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WhatÆs the REAL reason behind exposing the CSM real life identities?

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Ivan Sable The One Upsmanship Club	Posted - 2008.05.17 17:13:00 - [1] The brochure gives the reason ô because election winners will ultimately make appearances on eve-Tv and eonö. Private Tv and a magazine about fantasy role playing needs real names, really? Seriously, why do we really need to know who they are in real life? ItÆs obvious why CCP needs to know, but why us? Is it because of game integrity, transparency and accountability? I have a few thoughts regarding this but I can only speculate. Does anyone know the real reason (or reasons) why? Thank you, Ivan
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.05.17 17:14:00 - [2] You pretty much answered your own questions right there, from the start. Or... were those rethorical questions to begin with ? __ CSM candidates - quick reference cards (NEW: spreadsheet) Or just vote for LaVista Vista or Leandro Salazar like I did.
Ivan Sable The One Upsmanship Club	Posted - 2008.05.17 17:22:00 - [3] Originally by: Akita T You pretty much answered your own questions Speculate isn't too big a word for you is it? "I can only speculate"
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.05.17 17:46:00 - [4] Edited by: Akita T on 17/05/2008 17:49:19 Oh, I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that stating the obvious at the end of your post invalidates the question marks you placed beforehand. Ok, then let me answer it another way then, the part AFTER you stated the obvious... Quote: Does anyone know the real reason (or reasons) why? Nope. Not even people at CCP. Some of them might have thought it was a good idea to do it, then they forgot why or who said it, and now they're just hanging on to it. ... of course, I can only speculate. ___ P.S. In case you didn't realize it, to me, your OP reads like this : "CCP must have had some secret motive to do it like this, and they don't want to say why, so I ask people that can't possibly know anything to answer the questions I know CCP won't, or if CCP will answer them, I won't believe them anyway". __ CSM candidates - quick reference cards (NEW: spreadsheet) Or just vote for LaVista Vista or Leandro Salazar like I did.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.05.17 17:59:00 - [5] I'd say its pretty much because they needed to check the candidates actually owned a valid passport. Would be a bit ridiculous for CSM election winners to be bought plane tickets they couldn't use because they didn't actually have the freedom to travel. CSM Manifesto 2008 \| Destroy Outposts!
Ivan Sable The One Upsmanship Club	Posted - 2008.05.17 18:00:00 - [6] Akita, you should go outside, there's things like fresh air which a pale forum ***** like yourself may find useful. It would be nice to know that they DID do this because of integrity, transparency and accountability, but nowhere have they mentioned this. So instead of speculating, I start this thread and ask the question.
Ivan Sable The One Upsmanship Club	Posted - 2008.05.17 18:03:00 - [7] Jade, I already mentioned that, CCP obviously needs to know, but why us?
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2008.05.17 18:09:00 - [8] I would never permit some game company publish my real name to ****s on internets. As a professional forum troll, I know few people who has said that they will "hurt me" due my glorious and intelligent posts. "The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of ~~gold~~crap"**
Viqtoria Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.05.17 18:16:00 - [9] Originally by: Kuolematon I would never permit some game company publish my real name to ******s on internets. As a professional forum troll, I know few people who has said that they will "hurt me" due my glorious and intelligent posts. i think you overrate yourself tbh.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.17 19:02:00 - [10] Originally by: Jade Constantine I'd say its pretty much because they needed to check the candidates actually owned a valid passport. Would be a bit ridiculous for CSM election winners to be bought plane tickets they couldn't use because they didn't actually have the freedom to travel. They could have checked without publishing. Vote Goumindong for CSM
Face Lifter	Posted - 2008.05.17 19:07:00 - [11] I think it's because such public figures shouldn't have any reason to hide their identity in the first place. If you want to stay anonymous, don't run for public office
Fredior Khan'Sebies Minmatar Mikramurka Solace	Posted - 2008.05.17 19:30:00 - [12] Originally by: Face Lifter I think it's because such public figures shouldn't have any reason to hide their identity in the first place. If you want to stay anonymous, don't run for public office I'd lean toward this issue, myself. I know if I ran and was elected, I'd be putting this down on my resume somehow. I'd be real interested to see how this case plays out in U.S. court that equates anonymous sign-ups on MySpace with criminal hacking. We may all be revealed before the decade is out. From this point forward I'm assuming that official anonymity may be done away with Stateside.
