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![Killerhound Killerhound](https://images.evetech.net/characters/350799554/portrait?size=64)
Killerhound
Caldari Stardust Heavy Industries Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2008.05.17 23:34:00 -
[1]
Dear CCP, dear players,
in the light of all this new an shiny content that is being added, I was still very curious and actually it's the most important point for me, what are you guys at CCP going to implement at next patch for the poor guys that have got a black op ship especially the Widow in may case.
Separat Fuel Bay ? Additional Technologies ? One of the ideas discussed ? Something brand new?
Well as many of us have bought this ship when it came out and that are now very disapointed of its effective capabilities.
Thanks for any information...
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![Avoheja Avoheja](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1811517593/portrait?size=64)
Avoheja
Caldari The Venture Co.
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Posted - 2008.05.17 23:51:00 -
[2]
Panther r secks macheen.
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![Vaal Erit Vaal Erit](https://images.evetech.net/characters/720103982/portrait?size=64)
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.05.17 23:59:00 -
[3]
Back Ops suck. Kind of like how AFs suck. Do not hold your breath for a fix.
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![Amastat Amastat](https://images.evetech.net/characters/975523299/portrait?size=64)
Amastat
Caldari Omegatech
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Posted - 2008.05.18 00:01:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Vaal Erit Back Ops suck. Kind of like how AFs suck. Do not hold your breath for a fix.
Last I heard about AF's CCP was well aware of how much they suck and were going to fix it, lol. ____________________
"All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu, the |
![Vaal Erit Vaal Erit](https://images.evetech.net/characters/720103982/portrait?size=64)
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.05.18 00:04:00 -
[5]
Yes and how long have AFs been out before CCP have aknowledged that they need a fix? As I said, don't hold your breath.
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![Lord WarATron Lord WarATron](https://images.evetech.net/characters/659477430/portrait?size=64)
Lord WarATron
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.05.18 00:04:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 18/05/2008 00:04:46 The whole Black ops concept is obsolete intodays pvp.
Yeah you set a trap, fire a cyno and portal your recons though. Big deal since the enemy will nano away since you cannot portal dictors.
"Ah but you can jumpdrive a bunch of Redeemers to the cyno and gank!!". Till you relise you would be better off jumpdriveing carriers who have more range, more damage and can actually fit a tank. Then you relise that Fitting a redeemer is like fitting a omen.... With Heavy Beams.
I think CCP really needs to tell us what role they want these ships to use. If its for sneaking past gatecamps, well, you need to get a recon past in the first place to setup a cyno so it defeats the point. Better off nanoing past.
But wait, your enemy can simply bridge in front so its not exactly that special anymore. Like I said, I think this whole class needs a rethink since the type of role it could be used for no longer exists in todays pvp. --
Billion Isk Mission |
![Lord Evangelian Lord Evangelian](https://images.evetech.net/characters/248172196/portrait?size=64)
Lord Evangelian
Gallente The White Mantle
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Posted - 2008.05.18 00:15:00 -
[7]
I love the black ops BS...I use it for Solo PVP and sneaking around. I have my alt warp in in a Covert Helios and create the cyno, then I jump through... Luanch a few probes scan the system... find a target, then warp te sin in...
I just wish I could warp cloaked, as then I would just apear in the belt....
BOBS are good at taking out ships that are smaller than BS, if it is a BS you need more Power....
I think it fits my role perfectly... --------------------
The White Mantle |
![Amastat Amastat](https://images.evetech.net/characters/975523299/portrait?size=64)
Amastat
Caldari Omegatech
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Posted - 2008.05.18 00:16:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 18/05/2008 00:04:46 The whole Black ops concept is obsolete intodays pvp.
Yeah you set a trap, fire a cyno and portal your recons though. Big deal since the enemy will nano away since you cannot portal dictors.
"Ah but you can jumpdrive a bunch of Redeemers to the cyno and gank!!". Till you relise you would be better off jumpdriveing carriers who have more range, more damage and can actually fit a tank. Then you relise that Fitting a redeemer is like fitting a omen.... With Heavy Beams.
I think CCP really needs to tell us what role they want these ships to use. If its for sneaking past gatecamps, well, you need to get a recon past in the first place to setup a cyno so it defeats the point. Better off nanoing past.
