining cruiser, Osprey, Vexxor anything with mining bonus
mining lasers >> mining drones
train to retrievers, then covetors, when you can make 150 mill like that, you can afford a hulk
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Ancy Denaries
Caldari
Under Heavy Fire
Notoriety Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.20 17:05:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Fumen
To everyone:
As a Gallente pilot, if you really don't want to train barges, a Brutix will outmine a Retriever, and a Megathron will compete with a Covetor. (That's assuming max skills.) It's still nothing compared to what a Hulk can do, and again won't let you get to that precious ice.
Wrong on so many levels. The top 3 mining Battleships are (in order):
- Dominix (worst)
- Apocalypse
- Rokh (best, due to being able to fit one more MLU)
The Rokh will, at top skills and with 8 MDCMII outmine the Retriever with a slight bit. Not a lot, mind you. There is NO battleship (especially not the Mega) that can compete with the Covetor, not even get close. Besides, you'd get RSI in no time if you decide to seriously mine in a battleship. Their tiny cargoholds make that a pure pain.
Originally by: "Cris Dono"
That ofc isn't the best thing when a punisher obviously fitted with an Acme Infini-cap-o-matic is still dishing out hurt like there was no tomorrow :(
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Joe Starbreaker
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Posted - 2008.05.20 17:34:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Ancy Denaries
Their tiny cargoholds make that a pure pain.
What on earth does cargohold size have to do with mining??? |
Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2008.05.20 18:14:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
Originally by: Ancy Denaries
Their tiny cargoholds make that a pure pain.
What on earth does cargohold size have to do with mining???
Three things:
1) If you aren't mining into a jet can they help you haul the ore back to the base faster.
2) If you are team mining and trying not to let ore build up in the jet can while the hauler is making it's run. Here, in order to thwart ore thieves, the jet can is used only as a transfer point, not as a storage container. If you have more ore in the jet can than you can pull back into your cargo hold and a thief comes along there is no way to keep him from stealing from you or flipping your can right under your nose. Thus, the more ore you can keep in your ship, the longer you can continue to mine before the hauler gets back without having to shut down. This is situational. If you're the only people on local or if you are mining a mission site, the risk of being robbed goes down. But if you are in a system with a lot of passing traffic, you never know when one or more of them might decide to pay you a visit.
3) If you are trying to manage multiple accounts having a bigger hold gives you a bigger time buffer while you are fooling with another ship before the lasers shut off.
OBTW, thanks to you and Pan for the correction above. Sorry about the bad data, I should have read my own link again before posting. Not sure how I got that idea in my head.
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Tara Nighthawk
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.20 18:24:00 -
[48]
10 days and 3.5m ISK to go before I can get a Retriever - not counting the cost of the Strip Miners of course.
Many thanks to all and to EveMon for the help with this.
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Ancy Denaries
Caldari
Under Heavy Fire
Notoriety Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.21 10:47:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
Originally by: Ancy Denaries
Their tiny cargoholds make that a pure pain.
What on earth does cargohold size have to do with mining???
In addition to what has been said above, the Rokh (for instance) with eight Modulated Deep Core Miners (not the strip version, can't fit those) will fill up the entire cargohold once every three minutes FOR EVERY LASER. That means you will have to drag eight times to the jetcan in order to not overfill your cargo, loose ore and shutdown the mining laser. I used to mine in a Rokh but it was just too much work to bother with so I trained for a Barge, and now happily using a Hulk.
Having over 13000 m3 cargohold makes for 12 minutes of mining before you have to pull to the jetcan (or dock up and empty the hold as I do now).
Originally by: "Cris Dono"
That ofc isn't the best thing when a punisher obviously fitted with an Acme Infini-cap-o-matic is still dishing out hurt like there was no tomorrow :(
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Frida Frogger
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Posted - 2008.05.22 08:46:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Frida Frogger on 22/05/2008 08:46:09
Oh thanks, thats great to know Tara. And i think that mining Barge is so weak!!!
So if i use my Mega for mining or a Brutix i could tank those stupid suicide folks until the concorde shows up and gets them, and if i die its a more expensive loss however the chance of getting suicide bombed is smaller since your sitting in your tank mining instead of a very fragile barge! |
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Arkeladin
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Posted - 2008.05.23 01:32:00 -
[51]
As someone wo's actually USED a Catalyst as a mining/defense unit, I can say this:
It does work if you don't jetcan-mine (and who does in lowsec anyway?), but it can be a good hit'n'run miner in those lower-security areas.
Configuration: 3 Cargo Hold Upgrade (level 2s if you can get them) in the low slots. Makes it a bit pokey, but it does work. And gives you about 700 units cargo space to boot.
Med slots would be a afterburner and shield regenerator, your choice as to which ones.
Highslots would be 2 Mining Laser II, four other turrets of your choice and preference (if sticking Gallente, go with 150mm Carbide Railguns is my recommendation - they worked well for me), and 2 blasters for close-in.
Nota Bene: This won't work without some Engineering and Electronics to up your powergrid/CPU, or you'll have to activate/deactivate some things.
Carry a combat drone, Hobgoblins are good against most with their thermal damage - if you want to engage then get a EM drone to take out shields, then use your railguns/blasters to finish the job.
This ship's skills are primarily defensive, it can work as a miner in highsec (though jetcan mining with a team is FAR more efficient), if you think there's rats of if you're in .7-.5, this ship can mine and defend itself to a extent, at least until you can warp out.
Personally, I wouldn't try it in lower than .4 with this ship - but that's me. I usually don't play a tramp miner :)
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