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Tara Nighthawk
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.17 11:36:00 -
[1]
From EveMon, I am considering using a Catalyst for mining - until I can afford or train for a Barge or Exhumer.
It seems to have 8 Turret Hardpoints and room for one Drone. Does this mean it could run 8 Mining Laser II and one Mining Drone? Would it have the power to run all those? Can I run 3 Mining Laser Upgrades too (or do you only need one of those anyway)?
I can train for one of these in just over an hour. The Barge will take a couple of weeks - not to mention the cost of a Barge
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Estel Arador
Minmatar AFK
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Posted - 2008.05.17 12:03:00 -
[2]
There are two problems with your idea:
1) CPU. Mining lasers and mining upgrades require loads of CPU - I don't think you'll be able to fit eight of them on a Catalyst. (You could on battleship though). 2) Capacitor. If you could fit 8 mining lasers, you'd run out of cap in no time - possibly even before all eight have had a chance to activate (Again, that wouldn't be a problem with a battleship.)
Skills Explained |
Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2008.05.17 12:03:00 -
[3]
I've seen other people do it.
I've not used a Catalyst so I don't know if it's got any reserved missile slots or not. If it doesn't then yes you should be able to put 8 Miner's in there. Whether or not you have the Power Grid and CPU to support them is going to be dependent on your Electronics and Engineering skills.
As to trying to increase your output with MLU's I don't know if I'd bother unless you are going to jet can mine then come back and get it with an industrial. In which case expect to be robbed.
If you are mining alone you might be better off putting expanded cargo holds up there and just running back to the base when they're full.
Of course the best way to do it is to team up with an some other guy in an industrial.
Forget the mining drone. Put a combat drone in there and you can mine in .8 and below. The extra amount of ore 1 mining drone will get you isn't worth sacrificing the combat capability or the aggravation of fooling with drones.
Put a salvager and maybe a tractor beam on there and you can salvage the wrecks you create in .8 and below with that combat drone.
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2008.05.17 12:04:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 17/05/2008 12:04:46 Stupid posting board ...
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Tara Nighthawk
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.17 12:05:00 -
[5]
I thought that might be the sort of problem I would get.
Can either of those be upgraded or boosted? How many Mining Laser II would I get away with? More than my current Frigate?
In other words, is this training and purchase worth the cost?
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Tara Nighthawk
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.17 12:09:00 -
[6]
Sorry - what is an MLU please?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.17 12:10:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Akita T on 17/05/2008 12:11:17
You're much better off if you train for a mining cruiser instead (in the long run). In your case, an Osprey. And they're relatively cheap too.
MLU = mining laser upgrade.
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CSM candidates - quick reference cards (NEW: spreadsheet) Or just vote for LaVista Vista or Leandro Salazar like I did.
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Ezixl
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Posted - 2008.05.17 12:14:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Ezixl on 17/05/2008 12:16:45
And you won't be able to fit 8 mining lasers II, even with best skills, because of CPU (640/170 without skills). Neither think about upgrades. Anyway it would be pretty useless, rush for cruiser instead.
You are Gallente, but the best mining ships apart from barges are Caldari Bantham, Osprey, Rokh. Train either caldari ships or barges.
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2008.05.17 12:15:00 -
[9]
Those Mining Laser II's are going to be the hardest to fit. You might just stick with a Mining Frigate to start out with, then as you get more money, get the Catalyst and try fitting some T1 Lasers to it. They're a lot cheaper than those T2's.
As mentioned in the Destroyer thread on this page, there's other things you can do with that destroyer too so it's worth having just for it's own sake.
You're biggest problem here, isn't so much the mining as the hauling away part anyway.
Of course that isn't going to change. Getting into barge's will give you a bigger hold but you'll fill it faster too.
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Tara Nighthawk
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.17 12:20:00 -
[10]
Thanks
I have level one MLU so far. Working on level 2.
The Osprey seems to be Caldari I think. My Miner is Gallente, so which would be the equivalent Gallente Cruiser please?
I am guessing an Exequror?
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2008.05.17 12:27:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 17/05/2008 12:28:56
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 17/05/2008 12:11:17
You're much better off if you train for a mining cruiser instead (in the long run). In your case, an Osprey. And they're relatively cheap too.