But wait, your enemy can simply bridge in front so its not exactly that special anymore. Like I said, I think this whole class needs a rethink since the type of role it could be used for no longer exists in todays pvp.
Yea, at this point they are super specialized - and haven't really found their place quite yet. I think in theory Blackops could be a good gank ship - so long u have a cyno pilot to act as bait.
The Sin for example, thought I don't know if anyone has tried, could potentially be made into a large Ishtar. You can get it to go at 2500-3000m/s or higher - and it turns on a dime. It can actually with proper skills acquire speed in less than than a Ishtar can. The hp is also superior to a Ishtar, but it's resistances aren't as great. It also has much better slots, you should be able to with great ease deck the thing out with nos's on it's 7 highs, and it has the ability to cloak and escape a bad situation if need be, and jump out.
Only issue is the Sin can't lock nearly as fast, and couldn't go nearly as fast as the Ishtar with equal skills/fit could go.
Well - thats the thoery at least, havn't seen anyone try it yet.
The Widow seems pretty powerful too, basically the Manticores big poppa, but also with a ECM array on it, and a jump drive. I think these are probably the most popular Blackops atm however I havn't really seen them used before yet. ____________________
"All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu, the |
![Lord Evangelian Lord Evangelian](https://images.evetech.net/characters/248172196/portrait?size=64)
Lord Evangelian
Gallente The White Mantle
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Posted - 2008.05.18 00:18:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Amastat
Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 18/05/2008 00:04:46 The whole Black ops concept is obsolete intodays pvp.
Yeah you set a trap, fire a cyno and portal your recons though. Big deal since the enemy will nano away since you cannot portal dictors.
"Ah but you can jumpdrive a bunch of Redeemers to the cyno and gank!!". Till you relise you would be better off jumpdriveing carriers who have more range, more damage and can actually fit a tank. Then you relise that Fitting a redeemer is like fitting a omen.... With Heavy Beams.
I think CCP really needs to tell us what role they want these ships to use. If its for sneaking past gatecamps, well, you need to get a recon past in the first place to setup a cyno so it defeats the point. Better off nanoing past.
But wait, your enemy can simply bridge in front so its not exactly that special anymore. Like I said, I think this whole class needs a rethink since the type of role it could be used for no longer exists in todays pvp.
Yea, at this point they are super specialized - and haven't really found their place quite yet. I think in theory Blackops could be a good gank ship - so long u have a cyno pilot to act as bait.
The Sin for example, thought I don't know if anyone has tried, could potentially be made into a large Ishtar. You can get it to go at 2500-3000m/s or higher - and it turns on a dime. It can actually with proper skills acquire speed in less than than a Ishtar can. The hp is also superior to a Ishtar, but it's resistances aren't as great. It also has much better slots, you should be able to with great ease deck the thing out with nos's on it's 7 highs, and it has the ability to cloak and escape a bad situation if need be, and jump out.
Only issue is the Sin can't lock nearly as fast, and couldn't go nearly as fast as the Ishtar with equal skills/fit could go.
Well - thats the thoery at least, havn't seen anyone try it yet.
The Widow seems pretty powerful too, basically the Manticores big poppa, but also with a ECM array on it, and a jump drive. I think these are probably the most popular Blackops atm however I havn't really seen them used before yet.
This is my point...
I use mine like a NOS/Neut DOmi with droneage.. --------------------
The White Mantle |
![Amastat Amastat](https://images.evetech.net/characters/975523299/portrait?size=64)
Amastat
Caldari Omegatech
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Posted - 2008.05.18 00:20:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Lord Evangelian
Originally by: Amastat
Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 18/05/2008 00:04:46 The whole Black ops concept is obsolete intodays pvp.
Yeah you set a trap, fire a cyno and portal your recons though. Big deal since the enemy will nano away since you cannot portal dictors.
"Ah but you can jumpdrive a bunch of Redeemers to the cyno and gank!!". Till you relise you would be better off jumpdriveing carriers who have more range, more damage and can actually fit a tank. Then you relise that Fitting a redeemer is like fitting a omen.... With Heavy Beams.
I think CCP really needs to tell us what role they want these ships to use. If its for sneaking past gatecamps, well, you need to get a recon past in the first place to setup a cyno so it defeats the point. Better off nanoing past.
But wait, your enemy can simply bridge in front so its not exactly that special anymore. Like I said, I think this whole class needs a rethink since the type of role it could be used for no longer exists in todays pvp.