Ashley Sky The Eleventh Commandment Dystopia Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.17 19:35:00 - [13] I'm fairly puzzled myself. My thoughts are that it is just another carrot on a stick ploy. Players who are in the council will get some sort of name recognition and marginal fame, and other players will actually think that CCP is providing a venue for players to get recognized for their efforts. When in all actuality, CCP is only intending to use the players ideas and faces for their own profiteering purposes, and social engineering, since none of their ideas have to be implemented, and they in fact have no power, only to be a deity in the ultimate CCP fan club. It reeks of propaganda and misdirection.
Charney deGeoff Caldari New Tibet	Posted - 2008.05.17 19:37:00 - [14] Edited by: Charney deGeoff on 17/05/2008 19:38:24 Originally by: Fredior Khan'Sebies I know if I ran and was elected, I'd be putting this down on my resume somehow. Really? And by your resume you mean your real life resume you send to potential employers etc? I'm just curious, why? What do you think that would gain you? And to actually say something relevant. Did you candidates have to agree to the publishing of your personal details, or was that surprise to you?
Adonis 4174	Posted - 2008.05.17 19:43:00 - [15] Originally by: Charney deGeoff Edited by: Charney deGeoff on 17/05/2008 19:38:24 Originally by: Fredior Khan'Sebies I know if I ran and was elected, I'd be putting this down on my resume somehow. Really? And by your resume you mean your real life resume you send to potential employers etc? I'm just curious, why? What do you think that would gain you? Customer support experience, experience of QC in the computer games industry, other stuff I can't be bothered wording right. You'd need to think carefully about whether it's relevant to the job you're applying for and how to word it if it is but it has potential. ---- Infiniband can do more than just prevent lag
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2008.05.17 19:50:00 - [16] Originally by: Ivan Sable The brochure gives the reason ô because election winners will ultimately make appearances on eve-Tv and eonö. Private Tv and a magazine about fantasy role playing needs real names, really? Seriously, why do we really need to know who they are in real life? ItÆs obvious why CCP needs to know, but why us? Is it because of game integrity, transparency and accountability? I have a few thoughts regarding this but I can only speculate. Does anyone know the real reason (or reasons) why? Thank you, Ivan We're voting for the player, not the character.
Charney deGeoff Caldari New Tibet	Posted - 2008.05.17 19:51:00 - [17] Originally by: Adonis 4174 Originally by: Charney deGeoff Edited by: Charney deGeoff on 17/05/2008 19:38:24 Originally by: Fredior Khan'Sebies I know if I ran and was elected, I'd be putting this down on my resume somehow. Really? And by your resume you mean your real life resume you send to potential employers etc? I'm just curious, why? What do you think that would gain you? Customer support experience, experience of QC in the computer games industry, other stuff I can't be bothered wording right. You'd need to think carefully about whether it's relevant to the job you're applying for and how to word it if it is but it has potential. Hmm, I guess that could fly in some cases and I agree on the careful/relevant bits. I've been around MMO's since early MUD days (both as a player, dev and community rep) and I've sometimes been tempted to mention some of it in my resume(when applying to jobs outside gaming industry, that is), but it's really hard to make it "stick" for real. That's why I asked. Anyway, sorry for hijacking the thread :-)
Faife Noctiscion Twilight Trade Cartel	Posted - 2008.05.17 20:03:00 - [18] Originally by: Kyra Felann We're voting for the player, not the character. Ding!
