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Tyrunedeth
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Posted - 2008.05.17 18:58:00 -
[1]
Nowadays the tacklers are BAD because most of the time if you need a tackler you need it to web the target too... and to do that he must give up its defence: Speed; just because he will get webbed back and shot at.
That's why inties are no good in a even match up (similar sized gangs) to tackle Vagas and Nanos: it's suicidal to get there. The heavy neut Issue is similar albeit less deadly.
So why don't give a Hyena like bonus to all small ships, or better: implement this as game mechanic where the smaller you are the better your tackling abilities gets ?
The game is not balanced atm beacuse a well rounded team of specialized (in different roles) ships will fall prey to a pure nano gang unless its loaded heavily with webs/neuts.
Speed is fun and expensive to pull off so let it be, but give the tacklers the stuff to tackle ! The essential problem with nano ships is not their dps, not their uber tank... it's the fact that they are so difficult to tackle.
The tackling dedicated ships must be ABLE to do that without fearing anything but ANTISUPPORT vessels.
If tacklers would be much more powerful in what they are supposed to do, antisupport ship will become more sought at ( MOA, EAGLES and so on... ).
The NOS step was a good one... now please finish the work: extend the bonus tackling inties get to warp disruption to webs ( i mean > 24 km webs ).
P.S. : and find a new role for minnies recon.
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Velox Idolon
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Posted - 2008.05.17 19:19:00 -
[2]
make web signature radius based (or mass) and then make minmatar recons get a role bonus to decrease/nullify the decreased effect on smaller/lower mass ships ?
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Alrich
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Posted - 2008.05.17 20:14:00 -
[3]
how come you think something is wrong when a gang designed to counter standard gangs kick their ass?
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Kano Sekor
Amarr
modro
CORPVS DELICTI
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Posted - 2008.05.17 20:26:00 -
[4]
In youre world where tacklers can survive webber fitted larger ships how should larger ships handle tacklers?
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Bayroo
Gallente
Shadow Reapers
Moral Decay.
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Posted - 2008.05.17 21:56:00 -
[5]
bring support ??
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Maeltstome
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.05.17 22:06:00 -
[6]
this is the old argument of: one fit to counter everything.
Bring a single huginn (which is a GOOD ship in gang regardless) and stick a few remote reps on it. nano-gang now can't get close enough to kill you or even take out the huginn, you win or they run.
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[12:07] w33Daz: a trained 1 skill fur 24 mins n it took 2 days aff drones lvl 5
[12:07] w33Daz: A WIS LIKE WTF |
Tyrunedeth
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Posted - 2008.05.18 04:39:00 -
[7]
this is not JUST about nanoships and tackling.
This is about tackling in general: if a ship designed for one single role can't handle that single role without being suicidal something is not working, ESPECIALLY if it's a really important one like tackling.
Tackling is a core duty in this game: there should be some ships HARDER to tackle but not almost impossible to tackle ( to really tackle a nano you need both a rapier/huginn and a gallente recon ship, to DEFEND against a nano MAYBE you just need a rapier/huginn ).
No ship excpet STEALTHERS should be almost untackable from interceptors designed just for that.
I would just like to see a BALANCED, well piloted GANG to be able to defend AND attack another gang... and the well balanced, well played one SHOULD WIN. Nowadays even a Battleship can be a problem to tackle because of heavy neuts, drones, flying back to a gate etcetera.
Make interceptors able to TACKLE (not DPS) from range and a lot of problems will be solved... oh and make ASSAULT FRIGATES ANTI CEPTORS BOATS (long range, insane tracking/explosion velocity) and suddendly a BUNCH of stuff in this game will be FIXED.
Disruptor and Web from 30 kms FTW !!!
Just back from a nastz night ouz... totallz drunk and hope to make sense!
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Joe Starbreaker
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Posted - 2008.05.18 05:00:00 -
[8]
No.
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[insert signature here] |
Tyrunedeth
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Posted - 2008.05.18 05:37:00 -
[9]
nice argument there.
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Caligulus
Legion of Lost Souls
Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.05.18 05:55:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Caligulus on 18/05/2008 05:55:46
Edited by: Caligulus on 18/05/2008 05:55:38
Remove inertia on webbed ships would be a great start. it's crap tackular when a webbed nanoship can "coast" out of web range in a couple seconds and return to being a 4 year old on c-rack. WTF? The word filter edits out c-rack?
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**** You're out of your mind!
**** Well that's between me and my mind. |
Tyrunedeth
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Posted - 2008.05.18 12:58:00 -
[11]
It's not just about NANOS... it's about tackling.
The dedicated Tackling ships should be able to play their role against every ship that is not specifically built to be difficult to tackled (other ceptors,bombers, cov ops).
This is not the case: smartbombs, neuts, nanoed cruiser... the tackling role of ceptors are GREATLY outdone by other ships atm... nanocruisers are better for tackling eachother and this is not right.
Increasing at the same time the web range for said ceptors would give them their role back: of course there should be ships wich are more difficult to tackle but this should be only the one specifically designed for this.
The lacking of REALLY EFFECTIVE tackling ceptor puts lots of anti support ship a step back since many times they lack their true targets.