Yea, at this point they are super specialized - and haven't really found their place quite yet. I think in theory Blackops could be a good gank ship - so long u have a cyno pilot to act as bait.
The Sin for example, thought I don't know if anyone has tried, could potentially be made into a large Ishtar. You can get it to go at 2500-3000m/s or higher - and it turns on a dime. It can actually with proper skills acquire speed in less than than a Ishtar can. The hp is also superior to a Ishtar, but it's resistances aren't as great. It also has much better slots, you should be able to with great ease deck the thing out with nos's on it's 7 highs, and it has the ability to cloak and escape a bad situation if need be, and jump out.
Only issue is the Sin can't lock nearly as fast, and couldn't go nearly as fast as the Ishtar with equal skills/fit could go.
Well - thats the thoery at least, havn't seen anyone try it yet.
The Widow seems pretty powerful too, basically the Manticores big poppa, but also with a ECM array on it, and a jump drive. I think these are probably the most popular Blackops atm however I havn't really seen them used before yet.
This is my point...
I use mine like a NOS/Neut DOmi with droneage..
That sounds very sexy. Are you in game? If so, message me - I have a friend who is getting a Sin and he was interested in that fit; we've been trying to find someone who has used it before. ____________________
"All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu, the |
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![Sevan Rax Sevan Rax](https://images.evetech.net/characters/245216385/portrait?size=64)
Sevan Rax
Noob Mercs
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Posted - 2008.05.18 01:14:00 -
[11]
People have mentioned that the Black-Ops have come into the game "pre-nerfed" but I'm left with the rather uncomfortable feeling this is just wishful thinking and that CCP, will leave these ships to be a skill based time-sink for quite some time to come.
The main problem here, as I'm led to understand... is that they are unable to carry enough fuel for the job they are designed for and with a rather limited range.
Secondly, they are only capable of fitting at best, the ICD II that seems a bit of a cop-out. Which again flys in the face of it's 'supposed' intended role.
But then again, Recon ships in general are pretty much anything but. They are mostly relegated to being gang support entities, rather than the front line shock troops specialized in information superiority, which is what you might expect from a Recon, Covert Ops or Black Ops unit.
All that said, many things must be sacrificed to the game gods of balance and capability. So at least on my second point I can see the sense in the decision, balance wise, although I can't help but think it's a failure of creativity and/or ability.
The fix for these spectacular concepts in ship design, lies in the hands of CCP but I hope whatever they do... they do while I still have hair.
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![Viqtoria Viqtoria](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1305091429/portrait?size=64)
Viqtoria
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.05.18 01:27:00 -
[12]
yes i believe in racial equality in the police force.
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![Nova Fox Nova Fox](https://images.evetech.net/characters/656055035/portrait?size=64)
Nova Fox
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.18 01:31:00 -
[13]
Last i heard was that they are planning on no longer allowing jumps or friendly cynos in jammed systems regardless what provides it (ship or pos) and that they where going to let the covert jump portal be able to open up in jammed systems if they are going to extend what kind of ships allowed is uncertain.
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
![Beef Hardslab Beef Hardslab](https://images.evetech.net/characters/249177775/portrait?size=64)
Beef Hardslab
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2008.05.18 01:36:00 -
[14]
The only things I'd really like to see modified would be the seperate fuel bay, and, one that really confuses me, the lack of a reduction in the time in which you can decloak/recloak. WTF? Why there should be a breathalyzer to login to Eve:
Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Podding my own alt in a gatecamp while drunk, he was carrying a hauler full of tech II goods, Oops.
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![mama guru mama guru](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1238473646/portrait?size=64)
mama guru
Gallente Contraband Inc.
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Posted - 2008.05.18 01:38:00 -
[15]
Ofcourse you can nano the sin. But to do so costs alot of isk or you'll be a 2300m/s isk sink.
EVE is like the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMOs. If it's too hard, you are too weak. |
![Jason Edwards Jason Edwards](https://images.evetech.net/characters/773392121/portrait?size=64)
Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.05.18 01:40:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Sevan Rax People have mentioned that the Black-Ops have come into the game "pre-nerfed" but I'm left with the rather uncomfortable feeling this is just wishful thinking and that CCP, will leave these ships to be a skill based time-sink for quite some time to come.
No the devs have outright said they did this.