Fredior Khan'Sebies Minmatar Mikramurka Solace	Posted - 2008.05.17 20:13:00 - [19] Originally by: Charney deGeoff Edited by: Charney deGeoff on 17/05/2008 19:38:24 Originally by: Fredior Khan'Sebies I know if I ran and was elected, I'd be putting this down on my resume somehow. Really? And by your resume you mean your real life resume you send to potential employers etc? I'm just curious, why? What do you think that would gain you? And to actually say something relevant. Did you candidates have to agree to the publishing of your personal details, or was that surprise to you? It depends on the job, really. But I am looking at trying to get into dispute resolution, possibly community relations, and working in very diverse environments. The last assembly plant I worked in was Swedish-owned, ran originally by a South African ex-pat who fled the collapse of Apartheid, with a workforce that was over 90% minority with people from 5 continents and so many countries and tribal/ethnic affiliations I couldn't keep track. In, I might add, Indianapolis, Indiana. This was while Eve was in beta. What I learned there helped me here, and vice versa. It's just a fantasy, really, both the job and getting to put "CSM" down on a resume, I would have to actually declare candidacy which I didn't do because I don't have a passport at this time and can't justify the cost while I am job hunting. But believe me, I would find a way to work it in there if I was applying for a position that needed this kind of experience. I am very proud of my experiences here because it has enabled me to just sit and talk with others from other countries who don't have a political or commercial agenda and listen to them and how they view me as an American, and how to relate back to them in a constructive, positive way and work with them as equals in a team based environment. That is NOT something that is taught in any class I took at the university. But becoming CSM would, for me, show success in that, the ability to create true empathy and build a base of support within such a widely diverse and cynical community. It is quantifiable in a way that a lot of my life experiences are not. Now if you'll excuse me I just talked myself into applying for a passport for later.
The Socialworker Native Freshfood	Posted - 2008.05.17 21:59:00 - [20] Originally by: Ashley Sky I'm fairly puzzled myself. My thoughts are that it is just another carrot on a stick ploy. I think you mean Churchills famous 'sausage on a stick ploy' used at Galipolee in the first world war. The 'carrot on a stick' ploy is just tinfoil hat nonsense origiionating from 'wachy racers'.
Serenity Steele Dynamic Data Distribution Ministry of Information	Posted - 2008.05.17 22:41:00 - [21] It'd suggest it's 1 part pragmatic (Ensure passport etc), as mentioned by Jade Constantine, and second part, about the OP's comment on Transparency. At the end of the day it was entirely possible for CCP to obtain the RL information, without exposing it to the player base. However if CCP are to tranparently enforce a max. 2 terms for candidacy, and players can run under their various alts, then the RL names need to be known to the community, so a player running twice under different alts will be seen by the community to be running twice. ≡v≡ Strategic Maps now in Eve-Online Store
Ivan Sable The One Upsmanship Club	Posted - 2008.05.17 22:44:00 - [22] Originally by: Kyra Felann We're voting for the player, not the character. Yes, but how does exposing his or her real identity to the public change who becomes a CSM or not? This is a game, not the Employment Agency or a branch of Real Government. it's entertainment that's fantasy based. Like, not real; so why expose the real identities?
Tatsu Tahime	Posted - 2008.05.17 22:52:00 - [23] Originally by: Ivan Sable Yes, but how does exposing his or her real identity to the public change who becomes a CSM or not? This is a game, not the Employment Agency or a branch of Real Government. it's entertainment that's fantasy based. Like, not real; so why expose the real identities? While the base assumption of EVE being a game and purely entertainment based is true, past events and the reactions of the player base at large have proven that many people who play this game see it as something much more serious. Which is why running for CSM is a serious matter. And asking someone to reveal their RL identity underscores the seriousness of the application. If you are not prepared to reveal yourself, don't run. Otherwise accept the responsibilities of office and stand by them as a real person, not a virtual personality.