Buff the tackling ceptors and buff the anti support vessels to be able to hurt them.
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Cautet
Precision Engineering
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.18 15:22:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Cautet on 18/05/2008 15:26:47
OP: You should have let the thread die rather than posting a bump.
Intys have one main role: tackling, and secondary role: webbing (some not all) tertiary role bumping.
You can tackle from outside web range, you just can't web or bump. To web in an inty, or to bump takes a level of risk.
Edit: If you want greater web range fit a faction webifier.
1. Some nano ships are anti-support ships, so yes they take down intys.
2 Many nano ships do not have webs - in fact the majority do not.
3. Risk free pvp is completely dull. Intys are already damm fast, the tradeoff is that they die easily. The change suggested is a. not needed and b. would make intys the most powerfull class of ships in the game sub-cap.
Currently a well balanced gang does beat an unblanced gang so cant understand point.
If you want a frig with web bonus faction web or hyena is available to you. There really is no problem, maybe you just need to adapt to how things are.
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Tyrunedeth
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Posted - 2008.05.18 18:28:00 -
[13]
Just having a discussion here: the point here is that today tackling often means BOTH webbing and disrupting.
I see your points are valid. But as speed gets more and more powerful the importance of a ship being slowed down is getting near to the importance of webbing it down.
For warp disrupting we have a whole dedicated class (ceptors) + other ships and methods (gal recons, bubbles, HICs)
For webbing we have... 3 dedicated ships, all of the same race (+1 faction cruisers).
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Boz Well
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Posted - 2008.05.18 18:35:00 -
[14]
 Originally by: Caligulus
Edited by: Caligulus on 18/05/2008 05:55:46
Edited by: Caligulus on 18/05/2008 05:55:38
Remove inertia on webbed ships would be a great start. it's crap tackular when a webbed nanoship can "coast" out of web range in a couple seconds and return to being a 4 year old on c-rack. WTF? The word filter edits out c-rack?
Drugs are bad, mmkay?
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Drinian Cole
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Posted - 2008.05.18 20:22:00 -
[15]
but there are already ships dedicated to this role. I don't see what is gained by stealing their role and giving it to interceptors. Seems like CCP has designed it so that webbing & tackling are seperate roles handled by seperate ships.
If you give inties web bonus', what are you gonna give minni eas/recon? its not like target painters are an exceptional EW, can't really fall back on those...
inties already stole some of the thunder from gallente recons, they don't need to steel it from minnie ones as well.
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Tyrunedeth
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Posted - 2008.05.18 23:24:00 -
[16]
Wanting basically two ships to really tackle one could be a choice. I respect that if that's what CCP wants.
But as the importance of webbing gets nearer and nearer to the importance of disrupting and for the first we have three ships while for other we have... 4 ceptors, 4 dictors, 4 hictors and much better range and options from the base modules we can see how speed is the "it will be a hell to tackle me" solution... and it is.
Even tackling a battleship could be suicidal near gates: if you really want to force the engament you have either to web or to bump and all the tacklers, except maybe the hictors, can't do that without basically suiciding IF the BS is smart and has a WEB OR NEUTS OR SMARTIES fitted.
Yea: i already said it. If this is implemented (lol don't really think that) Minnie Recon would need a new EW bonus... maybe Painters should not only increase signature radius but also lower resistances? (use scripts for deciding wich resistance to lower).
This is just a random idea.
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Ralara
Caldari
D00M.
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Posted - 2008.05.18 23:58:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Tyrunedeth
Nowadays the tacklers are BAD because most of the time if you need a tackler you need it to web the target too... and to do that he must give up its defence: Speed; just because he will get webbed back and shot at.
That's why inties are no good in a even match up (similar sized gangs) to tackle Vagas and Nanos: it's suicidal to get there. The heavy neut Issue is similar albeit less deadly.
So why don't give a Hyena like bonus to all small ships, or better: implement this as game mechanic where the smaller you are the better your tackling abilities gets ?
The game is not balanced atm beacuse a well rounded team of specialized (in different roles) ships will fall prey to a pure nano gang unless its loaded heavily with webs/neuts.
Speed is fun and expensive to pull off so let it be, but give the tacklers the stuff to tackle ! The essential problem with nano ships is not their dps, not their uber tank... it's the fact that they are so difficult to tackle.
The tackling dedicated ships must be ABLE to do that without fearing anything but ANTISUPPORT vessels.
If tacklers would be much more powerful in what they are supposed to do, antisupport ship will become more sought at ( MOA, EAGLES and so on... ).
The NOS step was a good one... now please finish the work: extend the bonus tackling inties get to warp disruption to webs ( i mean > 24 km webs ).
P.S. : and find a new role for minnies recon.
so use a raptor or an ares or malediction etc... the ones with the bonus to warp disruptor range...
--
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Rastigan
Caldari
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.19 00:08:00 -
[18]
Not that people would do it because :effort: , but a Scimitar/Basilisk with 2 Large Shield transporters could probably keep a tackling T2 frig alive vs a nanoship indefinately..
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Tyrunedeth
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Posted - 2008.05.19 06:14:00 -
[19]
now... THAT's nice info. Thx; always nice to learn something.
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