...
Actually for Gallente it's the Exequror
but that would be the next step up from a destroyer.
Training Destroyer to Level 1 is only going to take a few minutes though so I wouldn't say going to the Cruiser right away would be better.
It all depends on how much money you've got and how much time you want to divert from training for a barge.
Of course both the Cruiser and the Destroyer have other uses.
I've never used a Destroyer for mining myself as I did at one time go from a mining frigate to a mining cruiser.
But then, with another character, I've also just bit the bullet and kept training for my barge while using the frigate to mine but that was as part of a team.
If you're hauling the ore by yourself the cruiser would help with that.
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Lord Haur
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.05.17 13:36:00 -
[12]
The exequror can fit 4 miners in it's high slots, and it gets a cargo bonus. Unlike the Osprey, it recieves no mining yield bonus.
If you can use mining drones, you may find that the Vexor, while having a smaller hold, can infact mine faster because of it's drones and drone bonus.
You may have to use a couple of Co-processors for both ships to fit 4 miner IIs. --- Sig Starts Here --- Lord Haur - Imperial Academy Logistical Support
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.17 15:08:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk
Originally by: Akita T You're much better off if you train for a mining cruiser instead (in the long run). In your case, an Osprey. And they're relatively cheap too.
Actually for Gallente it's the Exequror
Oh... right... I *always* confuse the Catalyst with the Cormorant. But anywhay, back to bussiness... no, it's not the Exequror... it's the Vexor... but only if you stay true to Gallente phylosophy and train drone skills early on The other good thing about the Vexor is that he can always switch from mining drones to combat drones and back (or carry spare mining drones alongside a single squad of light combat drones). The bad thing about it is a rather smallish cargohold, but if you're jetcan mining it doesn't really matter.
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CSM candidates - quick reference cards (NEW: spreadsheet) Or just vote for LaVista Vista or Leandro Salazar like I did.
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Joe Starbreaker
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Posted - 2008.05.17 16:44:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk
Originally by: Akita T
You're much better off if you train for a mining cruiser instead (in the long run). In your case, an Osprey. And they're relatively cheap too.
...
Actually for Gallente it's the Exequror
Actually for Gallente it's the Vexor. Look at each ship's bonuses. The Navitas gets a 100% bonus to mining laser yield at level 5, meaning it mines just as well as an Exequror for signifcantly less cost. The Vexor is the Gallente cruiser with mining bonuses. No destroyer has the CPU to out-mine a mining-bonused frigate (Navitas,Bantam,Burst,Tormentor).
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2008.05.18 23:06:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 18/05/2008 23:09:10 Joe, Akita, I see your points.
I'd still use the Exequror though unless I was jet can mining by myself (which I don't do) because of it's bigger cargo hold.
Anyway that is what I did before I moved on to barges. For me, the bottleneck always seemed to be hauling the ore away rather than mining it.
As to the Destroyers vs. Mining Frigates - I'd wondered about that. I've seen other people mining in destroyers but mostly used the mining frigates myself. The one exception being using an Imicus for mining until I moved up to the Exequror, both because of the cargo capacity.
Maybe with a mining bonus those drones might be worth while but mostly I've found them more trouble than they were worth.
My initial thinking was that since what I've always done was to carries combat drones in my mining ships so there, the Vexor's mining bonus for drones wouldn't do me any good but looking at it's bandwidth I can see it can carry enough to have combat drones and mining drones at the same time.
But then my computers aren't that great and launching drones causes me a lot of lag. Another reason I don't like using them so much.
Anyway, thanks for mentioning that.
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Joe Starbreaker
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Posted - 2008.05.18 23:26:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk My initial thinking was that since what I've always done was to carries combat drones in my mining ships so there, the Vexor's mining bonus for drones wouldn't do me any good but looking at it's bandwidth I can see it can carry enough to have combat drones and mining drones at the same time.
You can carry them at the same time, you just can't control them at the same time. Nor would you want to... Drones V only lets you control five drones, and when mining, you'll want all five of them mining. When rats appear in the system, call your mining drones back to the drone bay, and launch your hobgoblins to destroy the intruders.