Blacq Reign Minmatar	Posted - 2008.05.17 23:05:00 - [24] Edited by: Blacq Reign on 17/05/2008 23:06:10 Edited by: Blacq Reign on 17/05/2008 23:05:51 Originally by: Fredior Khan'Sebies Originally by: Charney deGeoff Edited by: Charney deGeoff on 17/05/2008 19:38:24 Originally by: Fredior Khan'Sebies I know if I ran and was elected, I'd be putting this down on my resume somehow. Really? And by your resume you mean your real life resume you send to potential employers etc? I'm just curious, why? What do you think that would gain you? And to actually say something relevant. Did you candidates have to agree to the publishing of your personal details, or was that surprise to you? It depends on the job, really. But I am looking at trying to get into dispute resolution, possibly community relations, and working in very diverse environments. The last assembly plant I worked in was Swedish-owned, ran originally by a South African ex-pat who fled the collapse of Apartheid, with a workforce that was over 90% minority with people from 5 continents and so many countries and tribal/ethnic affiliations I couldn't keep track. In, I might add, Indianapolis, Indiana. This was while Eve was in beta. What I learned there helped me here, and vice versa. It's just a fantasy, really, both the job and getting to put "CSM" down on a resume, I would have to actually declare candidacy which I didn't do because I don't have a passport at this time and can't justify the cost while I am job hunting. But believe me, I would find a way to work it in there if I was applying for a position that needed this kind of experience. I am very proud of my experiences here because it has enabled me to just sit and talk with others from other countries who don't have a political or commercial agenda and listen to them and how they view me as an American, and how to relate back to them in a constructive, positive way and work with them as equals in a team based environment. That is NOT something that is taught in any class I took at the university. But becoming CSM would, for me, show success in that, the ability to create true empathy and build a base of support within such a widely diverse and cynical community. It is quantifiable in a way that a lot of my life experiences are not. Now if you'll excuse me I just talked myself into applying for a passport for later. Only thing is, as popular as eve is, it's not popular enough for instant recognition on a resume. To most people, it would be akin to putting down your 70 WOW shammy as experience. Not even most of the people who PLAY eve get how truly complex this gameworld is, and the skills necessary to succeed in it.
Bentula	Posted - 2008.05.18 23:29:00 - [25] Originally by: Blacq Reign Only thing is, as popular as eve is, it's not popular enough for instant recognition on a resume. To most people, it would be akin to putting down your 70 WOW shammy as experience. Not even most of the people who PLAY eve get how truly complex this gameworld is, and the skills necessary to succeed in it. Anything that gets you free intercontinental flights is worth mentioning, especially if it involves voluntary public service and elections. And with over 200k subscriptions eve is rapidly approaching the population of iceland, so it is by no means a small thing to get voted into a council there. Add some fancy words like that you where part of a "supervisory board for gamedevelopment and community relations" and it sounds pretty awesome tbh. Its also pretty obvious why people have to run under their real names instead of their char names. Just imagine our RL politicians could just change their face and name after they screw up and attempt to get a new mandate, not so hot eh? Also like someone else mentioned we are voting for the players not the chars. There is also the effect the loss of anonymity will have both on who applys and how those that do apply behave. Lets just say there is very good reason why anonymity and politics dont go hand in hand .
Constance Harme	Posted - 2008.05.18 23:41:00 - [26] Edited by: Constance Harme on 18/05/2008 23:42:48 Originally by: Ivan Sable Yes, but how does exposing his or her real identity to the public change who becomes a CSM or not? This is a game, not the Employment Agency or a branch of Real Government. it's entertainment that's fantasy based. Like, not real; so why expose the real identities? Why are you so fussed about it? The candidates are well aware that they need to offer their details to be elected for the CSM, and they're old enough and brave enough to voice their opinions if they have any problems with CCP's methods (At least I hope they are otherwise the whole things for nothing) so I dont think they need you to fight their battles for them.
Mr Friendly	Posted - 2008.05.19 00:02:00 - [27] Knowing their names didn't help me at all, tbh. In fact, it distracted me since I don't know any of the candidates in RL; rather, I know them by their forum/game personas. I wouldn't be comfortable giving out my real name to potentially tens of thousands of people I don't know, so I sympathize with candidates desire for privacy. CSMs are not running for public office after all... they're running for unpaid nerd-gasmic vacation positions. The only reason I can slightly agree with is so that everyone can verify that Joe Blow isn't running a third time under an alt, but I'd be happy to take CCPs word on that issue. I don't need to know RL names. I suggest the successful CSMs suggest to CCP that names be kept internal during subsequent elections. Originally by: CCP Prism X Also, posting in a Jenny thread.