The boost is coming soon. I think they like the fuel bay idea. They have however commented that they dont want to make the fuelbay too large or else they may introduce a ship which actually is used as a fuel transport rather then using industrials or whatever.
I think they need to boost the target locking range a little bit. Such that without mods you can lock to about 85km with max skills. Which is what the base ship does. At least for basic ship.
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![Beef Hardslab Beef Hardslab](https://images.evetech.net/characters/249177775/portrait?size=64)
Beef Hardslab
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2008.05.18 01:46:00 -
[17]
Oh, also forgot to mention - a reduction in the scan res penalty for fitting a cloak would be nice. Why there should be a breathalyzer to login to Eve:
Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Podding my own alt in a gatecamp while drunk, he was carrying a hauler full of tech II goods, Oops.
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![Siberys Siberys](https://images.evetech.net/characters/331747644/portrait?size=64)
Siberys
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Posted - 2008.05.18 02:04:00 -
[18]
Get a maurauder and stop complaining about how much they suck.
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![MilowFV MilowFV](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1841240154/portrait?size=64)
MilowFV
Echo Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.05.18 02:06:00 -
[19]
I ve alway found it interesting when folks run multiply accounts and tell you how to solo. True your only one person, but using multiply accounts to achieve a goal in game isnt really solo game play if you ask me.
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![Liang Nuren Liang Nuren](https://images.evetech.net/characters/835925604/portrait?size=64)
Liang Nuren
Black Sea Industries Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.18 02:10:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Siberys Get a maurauder and stop complaining about how much they suck.
Yes, so you can die to my 5 light ECM drone Rupture. :)
-Liang -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved. |
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![Dal Thrax Dal Thrax](https://images.evetech.net/characters/661105297/portrait?size=64)
Dal Thrax
Multiverse Corporation Cosmic Anomalies
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Posted - 2008.05.18 02:20:00 -
[21]
The best use I've heard for a black ops is to jump bridge POS gunners into a system with a heavy gate camp. Of course you still need to get a covops for the cyno around the camp (either by logging it in system or sneaking through), which defeats some of the utility.
Originally by: HEXXX In all seriousness; I think I made a miscalculation originally. . . We either need to fix this or fix our advertising.
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![OffBeaT OffBeaT](https://images.evetech.net/characters/375927766/portrait?size=64)
OffBeaT
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Posted - 2008.05.18 02:31:00 -
[22]
man, what the hell good is a stealth bomber or black ops ship that cant stay cloaked coming through a gate.. i gota un-cloak too cloak. i am just pirate food doing that, they lock faster then i cloak. ![Rolling Eyes](/images/icon_rolleyes.gif) ![Rolling Eyes](/images/icon_rolleyes.gif) ![Rolling Eyes](/images/icon_rolleyes.gif)
feaken joke these ships..
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![Sidewayzracer Sidewayzracer](https://images.evetech.net/characters/806160114/portrait?size=64)
Sidewayzracer
Caldari Murder Training Facilites
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Posted - 2008.05.18 03:44:00 -
[23]
Originally by: OffBeaT man, what the hell good is a stealth bomber or black ops ship that cant stay cloaked coming through a gate.. i gota un-cloak too cloak. i am just pirate food doing that, they lock faster then i cloak. ![Rolling Eyes](/images/icon_rolleyes.gif) ![Rolling Eyes](/images/icon_rolleyes.gif) ![Rolling Eyes](/images/icon_rolleyes.gif)
feaken joke these ships..
Your doing it wronge......![Rolling Eyes](/images/icon_rolleyes.gif)
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![Carth Reynolds Carth Reynolds](https://images.evetech.net/characters/880310461/portrait?size=64)
Carth Reynolds
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Posted - 2008.05.18 04:24:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Carth Reynolds on 18/05/2008 04:24:19
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![Erotic Irony Erotic Irony](https://images.evetech.net/characters/281011440/portrait?size=64)
Erotic Irony
0bsession
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Posted - 2008.05.18 04:28:00 -
[25]
Blackops that shoot out AFs would be pretty neat. ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
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![Cuebick Cuebick](https://images.evetech.net/characters/918015180/portrait?size=64)
Cuebick
Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.05.18 04:33:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Viqtoria yes i believe in racial equality in the police force.
lol - |
![Caligulus Caligulus](https://images.evetech.net/characters/725352339/portrait?size=64)
Caligulus
Legion of Lost Souls Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.05.18 06:04:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Caligulus on 18/05/2008 06:04:32
Originally by: Amastat
Originally by: Vaal Erit Back Ops suck. Kind of like how AFs suck. Do not hold your breath for a fix.