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Joe Starbreaker
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Posted - 2008.05.18 23:30:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk I'd still use the Exequror though unless I was jet can mining by myself (which I don't do) because of it's bigger cargo hold.
I can understand, but it's not a good reason. People jetcan mine because it's many times more efficient. I suppose it all depends on why you're mining, too.
Are you mining 100 m3 of veldspar because some mission requires it? Are you mining a bit of some ore because you have a blueprint for a navy frigate and want to make yourself one? Or do you fancy yourself a professional miner/builder who wants to maximize the quantity he can harvest in order to make the biggest profit?
If you see yourself as a "professional" you either need to be jetcan mining or using a partner or alt to haul for you. Docking up every time your cargo fills (which takes two laser cycles for most ships) is not efficient any way you slice it.
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2008.05.19 00:38:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 19/05/2008 00:43:49 Yeah, those Exequror's were almost a year ago. At the time, an additional factor was that they were a *Cruiser* oooooh! Which was still impressive then as my first non-frigate ship. After getting a Rupture and Thorax ganked by guys in frigates I lost my awe at the power and majesty of cruisers and started paying more attention to my tank.
For mining, I've got barges and haulers now that team mine out of jet can's.
A lot of stuff depends on where you are as a player, your computer equipment and play style not to mention RL interference in your gaming.
As to the drones - yes.
I carry 5 combat drones and 5 mining drones in my Covetor's but have stopped trying to use the mining drones. They just cause to much lag on my system. I use the combat drones when I need to but then pull them back as soon as I can to cut down on the lag.
I've been wanting to get some better computers but haven't been able to swing it yet. Another factor is in your personality. I really hate getting robbed. I really fraking hate it. So while someone else might be able to shrug it off as a cost of doing business, I'm not able to do that and go to some pains to see that it doesn't happen. Which doesn't mean that it never happens but does mean it doesn't happen very often.
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merc119
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Posted - 2008.05.19 12:01:00 -
[19]
The answer is simple. I would either use a navitas mining frigate until u can use a vexor, and the retriever. A catalyst makes a good salvager but nothing no benefit is to be gained from using a cat to mine. Its a waste of money for mining purposes.
To be honest, joining a decent corp will help. U may get a free cruiser or retriever and help with hauling (even help from people with perfect refining)
Good luck with the mining. Contact me in game if u need any other mining advice. Good luck.
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Monkey Saturday
SAS Elite Ops Chaos Incarnate.
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Posted - 2008.05.19 12:30:00 -
[20]
Just for the heck of it, I tried to fit a cat with as many mining laser II's as I could. With mining skills at 5 all electronic skills at 5, I can JUST fit 3 mining laser II's when I fit 2 Co-Processor II's. Worth it? Not really. Keep in mind nothing else will fit on the ship with the 3 lasers on.
So, if you're just starting out, there's no way in heck you'll be fitting more than 2 on a cat. Stick with the navitas, train frigate 5, and you'll be pulling in 4 lasers worth of ore with 2.
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Tara Nighthawk
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.19 12:47:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Tara Nighthawk on 19/05/2008 12:47:45 So far, I have managed to get 2 Mining Laser II and an MLU I to work on a Catalyst, including a CPU upgrade. There is not enough power to run any more. Very wasteful on Turrets.
I also have an Iteron III, but that only runs one Mining Laser II (with MLU I). Huge capacity, but it takes about 2 hours to fill. Mining is dull enough, but that is really boring.
To be honest, I am not sure the Catalyst is much better than some of the Frigates I have, although the capacity is slightly higher. One of the Frigates (Imicus?) has room for 3 Drones, whilst the Catalyst takes only one - and the Iteron none at all.
I am aiming for a Mining Barge - but I need to earn some serious money for that. Unfortunate 'Catch-22' - once I have the Barge I can earn the money I need to buy it, but not until then.
Edit - Is the Exequror a better bet, or just go straight for the Barge?
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Monkey Saturday
SAS Elite Ops Chaos Incarnate.
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Posted - 2008.05.19 13:01:00 -
[22]
if you can't afford a barge, then buying a cruiser is equally redundant. You can get a retriever for 3-5mil isk pretty much anywhere nowadays so unless you want to spend an equal amount on a cruiser to mine so you can make money for that barge...