Marisal	Posted - 2008.05.19 00:19:00 - [28] Frankly every time i read anything about the CSM im very sceptical about the entire thing, one I don't feel that its gonna be democratic because peoples votes are gonna be bought, and enforced not to mention alt voting. The mental maturity of the gaming community as a whole is rather low in eve its above the average but still it has those negative elements that will probably lead to someone conducting a smear campaign the second a CSM doesn't agree with them or the group they're part of, or does something to the detriment of that group, putting real names out there is just going to make the smear campaign venture over into the possibility of illegal harassment.
ShardowRhino Caldari Legion 0f The Damned	Posted - 2008.05.19 01:49:00 - [29] Originally by: Ivan Sable Originally by: Akita T You pretty much answered your own questions Speculate isn't too big a word for you is it? "I can only speculate" Why would the player base KNOW? They aren't CCP employees and if they were they would do 1 of 2 things. 1.STFU and not say because CCP hasnt authorized them to or 2.Official dev blog detailing why. So the idea that you can only speculate where you are just another player means that others will also just speculate.
Blood Daemon Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.05.19 02:23:00 - [30] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton I would much rather be quoted as chainsaw plankton than by my real name damn, and here's me thinking that Chainsaw Plankton was your real name ------------------ SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.05.19 02:36:00 - [31] Originally by: Blood Daemon Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton I would much rather be quoted as chainsaw plankton than by my real name damn, and here's me thinking that Chainsaw Plankton was your real name well i could change it
Thorradin State War Academy	Posted - 2008.05.19 02:58:00 - [32] Originally by: Ivan Sable Originally by: Kyra Felann We're voting for the player, not the character. Yes, but how does exposing his or her real identity to the public change who becomes a CSM or not? This is a game, not the Employment Agency or a branch of Real Government. it's entertainment that's fantasy based. Like, not real; so why expose the real identities? Because you're not voting for 'Hardin' or 'Jade Constantine' or 'Gourdmanhog' or whatever the characters are named, you're voting for the person that plays them.
Atomos Darksun Infortunatus Eventus	Posted - 2008.05.19 03:04:00 - [33] to humiliate them so that the general masses can look up their myspace/facebook page and see how fat they are? Originally by: Amoxin My vent is talking to me in a devil voice... Atomos' Guide to Forum Flaming
Meat Hook Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.05.19 03:21:00 - [34] I guess as this is basically a prize competition the real names of the ppl who win are to validate said competition winners. Am i the only one that remembers why this whole Council of Stellar Muppets thing started? The whole thing is a fiasco based upon the T2 incident. As time has progressed though this event has been hyped up and now i guess CCP are also using this as a promotional and marketing tool for EVE. Personally i think it's funny that the candidates are going to do something special when they are probably nothing more than pawns in CCPs damage control and marketing campaign. I guess at the end of the day it's win win for all those involved...CCP looks good in the media and the winners get an awesome prize. Well, here's to your free holiday o/Y cheers!
Kern Hotha Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.19 03:57:00 - [35] Originally by: Meat Hook I guess as this is basically a prize competition the real names of the ppl who win are to validate said competition winners. Am i the only one that remembers why this whole Council of Stellar Muppets thing started? The whole thing is a fiasco based upon the T2 incident. As time has progressed though this event has been hyped up and now i guess CCP are also using this as a promotional and marketing tool for EVE. Personally i think it's funny that the candidates are going to do something special when they are probably nothing more than pawns in CCPs damage control and marketing campaign. I guess at the end of the day it's win win for all those involved...CCP looks good in the media and the winners get an awesome prize. Well, here's to your free holiday o/Y cheers! Quoting this. I guess the CSM is supposed to stop CCP from its own corrupt employees cheating in the game again. In other words, entirely worthless propaganda to drive sales. Needless to say, I voted to show my support. Quote: In religion and politics, people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination. Mark Twain
Hennry Fromer radiated space gerbils Shadow Donkeys	Posted - 2008.05.19 04:01:00 - [36] Originally by: Ivan Sable The brochure gives the reason ô because election winners will ultimately make appearances on eve-Tv and eonö. Private Tv and a magazine about fantasy role playing needs real names, really? Seriously, why do we really need to know who they are in real life? ItÆs obvious why CCP needs to know, but why us? Is it because of game integrity, transparency and accountability? I have a few thoughts regarding this but I can only speculate. Does anyone know the real reason (or reasons) why? Thank you, Ivan It's very simple if you consider 3 things, 1) You have to sign an NDA with your real name so it will come out there if not before. 2) They are receiving a tangible taxable benefit (and the company gets a deduction ) that has to be tied to a National ID and properly reported. 3) When they become representatives of ccp they may be contacted by external sources and abide by any codes of conduct in place that can only be enforced if they use a legal name.