Last I heard about AF's CCP was well aware of how much they suck and were going to fix it, lol.
I wonder if their spouses hear that same line...hmmm. ------------------------------------------------- **** You're out of your mind!
**** Well that's between me and my mind. |
![OffBeaT OffBeaT](https://images.evetech.net/characters/375927766/portrait?size=64)
OffBeaT
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Posted - 2008.05.18 06:35:00 -
[28]
Edited by: OffBeaT on 18/05/2008 06:36:36
Originally by: Sidewayzracer
Originally by: OffBeaT man, what the hell good is a stealth bomber or black ops ship that cant stay cloaked coming through a gate.. i gota un-cloak too cloak. i am just pirate food doing that, they lock faster then i cloak. ![Rolling Eyes](/images/icon_rolleyes.gif) ![Rolling Eyes](/images/icon_rolleyes.gif) ![Rolling Eyes](/images/icon_rolleyes.gif)
feaken joke these ships..
Your doing it wronge......![Rolling Eyes](/images/icon_rolleyes.gif)
realy! why dont you tell me how too do it right..
i jump through a gate with a stealth bomber look up 10 pirates now tell me what to do with 3 intersepters charging at me full out. re-cloak looking at a worp bubble.. ![Laughing](/images/icon_lol.gif) oh wait i can use a alt too jump through first right. oh wait! i can put some stabs on.. stabs on bubble camps dont seem too helpful..
oh wait, i dont realy need a steath bomber do i with alts too take all the risk for me..
we need stealth ships again for what i can do in evryday ships.. ![Confused](/images/icon_confused.gif)
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![Beef Hardslab Beef Hardslab](https://images.evetech.net/characters/249177775/portrait?size=64)
Beef Hardslab
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2008.05.18 07:13:00 -
[29]
Originally by: OffBeaT Edited by: OffBeaT on 18/05/2008 06:36:36
Originally by: Sidewayzracer
Originally by: OffBeaT man, what the hell good is a stealth bomber or black ops ship that cant stay cloaked coming through a gate.. i gota un-cloak too cloak. i am just pirate food doing that, they lock faster then i cloak. ![Rolling Eyes](/images/icon_rolleyes.gif) ![Rolling Eyes](/images/icon_rolleyes.gif) ![Rolling Eyes](/images/icon_rolleyes.gif)
feaken joke these ships..
Your doing it wronge......![Rolling Eyes](/images/icon_rolleyes.gif)
realy! why dont you tell me how too do it right..
i jump through a gate with a stealth bomber look up 10 pirates now tell me what to do with 3 intersepters charging at me full out. re-cloak looking at a worp bubble.. ![Laughing](/images/icon_lol.gif) oh wait i can use a alt too jump through first right. oh wait! i can put some stabs on.. stabs on bubble camps dont seem too helpful..
oh wait, i dont realy need a steath bomber do i with alts too take all the risk for me..
we need stealth ships again for what i can do in evryday ships.. ![Confused](/images/icon_confused.gif)
You jump in. You are gatecloaked. You see bad people on the gate. You pick somewhere to align to (preferably a safe), doubleclick towards it to align, and instantly hit your cloak. You appear for a fraction of a second. The inties fly towards you. By the time they get close enough to be a threat, you should have plenty of speed to decloak and instantly warp. Why there should be a breathalyzer to login to Eve:
Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Podding my own alt in a gatecamp while drunk, he was carrying a hauler full of tech II goods, Oops.
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![OffBeaT OffBeaT](https://images.evetech.net/characters/375927766/portrait?size=64)
OffBeaT
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Posted - 2008.05.18 08:23:00 -
[30]
Edited by: OffBeaT on 18/05/2008 08:23:51 you forgot the worp bubbles that seem to be at every choke point to 00 systems these days..
yea, your plan might work with a few ships on me but not with more then one intersepter charging at me. they are not that far from me..
i think ill stick with the boring alt jump and look since the ship im in cant seem too do its job right witch is inter a system unseen.. ![ugh](/images/icon_ugh.gif)
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