Find a quiet system, mine with your navitas, or a tougher frigate if you can't handle belt rats with the 1 light drone you'll have in the navi (though you lose the mining bonus), and just jet the ore and haul with an itty 3. You'll soon find you have enough for a barge.
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Kask Aledrought
Gallente Imperial Security Group
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Posted - 2008.05.19 14:11:00 -
[23]
I find my vexor is great for running in .6 space. I have 4 miner ii's, 2 cap ii chargers, 2 co-processor 1 units. 4 combat drones. The vexor gets a 10% bonus per mining laser per cruiser level so it's not too shabby while I wait out the days to a hulk.
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Lord Haur
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.05.19 14:20:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Kask Aledrought I find my vexor is great for running in .6 space. I have 4 miner ii's, 2 cap ii chargers, 2 co-processor 1 units. 4 combat drones. The vexor gets a 10% bonus per mining laser per cruiser level so it's not too shabby while I wait out the days to a hulk.
Wrong. Read the description. The vexor gets a bonus to mining drone yield, not mining laser yield. This allows it to mine faster than the exequror. However, if you are unable to use mining drones, you may find the Thorax a better ship to mine with, since it has 5 turret slots. --- Sig Starts Here --- Lord Haur - Imperial Academy Logistical Support
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Joe Starbreaker
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Posted - 2008.05.19 14:28:00 -
[25]
If you really like mining lasers, you could train Minmatar Cruiser (for the Scythe) or Caldari Cruiser (for the Osprey). The Gallente and Amarr mining cruisers are drone boats (Vexor and Arbitrator).
If you really need a ship in the cruiser price range, consider getting a Procurer. It doesn't get much love because it only has one strip miner (half the mining rate of a Retriever) but it at least gives you a little barge practice and is cheap. It can mine ice, too, which your cruiser can't.
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Hito Raenorae
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Posted - 2008.05.19 14:54:00 -
[26]
PROTIP: POUR ALL OF YOUR TIME AND ISK INTO GETTING ASTROGEO AND MINING BARGE OPS TO 5.
Then, after that XBAWKS HUEG training period, you can kick back and make 100m/hour.
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Bleeshtar
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Posted - 2008.05.19 16:22:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Hito Raenorae PROTIP: POUR ALL OF YOUR TIME AND ISK INTO GETTING ASTROGEO AND MINING BARGE OPS TO 5.
Then, after that XBAWKS HUEG training period, you can kick back and make 100m/hour.
Mmmmm ... what?
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Beerkat
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.05.19 16:34:00 -
[28]
Basically, it means train for a hulk and you'll make more money per hour.
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Jim Nakamura
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Posted - 2008.05.19 17:53:00 -
[29]
If you actually plan on mining properly, skilling towards mining cruisers is kind of a waste - by the time you can mine in them better than you could in a mining frigate, you could be halfway to flying a barge anyway. You need racial frigate to 4, and at least a few levels of racial cruiser to make it worthwhile, and that's a lot of training time at that stage in the game for something that's a stop-gap. It's a dead end skills-wise, and a waste of training time and isk.
Whereas if you don't actually plan on mining properly... why the hell are you wasting time mining anyway?
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Fumen
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Posted - 2008.05.19 19:04:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Jim Nakamura If you actually plan on mining properly, skilling towards mining cruisers is kind of a waste - by the time you can mine in them better than you could in a mining frigate, you could be halfway to flying a barge anyway. You need racial frigate to 4, and at least a few levels of racial cruiser to make it worthwhile, and that's a lot of training time at that stage in the game for something that's a stop-gap. It's a dead end skills-wise, and a waste of training time and isk.
Whereas if you don't actually plan on mining properly... why the hell are you wasting time mining anyway?
Filling out space on a mining gang to get that load of ore in you need for ship/ammo/mod production before the wardec starts tomorrow? Looking for a ship with a real tank to mine out of instead of that barge that goes pop when you sneeze on it? Aren't Hulks getting suicided with little problem? Just a couple of thoughts.
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To everyone:
As a Gallente pilot, if you really don't want to train barges, a Brutix will outmine a Retriever, and a Megathron will compete with a Covetor. (That's assuming max skills.) It's still nothing compared to what a Hulk can do, and again won't let you get to that precious ice.
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