Ivan Sable The One Upsmanship Club	Posted - 2008.05.19 04:20:00 - [37] Edited by: Ivan Sable on 19/05/2008 04:21:35 This has been a great discussion, I appreciate those who gave input and stayed on topic. Now it's my turn to share. One one hand it seems like this is an attempt to re-build a trusting relationship with the Eve community while simultaneously preserving the things that keep shattering it. To this day, CCP employees playing this game along side us have raised many doubts and suspicions, yet they still don't wear a company name tag in-game. So, the powerless CSM candidates are duped into revealing their real identity for the sake of what seems to be CCP game character anonymity. The motive seems selfish, and only a select few will actually get picked. At any rate, this place is like a casino, there's much to lose and much to invest, yet you don't see successful casinos letting employees play. The reasons are obvious. On another hand, this whole thing is just plain stupid to reveal a real life identity in a game full wackos who gleefully bask in others pain. Myself and others I know have received real life threats; now add a face, name and address to that equation. See man, it's just plain stupid. We have a forum for our voices, this is mine. Ofc, I am only speculating from the information I have available and sharing how I feel. I'm still interested in hearing some REAL reasons why we're stripping these players to the tighty whities.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.05.19 04:26:00 - [38] Originally by: Meat Hook I guess as this is basically a prize competition the real names of the ppl who win are to validate said competition winners. Am i the only one that remembers why this whole Council of Stellar Muppets thing started? The whole thing is a fiasco based upon the T2 incident. As time has progressed though this event has been hyped up and now i guess CCP are also using this as a promotional and marketing tool for EVE. Personally i think it's funny that the candidates are going to do something special when they are probably nothing more than pawns in CCPs damage control and marketing campaign. I guess at the end of the day it's win win for all those involved...CCP looks good in the media and the winners get an awesome prize. Well, here's to your free holiday o/Y cheers! free trip to Iceland = win for all involved
Komen Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.19 05:41:00 - [39] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton I would much rather be quoted as chainsaw plankton than by my real name I wish I had a name as awesome as 'Chainsaw Plankton'. Maybe 'Butcher Knife Shrimp'. Hmmm.... Trinity Nova Mercenary Services Web Site - Nominated for the 2008 E-ON Magazine Awards
Ashley Sky The Eleventh Commandment Dystopia Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.19 18:27:00 - [40] Originally by: Ivan Sable One one hand it seems like this is an attempt to re-build a trusting relationship with the Eve community while simultaneously preserving the things that keep shattering it. To this day, CCP employees playing this game along side us have raised many doubts and suspicions, yet they still don't wear a company name tag in-game. Hypocrisy is one of the most common themes among people in power. They make the rules but they don't have to follow them. Though we like to think we're working with a reputable game company, I would say that history shows some of them are honest, while others are not, and unless the honest people are impacted by the dealings of the dishonest, the corruption will go largely unnoticed. Welcome to politics... That said... If I was CCP, I'd take a hard look at GM's characters who play the game and have interesting items like say, a Mackinaw BPO, or other items that would sway the balance in their favor, even if they claim to have obtained them by legit means... you know better. Do the community a favor, and recirculate said items back to real players. Insider trading is unethical.
Something Random Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2008.05.19 18:40:00 - [41] Maybe it was to avoid the forum filling up with "Name the players who will be in the CSM or we think your lying to us!!!!" sort of things, you know that happen here. No-one foresaw this one though i guess.....

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